Ignorant, racist, HIV shaming white people exist in Africa, you know. This isn't a defence of her.
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Seriously, It's Not The Responsibility of Minorities to Educate or Coddle Racists.
- Thread starter Crossing Eden
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Ignorant, racist, HIV shaming white people exist in Africa, you know. This isn't a defence of her.
Professor Beef
Banned
Maybe on a meta level, that's why they say "be more like MLK."
Frozenprince
Banned
If all these things were true maybe she should have thought a little better about posting that knowing how it could and would maybe be perceived.
Megalosaro
Banned
Black people make up 12% of the population in this country. They're still fairly exotic.
Pretty much the only way to really combat racism is through prolonged exposure. Fuck more, drive up that percentage. AND spread out.
Pretty much the only way to really combat racism is through prolonged exposure. Fuck more, drive up that percentage. AND spread out.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
This doesn't matter at all. Our cities with a majority black population are our most racist and oppressive, and it's not from black people. There were multiple warrants for every household in Ferguson, and the Department of Justice just called it out for being a racist police force generating profit by guaranteeing prisoners.
I'm not really sure where to start with this thread. First, I agree with the OP 100%, but a lot of the responses from supposed well-meaning white allies were really troublesome to read. Even though they understand racism from an academic level, that aren't grasping that lived experience is completely different. Lived experience cannot be substituted even if you read 1000 books on systemic racism.
Telling us to calmly explain to racists that we deserve to be treated with respect is condescending. It ignores all the work Black people have done and continue to do, it ignores the fact that every single Black person has tried to speak to a racist in our lives, and eventually got tired, but we still do it. Even though these individuals are well-meaning, they don't really get how exhausting racism is. Racism is abusive(and kills) and studies have shown that prolonged exposure to racism can create PSTD like symptoms.
Whenever any white person says "I calmly explained something and got good results" it's an indication of privilege. As a Black person, even if I spoke in a whisper (and I have) what I say can be viewed as antagonistic just because I'm Black, literally. So telling us to approach conversations a certain way is useless because we've had to adapt to living in a white-centric society, so we already interact with white people in a way that tries to minimize their discomfort.
And honestly, a lot of the explanations and coddling rhetoric for bigots is just as damaging as racism. MLK talked about being frustrated with white moderates and I feel like a lot of people fall into that still.
In ending, I won't have a conversation with a racist. If someone is going to come and they've put in an effort and they're trying, maybe I can spare 5 minutes, but the onus isn't on me to become their private tutor. White people who are supposedly sympathetic should be putting in the work, don't tell us to put in more work when we're already working 100's of years of unpaid overtime.
Telling us to calmly explain to racists that we deserve to be treated with respect is condescending. It ignores all the work Black people have done and continue to do, it ignores the fact that every single Black person has tried to speak to a racist in our lives, and eventually got tired, but we still do it. Even though these individuals are well-meaning, they don't really get how exhausting racism is. Racism is abusive(and kills) and studies have shown that prolonged exposure to racism can create PSTD like symptoms.
Whenever any white person says "I calmly explained something and got good results" it's an indication of privilege. As a Black person, even if I spoke in a whisper (and I have) what I say can be viewed as antagonistic just because I'm Black, literally. So telling us to approach conversations a certain way is useless because we've had to adapt to living in a white-centric society, so we already interact with white people in a way that tries to minimize their discomfort.
And honestly, a lot of the explanations and coddling rhetoric for bigots is just as damaging as racism. MLK talked about being frustrated with white moderates and I feel like a lot of people fall into that still.
In ending, I won't have a conversation with a racist. If someone is going to come and they've put in an effort and they're trying, maybe I can spare 5 minutes, but the onus isn't on me to become their private tutor. White people who are supposedly sympathetic should be putting in the work, don't tell us to put in more work when we're already working 100's of years of unpaid overtime.
Vicetrailia
Member
You couldn't tell that with her tweet. It's not obvious, and requires an explanation.
I could see how someone wouldn't get it, but the person you're responding to's thoughts were similar to mine. I thought it was a pretty snappy tweet about the oblivious, ugly american trope. Followed it as it was happening and couldn't believe people didn't see what I saw but I sure as hell wasn't going to jump in and get caught in the wave. Don't think she's a racist nor do i think she deserved to get fired. But that's the internet for you.
The woman in question is not a very good example mostly because the joke was satirical (though totally unfunny) and the woman was never racist to begin with. See: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/15/magazine/how-one-stupid-tweet-ruined-justine-saccos-life.html
Darryl M R
Member
Am I suppose to have empathy for her or other people that make racist comments publicly?
Oh let's forgive her because it was obviously just a joke that went over people's head.
Try again next time with the humor.
I read that article before. My point still stands. She made a tasteless joke and said afterward that it was sarcasm.
Next time tell her to put kappa or /s at the end.
Frozenprince
Banned
This thread hurts my soul
Dreams-Visions
Member
I feel like a proud parent watching my sons and daughters take the banner from my weary hands and keep on pushing. Keep on movin them forward, family. Offer the racists no quarter and try not to be too disappointed at the glacial speeds in which change is realized. The AA museum dedication should be a reminder that good things come to those who continue the fight daily in all ways you feel like you can fight. Some days will be better than others. Keep tutoring. Live Sankofa. Each one teach one. Be the change you want to see. Don't quit on yourselves or each other and don't take losses too hard. Wins will come.
As for the rest, I offer these more raw thoughts from everyone's favorite yet oft misunderstood role model:
April 16, 1963
Get your shit together and get off the fucking sidelines. If you want to be helpful, be helpful. Miss us with the coddling, the empathy for your racist mom or dad or grangran. That's the white moderate attitude that Dr. King is talking about. He's talking about YOU. Not the person sitting next to you. YOU. If your toe just got stepped on, say "ouch" and start making changes in how you act and interact. Stop being disappointing and start being a fighter. If you believe as Dr King said that a threat to justice anywhere is indeed a threat to justice everywhere...prove it.
Much love.
War-weary black man with PTSD,
DV
As for the rest, I offer these more raw thoughts from everyone's favorite yet oft misunderstood role model:
Martin Luther King, Jr.
April 16, 1963
Get your shit together and get off the fucking sidelines. If you want to be helpful, be helpful. Miss us with the coddling, the empathy for your racist mom or dad or grangran. That's the white moderate attitude that Dr. King is talking about. He's talking about YOU. Not the person sitting next to you. YOU. If your toe just got stepped on, say "ouch" and start making changes in how you act and interact. Stop being disappointing and start being a fighter. If you believe as Dr King said that a threat to justice anywhere is indeed a threat to justice everywhere...prove it.
Much love.
War-weary black man with PTSD,
DV
TestOfTide
Banned
If someone is simply ignorant or misinformed, then yes empathy and understanding will help.
But we can't waste time coddling the true bigots. Those that refuse to take in new information need to be shamed and humiliated with the goal being that eventually they will shut the fuck up about their bigoted opinions.
And if you are wondering "well how will that help", I will tell you:
1) Me and my side won't have to waste time dealing with their bigotry anymore.
2) It sets in the idea that NO, the bigots are NOT the "Silent Majority" anymore.
3) It's a lot easier to educate the ignorant and misinformed if they are less likely to be influenced by the bigoted.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Preach
MHWilliams
Member
Of course. If you have a close friend or co-worker and you want to spend the effort and time to reeducate and help that person, by all means. You'll likely have the ongoing exposure to make a strong change in their life.
A person you meet on the street or one this forum? It's likely that your action won't cause much change in theirs. Change is hard. Science has looked into it and found it pretty damned hard. Your statements to a random racist, good or bad, are unlikely to change the course of their lives or the content of their thoughts. They may never change.
Whereas someone standing up for themselves in the face of racism or sexism, stating their right to exist in the face of sentiments that make them less?
That's a powerful form of self-love.
Society has a number of tools for social change. They all have their uses, places, and times.
There is a difference between hating someone and deciding that someone is not worthwhile of the limited time you have on this earth. There's a difference between hating someone and being able to say "What you said is racist and your views are wrong." The problem we're seemingly having is conflating these contrasts as a single thing.
Darth Ghandi
Banned
Oath!
I can relate to this very much and to the thread in general.
I was raised in a very white neighborhood. So growing up I always heard things like "you are one of the good ones" etc.
Looking back I can honestly say I too said and expressed racist remarks.
And honestly, I always felt I was just one mistake or fuck up away from becoming a "bad one".
Cause that is how it works, the white man can and may give you his approval but fuck up and you are won't get to be judged as an individual.
So trying to talk with people who say racist and dog whistle remarks (muslims hate women, have lower IQ etc) is frustrating cause you must always stroke their ego and coddle them while still trying to maintain their approval of you.
But age and the rise of far right parties in the EU have made me jaded.
I mean, they are like Trump more or less and people still support them!
No fuck them and their racist beliefs.
PastorOfMuppets
Banned
Holy shit at those election maps.
White men, y'all need to wake the fuck up.
White men, y'all need to wake the fuck up.
Darryl M R
Member
Trying to make you proud everyday pops. Also don't show that side of MLK. People will stop privately calling him a good black.
Mammoth Jones
Member
It really does.
I went to a predominantly white high school, and it was really surreal. Overt racism obviously, but fetishism occurs as well. They wanted me to be this amalgam of Black people they've seen on TV, and if I didn't perform up to their expectations (and believe me I wasn't going to entertain them) they didn't react well.
And it's funny that you bring up Trump, because I've had and seen conversations with white people who will tell Black people to take a nicer tone and educate racists, but if you ask them to convert and convince a Trump supporter, they immediately see that as a lost cause. And I'm like...that's how it is when you deal with racism, but it's worse because you can't walk away from racism; a white person can choose to disengage with a Trump supporter. We have to deal with this, not just for an election season, but every day until we die.
Shadowheart
Member
I take from that WA is is the 'best' place since it is always blue?
Sweeney Tom
Banned
Oppressed people aren't obligated to teach or enable their oppressors, and it is profoundly fucked up that this even has to be pointed out. I've experienced hate from racists and homophobes, and frankly I have time for neither section of bigots. They are owed nothing from me.
While I'm ashamed that fellow men are overwhelmingly voting Trump at least if it were men of colour like me it's all blue anyway.
Wow that is insane.
It tough being a women on the internet. This really all happen why she was in a plane and people were already stalking her at the airport when her plane landed. Like wtf.
Claude Augario
Member
It's not my fault you lost your soul and it sure as hell ain't my job to shove one back into your raggedy ass!
If you are not a minority aND feel this way why not educate them yourselves? It's not a minorities responsibility to do anything, it all falls on the racist willing to learn. Doesn't get any more clear than that with the son of stormfront, who had to be in the right mind in order to be reeducated on race.
Saying it's a responsibility also suggests there is blame, bUT the only ones to blame for more/less racist world are the racists themselves.
Saying it's a responsibility also suggests there is blame, bUT the only ones to blame for more/less racist world are the racists themselves.
LegendofJoe
Member
When you're used to privilege equality feels like oppression.
I've tried to explain white privilege to a lot of people in my family but they always take personal offense when I do. It's tribalism at work and it's really hard to get people to break that mindset. The best I've been able to accomplish is to get them to agree that equality is good for society.
Maybe one day they'll come to the realization that justice and opportunity are not as easy to come by for POC, or maybe they won't. Either way I'll continue to speak with people that are interested in an honest dialogue and vote for people that have a track record of fighting for justice.
The Artisan
Member
bump - 100% sober now, looked at the OP and am still a little confused...
so here's the thing, if the recruiter is saying "people are ignorant of races and cultures. it's up to people of those races and cultures to educate them."
if that's what this is, then I agree (I agreed at first), but part of me disagrees.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKh5mPDTqgM
"Why am I a stupid white person if I just don't know that?"
"Because you think people with dreads don't wash their hair they wash their hair all, the time."
"But I don't know that!"
"Because you're...stupid white people!"
Here's the issue here - if the guy doing the explaining were being more serious at the end, he didn't have to say "because you stupid white people" at the end, no, what he'd have to say is "because you don't know and you just assume that people with dreads don't wash their hair often, and that's wrong, and that's what makes it stupid."
Was it the black person's job to tell the ignorant how it really is? Not necessarily, but he made them learn the hard way (by calling them out) how it is. If people admit they don't know certain things then of course the way to learn is to read, research, ask questions, etc...so that's where I would disagree. But at the same time I do agree that it's not really the responsibility.
But if you are ignorant of things and don't spend the effort learning on your own, why should it be done for you if you're just going to feed yourself into these preconceived (and often inaccurate) notions?
The vast majority of the whole world probably hates and distrusts Muslim people. I don't go out of my way as a goddamn missionary trying to tell people that we're not all bad. All I do is be myself, and some people can see me for who I am and see for themselves that we are just people (although I'm not sure if these days I wholeheartedly identify as Muslim but that's a different story).
Now the last thing I want to say is that, as someone who is part of a minority, sometimes I feel like society has indoctrinated me into feeling like I really am inferior to white people, the whole white privilege and white man's burden thing and all that...this is also off topic though.
Frozenprince
Banned
bumping so that people still don't get confused.
It is not. Our. Job. To. Fix. Bigots.
It is not. Our. Job. To. Fix. Bigots.
Then its not going to be fixed because the election proved the majority sure as hell aren't.
What did he mean by this?
Member
I'll coddle racists with my 2nd amendment rights
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