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[ElFly]

Eh, I just found that parries made me use more of my move set and play the game more actively. Plus you could bait parries and then toss an EX move and get a free hit. There was much to do in the game.

Unless your opponent was better at parrying and could parry an EX move on reaction. Not that hard.

No, 3 really needed at least one unparriable move for everyone. Hopefully fireballs would be unparriable to fix the fireball zoning game. Baiting is good and all, but it's no replacement for a countermechanic.

Completely agree. I admit I'm not fond of double button inputs in SF games, especially vertical double button inputs. I didn't like it in A3, I didn't like it in 3S, and for some reason in 4 it just feels even worse. Not sure what it is, but it doesn't feel like it's something I can do on reaction.

That stuff works fine in Virtua Fighter because a digit is always over guard, so it's just a matter of adding in a P or a K. I think it's just the vertical orientation honestly. If there was some way to do these inputs horizontal, it would be less of a brain twister for me.

I don't think I have a problem with double button presses, but fadc being a dash out of a focus into a special move is too much.

To be honest, I am still angry that grabs are commands now, instead of just a direction + strong/fierce/forward/roundhouse.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

Unless your opponent was better at parrying and could parry an EX move on reaction. Not that hard.

No, 3 really needed at least one unparriable move for everyone. Hopefully fireballs would be unparriable to fix the fireball zoning game. Baiting is good and all, but it's no replacement for a countermechanic.

We'll have to see how playing online against more people changes my opinion.

I honestly don't miss the fireball domination, it conferred too much advantage to characters with projectiles and masters of zoning. That made for some of the worst matches in SF2 IMO.

Hell, even playing against Sephiroth's Viper in SF4 I wish I could parry with Hakan just to stifle her damned ground pound spam.

I don't think I have a problem with double button presses, but fadc being a dash out of a focus into a special move is too much.

To be honest, I am still angry that grabs are commands now, instead of just a direction + strong/fierce/forward/roundhouse.

Agree entirely.

The only person instant throws were bad for were those silly bastards that had anti-throwing rules or who lost their marbles when you tossed them. "OH NOW I'M GONNA THROW YOU!" Haha. . . man.

 

[Skilletor]

Unless your opponent was better at parrying and could parry an EX move on reaction. Not that hard.

No, 3 really needed at least one unparriable move for everyone. Hopefully fireballs would be unparriable to fix the fireball zoning game. Baiting is good and all, but it's no replacement for a countermechanic.



I don't think I have a problem with double button presses, but fadc being a dash out of a focus into a special move is too much.

To be honest, I am still angry that grabs are commands now, instead of just a direction + strong/fierce/forward/roundhouse.

I hate direction + button. That makes the computer decide whether or not I'm close enough to grab. I much prefer committing to exactly what I want to do.

Playing charge characters and wanting to do a simple 2 hit, fierce xx sonic boom combo becomes an exercise in frustration with one button throws. I especially hated CvS2 which had one button throws AND whiff animations. I WAS doing f+ fierce. Not throw.

Ugh.

Having unparryable moves would be amazing.

 

[El Sloth]

I hate direction + button. That makes the computer decide whether or not I'm close enough to grab. I much prefer committing to exactly what I want to do.

Same. I hate how unreliable it can be sometimes. It makes me use them less.

Having unparryable moves would be amazing.

Similar to focus breaking moves in S4?

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Yes that's me.

Dudley is a totally different character in SSFIV / AE. The system does him no favours. In 3S, he is a beast, in IV, he's just kind of meh. Still fun to play though.

Anyway the IV series is pretty good, just IMO not as good (or as fun) as the 2, 3 or Alpha series.

That was a great tutorial, I play dudley in SSF4 and do alright with him in part thank to that tutorial, it was much more helpful then the dudley boards on srk at least.

 

[ElFly]

I loved direction + button to grab. It felt so badass that the computer would know that you wanted to grab. Sometimes it was like the machine could read your mind.

TBF, in the online fighting game scene, we are better served by command grabs, but there was no good reason to make them commands back in 3/alpha3, particularly when that introduced kara throws.

e: there was so much wrong with CVS2 that having whiffing animations for grabs when they weren't commands is just a small detail. Still a super fun game, just not something I'd call balanced, or fair, or any other of those adjectives.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

Similar to focus breaking moves in S4?

I'm not sure if it would work since Parry is instant and Focus is this big dumb "HEY EVERYBODY LOOK AT ME CHARGIN' MY HITZOR!"

The anti-parry move is the one your opponent isn't expecting.

God I can't wait to play this game online!

 

[Skilletor]

I'm not sure if it would work since Parry is instant and Focus is this big dumb "HEY EVERYBODY LOOK AT ME CHARGIN' MY HITZOR!"

The anti-parry move is the one your opponent isn't expecting.

That would be true if both high and low parries didn't universally parry mid.

 

[CPS2]

When you use a focus as a parry it's usually against fireballs or sweeps, and you're meant to FA then dash forward and hit them before they recover. There's not much "hey look at this focus attack" going on if you're using them for the same purpose.

 

[SkylineRKR]

I don't mind pressing 2 buttons for throws, I think close combat benefits from it. But I don't like holding those buttons down for something like Focus.

In Alpha 3 the command for throws were 2 punch/kick buttons I believe, which felt better imo.

 

[Mista Koo]

It is weird that the 4 series was designed to bring beginners into the game, yet introduced such weird mechanics, even worse when you consider that the game was built for online play.

Yeah, as a beginner I don't know any of these stuff (I only use focus attack when the opponent is dizzy). But it's still fun.

 

[CurseoftheGods]

I would like to see both FA and parries return in Street Fighter V. Just make projectiles immune to parries and throw that FADC garbage out the window.

I think a mix of SF III+IV mechanics would make a good SF.

 

[V_Arnold]

TTOB, "uninteresting" is pretty subjective - Viper is hardly an uninteresting character, really.
I would love to see the freshness in SFV though, so we agree that Capcom should add a lot more new chars instead of bringing the outdated ones.

 

[Tizoc]

TTOB, "uninteresting" is pretty subjective - Viper is hardly an uninteresting character, really.
I would love to see the freshness in SFV though, so we agree that Capcom should add a lot more new chars instead of bringing the outdated ones.

Prob. is older characters tend to be more popular, just look at KoF.
I agree that the game should have a bigger number of new characters. One character I'd like to see is Remy's father.

IMO, SF4 has better character balance than SF3.

 

[abstract alien]

What does everyone feel about a complex mechanic(such as Focus) vs a simplified one(such as Parry)? First, let me note that I do not believe one is better than another, and both fit their respective games quite nicely in the general sense. I'm solely asking what would anyone actually prefer if given the choice between Focus(a mechanic that has quite a few uses and a more complex tool by nature), vs something that is pure and clean cut, such as the Parry(limited uses, as far as diversity and complexity I mean. It only does one thing.)

I'm just using Focus and Parry as general examples to a general question. I do believe it would depend entirely on the game design, but lets just assume that its good enough to the point of it coming down to personal tastes.

 

[SkylineRKR]

One of the reasons why SF3 comes over as more exciting than SFIV is also because of its lesser emphasis on balance. SF3 is actually unbalanced as fuck, there is Chun Li and there is Twelve. Although as shown, the parry mechanic in the hands of a pro can turn the table around even if the match up is totally uneven = excitement.

SSFIV was too balanced, which is partially why Capcom came up with AE.

 

[V_Arnold]

One of the reasons why SF3 comes over as more exciting than SFIV is also because of its lesser emphasis on balance. SF3 is actually unbalanced as fuck, there is Chun Li and there is Twelve. Although as shown, the parry mechanic in the hands of a pro can turn the table around even if the match up is totally uneven = excitement.

SSFIV was too balanced, which is partially why Capcom came up with AE.

That is pure bullshit. They messed up, came up with a reasoning instead, that is it. No wonder why there will be a balance change again. There is no such thing as "too balanced".

 

[SkylineRKR]

Didn't Ono make the AE = unbalanced claims already before the final release of AE? Why would they screw up if they build upon SSFIV. Next to implementing Yun, they deliberately nerfed some SSFIV characters who were balanced out before as well. Then they released it on consoles without changing anything yet either.

It does hold merit if they claim they deliberately did it to stir things up, and the balance patch might very well be the result of ongoing complaints by their fanbase when the game hit consoles, something they weren't planning in the first place IIRC.

 

[SamVimes]

One of the reasons why SF3 comes over as more exciting than SFIV is also because of its lesser emphasis on balance. SF3 is actually unbalanced as fuck, there is Chun Li and there is Twelve. Although as shown, the parry mechanic in the hands of a pro can turn the table around even if the match up is totally uneven = excitement.

SSFIV was too balanced, which is partially why Capcom came up with AE.

Yeah because seeing every major dominated by three characters is so exciting.

 

[RS4-]

It's nice that throws are a command rather than direction, allowed a bigger move list, but at the same time it introduced kara nonsense.

Yeah, in ST, Ryu had towards+fierce but that was aggravating as well if you wanted a throw instead.

 

[zlatko]

Prob. is older characters tend to be more popular, just look at KoF.
I agree that the game should have a bigger number of new characters. One character I'd like to see is Remy's father.

IMO, SF4 has better character balance than SF3.

Yeah, but KoF has like 900 characters at this point that are awesome and have unique play styles.

I'd be up for a SF5 with a roster of 15 at the start, and I want at least 10+ of those to be brand new characters never before seen. After that they can dole out the fan service.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Yeah because seeing every major dominated by three characters is so exciting.

I'm rather playing the game myself, and form my opinion on that. Still, pro level SF3 fights are more interesting to watch than SFIV ones. But thats my personal take on it.

 

[Tizoc]

Yeah, but KoF has like 900 characters at this point that are awesome and have unique play styles.

Except that for the most part, they played the same from one KoF to the next, and even when certain characters change, the fans would end up prefering the older version more. Case in point: Ralf and Iori.
Dunno about unique play styles though.

 

[ShinobiFist]

Except that for the most part, they played the same from one KoF to the next, and even when certain characters change, the fans would end up prefering the older version more. Case in point: Ralf and Iori.
Dunno about unique play styles though.

You know how many times I have to ask my boys when I play the KOF collection disc, what version of Robert is this? Not sure if is the charge one or the fireball motion one, lol.

 

[TheSeks]

In perfect world Capcom would follow the SF2 / SF3 model of character addition. Just add new characters in the first iteration of a new main line SF game, and then add old favorites back in. Assuming that they didn't want to do the most awesome solution and just put EVERYONE in the game. Everyone.

Yet with the new character first model it forces folks to learn the new characters instead of falling back on old favorites.

And while they do that, they won't see sales from me until SSF#:T:HTCE:HD Remix: Now with Cody/Chunnie/etc. etc. etc. edition comes out. And I'm sure a bunch of casual players feel the same. SSF4 worked because the old characters coming back. Hell, just look at KoF right now: A bunch of people want old Iori/Kyo movesets and looks, why? Because they're popular and what they know. Forcing people to "learn new characters," isn't going to bring sales outside of the tournament players that want a new game or people willing to invest time into learning new characters in the first place.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

TTOB, "uninteresting" is pretty subjective - Viper is hardly an uninteresting character, really.
I would love to see the freshness in SFV though, so we agree that Capcom should add a lot more new chars instead of bringing the outdated ones.

Sorry, that is the wrong word.

Reserved is a better description of the original new four. Viper isn't a bad design, she just looks like a KoF character; but doesn't play like one. Abel is bland, bland, bland. Both Fuerte and Rufus are hilarious racist stereotypes; but I don't care for Fuerte's play style and Rufus -- ugh just look at him.

Even Juri is lame.

Come to Hakan. He has hugs for everyone!

And while they do that, they won't see sales from me until SSF#:T:HTCE:HD Remix: Now with Cody/Chunnie/etc. etc. etc. edition comes out. And I'm sure a bunch of casual players feel the same. SSF4 worked because the old characters coming back. Hell, just look at KoF right now: A bunch of people want old Iori/Kyo movesets and looks, why? Because they're popular and what they know. Forcing people to "learn new characters," isn't going to bring sales outside of the tournament players that want a new game or people willing to invest time into learning new characters in the first place.

I give SNK a pass because they overhauled all of the sprites for a new decade. Plus KoF was always the culmination of most contemporary SNK fighters with some original characters for the series.

Bottom line - given SNK's troubled past, I don't realistically expect them to come up with 24 brand new characters. Here's to hoping SNK doesn't go the way of Irem and Hudson.

 

[LakeEarth]

Having unparryable moves would be amazing.

There are a handful in 3s. Most notably, the first hit of Akuma's ground-pound super.

 

[Tizoc]

You know how many times I have to ask my boys when I play the KOF collection disc, what version of Robert is this? Not sure if is the charge one or the fireball motion one, lol.

lol, Robert's many versions makes it hard to make a movelist sometimes, you could got he NGBC route or Classic route.

 

[CurseoftheGods]

One of the reasons why SF3 comes over as more exciting than SFIV is also because of its lesser emphasis on balance. SF3 is actually unbalanced as fuck, there is Chun Li and there is Twelve. Although as shown, the parry mechanic in the hands of a pro can turn the table around even if the match up is totally uneven = excitement.

SSFIV was too balanced, which is partially why Capcom came up with AE.

Why aren't more people ripping this guy a new one?

 

[DjangoReinhardt]

That said, I like that 3S requires less execution than 4. Yeah, parries are a bitch to do, but they are way more reasonable than one frame links. Same with FADC. It is weird that the 4 series was designed to bring beginners into the game, yet introduced such weird mechanics, even worse when you consider that the game was built for online play.

SFIV is flat-out schizophrenic in terms of design direction. It boggles the mind that Capcom looked at SFII for inspiration to bring the series back to its roots, yet completely ignored the simplicity of those early iterations. Instead, they slapped on even more subsystems and introduced lenient inputs and shortcuts, all of which caused more problems than they solved.

Capcom did a better job striking the balance between accessibility and depth in the early 90s than at any point since.

 

[Skilletor]

There are a handful in 3s. Most notably, the first hit of Akuma's ground-pound super.

There are a few. Alex's b+fp, Akuma's move. Alex's move is actually quite useful and makes me wish every character had something similar.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

SFIV is flat-out schizophrenic in terms of design direction. It boggles the mind that Capcom looked at SFII for inspiration to bring the series back to its roots, yet completely ignored the simplicity of those early iterations. Instead, they slapped on even more subsystems and introduced lenient inputs and shortcuts, all of which caused more problems than they solved.

The training mode in SF4 really does need bolstering.

I'm very interested in the 3Soe challenges as they're being marketed as teaching you bread and butter combos and stuff that is useful in game. Too many training mode combos in games are predicated on the principle that your opponent will never block, never attack, and just be a virtual punching bag for you. :\

Capcom did a better job striking the balance between accessibility and depth in the early 90s than at any point since.

Fighting gamers and developers are chasing a fantasy, a game that's easily played by everybody; but that has intricate systems and crazy depth for the deeply religious.

 

[CountAntonius]

SF in KoFXIII Style Sprites.

More at link. Would you guys have preferred this to SFIV's look?

 

[entremet]

While S3 is prettier, I actually like SF4's models. I think the whole 3d versus 2d thing is overblown. Console hardware has the power these days create great looking models.

Heck, I think VF5 models are the best looking to date in any fighting game-2d or 3d. Well, VS probably wins in terms of overall art direction.

 

[crimzonflame]

More at link. Would you guys have preferred this to SFIV's look?

Yes. Greatly.

 

[Zombie James]

More at link. Would you guys have preferred this to SFIV's look?

Without question.

 

[Lothars]

More at link. Would you guys have preferred this to SFIV's look?

It looks good but I prefer SFIV's look.

 

[Rickenslacker]

More at link. Would you guys have preferred this to SFIV's look?

It would've been amazing.

 

[CO_Andy]

Would you guys have preferred this to SFIV's look?

I would of preferred this.

 

[kokujin]

I'd take even 3S sprites over SFIV graphics.The game is just ugly.

 

[bgassassin]

You must not remember 1992.

Seeing Dhalsim for the first time and going "WTF IS THIS SH*T?" I remember thinking - "How is that even fair?"

And why weren't the two guys on the main screen anywhere in the game?!

SF2 characters did not spring into the popular culture of the time wholly formed. Being there and experiencing it was great. Going from seeing two screen shots in the back of an issue of Electronic Gaming Monthly, to seeing it in the arcades and being blown away by the giant characters and the crazy stuff going on.

This many times over. I still remember the first time I seen/played SF2. I was at a large grocery store and after standing there and watching through the intro and demo screens I chose Dhalsim or that exact reason, lol.

 

[SkylineRKR]

haha, yeah. Dhalsim's insane reach made him an initial choice for me as well back in '91. Although most youngsters around here chose Guile I remember.

Why aren't more people ripping this guy a new one?

Give the good example and go ahead.

 

[Augemitbutter]

More at link. Would you guys have preferred this to SFIV's look?

absolutely

 

[Kadey]

Good thing we all play games not based on how it looks! Oh wait.

Most of us, including a bunch of top players thought SFIV looked goofy when it was first shown. But it plays so good that it doesn't matter.

 

[U n i o n 0015]

Would you guys have preferred this to SFIV's look?

That would've been kickass. Though I love the 2D in 3D of SFIV, the characters themselves look too much like buffoons.

 

[sixteen-bit]

I'm not a huge fan KOF12 and 13's art direction compared to previous KOFs, but those "what if" sprites for SF4 are interesting.

 

[Kai Dracon]

While S3 is prettier, I actually like SF4's models. I think the whole 3d versus 2d thing is overblown. Console hardware has the power these days create great looking models.

Heck, I think VF5 models are the best looking to date in any fighting game-2d or 3d. Well, VS probably wins in terms of overall art direction.

People don't seem to see how manga and/or anime SF's art style got after SF2 - Alpha sure, very animated looking, but even SFIII is very much Japanese manga style art.

Now, that's not a bad thing. The art is great.

But Capcom was very aware that America mattered more than Japan when it came to re-launching SF with IV. SFIV's art direction and character models are very much designed to strike a balance between Japanese aesthetic (mainly in color palette and shading styles) and western style art (chunky, "action-figure" characters, men who look very chiseled and manly, etc).

Not every single model in the game is of equal quality - for all that people love to hate Ryu, he looks fine. Blanka looks fine too if you pick a slightly less cartoon green color. The worst looking character in the game is actually Ken IMHO. He isn't translated well into the style.

Everyone else though, looks damned awesome, 3rd Strike art fetishism be damned. Some of the most detailed and well animated models for their time with the most personality filled animation of any 3D fighting game. They did actually use SFIII as a point of reference for detail of animation - SFIV does a crapton of great things, such as individually applied motion blur for specific attack animations, and faces and hands that are fully animated. Future 2.5D Capcom games will only get better, but SFIV really set the bar for how to bring the vibrant detail and character of great 2D art into a 3D environment.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

SF in KoFXIII Style Sprites.

More at link. Would you guys have preferred this to SFIV's look?

Yes, yes - a thousand times yes.

 

[Veal]

SF in KoFXIII Style Sprites.
More at link. Would you guys have preferred this to SFIV's look?

Nah. For as much as I like 2d and SNK sprite art, I LOVE the fact that SFIV can look really goofy at times. Especially during ultras (the bug-eyed reactions are the best!) Really harkens back to SFII and makes me happy because a lot of fighters seem to want to get away from really cartoony looks and silly moments, or they simply make one character be the comic relief while everyone else is "cool."

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

Nah. For as much as I like 2d and SNK sprite art, I LOVE the fact that SFIV can look really goofy at times. Especially during ultras (the bug-eyed reactions are the best!) Really harkens back to SFII and makes me happy because a lot of fighters seem to want to get away from really cartoony looks and silly moments, or they simply make one character be the comic relief while everyone else is "cool."

The above art doesn't look cartoony at all, obviously