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[iconmaster]

I did not expect the Battlefront 2 solution to spread. What exactly is happening out there?

https://community.wbgames.com/t5/Of...ates-Coming-to-Shadow-of-War/m-p/1831034#M762

The ability to purchase Gold will permanently cease on May 8, 2018. The permanent removal of Gold, War Chests and the Market will take place on July 17, 2018, at the same time as all other updates discussed above.

Here's the really interesting part for me: a developer is publicly acknowledging that microtransactions impact the game for all players, even if you personally never purchase any of them.

While purchasing Orcs in the Market is more immediate and provides additional player options, we have come to realize that providing this choice risked undermining the heart of our game, the Nemesis System. It allows you to miss out on the awesome player stories you would have otherwise created, and it compromises those same stories even if you don’t buy anything. Simply being aware that they are available for purchase reduces the immersion in the world and takes away from the challenge of building your personal army and your fortresses.

(emphasis mine)

This is a fantastic development for this game at least, and maybe it signals bigger currents moving the industry...

 

[LaughingStock]

Maybe it's good PR now. "Look, we're not so greedy after all."

 

[iconmaster]

^ A friend pointed out that Monolith waited almost 6 months to have this "realization." So it's entirely likely they've made all the microtransaction money they were going to make. Still, the admission that buying orcs impacted the game for all players seems remarkable to me.

 

[nowhat]

maybe it signals bigger currents moving the industry

So, nearly a year after release, there will not be microtransactions in a single-player game?

Great, I guess?

More seriously though, had they done this like a month or two after release I'd be more positive about it. Before release even, great. As of now... meh. If this is an indication of where the industry is headed (fleece the consumers for a year, then be the good guy) I can't say I'm for it.

 

[Dubloon7]

just like Jim Sterling said: TOO LITTLE TOO LATE. I'll play this ONLY when it hits PS+ IGC or $5 bin. Had enough fun with Mordor, but not enough to warrant a full price purchase for #2.

 

[dottme]

This looks greedy as hell.
They try to get as much money as they can from early adopters and then slowly reduce the price to sell more copy and get more money.
It doesn’t looks like they care about micro-transactions but more like they try to maximize profit.

We will see what their next game looks like, but I don’t think they are giving up on micro-transaction.

 

[sublimit]

Hey Warner...go fuck yourselves and your disgusting attempt at PR.

 

[scydrex]

Yeah now they will remove the micro-crap. Will wait for PS+ or a bargain to play this.

 

[Danjin44]

While purchasing Orcs in the Market is more immediate and provides additional player options, we have come to realize that providing this choice risked undermining the heart of our game, the Nemesis System. It allows you to miss out on the awesome player stories you would have otherwise created, and it compromises those same stories even if you don’t buy anything. Simply being aware that they are available for purchase reduces the immersion in the world and takes away from the challenge of buildin

This was not something they just realized all the sudden. They knew this from very beginning and still decided to put microtransactions anyway because they simply wanted more money.

 

[iconmaster]

^ That's plausible. But now they've gone "on the record" admitting that microtransactions have an impact on game design (narrative, mechanics, etc.). It'll be harder to claim ignorance of those effects next time, no?

 

[Danjin44]

^ That's plausible. But now they've gone "on the record" admitting that microtransactions have an impact on game design (narrative, mechanics, etc.). It'll be harder to claim ignorance of those effects next time, no?

It's also possible for their next game they try to spine it like "this is new way we put microtransactions in our game but this TIME it won't effect the gameplay like our last game"

My point was I highly, highly doubt they didn't know it will effect the game. They very well knew and decided to do it anyway and to me that's pretty shitty of them.

I really hope this whole microtransactions business ends like online passes did.

 

[gioGAF]

Not much of a gesture if this is just how they plan to handle the business model. We can talk when they release their next big game and it doesn't have microtransactions at launch because they have realized that they ruin the gaming experience for their customers.

 

[Fbh]

Cool I guess. But my interest in it was already killed and at this point I only see myself picking it up if it's in some sub $10 sale on a month I have nothing else to play.

My guess is they saw the in-game sales of the game decrease to a point where there was more to gain from taking them out and getting some positive PR

 

[Silent Viper]

I completed everything including Shadow wars without spending any money. They released multiple patches which made gold boxes meaningless. Game was giving you crazy amount of free in game currency for you to buy silver boxes. By the time I was finished I had like 54 silver boxes left to open lol.

Shadow wars was joke. So damn easy, completed it one under 6 hours. There's no need to buy any loot boxes in the game. There's absolutely no grind now as you get more than enough in game currency.

People were assuming stuff without even trying the game. People start hating on the game moment they hear word loot boxes.

 

[Shifty]

This is the new long tail then. Mitigate the outrage over highly profitable microtransactions and gambling mechanics in stages after release, then rip all the bullshit out and mop up the remaining sales from people still on the fence.

Bit late for the hype though. I might get it if it's deeply discounted down the line.

 

[TheDuskwalker]

I completed everything including Shadow wars without spending any money. They released multiple patches which made gold boxes meaningless. Game was giving you crazy amount of free in game currency for you to buy silver boxes. By the time I was finished I had like 54 silver boxes left to open lol.

Shadow wars was joke. So damn easy, completed it one under 6 hours. There's no need to buy any loot boxes in the game. There's absolutely no grind now as you get more than enough in game currency.

People were assuming stuff without even trying the game. People start hating on the game moment they hear word loot boxes.

I thought about saying something jokingly about your defense being they put in a system that's only point was to give money for nothing , but I decided to let Digital Extremes tell you how meaningless RNG based microtransactions are still harmful based on something they did and then pulled (just because of 1 single person), and this is also a good example of who these "AAA" publishers are aiming to catch with lootboxes/RNG rewards (which is also a good indication of how just how "good of people" they actually are), and why some think it should be treated with the same rules as gambling.
https://gamerant.com/warframe-microtransaction-kubrow/

 

[goldenpp72]

I'm sure with their next game this will be a lesson learned. Yep.

 

[DonF]

Non cosmetic item loot boxes can die in a fire. Great, I liked shadow of mordor but was in the fence about war cause of the loot boxes. Now I added it to my wishlist.

 

[NickFire]

I saw this earlier and honestly think they are doing this just to get their game talked about in the news. I'm not against them doing it and like that they are. I just think their decision is more of a publicity stunt because I don't recall hearing much about this game since it launched.

On an industry level, I hope this becomes the norm though lets be real, Madden / FIFA / NBA are not going this route. But for those who are willing to sell micro-transactions that are not forced, like cosmetic appearances in Fortnight, new clothes / Jasons in Friday the 13th, etc., I think the marker has shown a tremendous willingness to support content creators that are not trying to screw the market over.

 

[IncognitoPanda]

This looks greedy as hell.
They try to get as much money as they can from early adopters and then slowly reduce the price to sell more copy and get more money.
It doesn’t looks like they care about micro-transactions but more like they try to maximize profit.

We will see what their next game looks like, but I don’t think they are giving up on micro-transaction.

Everyone tries to maximize profit, but I highly doubt they just realized the MTs made worse game design. They knew well the game would be better with a more sensible (and free) progression system.

Now they have made their money, so good PR is worth more than the MT system now. Thus they play it off as a "we just realized removing it is a good design decision", as if money was never the issue.

Good on them being open, but unless they don't use P2W ever again; empty words.

 

[iconmaster]

I thought I was decently cynical already but Gaf is setting me straight!

Y'all are probably right though.

 

[theclaw135]

Everyone tries to maximize profit, but I highly doubt they just realized the MTs made worse game design. They knew well the game would be better with a more sensible (and free) progression system.

Now they have made their money, so good PR is worth more than the MT system now. Thus they play it off as a "we just realized removing it is a good design decision", as if money was never the issue.

Good on them being open, but unless they don't use P2W ever again; empty words.

You should check out WWE 2K18. That game has "loot boxes", except one cannot pay real currency for them.
Ironically it's in some ways even worse than MTs.

 

[Barakov]

Kinda just makes sense to wait for the DLC edition of all the games Warner publishes.

 

[Zannegan]

Here's hoping this does signal a new trend in game development, but I'm not holding my breath. On the other hand, I will be looking at the complete edition of this game whenever they announce it, despite giving Shadow a hard pass on launch. Hopefully this lip service means something positive for their next game.

 

[TYRiAX]

as we all know the real test is if the next game they release has the same invasive macrotransactions or not

 

[camelCase]

Nice but too little too late. I don't even want to play this game because of the stinky stanky gross funk of which it reeks because of all this. Should have done it before launch, but still, nice.

 

[Barsinister]

They most likely will have a GOTY edition. Hopefully with all of the micro transactions not needing to be patched because they are not in there anymore. I will consider buying it then.

 

[newtypepilot]

More than likely, they've realized there's sharp drop in revenue from lootboxes because the whales have moved on to other games, so now they are trying to gain some goodwill PR under guise of "we are listening to fans' feedback".

Remember the devs defended microtransactions by saying they provide player choice. Or that WB tried to profit from a dev who passed away due to cancer.

 

[Soul of Cinder]

more return by positive PR than what they estimated they would get from future microtransactions. Still great and have been wanting to play it since launch, will probably get it on CDkeys soon.

 

[wipeout364]

I did not buy this game based on the microtransactions and I actually really enjoyed the first one. Lost sale from me and I would have bought the gold edition. Problem is with these developers is they want it all : deluxe edition, season pass, and then locking stuff behind loot boxes and microtransactions it’s just too f@&king much. I can handle deluxe and season pass but loot boxes make me crazy.

 

[Neolombax]

Yeah now they will remove the micro-crap. Will wait for PS+ or a bargain to play this.

I expect it to be a PS+ free game sometime next year.

 

[rokkerkory]

Good riddens

 

[Louis Cyphre]

They were trying to defend them pre-launch so this comes across as too little too late. The good thing (hopefully) is it helps the trend away from microtransactions in games.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Milk as much as you can off the beginners, then remove later to boost sales a second time. Pretty smart

 

[Ixiah]

And of course its gonna be back for Mordor 3.....

 

[ar0s]

Hopefully this is the start of a trend. Once they are gone I will buy the game, was interested in this but MTs stopped me from buying. No interest in pay-2-play on console.

Strongly agree that knowing you can spend real money strongly reduces immersion too. It brings your finances into the game when most are playing for an escape from real life.

 

[Orpheum]

Eh i suspect they do it just to boost sales again a little. It's been way too long and microtransaction revenue seems to plummet. At least that's what i think. It'll surely be back for their next game

 

[Elvin Culdrige]

Jeez, I sure hope so. The trend of nickle and diming consumers can't die fast enough if you ask me

 

[mikestrife]

"Additionally, we’ll be updating the Shadow Wars section of the campaign, where players defend their fortresses against Sauron’s repeated counter-attacks. This portion of the game will be improved with new narrative elements and streamlined for a more cohesive experience."

I may actually play this sometime if this ends up being a good enough change. Hearing about the grind from this section turned me off the game completely.

 

[flacopol]

always pushing the boundaries of the consumer, now the common player is "happy" for this but in reality this never had to happens

 

[camelCase]

I did not buy this game based on the microtransactions and I actually really enjoyed the first one. Lost sale from me and I would have bought the gold edition. Problem is with these developers is they want it all : deluxe edition, season pass, and then locking stuff behind loot boxes and microtransactions it’s just too f@&king much. I can handle deluxe and season pass but loot boxes make me crazy.

Yea I feel the same way. I can't buy games that come with a season pass because there's so much baggage associated with it.

 

[LucidFeuer]

It's impossible. There is nothing rational in them removing micro-transaction if it was not for a better revenue...BUT that doesn't mean it's a vicious turn-around, it could actually simply be an actually more rational and sensed approach of how not fucking over and alienating your players means more revenue on the mid-longer term.

I HIGHLY DOUBT SO.

Chances are the whole industry will move to the "game as a service format", which means you only buy the game ONCE to unlock ALL the content, current and upcoming, but you can buy non-unitarian in-app transaction ie. you can unlock and access all the content with playing but you can accelerate or facilitate things by buying currency to buy these items or unlocks upfront.

Now the problem is how much grinding do you actually have to do to unlock these things...which is the real-problem and trap here.

 

[MayauMiao]

At this point gamers have move on to better things.

The loot box/pay-to-win have ruined this title so much its hard for this game to get any good word of mouth at this time.

Maybe when its bargain bin priced it will be worth the purchase.

 

[TheDuskwalker]

At this point gamers have move on to better things.

The loot box/pay-to-win have ruined this title so much its hard for this game to get any good word of mouth at this time.

Maybe when its bargain bin priced it will be worth the purchase.

I assume they're trying to get good press before the inevitable complete edition is announced like the previous game, and many other WB games.

 

[Silent Viper]

I don't think we will see loot boxes in many games now. MS also moved away from lootboxes with sea of thieves and state of Decay 2.


I'm 100% sure Gears 5 and Halo 6 will not have Gear and req packs.

Industry changing now and now they moving away from lootboxes.

 

[Swizzle]

It's impossible. There is nothing rational in them removing micro-transaction if it was not for a better revenue...BUT that doesn't mean it's a vicious turn-around, it could actually simply be an actually more rational and sensed approach of how not fucking over and alienating your players means more revenue on the mid-longer term.

I HIGHLY DOUBT SO.

Chances are the whole industry will move to the "game as a service format", which means you only buy the game ONCE to unlock ALL the content, current and upcoming, but you can buy non-unitarian in-app transaction ie. you can unlock and access all the content with playing but you can accelerate or facilitate things by buying currency to buy these items or unlocks upfront.

Now the problem is how much grinding do you actually have to do to unlock these things...which is the real-problem and trap here.

Like Jim Sterling eloquently put having to do this put them in a condition to state (and give arguments to their detractors next time they try to pull something similar) that they were either lying about the effect of micro transactions and loot boxes even on customers not purchasing them or they were so incompetent that it took them a year with tons of people screaming at them and reduced revenue to figure out that their game was actually harmed by micro transactions.

Selling ways to speed up or facilitate obtaining new items/powers/features inherently poses a conflict of interest between optimising the experience without the micro transactions and losing potential revenue and making it all the more grindy to force more and more people into paying (see effects of having micro transactions and especially free to play games in general on game design).

 

[Spukc]

Missing that line all players refunded.
So they can still fuck off.

Prob money was already obtained slimy basterds

 

[Virex]

Could be a few developers and publishers trying to garner some good will from gamers and wait till this blows over and reintroduce micro transactions or find a new way to get more money out of gamers

 

[LucidFeuer]

Like Jim Sterling eloquently put having to do this put them in a condition to state (and give arguments to their detractors next time they try to pull something similar) that they were either lying about the effect of micro transactions and loot boxes even on customers not purchasing them or they were so incompetent that it took them a year with tons of people screaming at them and reduced revenue to figure out that their game was actually harmed by micro transactions.

Selling ways to speed up or facilitate obtaining new items/powers/features inherently poses a conflict of interest between optimising the experience without the micro transactions and losing potential revenue and making it all the more grindy to force more and more people into paying (see effects of having micro transactions and especially free to play games in general on game design).

This is totally a matter of game design. In fact I think the F2P format is a whole and probably more complex pan of game designing: how do you design, code and calculate your game to determine howmuch enjoyement and addiction can you get for free until you have to be enticed to pay somethings, and how much grinding and paying do you have too do until it becomes to alienating or expensive.

The vast majority of companies fail there, wether it's Niantic for Pokemon Go, EA with Battelfront or Shadow of War, but then most other F2Ps are redundant unoriginal crap.

I think the "game as a service" model is the absolute best, because again it's prime exemple, which is GTA V, allows you to get a PAID single story experience, which is then extended with reccuring online add-ons for which you can buy Shark Card, which mean publisher get both the initial unitary purchase and the extended online revenue from F2P. This would work great with any game from Battlefront or Overwatch had they produced a single story mode, and games like Zelda:BoTW or Final Fantasy XV (not that Comrade BS), but for the gamer that also means the success can still rely on the AAA production of high quality single player games as the basis (save for unicorns like those PUBG or Clan Wars disgusting couch potato crap but that's another problem).