• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings |OT| The MCU is now Kung-Fu Fighting

Lupingosei

Banned
Something something pandemic.
Something something 200 million budget


Cruella's production budget is reportedly $200 million, making it a very expensive endeavor. That price tag is higher than other Disney live-action re-imaginings like Aladdin ($183 million), Beauty and the Beast ($160 million), and Maleficent: Mistress of Evil ($185 million). Cruella's budget is more in line with what one would expect from a tentpole comic book adaptation. Disney's upcoming Black Widow also cost around $200 million to make.
 

Lupingosei

Banned
Jungle Cruise, Cruella, Wonder Woman 1984, and Godzilla vs Kong ALL are getting sequels just based on their streaming performance.
Out of all of those movies, Godzilla is the only one that did not tank at the box office. And after all those movies tanked, people went to streaming services to pay 200-300+ million to make it a profit.

Or is Disney announcing sequels to keep up the facade that people don't ask too many questions about their choice of what kind of movies are getting produced?
 

sol_bad

Member
Some did worse some did better. Some did pre-pandemic numbers. You can't use that as an excuse for everything.

For example, there was absolutely no competition for the movie except an homage to 70's and 80's horror schlock.

By the end of Shang Chi's run at the cinema, maybe two movies will have made more money than Shang Chi and that's Fast 9 and Godzilla vs Kong. Both of which had a healthy helping from China.

*EDIT*
I'm saying the cinema industry is recovering. It will take people a while to get back into the swing of things and start frequenting cinemas again. Domestically, Shang Chi might make more than Doctor Strange, a pre-pandemic film. Internationally I don't think Shang Chi will hit 336 million which is what Doctor Strange did without the Chinese box office.
 
Last edited:

ManaByte

Gold Member
people went to streaming services to pay 200-300+ million to make it a profit.

They have 100 million paying subscribers at $7 a month, and they keep 100% of that money compared to what movies make in theaters.

Likewise HBO has nearly 50 million monthly paying subs at twice the price.
 

strange headache

Fluctuat nec mergitur
The forced hype about the painfully middling performance of this movie is just laughable:

That’s a drop of 67% from its $29.5 million opening day, which means the Simu Liu-starring Marvel movie is playing, like, well, a Marvel movie. That 68% drop is more or less equal to the likes of Ant-Man, Captain America: The Winter Soldier, Guardians of the Galaxy and Captain Marvel. Sure, it’s a bigger Friday drop than Black Panther (-62%) but it’s a better hold than Captain America: Civil War (-74%) and Black Widow (-80%). We’re likely looking at a $33 million (-56%) second weekend, which again is right in the realm of “normal” for a big Marvel movie.

Hooray for the 20th highest grossing MCU movie 🎊 International numbers are atrocious with a 60/40 split. Black Widow made 370mio and was considered a failure. This movie will perform just slightly better, but considering that it needs at least 500mio to break even, this is not the success story that the media shills or Marvel fanboys make it out to be:

It'll probably end up around the 20th highest-grossing MCU movie, although can take some comfort that it'll outgross Black Widow. So in the cold light of day, Shang-Chi might seem a bit of a flop in Marvel terms after we got used to regular $1 billion hits for the MCU.

 
Last edited:

Liamario

Member
It was entertaining. I doubt I'd watch it again though. Marvel need to reduce their reliance on CGI sets, especially if they're not going to allot enough time to their creation.
 

sol_bad

Member
Cancel mobs "digging in" is terrible, but seriously that Reddit pedo post is...YIKES.


MEH
He has done research on the topic and it lines up with my friend says who works as a parole officer for these types of people. They can't help what they're attracted to just like I can't help that I'm attracted to brunettes, Filo, Japanese and Korean women.
Do I have sympathy for them? NO.
Do I think that if they act on it they should be castrated and beaten to near death? YES.

It's a tricky topic to discuss. I'm sure I'll get some nasty replies just for saying the above.
 
Shit was weak.

The plot and character structure is just a slightly rearranged Black Panther that was shot to look like a Disney Channel original movie.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member

  • The streaming premiere of Marvel Studios’ Shang-Chi and The Legend of The Ten Rings
  • The beloved Disney family-friendly adventure film Jungle Cruise, available to all subscribers

hmmmmmmmmmmm
One says "all subscribers", one doesn't.

Because Shang-Chi is the "streaming premiere".

Jungle Cruise has been streaming since July for $30. That's why they're saying it's available to everyone, because it won't be $30 anymore.


 
Last edited:

gatti-man

Member
The forced hype about the painfully middling performance of this movie is just laughable:



Hooray for the 20th highest grossing MCU movie 🎊 International numbers are atrocious with a 60/40 split. Black Widow made 370mio and was considered a failure. This movie will perform just slightly better, but considering that it needs at least 500mio to break even, this is not the success story that the media shills or Marvel fanboys make it out to be:



It’s a huge success. You don’t go comparing shang chi to iron man or the avengers movies or Thor. Shang chi is much more niche. On top of that it’s an Asian lead Kung fu movie that had no stars in it what so ever . Those don’t exactly do well and it had no direct ties to any prior film. Shang chi had alot going against it so yeah it’s a success. Honestly a wild success as a starting point after black widow floundered given every opportunity to do well.
 
Last edited:
It’s a huge success. You don’t go comparing shang chi to iron man or the avengers movies or Thor. Shang chi is much more niche. On top of that it’s an Asian lead Kung fu movie that had no stars in it what so ever . Those don’t exactly do well and it had no direct ties to any prior film. Shang chi had alot going against it so yeah it’s a success. Honestly a wild success as a starting point after black widow floundered given every opportunity to do well.
Lowered expectations indeed. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon did $213M on a $17M budget way back. This movie, like Black Widow bombed. The fact is that both movies performed worse than F9 and Godzilla v KK (even when subtracting the China gross) when more theatres are opened and vaccination rates are higher.
 

sol_bad

Member
Lowered expectations indeed. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon did $213M on a $17M budget way back. This movie, like Black Widow bombed. The fact is that both movies performed worse than F9 and Godzilla v KK (even when subtracting the China gross) when more theatres are opened and vaccination rates are higher.

How about you give Shang Chi at least 2 more weekends first and let the film finish it's theatrical release first. Australia and New Zealand might open up again in October and that could add another 10-15 million to the box office. You are wrong about Godzilla vs Kong though, it made $279 million without the Chinese box office.

Technically, every film released during COVID has been a box office failure except for Black Widow, shang Chi and Fast 9, along with Free Guy, Conjuring 3 and A Quiet Place 2 because they had low production costs. The celebration is that box office numbers are slowing increasing again and the industry is on it's way to recovery.

The only people trying to scream at the top of their lungs that these films are a failure are the Disney/Marvel haters (who stay quiet about every other film including Suicide Squad) and the weirdos who want to stay at home and watch films without going into the real world.
 

nush

Gold Member

strange headache

Fluctuat nec mergitur

Those Asians don't count, we all know Simu was the...




strange headache strange headache When you think you've reached the low bar of stanning and ignorance, someone digs a trench to put the bar in.

I find the simping for this movie absolutely funny.

Holding the protagonist's race against the movie's success is some low key racialized thinking. After Jet Li, Jackie Chan an Bruce Lee, Tony Jaa, Chow Yun-fat, do people really still think that people won't go watch a movie because the lead is Asian? GTFO out this crap!

I never thought anybody would be so dense and describe a Marvel movie as "niche", but I'm glad they've finally admitted that nobody really gives a damn about those C-tier hero characters.
But what can you do against the Marvel hype industry, that is largely fueled by shill media and blind fanboyism? I wouldn't care so much, were it not for the fact that decent movies like Dune get sidelined because people have been conditioned to rather watch that crap.
 
Last edited:

Ulysses 31

Member
11 hours? These things get longer and longer. I cannot fathom wanting to watch this.
They're usually half that about the movies themselves, they play games for the last half/third usually. Often they mess around at the beginning and only really start till 42 min in this case.

For this movie they describe what happens in the movie, chronologically, to someone who hasn't watched it and a lot of silliness in the writing is exposed that way. :lollipop_grinning:

Marvel's worldbuilding is a mess these days.
 
Last edited:

Ulysses 31

Member
Wouldn't you prefer to watch it yourself since it would take less time and you could form your own opinion?
If I had an interest in seeing the movie yes but I'm struck with Marvel fatigue and this is how I consume Marvel stuff these days. It's not all doom and gloom with these guys, their counter critique of an Underwater movie video made me check out that movie and I was pleasantly surprised how decent that one was.
 

DKehoe

Member
They're usually half that about the movies themselves, they play games for the last half/third usually. Often they mess around at the beginning and only really start till 42 min in this case.

For this movie they describe what happens in the movie, chronologically, to someone who hasn't watched it and a lot of silliness in the writing is exposed that way. :lollipop_grinning:

Marvel's worldbuilding is a mess these days.
So they're still spending something like 5 hours discussing the movie? Sounds fucking awful. And that's not a defence of Shang-Chi. They're welcome to like it or not. But spending hours nit-picking every minor plot detail sounds mind-numbing. Film criticism has gone down the toilet.
 
Last edited:

Ulysses 31

Member
So they're still spending something like 5 hours discussing the movie? Sounds fucking awful. And that's not a defence of Shang-Chi. They're welcome to like it or not.
Story setups, connective tissue between scenes, world building, character motivations, character development, writing (in)consistency, themes, these are things one can go in depth in.
But spending hours nit-picking every minor plot detail sounds mind-numbing.
Is there some rule that critiques can't be longer than the movies themselves? They do nit-pick but they mostly focus on things that affect the plot(non nit-picks)
Film criticism has gone down the toilet.
Writing has gone downhill too.
 
Last edited:

sol_bad

Member
If I had an interest in seeing the movie yes but I'm struck with Marvel fatigue and this is how I consume Marvel stuff these days. It's not all doom and gloom with these guys, their counter critique of an Underwater movie video made me check out that movie and I was pleasantly surprised how decent that one was.

Marvel fatigue but you'll watch a 5 hour video about a Marvel movie ....... OK.
You are being exposed to Marvel more by watching these videos than you would by watching it yourself.

And yeah, Underwater is an OKish decent film, I discovered that by watching the film at the cinemas. Definitely not better than anything Marvel related or Alien Covenant but if it got a sequel I'd watch it. Won't happen though because no one supported it at the theatres and it failed miserably.

*EDIT*
And these guys nit pick things that they'd consider illogical by creating their own illogical ideas.
 
Last edited:

Ulysses 31

Member
Marvel fatigue but you'll watch a 5 hour video about a Marvel movie ....... OK.
You are being exposed to Marvel more by watching these videos than you would by watching it yourself.
Their commentaries on the "modern Marvel formula" as they see it I find interesting and funny most of the time yes.
And these guys nit pick things that they'd consider illogical by creating their own illogical ideas.
Got an example?
 

DKehoe

Member
Story setups, world building, character motivations, character development, writing (in)consistency, themes, these are things one can go in depth in.
I jumped to a part randomly to see what kind of things they were saying in case their approach had changed from what I had previously heard. One of them was talking about how the bow someone was using shouldn't be able to shoot the distance it does. Whenever I hear film criticism from YouTubers like these I always think of this



Is there some rule that critiques can't be longer than the movies themselves? They do nit-pick but they mostly focus on things that affect the plot(non nit-picks)
No, it can be as long as it needs to be. But when you take hours and you aren't even (in my opinion) being particularly insightful then you're just wasting my time. When I've seen this stuff it's always just focused on plot in a "why didn't they just..." sense. Things like music, costuming, lighting and shot composition are also important parts of a film but I don't hear them talk about those. So if you're going to take that long at least be comprehensive. Again, I'm not going to watch a 5+ hour review in full so maybe they do sometimes touch on those aspects. But clearly their focus is very much on plot and particularly on pointing out plotholes.

Writing has gone downhill too.
If that's true then surely good film criticism is more important than ever. I've seen a few people make this point before but at some point "why didn't the eagles just take the ring to Mordor" went from being a joke to the primary way some people look at films.

I guess it's meant to sort of have the feel of you and your buddies shooting the shit and is something you can stick on in the background while working, playing games or whatever. Which is fine and clearly it has an audience. But I don't get it being presented like it's particularly insightful.
 

Ulysses 31

Member
I jumped to a part randomly to see what kind of things they were saying in case their approach had changed from what I had previously heard. One of them was talking about how the bow someone was using shouldn't be able to shoot the distance it does. Whenever I hear film criticism from YouTubers like these I always think of this

It's character without superpowers doing it so I think it's a noteworthy criticism. Shadiversity has a channel about medieval weaponry and usually does know what he's talking about when when it comes to the "ease of use" of these weapons.
No, it can be as long as it needs to be. But when you take hours and you aren't even (in my opinion) being particularly insightful then you're just wasting my time. When I've seen this stuff it's always just focused on plot in a "why didn't they just..." sense.
You've not watched it entirely so you're in no position to say if they were being insightful or not. If 5 hours is too long for you, fair enough, but already dismissing their criticisms is pre-judging on your part.
Things like music, costuming, lighting and shot composition are also important parts of a film but I don't hear them talk about those. So if you're going to take that long at least be comprehensive. Again, I'm not going to watch a 5+ hour review in full so maybe they do sometimes touch on those aspects.
In this case they didn't have the movie playing so it can be "more forgiven" that they don't describe scenes with all those things lest the stream time would double.
But clearly their focus is very much on plot and particularly on pointing out plotholes.
They consider the writing(and world building?) as one of the most important things in movies so yeah a lot of their criticisms is about inconsistencies and vagueness in that area. I agree with them that movies can have fantastic production values but if the writing is lacking, it can easily drag a movie down.
If that's true then surely good film criticism is more important than ever. I've seen a few people make this point before but at some point "why didn't the eagles just take the ring to Mordor" went from being a joke to the primary way some people look at films.
I've heard them tackle that specific one with a line that's in the movie and that the book had more detailed lore reasons(but if it's not in the movie it should be disregarded is their stance). Again, you've not watched even half of their break down to judge it as good or bad criticism. If you just don't like their "style" or personalities, fair enough.
I guess it's meant to sort of have the feel of you and your buddies shooting the shit and is something you can stick on in the background while working, playing games or whatever. Which is fine and clearly it has an audience.
That is kinda what it is but IMO they bring up reasonable questions that come with modern day movie/Hollywood writing.
But I don't get it being presented like it's particularly insightful.
I only present it as reasons why someone might think the story doesn't hold up to scrutiny(especially with other established things in the Marvel universe). Whether that should affect your enjoyment is a personal matter.

If you're the kind of person not in habit of giving it much thought and move on to other movies, that's fine. (y)
 
Last edited:

DKehoe

Member
It's character without superpowers doing it so I think it's a noteworthy criticism. Shadiversity has a channel about medieval weaponry and usually does know what he's talking about when when it comes to the "ease of use" of these weapons.

You've not watched it entirely so you're in no position to say if they were being insightful or not. If 5 hours is too long for you, fair enough, but already dismissing their criticisms is pre-judging on your part.

In this case they didn't have the movie playing so it can be "more forgiven" that they don't describe scenes with all those things lest the stream time would double.

They consider the writing(and world building?) as one of the most important things in movies so yeah a lot of their criticisms is about inconsistencies and vagueness in that area. I agree with them that movies can have fantastic production values but if the writing is lacking, it can easily drag a movie down.

I've heard them tackle that specific one with a line that's in the movie and that the book had more detailed lore reasons(but if it's not in the movie it should be disregarded is their stance). Again, you've not watched even half of their break down to judge it as good or bad criticism. If you just don't like their "style" or personalities, fair enough.

That is kinda what it is but IMO they bring up reasonable questions that come with modern day movie/Hollywood writing.

I only present it as reasons why someone might think the story doesn't hold up to scrutiny(especially with other established things in the Marvel universe). Whether that affects your enjoyment is a personal matter.

If you're the kind of person not in habit of giving it much thought and move on to other movies, that's fine. (y)
I wouldn't say I'm "the kind of person not in habit of giving it much thought." I think we are just looking for different things. So let's just agree to disagree.
 

BlackTron

Member
I love Marvel and I love martial arts movies so this was a no-brainer. It was pretty good, but that's it. It wasn't nearly as good as I expected from all the hype and impressions, and I probably could have just waited till it hit Disney+.

It's a movie that's fun to watch, it's visually pleasing even if the CGI was a bit too heavy. It started to feel like watching a long game cutscene. The story is pretty formulaic and it really relied on the speed and intensity of its action sequences. It's the kind of movie I wouldn't watch again start to finish, but if someone else had it on the TV I would be distracted to catch a few action scenes. Overall, not bad but not great either. I expected a bit more of a "special hook" from Marvel...without it, these movies begin to feel like palette swaps.
 

FireFly

Member
He goes from being an ok fighter, who then takes like 1 fighting lesson from his aunt and then literally a few minutes later goes on to fight and destroy not only
his dad who is this 1000 year old actual bad ass with super powers. But then defeats this ancient thousands year old demon who just took his fathers soul
He's a trained assassin who his father said his entire team wouldn't be able to kill. I mean just look at the whole bus scene. The being able to overcome his father and the dragon, I think comes from him having his mother's blood, who was from Ta Lo. It's kind of like Peter Quill being half celestial. You can see the rings turn a different colour when he uses them, and the final explosion alerts Kamar-Taj seemingly for the first time in the history of their use on the Earth.

I take the training scene, as him realising he needs to embrace his mother's side, which unlocks the powers from Ta Lo. That also explains why he doesn't drown and how is able to control the dragon.
 
Last edited:

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
I jumped to a part randomly to see what kind of things they were saying in case their approach had changed from what I had previously heard. One of them was talking about how the bow someone was using shouldn't be able to shoot the distance it does. Whenever I hear film criticism from YouTubers like these I always think of this




No, it can be as long as it needs to be. But when you take hours and you aren't even (in my opinion) being particularly insightful then you're just wasting my time. When I've seen this stuff it's always just focused on plot in a "why didn't they just..." sense. Things like music, costuming, lighting and shot composition are also important parts of a film but I don't hear them talk about those. So if you're going to take that long at least be comprehensive. Again, I'm not going to watch a 5+ hour review in full so maybe they do sometimes touch on those aspects. But clearly their focus is very much on plot and particularly on pointing out plotholes.


If that's true then surely good film criticism is more important than ever. I've seen a few people make this point before but at some point "why didn't the eagles just take the ring to Mordor" went from being a joke to the primary way some people look at films.

I guess it's meant to sort of have the feel of you and your buddies shooting the shit and is something you can stick on in the background while working, playing games or whatever. Which is fine and clearly it has an audience. But I don't get it being presented like it's particularly insightful.

The Geek Buddies movie and show reviews are a delight ... I may disagree with them on some points in a movie or show but at least they make it known it's JUST their opinions... Most reviewers don't. Even though, logically, the reader/audience SHOULD know that.
 

Shouta

Member
Marvel fatigue but you'll watch a 5 hour video about a Marvel movie ....... OK.
You are being exposed to Marvel more by watching these videos than you would by watching it yourself.

And yeah, Underwater is an OKish decent film, I discovered that by watching the film at the cinemas. Definitely not better than anything Marvel related or Alien Covenant but if it got a sequel I'd watch it. Won't happen though because no one supported it at the theatres and it failed miserably.

*EDIT*
And these guys nit pick things that they'd consider illogical by creating their own illogical ideas.

Yeah, pretty much. I skimmed the video and it's nitpicking by inserting weird ideas into it. I mean, they don't even understand the villain's plan and motivations early into the film. I had to laugh a little bit at them not knowing the word mandarin isn't actually Chinese in origin (think Japan in English but Nihon to the people there). That's part of why I got a chuckle about the orange (mandarin) chicken reference Wenwu made in the film. They knocked the film for not doing research when they didn't do it either, heh.
 
Last edited:

DKehoe

Member
The Geek Buddies movie and show reviews are a delight ... I may disagree with them on some points in a movie or show but at least they make it known it's JUST their opinions... Most reviewers don't. Even though, logically, the reader/audience SHOULD know that.
I think I'm just kinda done with "geek media" shows. They have too narrow a focus and also I've found that so much of the conversation around stuff like the MCU has just become about spotting references and speculating how that might link up to the next instalment in the franchise.
 
Top Bottom