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She cried rape, he went to prison for 6 years. She met up with him years later...

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is he allowed to rape her now and get away with it because of double jeopardy?

Only if he ha a time-machine and went back in time to rape her during the alleged rape.

You probably didn't mean it this way, but it kinda sounds like he should rape her just because she falsely accused him of that.
I hope no one is thinking that she in any way deserves to be raped.
 
There are people who defend thie women?

She destroyed the life of a person for money. That's like a sadistic form of murder with robbery.
 

ZAK

Member
She falsely accused someone of rape. The phrase "crying rape" is a loaded term. It can be, and is, used against rape survivors who come forward to silence them or diminish the severity of their accusation.
I'm sorry, but I don't understand your point at all. Saying that rape survivors "falsely accused someone of rape" has the exact same effect. Meanwhile, we're not talking about any rape survivors here, we're talking about someone who actually did lie.

Rape culture is about the ways in which all of us contribute to the normalization of sexual violence against women (and men). That does not mean that you or I support rape. What it means is that we were born into a culture where women are undervalued, where their control over their own bodies is limited, and where violence against women is underreported, excused, and often encouraged. The phrase 'rape culture' is used to raise our collective awareness of the fact that we have been born into this culture so that we can actively and collectively challenge it. When we use phrases like "she cried rape", even when we are legitimately angry about false accusations, we perpetuate the usage of language that diminishes all rape accusations.
To repeat myself, you can't blame anybody for describing something which actually happened. Facts are facts, and if your cause requires people to ignore them, you're doing something very wrong. I think the one to blame here is the woman who REALLY DID LIE ABOUT BEING RAPED. She is the one making actual victims' claims less believable.

As for the line about jokes, I have to assume that since it came from a college website, the context has to do with classroom/workplace environments wherein sexually explicit jokes can create an environment conducive to sexual harassment. You can still be a feminist and make sex jokes.
Well, I certainly hope that is the case, because I'm sure you see how ridiculous it looks out of context.

In the context of this thread, everyone is pretty focused on the woman's false accusation. If you're speaking more broadly, I don't know what you are referring to.
Everyone's probably focused on it because that's what happened. If you want to talk about how this shouldn't be exaggerated and doesn't happen often at all (big shock, that's what makes it news), then provide some facts or data that supports that and you'll have done a good thing. Beyond that, there's nothing wrong with discussing an event that actually, really happened. More broadly, it's hard to think of specific examples besides the dirty joke -> rape culture thing. To put it generally, even in this thread, you see people acting as if decreasing rape is literally the most important thing in the world, and seems to be the only thing they think about or consider. This extreme attitude is polarizing and unhelpful; it makes people take the cause of reducing rape less seriously. Take this story, for instance. It seems like some people practically wish we weren't talking about it at all, that it never saw the light of day, and no one knew about it. I am even willing to believe that, if that were the case, future rape would diminish very very slightly. But at the same time, the story's a matter of fact, and should not be censored or buried in any way. No fact should.

Edit: Another example is this "cry rape" thing. I'm under the assumption that I still don't properly understand it, though.
 
This is the most terrible of logic:

Don't prosecute <crime>. If you prosecute <crime> people who commit <crime> and get away with it will be less likely to confess.
I think its a far worse injustice to charge the wrong person for a crime they didn't commit than to miss the chance to prosecute the right person.
 

Atrus

Gold Member
I think you can rape someone twice, and so on. You can't kill her twice though.

To clarify, you cannot be sentenced twice for the same incident however, you can still be sentenced if you killed someone who you were sentenced for having killed.

Depending on how well versed in logic and law, it's both an easy and complicated affair but suffice it to say that criminal law generally doesn't accept individuals running around and killing people, even if they're supposed to be dead.
 

akira28

Member
It would be better to just impress upon the people making the accusations at the time, that false accusations are not legal. If they press with making a false claim, they're willfully engaging in a criminal act.

Now tell me, would a rape victim who is afraid of not being able to prove their case still see that as potential reason to quit? It doesn't say if they are ruled against by the court, they go to jail, it just warns them that to go forward with a lie would be criminal. They could stop right there, with no consequence, but if they go forward with a false claim, they would be pretty stone cold to do it.

I guess in word vs word cases without evidence, it might complicate things, but even then how would they prove one party the liar or not? The accuser wouldn't be in danger really, so why wouldn't they go forward with the claim if they were telling the truth? In that context, I don't see the logic of not prosecuting false accusations as a crime.
 
I'm sorry, but I don't understand your point at all. Saying that rape survivors "falsely accused someone of rape" has the exact same effect. Meanwhile, we're not talking about any rape survivors here, we're talking about someone who actually did lie.

To repeat myself, you can't blame anybody for describing something which actually happened. Facts are facts, and if your cause requires people to ignore them, you're doing something very wrong. I think the one to blame here is the woman who REALLY DID LIE ABOUT BEING RAPED. She is the one making actual victims' claims less believable.

I'll do my best to clarify. No one is suggesting we ignore what was done. I am pointing out that there is a difference between saying, "she falsely accused him of rape" and "she cried rape". The former is a matter of fact statement. The latter is an incendiary and loaded comment. It's something that can be used against women regardless of whether or not they are telling the truth. It also creates the impression that false rape reports are common, when in reality rapes are underreported.

More broadly, it's hard to think of specific examples besides the dirty joke -> rape culture thing. To put it generally, even in this thread, you see people acting as if decreasing rape is literally the most important thing in the world, and seems to be the only thing they think about or consider. This extreme attitude is polarizing and unhelpful; it makes people take the cause of reducing rape less seriously.

Where? Also, is it bad for someone to make combating rape the issue that is most important to them? Also, who is taking the cause of reducing rape less seriously as a result? Wouldn't that individual be the one with the serious problem and not the person passionately trying to challenge rape culture?
 

Sanjay

Member
Only if he ha a time-machine and went back in time to rape her during the alleged rape.

You probably didn't mean it this way, but it kinda sounds like he should rape her just because she falsely accused him of that.
I hope no one is thinking that she in any way deserves to be raped.

You do the time, you do the crime.
 
Only if he ha a time-machine and went back in time to rape her during the alleged rape.

You probably didn't mean it this way, but it kinda sounds like he should rape her just because she falsely accused him of that.
I hope no one is thinking that she in any way deserves to be raped.

it was a joke. I am not condoning that he go and rape her again.
 
I'll do my best to clarify. No one is suggesting we ignore what was done. I am pointing out that there is a difference between saying, "she falsely accused him of rape" and "she cried rape". The former is a matter of fact statement. The latter is an incendiary and loaded comment. It's something that can be used against women regardless of whether or not they are telling the truth. It also creates the impression that false rape reports are common, when in reality rapes are underreported

Just because rapes may be under reported doesn't false rape reports aren't common
 

tirminyl

Member
Feel so bad for that dude. I have a family member that was accused of rape because the woman was cheating on her husband and didn't want her husband to find out. She skipped out on the court case and he got rail roaded. Been in jail for like 10+ years now.
 

Mumei

Member
I'm sorry, but I don't understand your point at all. Saying that rape survivors "falsely accused someone of rape" has the exact same effect. Meanwhile, we're not talking about any rape survivors here, we're talking about someone who actually did lie.

It doesn't.

"Cry rape" is a loaded in a way that "She made a false accusation of rape" is not. I know you think that because they mean the same thing, there's no difference, but that is not accurate.

Sometimes because of the way language is used in popular discourse, it takes on social connotations that are not actually present in the strict meaning of the words. Another example might be the phrase "you people"; someone who wasn't aware of American culture and how the phrase is often used might use the phrase "you people" towards a group of black people, meaning it quite innocently, without realizing how their comment that follows might be viewed as being applied to all black people, rather than just that specific group.

"Cry rape" isn't quite the same (and someone can probably think of a far better example than that), but because of the long-term association with accusing actual rape victims of "crying rape," it is a more loaded term than "making a false accusation of rape." There is a conception that some people have about rape where they conceive of rape accusations like this: "Girl decides to go party. Girl drinks too much and sleeps with a guy. Girl regrets it in the morning. Girl cries rape." You can see examples of this sort of rape culture in the OP article here, where rather than admitting that their school has a problem with sexual assault, they instead choose to place all responsibility on the girls making the accusation, accuse them of actually being sluts who are crying rape, and place more emphasis on protecting the accused than getting justice for the victim. It's an almost textbook example of rape culture in action and the way that rape culture facilitates rape, if you're having trouble conceptualizing this.

To put it generally, even in this thread, you see people acting as if decreasing rape is literally the most important thing in the world, and seems to be the only thing they think about or consider. This extreme attitude is polarizing and unhelpful; it makes people take the cause of reducing rape less seriously.

In what world are you living that decreasing rape isn't one of the most important things, and in what world are you living that you consider that position "extreme," "polarizing," and "unhelpful." Would it be more helpful if we considered it "sort of important, but not really a priority"?

I'm not really sure you thought this through when you said it.
 

marrec

Banned
Male-prison GAF threads are full of people saying being raped in prison is just "bonus" punishment.

And those are equally despicable statements and isn't an argument advocating the raping of anyone.

"Cry rape" is like "cry wolf."

It is exactly what this turd did and its usage is appropriate in this specific context.

The problem, as I understand it, is that to say a woman 'Cried Rape' is to not only associate women with the act of crying, but also to demean the accusation of rape itself. It is, as many have already pointed out, loaded language. Women 'cry rape' when they are either 'sluts' or just 'looking for attention'. If we were to say that she falsely accused someone of rape then it's clear the legal proceedings have already taken place and she has eventually proven herself a liar. It's not biased at all and actually describes what happened in this context. In fact, a more accurate description would be 'Woman falsely accuses man of rape who is then wrongly convicted'.
 
I thought you were going to argue for raping a girl, not making baseless statements not rooted in any kind of facts.

Come on son.

my point is to you baseless (i have plenty of my own anecdotal evidence) however it is responding to a similar baseless point used by kame-sennin
 

marrec

Banned
my point is to you baseless (i have plenty of my own anecdotal evidence) however it is responding to a similar baseless point used by kame-sennin

Plenty of anecdotal evidence is still anecdotal. All it seems to have done is create a bias in you against women who accuse men of Rape.
 

Onemic

Member
If someone can expalin, I don't exactly understand the logic of not prosecuting those that lie about being raped, as it may prevent real rape victims from coming forward. If such a law was enacted I would assume there would be a big difference between having inconclusive evidence to convict which does not equate to a lie, and someone confessing, or from evidence presented showing conspiracy that they were in fact lying due to whatever circumstance. A woman who was raped would still be able to come forward without risk of persecution as they would have to prove that she was lying, rather than their just not being enough evidence available to convict. Similar to proving conspiracy to frame an individual.

Unless you're talking about those that lie about being raped being much less likely to confess, thus screwing over those that are wrongly convicted even more.
 

Mumei

Member

akira28

Member
I wonder how her family feels towards her now. She's thrust them right into the thick of this. Apparently they received and spent some of the money. Plus I'm sure people in their social circles knew and comforted them, offered condolences.

Unless you're talking about those that lie about being raped being much less likely to confess, thus screwing over those that are wrongly convicted even more.

The idea is that it would prevent a lot of those false accusations from actually making it to court, since it's no just a "harmless" lie created out of regret and shame. The other idea is it might highlight the weakness of the justice system or limitations in police investigation, where people CAN lie and people do go to prison based on less than great evidence. And if you were unlucky enough to go to jail on false accounts, you have no chance in heaven of a confession being made to clear your name. But I think that obstacle at the front door would stop anyone except the most determined accusers who wanted to see someone go to jail. She didn't want to put him in jail, she just didn't want to be responsible for her sexual choices.
 
He did not say that because rapes are underreported, false rape reports are low. He was merely differentiating between the myth (false rape reports happen often) and the reality (rapes are underreported).

He could have also mentioned, though, that false rape reports are indeed low.

again though there is no actual evidence that false reports happening often is a myth, its just opinion, oh and that wikipedia link does nothing to help your case as all it does is site studies that again are based on opinion
 

marrec

Banned
If someone can expalin, I don't exactly understand the logic of not prosecuting those that lie about being raped, as it may prevent real rape victims from coming forward. If such a law was enacted I would assume there would be a big difference between having inconclusive evidence to convict which does not equate to a lie, and someone confessing, or from evidence presented showing conspiracy that they were in fact lying due to whatever circumstance. A woman who was raped would still be able to come forward without risk of persecution as they would have to prove that she was lying, rather than their just not being enough evidence available to convict. Similar to proving conspiracy to frame an individual.

Unless you're talking about those that lie about being raped being much less likely to confess, thus screwing over those that are wrongly convicted even more.

The point is that we don't want to create an environment that could convince a woman (or man) that coming forward would not be worth the embarrassment or potential shaming or if such a law were enacted potential counter-suit. Let me paint a scenario for you to help me explain:

A woman is raped by a man while she is drunk, she had told him multiple times that she was not wanting to have sex that night, but once she passed out he had his way with her. She wakes and realizes this, and decides to accuse him of rape. It turns out that this guy happens to be the star quarterback for whatever team. Immediately school officials (coach, principle, ect) move to defend the boy and law enforcement is loath to act on a case with such little evidence. Eventually she gets a trial but it doesn't go very far because it is a case of her word against his and everyone knows she's kind of slutty right?

So the case doesn't work in her favor, but now star quarterback kid can't get into Miami U because they don't want someone who's been accused of rape. Well star quarterback kids father will not let that go unpunished so he sues the woman for falsely accusing his son of rape.

Whether or not she is convicted is not the point, she's still been dragged through the mud and shamed and accused simply for trying to get justice done.

Do you seen now?

He did not say that because rapes are underreported, false rape reports are low. He was merely differentiating between the myth (false rape reports happen often) and the reality (rapes are underreported).

He could have also mentioned, though, that false rape reports are indeed low.

From that wiki:

This statistic is almost meaningless, as many of the jurisdictions from which the FBI collects data on crime use different definitions of, or criteria for, "unfounded." That is, a report of rape might be classified as unfounded (rather than as forcible rape) if the alleged victim did not try to fight off the suspect, if the alleged perpetrator did not use physical force or a weapon of some sort, if the alleged victim did not sustain any physical injuries, or if the alleged victim and the accused had a prior sexual relationship. Similarly, a report might be deemed unfounded if there is no physical evidence or too many inconsistencies between the accuser's statement and what evidence does exist. As such, although some unfounded cases of rape may be false or fabricated, not all unfounded cases are false.

Wow.
 
The point is that we don't want to create an environment that could convince a woman (or man) that coming forward would not be worth the embarrassment or potential shaming or if such a law were enacted potential counter-suit. Let me paint a scenario for you to help me explain:

A woman is raped by a man while she is drunk, she had told him multiple times that she was not wanting to have sex that night, but once she passed out he had his way with her. She wakes and realizes this, and decides to accuse him of rape. It turns out that this guy happens to be the star quarterback for whatever team. Immediately school officials (coach, principle, ect) move to defend the boy and law enforcement is loath to act on a case with such little evidence. Eventually she gets a trial but it doesn't go very far because it is a case of her word against his and everyone knows she's kind of slutty right?

So the case doesn't work in her favor, but now star quarterback kid can't get into Miami U because they don't want someone who's been accused of rape. Well star quarterback kids father will not let that go unpunished so he sues the woman for falsely accusing his son of rape.

Whether or not she is convicted is not the case, she's still been dragged through the mud and shamed and accused simply for trying to get justice done.

Do you seen now?

.

and thats why cases with no evidence (he said/she said) should never be prosecuted, conviction is supposed to be beyond a reasonable doubt but that just should not be possible when its one persons word against another
 

Duki

Banned
And those are equally despicable statements and isn't an argument advocating the raping of anyone.



The problem, as I understand it, is that to say a woman 'Cried Rape' is to not only associate women with the act of crying, but also to demean the accusation of rape itself. It is, as many have already pointed out, loaded language. Women 'cry rape' when they are either 'sluts' or just 'looking for attention'. If we were to say that she falsely accused someone of rape then it's clear the legal proceedings have already taken place and she has eventually proven herself a liar. It's not biased at all and actually describes what happened in this context. In fact, a more accurate description would be 'Woman falsely accuses man of rape who is then wrongly convicted'.
what if we dont ascribe to your mode of thinking doe

what if we dont accept that your social construction of the term "cry rape" is loaded

what if we think your entire social construction of the word and its usage is flawed

what if we dont use, or think of the word in the way in which you think is loaded

what if we just use it as a colloquial short hand for "false accusation of rape"

you dont get to decide what words mean brother

and hell all this talk about what words mean is self defeating as fuck. you spend more time arguing semantics than actually improving anything for anyone. youre ascribing words too much power.

and it also ruins threads imo, because you get people arguing about nothing
 

Mumei

Member
again though there is no actual evidence that false reports happening often is a myth, its just opinion, oh and that wikipedia link does nothing to help your case as all it does is site studies that again are based on opinion

... But my opinion is supported by the facts and your opinion isn't.

So you should change your opinion.
 
I think Dev would have better arguments, actually. Not sure she and marrec would be on the same page.

She'd just insult whoever she disagreed with and attempt to block all meaningful conversation. Unfortunate but true.

I hope this guy can resume life successfully after all he lost. And he lost a lot.
 

Zhengi

Member
Wow, poor guy. I'm definitely glad that they got his name cleared and hopefully he can continue on with his life.
 

Ponn

Banned
Those sex contracts from the Chapelle show would help alot of these cases. They can include mini ones in each condom and make wallet sized ones.

I'm serious, this is where we are at.
 

marrec

Banned
and thats why cases with no evidence (he said/she said) should never be prosecuted, conviction is supposed to be beyond a reasonable doubt but that just should not be possible when its one persons word against another

So she's left to be victimized then?

what if we dont ascribe to your mode of thinking doe

what if we dont accept that your social construction of the term "cry rape" is loaded

what if we think your entire social construction of the word and its usage is flawed

what if we dont use, or think of the word in the way in which you think is loaded

what if we just use it as a colloquial short hand for "false accusation of rape"

you dont get to decide what words mean brother

and hell all this talk about what words mean is self defeating as fuck. you spend more time arguing semantics than actually improving anything for anyone. youre ascribing words too much power.

and it also ruins threads imo, because you get people arguing about nothing

Language is very important my friend and how we use it loads conversations before they even start. You may not be consciously aware of it, but yes cry rape is loaded. Denying it doesn't make it not true.
 

Mumei

Member
what if we dont ascribe to your mode of thinking doe

what if we dont accept that your social construction of the term "cry rape" is loaded

what if we think your entire social construction of the word and its usage is flawed

what if we dont use, or think of the word in the way in which you think is loaded

what if we just use it as a colloquial short hand for "false accusation of rape"

you dont get to decide what words mean brother

and hell all this talk about what words mean is self defeating as fuck. you spend more time arguing semantics than actually improving anything for anyone. youre ascribing words too much power.

We aren't being proscriptive when we talk about the meaning of the words; we are being descriptive.

and it also ruins threads imo, because you get people arguing about nothing

Well, you could just agree with us instead of arguing.
 

marrec

Banned
Those sex contracts from the Chapelle show would help alot of these cases. They can include mini ones in each condom and make wallet sized ones.

I'm serious, this is where we are at.

No it isn't because false accusations of rape of extremely rare.
 

akira28

Member
...quarterback for whatever team. Immediately school officials (coach, principle, ect) move to defend the boy and law enforcement is loath to act on a case with such little evidence. Eventually she gets a trial but it doesn't go very far because it is a case of her word against his and everyone knows she's kind of slutty right?

So the case doesn't work in her favor, but now star quarterback kid can't get into Miami U because they don't want someone who's been accused of rape. Well star quarterback kids father will not let that go unpunished so he sues the woman for falsely accusing his son of rape.

If we stop those two points there, then there is no issue. The problem is we don't attack the bias, and we let the "game" play out. Authorities should do full investigation and prosecute based on any evidence they have. If it's just his word against hers about consent, and proof that she was in fact drunk, and they did in fact have sex, then go on that. If she says that she said no, and he continued while she was incapacitated, that's rape. Her sexual history shouldn't affect that claim. If she's free and open with her sexuality, then why would she suddenly feel enough remorse and shame to make a false claim against this football player. The slut-shaming part doesn't really fit except to assume that if she's sexual then she could also be a liar. But it doesn't make logical sense. If she has sex when she wants to, then wouldn't she only claim rape when she was forced to have sex when she didn't want to?

No it isn't because false accusations of rape of extremely rare.
I'm not so sure that's true. Maybe in comparison to truthful accusations, but in and of themselves, I'm not so sure.

She'd just insult whoever she disagreed with and attempt to block all meaningful conversation. Unfortunate but true.

Can you indicate on the doll, for the court, where it was she hurt you?
 

-PXG-

Member
Lock the bitch up for six years. Give the dude the 1.5 mil. Eye for an eye. One of the few cases where it actually works.
 
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