IDappa
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Shinobi602 on the "lack" of First Party reveals by PlayStation: "I think some still haven't really grasped just how long big games take to make now"
- Thread starter Lunatic_Gamer
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- Opinion News Drama
IDappa
Member
Thanks for the breakdown buddy. Makes more sense.
Bernardougf
Gold Member
And thats a problem.... the way the studios are taking this things it will become unsustainable.
Time for aim for smaller games, less budget, concentrating in great ideas and game play.
One game / gen from studios is ridiculous.
Everything dosent need to be cinematic, expensive and take 60 hours to complete.
Time for some balance... everyone would benefit
Time for aim for smaller games, less budget, concentrating in great ideas and game play.
One game / gen from studios is ridiculous.
Everything dosent need to be cinematic, expensive and take 60 hours to complete.
Time for some balance... everyone would benefit
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Sanepar
Member
I think the biggest problem when a Game is made by a 2nd party studio is the risky for a sequel. The studio can be bought by other company or may want to do something else or go 3rd party.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Yah I have no idea why some people want to lie about that. Nintendo released the following last and this year alone
- Fire Emblem Engage
- Kirty's Return to Dreamland Deluxe
- Metroid Prime Remastered
- Advance Wars 1+2 Re-Boot Camp
- The Legend of Zelda Tears of the Kingdom
- Pikmin 1+2
- Pikmin 4
- Super Mario Bros Wonder
- Super Mario RPG
- Everybody 1-2 Switch
- Detective Pikachu Returns
- Super Mario RPG
- Princess Peach
- Paper Mario The Thousand Stars
- Endless Ocean Luminous
- Luigi's Mansion 2 HD
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Nintendo are Legends
MiguelItUp
Member
Yeah, honestly, it's impressive that Nintendo just maintains their course.
Johnny Concrete
Member
It’s true, but becoming quite ridiculous now. We’re at a point where they’ll have to decide which studio makes a game for which console generation.
Naughty Dog released 2 games for PS4, probably releases 1 for PS5 and then skips PS6 to release 1 for PS7.
Some game directors might only make 2/3 titles in their career now.
Not sustainable.
Naughty Dog released 2 games for PS4, probably releases 1 for PS5 and then skips PS6 to release 1 for PS7.
Some game directors might only make 2/3 titles in their career now.
Not sustainable.
vaibhavpisal
Member
Gamepass offers exactly this.
People keep ignoring it while clamouring for smaller, more experimental games.
feynoob
Gold Member
Gamepass preachersGamepass offers exactly this.
People keep ignoring it while clamouring for smaller, more experimental games.
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
I’d be happy to play cool AA games with 2007 production values. But too bad, Sony needs big blockbuster AAA games to justify PS5’s existence.
rhodesianshepard
Member
Bend Studio was support studio for GOWR. They didn't start work on new IP until 2022. So its going to be a while
Small AAA games are the type of games that are unsustainable. Gamers dont buy them. That is why smaller AAA studios like Tango Games are getting shutdown. The big budget AAA games tied to popular IP are the ones getting greenlit. And there still is a lot of money to be made, even with the skyrocketing costs. It's a little harder for Playstation because they only release Day1 on one platform, but for them, game development is only a fraction of their overall Playstation ecosystem.
Hopefully AI speeds up the development process in the near future, but gaming overall is still in a good place. Even with longer development times, there are still plenty of AAA studios pumping out games on a regular basis. It seems like every month there are 1-2 good AAA games releasing. As a gamer, I don't mind extra development time if it leads to better games. Give studios like Naughty Dog, Sucker Punch, and Rockstar all the time they need to fulfill their vision
yurinka
Member
Yes, AAA games take nowadays 5-9 years to be made. People must understand this and be patient.
If they want games, they can buy the recent ones like Spider-Man 2, FFVII Rebirth, Granblue Fantasy Relink, TLOU2 Rebirth, Helldivers 2, Stellar Blade, MLB, Rise of the Ronin, etc.
If they want games, they can buy the recent ones like Spider-Man 2, FFVII Rebirth, Granblue Fantasy Relink, TLOU2 Rebirth, Helldivers 2, Stellar Blade, MLB, Rise of the Ronin, etc.
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
this gen truly broke the system. but instead of blaming covid or GenZ, Herman said that they need to revaluate how play station operates in order to satisfy consumer's expectations for AAA single player games and Men_In_Boxes's Games.
which is good news because the amount of jobs a AAA game generates is huge and they are what truly sustains the industry.
... Sony hasn't had a proper showcase like how fans are waiting in basically 2 years. but one think is for certain: Sony always delivers.
which is good news because the amount of jobs a AAA game generates is huge and they are what truly sustains the industry.
... Sony hasn't had a proper showcase like how fans are waiting in basically 2 years. but one think is for certain: Sony always delivers.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Oh boohoo. This corporate bootliicker is always out there making excuses for these big publishers. They are more profitable than ever before. They charge more than ever before. They don’t have an excuse to be MIA. No e3 showcase in 4 of the last 6 years since 2019 when they first missed e3. Simply unacceptable. Giving us shitty state of plays as an apology doesn’t count.
And they should’ve known that making games took 4-5 years back in 2017 and 2018 when hfw, ragnorak and gt7 were green lit. Those 3 games came and went and no one looks back to say ok at least they delivered early in gen because no one cares about last Gen games at 60 fps. People are still waiting for the first true next Gen game from those studios.
And they should’ve known that making games took 4-5 years back in 2017 and 2018 when hfw, ragnorak and gt7 were green lit. Those 3 games came and went and no one looks back to say ok at least they delivered early in gen because no one cares about last Gen games at 60 fps. People are still waiting for the first true next Gen game from those studios.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Given they’re been releasing games every single year, they know what they’re doing.
You’re just not getting a glimpse of games far out like you used to
vaibhavpisal
Member
It has its pros and cons.Gamepass preachers
The one I mentioned is a pro.
Else feel free to keep waiting for games, they will be safe and will come soon.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Sonys big differentiator was the big cinematic masterpiece.
As soon as uncharted 2 released, that is what they wanted to push for.
Unfortunately, they let naughty dog create the DNA of what a sony game should be...and the industry had no choice but to push for that unrealistic bar. The fans and industry reviewers etc set the standard that all other games must reach that level quality. A bad texture on a surface will be called out and circled around the Internet to attack other developers works Especially of it was on a competing platform. It's human nature really and you could say that no one really knew how self destructive this would be.
We now have 500 million dollar budgets, mocap, millions of lines of dialogue and acting stages. Mocap studios plus more.
It's everyone's fault really, we didn't know that we were demanding something so unrealistic.
Now we won't get games for an entire generation. Naughty dog might even be lucky to get one true ND game out this one. It will probably be cross gen with ps6. Then you won't see a game until ps7...
They can't keep remastering games every gen...but I am sure they will try.
As soon as uncharted 2 released, that is what they wanted to push for.
Unfortunately, they let naughty dog create the DNA of what a sony game should be...and the industry had no choice but to push for that unrealistic bar. The fans and industry reviewers etc set the standard that all other games must reach that level quality. A bad texture on a surface will be called out and circled around the Internet to attack other developers works Especially of it was on a competing platform. It's human nature really and you could say that no one really knew how self destructive this would be.
We now have 500 million dollar budgets, mocap, millions of lines of dialogue and acting stages. Mocap studios plus more.
It's everyone's fault really, we didn't know that we were demanding something so unrealistic.
Now we won't get games for an entire generation. Naughty dog might even be lucky to get one true ND game out this one. It will probably be cross gen with ps6. Then you won't see a game until ps7...
They can't keep remastering games every gen...but I am sure they will try.
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kungfuian
Member
Personally think this is more of a Brand perception problem at this point and has more to do with changes in their marketing strategies than in the actual number of games released. The PS5 is well supported with first and 2nd party games and yet, and I can only speak for myself, I feel less engaged in the PlayStation platform than ever before as a fan.
Getting rid of the big game shows and telling us next to nothing about their projects until right before release just sucks from a fan perspective. Maybe don't show us games 3 or 4 years in advance, but give us some kind of road map of releases to get excited about. Like why can't they tell us a game is in development, or give us small little snippets of what they have cooking? Other than the rare cancellation, how does that hurt them?
Even if they didn't show us shit gameplay wise until right before release but threw us some vague announcement crumbs here and there, we would at least have something to look forward to as fans.
As it is their new marketing schedules have basically robbed us of one of the best parts of owning a PlayStation, being excited for the future. Sad that's all but gone now.
Getting rid of the big game shows and telling us next to nothing about their projects until right before release just sucks from a fan perspective. Maybe don't show us games 3 or 4 years in advance, but give us some kind of road map of releases to get excited about. Like why can't they tell us a game is in development, or give us small little snippets of what they have cooking? Other than the rare cancellation, how does that hurt them?
Even if they didn't show us shit gameplay wise until right before release but threw us some vague announcement crumbs here and there, we would at least have something to look forward to as fans.
As it is their new marketing schedules have basically robbed us of one of the best parts of owning a PlayStation, being excited for the future. Sad that's all but gone now.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
He commented on the subject in the PlayStation thread on the Woke Retarded Purple Forum, as people are worried about the lack of first party announcements from Sony, even more so after rumors that Sony will not have a big event with giant reveals in the middle of the year.
The full text:
Wolverine was announced years ago and I don't know the details of why they decided to do that so early. Could have been a Disney thing. Could have just been Insomniac wanting to hype up their fans, or for recruiting talent, or any number of reasons. Physint could just be Kojima being Kojima. He's on his own planet lol.
I don't mean there's like a mandate from up top at Sony or something, but based on convos I've had, it sounds like some teams like to have windows nailed down more concretely before announcing things. There's one that a while ago I definitely expected would show up in this upcoming event because it's been a good minute, but won't, and that's just how they prefer do things and that's fine I guess.
But I think some people in here really just want to be in perpetual hype mode lol. A bunch of their teams released big games not that long ago. Just in the last couple years, Guerrilla launched HFW which is a massive game, helped with Horizon: Call of the Mountain, HFW's PC port, are helping with something else that we'll see soon and are working on multiple big projects. Santa Monica launched GOWR like a year and a half ago. Polyphony launched GT7 two years ago. Returnal came out 3 years ago and Housemarque's game is a new IP which almost always takes longer to get up to speed. TLOU2 was four years ago and TLOU Online would have been the next big thing but we know how that went, and not because it was a bad game. Naughty Dog needs a little more time.
I think some still haven't really grasped just how long big games take to make now. I've been on a couple projects for years whose release dates I was expecting to be announced at this point or that point and they took longer because game dev is just hard. Every company has some blockbuster dry spells here and there. Nintendo's not releasing a new Zelda or Mario or Metroid every few years. They supplement with spin offs and stuff and they're good with that, but I don't think they have huge blockbusters every year. We can clearly see Xbox is definitely not averse to it either. Sometimes the way things line up - you have peaks and valleys in releases.
I personally don't think Playstation has a first party *problem*. Sure it could be better, and I understand people want to specifically know "ok, where's Sucker Punch, where's Bend, where's Santa Monica, where's Naughty Dog" - the "big" ones. A lot of 2023 was dry, but just in the last 6-7 months, they've put out Spider-Man 2, Helldivers 2, Rise of the Ronin, and Stellar Blade, all big first party games. And outside of that FF7 Rebirth just for an extra cherry on top. They're feeding you. And there's still more this year. Sony's likely pretty okay with how things are going. I'm sure they'd love to have 'big franchise games' this year, but PS5 is still doing great and I think outside of this forum, the mainstream buyer is pretty chill right now.
Like I said, there's a few big ones planned for next year on top of Death Stranding 2. Totoki confirmed that too. I don't know when they'll announce them at the moment, but I suspect there could be another event later in the year, we'll see. I'll probably hear more later.
If only they used to have small AA games that were cheaper to make and could pad the release schedules
.…
… problem is that they probably still were taking a long time to make (Japan Studio was not super hyper productive either). Hopefully they do invest a lot more in tooling and developers’ assistance to make game making far more efficient.
Lucifers Beard
Member
I've been saying this for years but they don't listen. Not everyone has time or the attention span for 50-60 or even 100 hour games. I don't mind paying £60 for a more linear game that's 10-15 hours if it's good. Value and time to beat are not necessarily as closely connected as some seem to think.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
No thx that is even worse.Gamepass offers exactly this.
People keep ignoring it while clamouring for smaller, more experimental games.
Skifi28
Gold Member
In theory. In practice not so much if the studios making these smaller and experimental games get closed anyway.Gamepass offers exactly this.
People keep ignoring it while clamouring for smaller, more experimental games.
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Cyberpunkd
Gold Member
I don’t understand his point. Sure, your games take long to make, but with a healthy pipeline you have a steady chain or reveals —> releases. A huge dry spell at Sony means that at some point they have simply switched their priorities from narrative driven SP games to probably more emphasis on GAAS.
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
Lol I have so many games to play that I don't even care.
As that guy said some people just want to be perpetually hyped. Go play some games from your backlog you clowns.
As that guy said some people just want to be perpetually hyped. Go play some games from your backlog you clowns.
FunkMiller
Member
Hollywood whines about movies costing too much.
Games industry whines about games costing too much and taking too long.
Meanwhile, higher executives in both are paid more now than ever before.
You can’t fix a problem until you understand what it is.
Both industries are bloated by pointless, talentless cunts.
Games industry whines about games costing too much and taking too long.
Meanwhile, higher executives in both are paid more now than ever before.
You can’t fix a problem until you understand what it is.
Both industries are bloated by pointless, talentless cunts.
FunkMiller
Member
Never fails to amaze me how people will defend the very corporations that have caused this ongoing clusterfuck.
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vaibhavpisal
Member
Yeah, Tango should’ve been open still. Also Arkane Austin.
Thats an issue they were going to run into after buying that many studios.
Hopefully atleast Bethesda is sorted after this.
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
It's easier when you release games for a tablet Dropping home consoles is the smartest move Nintendo ever did.
Also I note the lack of new IPs on that list but then again their audience basically wants Mario and Zelda forever.
RagnarokIV
Battlebus imprisoning me \m/ >.< \m/
feynoob
Gold Member
It's just shilling. MS has yet to deliver the quality of PS games on gamepass. Quality over quantity.
I would rather have 1 Skyrim over 10 starfield day 1 game pass.
AV
We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
Spider-Man 2 is a step in the right direction. Any opinions on the quality of the main game aside, it had significantly less open world chore bloat than the first and it was a better game in that regard at the least.
I think base game takes the most time and time. Adding another a to be quest with recycled assets is fast.
JimmyRustler
Gold Member
Well, they should stop making these 100+ hours bloated trash games then. Or maybe consult From Software about how the job should be done.
Kiya's Guard
Member
So now we're making threads about people commenting on leakers?
vaibhavpisal
Member
Thats the point. No ps style games on gamepass, they are smaller, varied titles. Thats what the poster was asking for, the one i quoted.
Starfield development is ongoing. I am also waiting for it to get stuff I want before playing it.
That’s unfortunate but ultimately MS gets games where they need to be eventually.
The game will be much bigger than whats achievable via traditional development though.
feynoob
Gold Member
No one cares about that. What people care is the rich story and good gameplay. MS studios has yet to achieve that.
They messed up the core gameplay. You aren't actually exploring the world. At least Skyrim let you wonder around without a limited barrier.
Not with Matt booty on the whelm. Guy shut down the only good studio MS had, because he hated traveling around.
Game is going to need mods to be actually good. Bethesda messed the core gameplay.
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Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Problem with this is that the changes you describe wouldn't save nearly as much dev time as you'd expect. The "bloat" tends to be made up of generic scripted content that can be quickly implemented at multiple -sometimes randomized- locations across an open world, and that stuff is quick to put together but adds a lot of busywork to engage the player's attention.
What tends to cost the most time are big set-pieces and things that require a lot of bespoke code and art exclusive to themselves. Moments that represent a tiny sliver of actual play-time but are outsized in terms of memorability and importance to the play experience. Cutting back on these is difficult because gamers tend not to like repeated boss fights (for example), they want each high-spot to unique.
vaibhavpisal
Member
Define good gameplay.
For me its repeatable. I can play with mechanics all day and never get bored. Truly get indulged in them.
MS does excellent in that department.
In comparison, say Spiderman 2. I mostly try to get through combat encounters in that game. Those battles get old fast. I do like swinging however.
Story, meh. Whatever, I don’t care for video game stories in general.
Core gameplay for me is shooting mechanics, feel of character movement, jetpack etc.
Starfield is excellent in those aspects.
Exploration, there isn’t much, yes. Am waiting for that to get fixed. Though am hearing it feels better now with survival aspects. But I also want unique quests on different planets.
ProtoByte
Member
Lol, why does this have so many positive reactions? It's so wrong and self contradictory on every level.
feynoob
Gold Member
Gameplay is when people are engaged with your games. Aside of forza horizon and hifi rush. Halo infinite was meh. Red fall was dog shit. Starfield was a let down. And now hell blade 2 is more garbage than the first one, aside of visuals.
Core gameplay is the exploration. The game is space exploration, not shooting the bad guys.
Starfield is limited in those aspects.
Won't matter when the game is too much procedural generated content with walls blocking your path. As long as that aspect exists, the game would limited to how much it can do.
Its like trying to fix redfall, without trying to address the core mechanics.
Msamy
Member
100% with you , Sony Start to release their dogs to defend their poor management their's no excuses to ND. SMS , Sucker punch , guerilla and other sony first parties to never show or release true next gen titles until now it's not our mistakes that sony management make them focus in cross gen and gass titles ,simply playstation strategy and management this gen are shit .
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Borowski_1
Member
"some still haven't really grasped just how long big"
That's what i tell the ladies
seriously tho, the lack o proper first-party singleplayer games from Sony is baffling to say the least. No ND, no Bend, no Bluepoint, no Sucker Punch, no Asobi
Insomniac released 4 games since 2018. 4 fucking games
id and The Coalition are about to announce new games
At this rate, Hollow Knight Silksong might release before Sony decides to announce new games
That's what i tell the ladies
seriously tho, the lack o proper first-party singleplayer games from Sony is baffling to say the least. No ND, no Bend, no Bluepoint, no Sucker Punch, no Asobi
Insomniac released 4 games since 2018. 4 fucking games
id and The Coalition are about to announce new games
At this rate, Hollow Knight Silksong might release before Sony decides to announce new games
LazyParrot
Member
Something's got to give at some point. You'll either have to content yourself with more frequent releases that have lower production values, or you'll have wait until the end of the generation to get games that make full use of the hardware.