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[Radical_3d]

Then people will complain why they don't look as good as Hellblade 2 lol

I like the PS2 manifesto that was going around Twitter. Smaller simpler games with experimentation.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

This. Simply saying games take too long guys is missing just how poorly Herman Bust has run these studios.

the first party is still making games. its just that they wasted those 4-5 years on last gen stuff and remakes that no one wnated when they forked over $500 on the ps5.

here is why sony studios dont have much to show after being MIA in 2021, 2022 and technically MIA in 2023 when all they showed was spiderman 2 and a bunch of gaas trash.

ND - Neil ran away to make a tv show. bored devs started meddling with the vsg project causing vsg leads to quit in disgust, forcing nd to waste 2 years finishing that project. also, 5 years wasted on trying to get gaas factions to work.

Bend - Wasted 6 months on a days gone 2 pitch instead of making a sequel right away. then wasted a year and a half on an uncharted spinoff which they cancelled because of nd meddling.

SSM - Spent 4.5 years on a last gen game without cory who was off making a new IP that is still MIA after 6 years in pre-production. Maybe they shouldve given him a bigger team to realize his vision.

GG - Spent 5 years on a last gen game, plus one more on DLC. Not sure how long on a remake no one wants. Not sure how long on a GaaS horizon game no one wants.

PD - wasted 4.5 years on a last gen game.

Insomniac - Wasted 2 years on Miles last gen DLC. Imagine if they had those 2 years to get spiderman 2 the best they could make. An additional 2 years shouldve given them enough time for a complete graphics overhaul and a big gameplay overhual. but no, lets waste 2 years on DLC.


if these studios simply moved on to making next gen only games instead of cross gen games, remakes and DLCs, we would be swimming in next gen stuff right now.

Oh jeez, the last gen crying begins despite some in these games being heavily upgraded for current gen.

Let I remind you that TotK runs on a switch

 

[Msamy]

It’s rumored another crappy state of play instead of a big showcase so he’s doing pre-emptive damage control like a good old warrior.

Even the biggest two games at that rumored sop are astrobot and concord as per rumors. Lol,

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

Cue there meltdowns.

As long as I’m playing quality games on my PS5 I don’t give a shit if they are first party or third party.

Games take a long time to make and I’d rather have devs take their time and release a masterpiece than rush to deliver and come out with a mess that flops.

 

[lughnasadh123]

People simultaneously saying their backlog is too big while also bitching that games take too long is the biggest joke right now. There's so many games getting released that it's now hurting sales of other games because people don't have the time or cash to play it all. Flat out fucking stupid.

 

[Msamy]

Oh jeez, the last gen crying begins despite some in these games being heavily upgraded for current gen.

Let I remind you that TotK runs on a switch

Non of those heavily upgraded titles have the feelings of true current gen title expect for a little hfw

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Not every game needs a movie budget.
The pace they release games is disappointing and unacceptable.

 

[Negotiator]

Yep. You can see exactly when things started to go wrong too. They had a slide showing how their sp to mp budget split was 88-12% in 2019 in favor of sp games. By 2023, it was 45-55% in favor of mp. With no increase in overall spending for sp games especially with costs increasing post covid. All their extra investment went into gaas. All of it.

You do you realize that the Pareto principle applies in the gaming industry too, right?

20% of games bring 80% of the revenue.

Ever wondered why Epic Games is able to fund so many devs for exclusive rights and give tons of freebies on their store? It's because Fortnite alone brings 80% of their revenue:

Sony doesn't need to create a Fortnite copycat (Factions 2), because they had their very own "Fortnite" 6 years before Fortnite was released: UC3 MP, which later on became a full-blown GaaS with F2P, MTX and free DLC maps.

UNCHARTED 3 Multiplayer Goes Free-to-Play Today

After a few months of dropping hints our secret is ready to be made public. We are extremely fortunate to have some of the most devoted and amazing fans in gaming and we wanted to introduce those fans, and the world of UNCHARTED 3 multiplayer, to as many people as possible. We also wanted...

blog.playstation.com

They squandered their opportunity to make ND a multi-billion dollar studio and left that money on the table, only for Epic Games to seize the opportunity in a heartbeat.

And no, I'm not saying ND should stop making SP games. Uncharted 2-3 had a holistic approach (SP + MP should be intertwined, story-wise, animation-wise).

Developing a MP for Uncharted 2 allowed them to have a better SP according to Christophe Balestra.

Also, it's not like they had tons of people working on the MP team... UC3 MP only had 2-3 people for maintenance/updates.

It's not like they have to take people from the SP team like most people would like to believe. A netcode programmer for example doesn't take anything away from the SP team, his expertise is only useful in the MP.

Hell, Christophe Balestra (ND's former CEO) wrote the LAN mode himself during the PSN 2011 debacle (they wanted to test UC3 MP, even when the PSN was down).

Modern western studios might be lazy (taking paid leave for "that day of the month"), but that wasn't always the case. Old school CEOs (from Christophe Balestra to Iwata on Nintendo) were a different breed.

ps: The Pareto philosophy is also the reason why it doesn't make sense for MS to close down less profitable studios like Tango.

The whole promise is to offer a variety of games/genres and have 1-2 extremely successful MP games to fund the rest of your less profitable segments = win-win for companies & gamers = goodwill earned

I'll never understand people who don't remember (must be recency bias due to PS4) that the PS3 era had a good balance between cinematic AAA SP and fun/arcadey MP games. Killzone is dead, Uncharted is dead. Is that the PlayStation we really want?

 

[Bert Big Balls]

Then people will complain why they don't look as good as Hellblade 2 lol

Yeah. Everyone says "graphics don't matter, gameplay does", and then cums buckets at some hyper realistic, ray traced out the wazoo, literal 6 hour movie with minimal controls. Makes no fucking sense.

 

[Represent.]

Herman and jimbo destroyed the Sony first party output with their mismanagement, cross Gen, gaas and remake focus. If games take longer to make, hire more people. You are more profitable than ever before.

This. Im sick and tired of people like Shinobi making excuses for Herman and his team.

Oh games take long to make, oh Covid happened, oh they just released a remake, oh they just released Ronin .. STFU. You know damn well those arent up to the quality of games we've come to expect from SONY 1st Party studios.

So many excuses.

Games take too long to make? Make shorter games. Hire more people. Simple freaking solution.

 

[Negotiator101]

This. Simply saying games take too long guys is missing just how poorly Herman Bust has run these studios.

the first party is still making games. its just that they wasted those 4-5 years on last gen stuff and remakes that no one wnated when they forked over $500 on the ps5.

here is why sony studios dont have much to show after being MIA in 2021, 2022 and technically MIA in 2023 when all they showed was spiderman 2 and a bunch of gaas trash.

ND - Neil ran away to make a tv show. bored devs started meddling with the vsg project causing vsg leads to quit in disgust, forcing nd to waste 2 years finishing that project. also, 5 years wasted on trying to get gaas factions to work.

Bend - Wasted 6 months on a days gone 2 pitch instead of making a sequel right away. then wasted a year and a half on an uncharted spinoff which they cancelled because of nd meddling.

SSM - Spent 4.5 years on a last gen game without cory who was off making a new IP that is still MIA after 6 years in pre-production. Maybe they shouldve given him a bigger team to realize his vision.

GG - Spent 5 years on a last gen game, plus one more on DLC. Not sure how long on a remake no one wants. Not sure how long on a GaaS horizon game no one wants.

PD - wasted 4.5 years on a last gen game.

Insomniac - Wasted 2 years on Miles last gen DLC. Imagine if they had those 2 years to get spiderman 2 the best they could make. An additional 2 years shouldve given them enough time for a complete graphics overhaul and a big gameplay overhual. but no, lets waste 2 years on DLC.


if these studios simply moved on to making next gen only games instead of cross gen games, remakes and DLCs, we would be swimming in next gen stuff right now.

I've been saying this for ages but am labelled a fanboy, glad someone can see the reality of what Sony first-party studio's has become this generation.

 

[Badlucktroll]

I hope ND didn’t waste 6-7 years making a game about cassie drake

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I've been saying this for ages but am labelled a fanboy, glad someone can see the reality of what Sony first-party studio's has become this generation.

two fanboy opinions still are two fanboy opinions

 

[Negotiator101]

two fanboy opinions still are two fanboy opinions

Why? Just why? Can anyone tell me?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Non of those heavily upgraded titles have the feelings of true current gen title expect for a little hfw

SM2 certainly does

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Why? Just why? Can anyone tell me?

because the analysis is flawed and coming form a bias point of view

 

[Negotiator101]

SM2 certainly does

 

[GHG]

 

[Negotiator101]

because the analysis is flawed and coming form a bias point of view

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I do love your honest attempts at discussions.

 

[TGO]

But Sony has also published a lot of games since 2019, and many Capcom teams are also taking many years to make video games.

Not really, Capcom's Studios are producing and releasing a product every 3 years.
With the work split up between teams they got a consistent flow for each year.
Sony does have this but it's seem to be put on pause since Hulst & Ryan took over
Majority of stuff we got in the last 4 years was green lit by Shuhei Yoshida & Andrew House/John Kodera
Shuhei even sign up Shiftup in 2021 despite stepping down from that job 2 years prior.
That was Hulst's job and he missed it.
And the fact that Resident Evil 2/3/4 are remakes is redundant.
All studios start with a plan and roadmap of what they want to achieve.
If that a new idea or one that's was done before they all start from scratch and go through the same process.
One if just more restricted to what the end result will be.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Not really, Capcom's Studios are producing and releasing a product every 3 years.

They're really not

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

no need. Just look at the entire gaming industy and look dev times/trends.

 

[Negotiator101]

They're really not

And yours

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

And yours

Okay i'll bite. Give me something and i'll tell you why you're wrong

 

[Msamy]

SM2 certainly does

Sm2 are far behind from true current gen titles in terms of lighting , building and character models for ex ; if you compare it with gta vi trailer you would know what I mean , even wolverine Leaked unpolished development build looks better than it.

 

[Negotiator101]

Okay i'll bite. Give me something and i'll tell you why you're wrong

You got nothing, you're just a slight comic relief on here that's all mate, carry on with the gifs and the one liners.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

You got nothing, you're just a slight comic relief on here that's all mate, carry on with the gifs and the one liners.

Predictable lmao

 

[Negotiator]

I hope ND didn’t waste 6-7 years making a game about cassie drake

I'm also worried that if Uncharted 5 ever came out (highly unlikely) it would be DEI-infused version of Uncharted.

I didn't really enjoy The Lost Legacy story-wise for this reason (muh girl powah). Chloe and Nadine constantly taking potshots against Sam (I really didn't like Sam in UC4, but in TLL I felt mercy for him).

Druckmann has said that he follows Anita Sarkeesian's "advice" of how gaming should be, so I don't have high hopes.

I'd rather have Amy Hennig back. You don't see any "feminists" supporting her or questioning Druckmann if he's the cause that she left the studio.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Sm2 are far behind from true current gen titles in terms of lighting , building and character models for ex ; if you compare it with gta vi trailer you would know what I mean , even wolverine Leaked unpolished development build looks better than it.

Which titles is it far behind on?

Its the only one offering 60fps and ray tracing

The only reason people dismiss these cross gen games is because the bar was already high

 

[Msamy]

Which titles is it far behind on?

Its the only one offering 60fps and ray tracing

The only reason people dismiss these cross gen games is because the bar was already high

I told you above gta vi , and many other titles ex avatar , alanwake 2 , hellblade 2, star wars outlow and death stranding 2 even robocop looks better and some of those titles have or will have rt with 60 fps modes and for me and many 60 fps not that important I don't mind 30 fps with true current graphics also you can watch some wolverine developnent unpolished build leaks which looks better than sm2.,also the bar isn't that hay , we never asked for full path tracing games we asked for games that uses the power of current gen consoles.

 

[tmlDan]

I've been saying this for ages but am labelled a fanboy, glad someone can see the reality of what Sony first-party studio's has become this generation.

you are a fanboy, you will defend a certain box to death and slander PS. We all know, you've been banned several times for it lol

 

[Negotiator101]

I told you above gta vi , and many other titles ex avatar , alanwake 2 , hellblade 2, star wars outlow and death stranding 2 even robocop looks better and some of those titles have or will have rt with 60 fps modes and for me and many 60 fps not that important I don't mind 30 fps with true current graphics also you can watch some wolverine developnent unpolished build leaks which looks better than sm2.,also the bar isn't that hay , we never asked for full path tracing games we asked for games that uses the power of current gen consoles.

He doesn't want to know mate, the lights are on but nobody's home.

 

[SlimySnake]

Capcom shouldn’t be compared to Sony studios as capcom studios are also making remakes or cross Gen games. Just because they get these games out on a regular basis doesn’t mean much. Re4 was great but it didn’t do anything new. It felt and played like the same ps2 era game with ps4 era Production values.

If re4, village and dragons dogma 2 were setting next Gen benchmarks then sure they would be better than Sony studios. Right now they are both doing the same exact thing.

Sony studios are getting more flack because they were head and shoulders above everyone else and Sony used To give them a bigger budget and resources to get to that high bar. Something changed over there when they decided to make last Gen gt7, ragnorak and hfw. Same goes for tlou1 remake which is basically a last Gen game released as a next Gen exclusive.

These four devs used to pride themselves on pushing boundaries and topping each other and all of a sudden they are ok with making games on a 2011 gpu and netbook cpus? They deserve all the criticism they are receiving because they themselves set those standards there are failing to meet. Not to mention the fact that capcom didn’t sell us a $500 box, Sony did so they deserve the criticism.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

It's their first party games. It's what they built their brand on. What're you going on about.

They haven't always designed there games this way.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

I like the PS2 manifesto that was going around Twitter. Smaller simpler games with experimentation.

And PS3 where they not only had better variety but also took more chances.

 

[Bernardougf]

Bend Studio was support studio for GOWR. They didn't start work on new IP until 2022. So its going to be a while

Small AAA games are the type of games that are unsustainable. Gamers dont buy them. That is why smaller AAA studios like Tango Games are getting shutdown. The big budget AAA games tied to popular IP are the ones getting greenlit. And there still is a lot of money to be made, even with the skyrocketing costs. It's a little harder for Playstation because they only release Day1 on one platform, but for them, game development is only a fraction of their overall Playstation ecosystem.

Hopefully AI speeds up the development process in the near future, but gaming overall is still in a good place. Even with longer development times, there are still plenty of AAA studios pumping out games on a regular basis. It seems like every month there are 1-2 good AAA games releasing. As a gamer, I don't mind extra development time if it leads to better games. Give studios like Naughty Dog, Sucker Punch, and Rockstar all the time they need to fulfill their vision

Sorry but thats disingenuous.... using a game that was shadow launched for basically free as an example.. if the AA and Indie industry was unsustainable it would not exist .... if you want big budget 60 hours AAA games that take 6 years to make .. fine .... I would prefer smaller games launched in a small time frame so I could enjoy my console more isntead of waiting for 1 game per gen ...

And if this model was much profitable the majority of the industry would not be complaining about costs and whatnot ...

Its not all fate and market fault .. they are chasing the rabbit hole and have to do something and not just complain

 

[Frwrd]

Then people will complain why they don't look as good as Hellblade 2 lol

And why they’re just as long.

 

[Dr. Samuel Hayden]

Those are some great excuses.

Here's some advice, don't put out a video game console if you don't have a steady stream of exclusive video games for it, as Xbox has painfully learned. Don't waste time and resources on side projects and live service slop which is mostly guaranteed to fail. And fire all the employees who are more concerned with virtue signalling on twitter rather than doing their jobs.

 

[hinch7]

Capcom shouldn’t be compared to Sony studios as capcom studios are also making remakes or cross Gen games. Just because they get these games out on a regular basis doesn’t mean much. Re4 was great but it didn’t do anything new. It felt and played like the same ps2 era game with ps4 era Production values.

If re4, village and dragons dogma 2 were setting next Gen benchmarks then sure they would be better than Sony studios. Right now they are both doing the same exact thing.

Sony studios are getting more flack because they were head and shoulders above everyone else and Sony used To give them a bigger budget and resources to get to that high bar. Something changed over there when they decided to make last Gen gt7, ragnorak and hfw. Same goes for tlou1 remake which is basically a last Gen game released as a next Gen exclusive.

These four devs used to pride themselves on pushing boundaries and topping each other and all of a sudden they are ok with making games on a 2011 gpu and netbook cpus? They deserve all the criticism they are receiving because they themselves set those standards there are failing to meet. Not to mention the fact that capcom didn’t sell us a $500 box, Sony did so they deserve the criticism.

Its not even about the tech at this point. Its the complete lack of first party games this generation for PS5. And hardly any noteworthy new and interesting IP's. Thats one of the reasons why console sales are falling off already despite the recent, and rapid growth in the games industry.

Things have gotten to stale and predicatable with sequels to big games, remakes and remasters there isn't much to get excited for. That and numerous live service titles that mostly try to immitate others; with varying degrees of success.

 

[rhodesianshepard]

Sorry but thats disingenuous.... using a game that was shadow launched for basically free as an example.. if the AA and Indie industry was unsustainable it would not exist .... if you wsnt big budget 69 hours AAA games that take 6 years to make .. fine .... I would prefer smaller games launched in a small time frame so I could enjoy my console more isntead of waiting for 1 game per gen ...

And if this model was such profitable the majority of the industry would not be complaining abour costs and what not ...

Its not all fate and market fault .. they are chasing the rabbit hole and have to do something and not just complain

Every month there are seemingly 1-2 good AAA games coming out. In terms of content, gamers have never been fed so good. Which is part of the reason why AA games are dying. There are too many games to play, and the smaller games are being ignored

And I understand how you feel, but nobody is going out and paying 40-70$ for smaller experiences. Look at Hellblade 2, 50$ 7-8hr game that is completely bombing on Steam. If you look at all the major publishers, they are developing big AAA games or GAAS, not AA. It may seem logical to make smaller AA games but all the big publishers are saying it's a bigger risk

Even a game like Spider-Man 2, which cost 300+mil to develop is still generating plenty of profits. Publishers are just complaining they are not making "as much" money as before because of rising costs. In recent years, I can't think of a big AAA game that reviewed over 80MC and is multi-platform that underperformed sales wise.

 

[RAIDEN1]

Much less from a Sony perspective, this isn't a new thing about "how long games take to make NOW" case in point look how long it took to get a Metal Gear 5 after 4, even Streets of Rage 3 to 4, so this isn't a new issue with the game industry, it has been there in the background for years..

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Its not even about the tech at this point. Its the complete lack of first party games this generation for PS5. And hardly any noteworthy new and interesting IP's. Thats one of the reasons why console sales are falling off already despite the recent, and rapid growth in the games industry.

Things have gotten to stale and predicatable with sequels to big games, remakes and remasters there isn't much to get excited for. That and numerous live service titles that mostly try to immitate others; with varying degrees of success.

Imagine being so wrong.

 

[hinch7]

Imagine being so wrong.

Imagine trolling and not a single explanation. Elaborate..

Consoles sales went up due to the pandemic and initial hype. Now that that period is over, its been a downward trajectory. First party output is important, which has been lacking the past year or so.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Imagine trolling and not a single explanation. Elaborate..

Consoles sales went up due to the pandemic and initial hype. Now that that period is over, its been a downward trajectory. First party output is important, which has lacking.

They had their second best 1st quarter ever. That's the only elaboration you need.

 

[hinch7]

They had their second best 1st quarter ever. That's the only elaboration you need.

Which was due to Helldivers. And PC ports. If you look at actual sales of consoles (and probably software sales elsewhere) its down https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2024/05/14/sony-says-ps5-sales-have-peaked-after-29-decline/

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Which was due to Helldivers. And PC ports. If you look at actual sales of consoles and probably software sales to its down https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2024/05/14/sony-says-ps5-sales-have-peaked-after-29-decline/

I'm telling you they had their second best 1st quarter ever for console sales. Looking at percentage drops is meaningless if you don't actually understand anything behind it

They had a 30% drop because it was preceded by a record breaking quarter for all consoles, including the switch.

 

[rhodesianshepard]

Capcom shouldn’t be compared to Sony studios as capcom studios are also making remakes or cross Gen games. Just because they get these games out on a regular basis doesn’t mean much. Re4 was great but it didn’t do anything new. It felt and played like the same ps2 era game with ps4 era Production values.

If re4, village and dragons dogma 2 were setting next Gen benchmarks then sure they would be better than Sony studios. Right now they are both doing the same exact thing.

Sony studios are getting more flack because they were head and shoulders above everyone else and Sony used To give them a bigger budget and resources to get to that high bar. Something changed over there when they decided to make last Gen gt7, ragnorak and hfw. Same goes for tlou1 remake which is basically a last Gen game released as a next Gen exclusive.

These four devs used to pride themselves on pushing boundaries and topping each other and all of a sudden they are ok with making games on a 2011 gpu and netbook cpus? They deserve all the criticism they are receiving because they themselves set those standards there are failing to meet. Not to mention the fact that capcom didn’t sell us a $500 box, Sony did so they deserve the criticism.

Its financially not tenable to release GOWR and HFW to a PS5 player base between 20-30mil(at the time of release). Both those games cost 200+mil to develop. And it is 99% not a studio decision, but PlayStation telling them you "have" to release this as a cross-gen game. Playstation would literally be leaving hundreds of millions of dollars on the table. It is ignorant for you to not mention that. And you just being an asshole attacking the studios integrity

 

[hinch7]

I'm telling you they had their second best 1st quarter ever for console sales. Looking at percentage drops is meaningless if you don't actually understand anything behind it

They had a 30% drop because it was preceded by a record breaking quarter for all consoles, including the switch.

A good quarter but previous quarter was a drop of 1.8M. Overall drop from the previous year. Sony themselves predicts another drop this FY https://www.ign.com/articles/ps5-se...arget-sony-predicts-further-decline-this-year

And you think software has nothing to do with it? And or/have no bearing or correlation to hardware sales. We just had HD2 release, with SFVI and FFVII Rebirth this quarter. That would boost sales all over and probably more-so in Asia.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

A good quarter but previous quarter was a drop of 1.8M.

Because the previous quarter was october, november and december.

Like yeah, no shit the biggest months of the year are supposed to do better.

Overall drop from the previous year.

Again, because they had the biggest quarter ever, for any console. Sustaining those level of sales was never going to be possible.

Sony themselves predicts another drop this FY https://www.ign.com/articles/ps5-se...arget-sony-predicts-further-decline-this-year

Because we're entering the second half it's lifecycle. This happens with every single console.

And you think software has nothing to do with it? And or/have no bearing or correlation to hardware sales. We just had HD2 release, with SFVI and FFVII Rebirth this quarter. That would boost sales all over and probably more-so in Asia.

It most likely did help with sales. They still sold 4+ million consoles in a quarter which usually only manages to sell 2 million.