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Shinobi602 on the "lack" of First Party reveals by PlayStation: "I think some still haven't really grasped just how long big games take to make now"

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
SM2 is a great game that looks awesome and released quickly in the gen

We need more of that, not 5 hour walking sims that take 7 years to make with terrible and non existent gameplay that are terribly comfined but with bleeding edge visuals

Why are you defending them so hard. They are the market leader in high performance games consoles and they should be doing better.

They basically had ps4 titles closing on completion and decided to port them to ps5.

They've not announced a first party game for approaching three years. This is not ok in any stretch.
 

ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
SM2 had most of the same gameplay as SM1, graphics that looked only marginally better than Miles Morales. Plus its story was a dumpster fire. We need less lazy sequels from Sony.

Yah it is pretty much a rehash of Spider-Man and Miles Morales. Only redeeming part is probably being able to play as Venom for a short while.

Lackluster MJ missions.
 
Sony has a record number of first party games under development, being around half of them new IP.
I think the problem is that regardless of how many studios or indeed games they have in development they are unable to put together a summer games Showcase, add that to the terrible one they did last year hence the reason for this thread and the concerns raised.

If you actually look at the facts and the many mistakes made on the managerial side it starts to paint a rather unflattering picture.

Media Molecule nothing new for many years and nothing on the horizon. Firesprite was working on a Twisted Metal game which was cancelled (wasted development time) new horror project years away. Bend pitched a Days Gone 2vwhich was denied, spent time working on TLOU remake unknown game years away. Naughty Dog was finishing up the MP component for TLOU2 was then told to make a much bigger standalone GaaS title (unbelievably bad decision) which was subsequently cancelled wasting years of development time. New IP in development years away.

Yes we do have some hope with Insomniac, Guerrilla and Sucker punch but will they show anything this year?
 

xHunter

Member
Why are you defending them so hard. They are the market leader in high performance games consoles and they should be doing better.

They basically had ps4 titles closing on completion and decided to port them to ps5.

They've not announced a first party game for approaching three years. This is not ok in any stretch.




Literally a year ago. Stop trolling for once bro.
 

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
They're really not
Oh right those games are a figment of my imagination.
You know I'm talking about as a whole not per dev team?
And what we got?
RE9 & a possible RE1 Remake by 2026
You see, consistency.
I find it hard to believe Jimbo has been going to these Studios since before the release of the PS5 and they got nothing close to completion that they can announce?
for all this time?
I'm sure they have something, but every single one of them has nothing near completion?
I find that hard to believe unless there is a problem
It's been half a decade come next year.
 
Oh right those games are a figment of my imagination.
You know I'm talking about as a whole not per dev team?
And what we got?
RE9 & a possible RE1 Remake by 2026
You see, consistency.
I find it hard to believe Jimbo has been going to these Studios since before the release of the PS5 and they got nothing close to completion that they can announce?
for all this time?
I'm sure they have something, but every single one of them has nothing near completion?
I find that hard to believe unless there is a problem
It's been half a decade come next year.

You're either talking about Sony's output as a whole or the individual studios

Which is it? Make up your mind
 
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Ceadeus

Member
Regarding MP, they should focus on smaller, arena-style linear games (like UC3 MP).

UC3 MP was considered a GaaS for its time, since it got updates for 3 years (2011-2014), even after the PS4 release.

Few people will remember it, but it even got a new map (Dry Docks):


Factions 2 was most likely an open world MP game (Battle Royale style).

Nobody asked for that in the ND MP community... they took the wrong gamble.

Remastering classic MP games (Killzone 2-3, Uncharted 2-3) would require way less effort/crunch than trying to make the next Battle Royale hit and it would bring back PS3 veterans that don't feel that engaged anymore. Guaranteed ROI with minimal CapEx.

I'm surprised Sony's higher-ups don't get it. It's like they were absent in the PS3 era.
Usually the multiplayer part of these games came with the single player part as big aaa releases though.

I was talking about going back to xbla and psn bite sized games like quake arena or fat princess because they were quicker to release. But also the whole plethora of genre that these platforms had.

For a month that had drought with big release, at least there could be something interesting releasing on xbla/psn. Warhawk is also a nice example of what im trying to explain.
 
Usually the multiplayer part of these games came with the single player part as big aaa releases though.

I was talking about going back to xbla and psn bite sized games like quake arena or fat princess because they were quicker to release. But also the whole plethora of genre that these platforms had.

For a month that had drought with big release, at least there could be something interesting releasing on xbla/psn. Warhawk is also a nice example of what im trying to explain.
They could decouple it if they want, no PS+ requirement either for F2P:


But that doesn't necessarily mean it has to be a big Battle Royale game...

Also, the UC3 MP summer beta was the biggest PS3 MP beta ever, even bigger than CoD or BF:


There is clearly an audience for this type of MP, but Sony/ND don't seem to care enough...

I have PSN friends constantly asking me for years why the Uncharted Remastered Collection didn't include UC2-3 MP.

I also know people who keep asking for a Warhawk remaster, Killzone 2-3 too. Hell, even PS Home could be a hit in the Metaverse era.

Sony has so many underrated gems buried deep inside their IP portfolio, it's truly a shame they don't know how to commercialize them.

There is absolutely no need to invest in new, unproven MP projects. The industry has clearly taken a retro direction (Capcom regained gamers' goodwill by remastering beloved games).
 
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NahaNago

Member
even if it takes a long time to make, that is a Sony first party release management issue. They should have expanded teams for more projects and published even more second party games if this was going to be an issue.
 

samoilaaa

Member
In the context of him bullshitting about their being no first party games announced for 3 years, yes? Did you even read the post i replied to?
yeah i did , i know those live service games are 1st party but lets be honest when people are referring to 1st party announcements they want games from the big AAA single player teams , new naughty dog game , ghost of tsushima 2 , new bend game , new bluepoint game , new housemarque etc.
 

xHunter

Member
yeah i did , i know those live service games are 1st party but lets be honest when people are referring to 1st party announcements they want games from the big AAA single player teams , new naughty dog game , ghost of tsushima 2 , new bend game , new bluepoint game , new housemarque etc.
Great, then that person should write that instead of telling lies. Even if you dont like these GaaS games, they are still first party and have been announced a year ago.
 

Melon Husk

Member
Big budget games take 2x too long to develop. It's unsustainable. Use generative AI or whatever to cut the time to 3-4 years tops.
 

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
You're either talking about Sony's output as a whole or the individual studios

Which is it? Make up your mind
I never once singled out a studio.
I've said some studios I do not expect to see anything from yet
But all of my posts has been focused on Studios or Playstation Studios as a whole
And this isn't new and was noticeable a while back





People have noticed
And all of this isn't just people over reacting, it's the state of play (pun intended)
And it's something that gamers voiced their opinion about some time ago.
It's why we got that big State of Play a few months back.
And that was fantastic...but it still doesn't answer what's going on at Playstation Studios
I don't expect anything because they said not to expect anything which means they got nothing.
And after all this time you need to ask why.
This isn't trolling, this is genuine concern for the platform from someone you all know is a playstation guy and wouldn't say anything unless it needs to be said.
Everyone defending it sounds like Disney Supporters when we all know there is a problem that needs to be addressed.
 

yurinka

Member
I think the problem is that regardless of how many studios or indeed games they have in development they are unable to put together a summer games Showcase, add that to the terrible one they did last year hence the reason for this thread and the concerns raised.

If you actually look at the facts and the many mistakes made on the managerial side it starts to paint a rather unflattering picture.
That's bullshit, they had always a summer showcase/E3 conference and they will do this one too. With a year as exception due to a fucking global pandemic that shattered eveyone's plans.

The objective KPIs that measure their success show they are performing better than ever -even breaking many records for them or in some caases even any console maker in gaming history- and that they are growing in basically all areas. You personally not making some decision they took was a mistaake.

Media Molecule nothing new for many years and nothing on the horizon.
This is bullshit. They were working on post launch Dream content and support until recently, when they announced that stopped working on it and moved to a new game.

Firesprite was working on a Twisted Metal game which was cancelled (wasted development time) new horror project years away.
No. What we know for a fact is that they have been working for years on a single player horror adventure and a multiplayer game with on foot and on vehicle combat.

And outside that, Jason Schreier (who like his coworker in Bloomberg often mades up fake news about Sony) said they had a Twisted Metal pitch that wasn't greenlighted, which means it was in very early stages and never started its production, so they alsmost didn't spend resources on it.

Bend pitched a Days Gone 2vwhich was denied,
Bullshit, Bend never pitched Days Gone 2 to PS Studios. It was an internal Bend boss (the studio manager) who blocked it. Both Days Gone directors publicly said Sony was always very supportive with Days Gone even after the reviews. Sony greenlighted the first post-DG1 pitch they received from Bend: the new IP they are working on.

spent time working on TLOU remake unknown game years away.

Naughty Dog was finishing up the MP component for TLOU2 was then told to make a much bigger standalone GaaS title (unbelievably bad decision) which was subsequently cancelled wasting years of development time. New IP in development years away.
ND wasn't told to do this. It was ND who decided to branch it out to a standalone game. And later was ND who decided to cancel it. To make games is very hard, it's a creative process very hard to predict and sometimes projects get cancelled, but they learn from it and also reuse part of that job done there in other projects. In this case, pretty likely will reuse part of this work in TLOU3.

In summer 2023 they had a game concept to start working on TLOU3 (they decided later to cancel TLOU Online, maybe to work on TLOU3 instead). In addition to TLOU online they were working back then in minimum two new SP games more: one that started around 2021 and other one that started in early 2023.

Yes we do have some hope with Insomniac, Guerrilla and Sucker punch but will they show anything this year?
We have hope with all their studios. In recent years Sony have multiple shows across the year, and focus them on games to be released in the next 6-9 months, with a few rare excepcions including games planned to be released maximum a year and a half or two.

This means pretty likely they won't show Wolverine if it really is a 2026 game as we saw in the leaks. The leaks shown Venom planned for 2025 in some roadmaps and 2027 in other ones. I'd bet the most updated one would be adding a delay, but if they plan to release it in 2025 that could be a game (or DLC) they could announce this year.

For Guerrilla would be too early to announce the Horizon 3 game they are working on, but could show the Horizon Online game they had in the works since 2018 (early 2018 they hired back the Rainbow Six & Killzone 2 MP director to work on it).

Sucker Punch released GoT in mid 2020, GoT Legends in late 2020 and the Ikki DLC + DC/PS5 imrprovements in mid 2021. So knowing that nowadays big AAA games take 5-9 years, pretty likely it's too early for them to show GoT2. But you never know, they can always put a CG logo teaser.

but it still doesn't answer what's going on at Playstation Studios
We know what is going on there, they are making a lot of games, more than even before. But nowadays games take longer to be made, around 5-9 years for big AAA games.

We also know that many Sony haters are acting as gaming flatearthers. Childish, entitled, whiny drama queens who act as if all the many games recently released by Sony and the many games they have announced -several of them to be released later this year- wouldn't exist, when they know they are there.
 
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Now remove the games on ps4. You’re left with 1 remake, 1 tech demo, 3 new ps5 games and a be game in almost 4 years of the ps5s life. That’s pretty shit.
 

yurinka

Member
Now remove the games on ps4. You’re left with 1 remake, 1 tech demo, 3 new ps5 games and a be game in almost 4 years of the ps5s life. That’s pretty shit.
Why should I remove them? That would be a stupid cherrypicking. You asked for shorter games and I shown some of the ones they released in recent years.

Sony releases a lot of games, but mostly long ones because people prefers and on average buy way more longer ones. This isn't a surprise, they are a big company with big budgets so they have to chase big sales.

And well, Sony also supports a ton of smaller 3rd party games via PlayStation Indies, China Hero Project or India Hero Project, plus have tons of indies in general in their store. They supported a ton of great ones like Sifu, Kena, Rollerdome, TMNT Schreier's Revenge and so on. If you want shorter games Sony has a lot of them in their console.

But if you want SSM to cancel their next GoW and make a Parappa game instead I have bad news for you. They won't because it wouldn't make sense.
 
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Woopah

Member
Not really, Capcom's Studios are producing and releasing a product every 3 years.
With the work split up between teams they got a consistent flow for each year.
Sony does have this but it's seem to be put on pause since Hulst & Ryan took over
Majority of stuff we got in the last 4 years was green lit by Shuhei Yoshida & Andrew House/John Kodera
Shuhei even sign up Shiftup in 2021 despite stepping down from that job 2 years prior.
That was Hulst's job and he missed it.
And the fact that Resident Evil 2/3/4 are remakes is redundant.
All studios start with a plan and roadmap of what they want to achieve.
If that a new idea or one that's was done before they all start from scratch and go through the same process.
One if just more restricted to what the end result will be.
They are able to do that because each of Capcom's dividions has multiple teams.

If Sony called Polyphony Digital, Santa Monica, Housemarque and Sucker Punch a "division". Then that division would be putting out regular games just like Capcom is.
A good quarter but previous quarter was a drop of 1.8M. Overall drop from the previous year. Sony themselves predicts another drop this FY https://www.ign.com/articles/ps5-se...arget-sony-predicts-further-decline-this-year

And you think software has nothing to do with it? And or/have no bearing or correlation to hardware sales. We just had HD2 release, with SFVI and FFVII Rebirth this quarter. That would boost sales all over and probably more-so in Asia.
Console sales generally decline after the third or fourth year. It's perfectly normal and expected for PS4 to decline at this stage.
 
Why should I remove them? That would be a stupid cherrypicking. You asked for shorter games and I shown some of the ones they released in recent years.

Sony releases a lot of games, but mostly long ones because people prefers and on average buy way more longer ones. This isn't a surprise, they are a big company with big budgets so they have to chase big sales.

And well, Sony also supports a ton of smaller 3rd party games via PlayStation Indies, China Hero Project or India Hero Project, plus have tons of indies in general in their store. They supported a ton of great ones like Sifu, Kena, Rollerdome, TMNT Schreier's Revenge and so on. If you want shorter games Sony has a lot of them in their console.

But if you want SSM to cancel their next GoW and make a Parappa game instead I have bad news for you. They won't because it wouldn't make sense.
You should remove PS4 games because this is a discussion regarding Sony's poor release scheduled for PS5 exclusive software.
 
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so now its ok to announce a live service game with a 1min cgi trailer because its sony ?

i still remember how people were bashing microsoft for announcing hellblade 2 , fable , perfect dark , avowed only with short cgi trailers
People are saying Sony doesn't announce new games in nearly 3 years. No one mentioned gameplay. Those are CGI trailers yes. But they also announced new games.
Let's stop moving the goalposts.

It's impossible to promote live games years in advance efectively with gameplay trailers.

Remember how Helldivers 2 trailers were boring as fuck? Remember when the game turned into Sony's biggest launch in history?

Yeah...maybe Sony knows what they do when they announce games closer to release?

I for one am more than okay with their output. I don't really care who makes the games. I care about playing good games and they have those on their platform. I don't give a fuck where they come from if it's their studios or deals they make (Stellar Blade, Rise of the Ronin etc) lmao.

We already know once their teams start releasing games they will be great anyway...i say let them cook.
 

Alebrije

Member
I am fine with current situation, let Sony cook slowly thier games , no hurry.

There are great new games to play on PS5 like Stellar Blade, Ronin, Dragons Dogma 2, the Stalker trilogy, Helldivers 2 And others that Will come like the Elden R. DLC.

Guess part of the lack of games from Sony is the strategy of GAAS they seek and the timing of they different studios , Also there are a Lot of changes on industry now. My Bet is that next showcase still won't show Big guns from Sony, they are still on a transition moment.
 

Laptop1991

Member
It took just 4 years for the Fallout London team to make a total conversion mod bigger then Fallout 4 and Far Harbor combined with a much smaller team than Bethesda has and they did it for free, so i don't buy this excuse because that's all it is a Corporate excuse! in my opinion and they just keep coming out with them non stop.
 

Astray

Member
It took just 4 years for the Fallout London team to make a total conversion mod bigger then Fallout 4 and Far Harbor combined with a much smaller team than Bethesda has and they did it for free, so i don't buy this excuse because that's all it is a Corporate excuse! in my opinion and they just keep coming out with them non stop.
You do realize that making games from scratch is far harder and costlier than a conversion mod?
 
It took just 4 years for the Fallout London team to make a total conversion mod bigger then Fallout 4 and Far Harbor combined with a much smaller team than Bethesda has and they did it for free, so i don't buy this excuse because that's all it is a Corporate excuse! in my opinion and they just keep coming out with them non stop.
Not to discount their achievements, but they are modding a game that is mostly finished (I say mostly because Bethesda are to be quite honest, a shithouse studio).

Unfortunately, public expectations of graphics and bells and whistles have made games more complicated. More complexity = more dev + test.
 

Laptop1991

Member
Not to discount their achievements, but they are modding a game that is mostly finished (I say mostly because Bethesda are to be quite honest, a shithouse studio).

Unfortunately, public expectations of graphics and bells and whistles have made games more complicated. More complexity = more dev + test.
And yet we're in the most bland generation ever and as for graphics, Crysis came out in 2007 and didn't cost what it takes today, to make a game and Bethesda put out 4 huge games in 5 years between 2006 and 11, so yeah its still a corpo excuse.
 
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Laptop1991

Member
The dollar was worth more back in 2007.
Really, how much more and that explains the great lengths of times between SP games being made now does it, while live service and gaas titles get released a lot quicker and most fail, will be 20 years more or less for TES 6, truth is they don't want to because they don't need to in a lot of cases as monetization makes them more money.
 
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It took just 4 years for the Fallout London team to make a total conversion mod bigger then Fallout 4 and Far Harbor combined with a much smaller team than Bethesda has and they did it for free, so i don't buy this excuse because that's all it is a Corporate excuse! in my opinion and they just keep coming out with them non stop.
By reading comments like this i realize these topics are full of people that don't know much about videogame development.

Not trying to be a jackass, i'm on the same boat as you (most of us are). But do you really think these teams are just playing around? Or that we can compare modding with making a videogame from scratch?

If it depended on Sony you'd get a new TLOU each year...
 

Laptop1991

Member
By reading comments like this i realize these topics are full of people that don't know much about videogame development.

Not trying to be a jackass, i'm on the same boat as you (most of us are). But do you really think these teams are just playing around? Or that we can compare modding with making a videogame from scratch?

If it depended on Sony you'd get a new TLOU each year...
Becaause you know exactly how it works obviously!, wasn't there an Xbox studio head that said quite a while ago they were getting paid just to stand around and do nothing that i saw not so long back, by the way i'm not a console gamer, so i'm not having a go at Sony but corporations in general, and i don't agree with you.

The mod in question is a whole new game, made the same way as a game, so it can be compared, most mods are not total conversions.
 
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tmlDan

Member
Who is this shinobi guy? No one's answered. Is he some sony shill

He's not, he's worked int he industry in the comms division for a while in support studios (wushu studios and others) for major games, he's been around the block.

He's not a shill at all, he just likes a lot of sony first party games and has friends in the industry. He's a good guy from what i can tell tbh.
 
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Woopah

Member
Why are you defending them so hard. They are the market leader in high performance games consoles and they should be doing better.

They basically had ps4 titles closing on completion and decided to port them to ps5.

They've not announced a first party game for approaching three years. This is not ok in any stretch.
FairGame$, Marathon and Concord were all announced last year.
 

DonF

Gold Member
they have like 15 studios, even if every game had a 10 year dev cycle, they should manage to release 1 big game a year. Right now, we are in a drought mainly cause tons of projects got cancelled, thats not a "you dont know game dev" things, thats a management thing.
 
They better start releasing smaller budget games with shorter dev cycles, or else Sony will begin to lose ground. They have a bunch of studios, not everything should be aiming to release a big blockbuster movie type game.
 

YeulEmeralda

Linux User
They better start releasing smaller budget games with shorter dev cycles, or else Sony will begin to lose ground. They have a bunch of studios, not everything should be aiming to release a big blockbuster movie type game.
Sony will only lose ground if Microsoft starts releasing triple A games worth a damn.
So far it hasn't happened.
 

XXL

Member
Who is this shinobi guy? No one's answered. Is he some sony shill?
Spider Man Lol GIF
 

Laptop1991

Member
Wtf are you talking about, modders don't have to make engines or dev tools, those two alone are a major, major part of the work.
What are you talking about, neither do most game devs and publishers, they license tools and engines as well, and don't have to make them, the same rule applies to the big corporations who have infinitely more money!.
 
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JimRyanGOAT

Member
First of all

  1. Most of these First party studios have had enough time, if by now they can't even release a trailer for a game thats 1.5 years away after having 3+ years of Dev time, then welp
  2. These 500 million dollar budget games aren't even that good. SM2 was not a 300 million dollar improvement of SM PS4, its like 25% better and that's me being nice
  3. Branching out and not relying on your juggernauts is a good strategy, and something Sony has been smartly doing. These bloated studios are blowing money at this point, too much bloat and middle men
  4. I expect better and longer lasting games from these studios that give us games like HD2, Concords upcoming games, and these other GAAS that Sony is investing in. I want more games like Rust, Escape from Tarkov, Minecraft, and less COD and Destiny. I know you hate GAAS Gaf because you automatically think of the worst examples, but theres so many great GAAS games out there. It just requires the right studio, that isn't spending 500 million dollars like COD or Fortnite
 
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Lupin25

Member
Why are you defending them so hard. They are the market leader in high performance games consoles and they should be doing better.

They basically had ps4 titles closing on completion and decided to port them to ps5.

They've not announced a first party game for approaching three years. This is not ok in any stretch.

Yes and they need to show more of the games they’ve announced too.

We need to see Concord, Metal Gear Solid Δ, FairGame$, they’re nowhere to be found. That’s our main issue now.

If they’re going to have shorter market-launch windows these games need to be shown.
 
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