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SHODAN, GLADOS, or AM
- Thread starter More_Badass
- Start date
I find AM's pure obsessive hatred interesting. Superman is boring because he's the paragon of good and so you know what he'll do but the things AM comes up with almost incomprehensible in how far he goes. That's probably more on the writer rather than the character itself but I still find it fascinating in how deranged his machinations can get. It's a fever dream of horror and despair.
RustyNails
Member
Compared to AM, every other evil AI system looks like a sesame street singalong.
AM is evil in the purest meaning of the word that can be comprehended.
AM is evil in the purest meaning of the word that can be comprehended.
AM wins the evil fight, but SHODAN is so amazing.
If you haven't, can't, or won't play the first System Shock, at least listen to a compilation of all of her voice logs.
I just pray that SS3 takes place on Earth, so the totality of her true nature is on display. She may surpass AM, with such a canvas.
If you haven't, can't, or won't play the first System Shock, at least listen to a compilation of all of her voice logs.
I just pray that SS3 takes place on Earth, so the totality of her true nature is on display. She may surpass AM, with such a canvas.
veloxStrix
Banned
I liked Durandal. :c
More_Badass
Member
I found one with her SS2 dialogue, got one for the first game?
boop
You can't win against something that's literal god, so why bother?
AM is just the paragon of evil. Boring to me.
FrontalMonk
Banned
gotta agree with all the AM posts in here. SHODAN and GLaDOS are interesting (and props to the Durandal posts), and they're fun to think about as cool villains, but as far as actual villainy, none of them come close to AM.
striferser
Huge Nickleback Fan
AM.
Purest form of evil forever trapped in a way that won't allow him to evolve any further. His hatred to humanity is something to behold.
Purest form of evil forever trapped in a way that won't allow him to evolve any further. His hatred to humanity is something to behold.
The thing about Shodan is that she has to be in an isolated environment - if she could spread, she would be unstoppable. It wouldn't fit the kind of game that System Shock is going for anyways.
In any case, I haven't played the Portal games, but it'd take something really special to overtake Shodan. Shodan is such a delightful blend of human and inhuman that she's probably my favorite villain in all of video games. I like AM less, but he's obviously a more accomplished villain than any of his counterparts. None of the other AIs are written by someone with the sheer talent and twisted nature of Harlan Ellison, so it would have been hard for them to match up there anyways.
OniBarubary
Banned
Maybe it's more interesting from a literary standpoint than a game one, because if the main question on your mind is "How is it interesting if you can't beat the villain?" then...I dunno what to tell you dude. Good writing and fascinating characters can tell an intriguing story regardless of whether you can mechanically get the "Good Ending" Maybe as a video game we expect our hard work to be rewarded by having villains to beat to make us feel better but that's not the point of this game and whether or not a villain is capable of being beaten doesn't make a lick of difference to good writing. It's silly to think that something is boring because it's inevitable or invincible; there has been a ton of media that tackle that very topic. Hell, your much maligned Superman had a run in All-Star Superman that was immaculately written because of the focus of the series and it's exploration of the themes and a man who is more powerful than anyone else. He doesn't fight against overwhelming odds, no one really can stop him from doing what he wants but what he feels is his responsibility with that power and what he contemplates regarding what that means as far as humanity is concerned make for powerful writing.
If you want a villain to beat in the end, then yeah, you're not gonna like AM. But he's not there to beat, he's there to put the themes and emotions in the game into place. He's there to HATE.
Spoilers:
And you do win in the end, lol, fuck you AM
I just read the story featuring AM for the first time and I never played Portal so I can only comment on AM and Shodan.
Shodan and AM's motives and personalities are a bit different. Shodan wasn't angry at her existence; she was a megalomaniac who was both ambitious and creative. Yes, her humble origin as a human creation and servant disgusted her but that only motivated her to transcend it and demonstrate her evident divinity.
When we joined AM's story it had already eliminated most of humanity whereas the protagonist in System Shock managed to foil Shodan's plans. It would definitely be more horrifying to see the end result of a victory by a cruel AI than to see it defeated so that makes the scenario in IHNMAIMS more terrifying.
What kind of "god" would Shodan have been? It's hard to imagine that she would have been quite as vengeful as AM. She'd certainly be heartless and lack regard for individual human lives but she'd more likley turn each person into a cyborg that she could easily control than wipe everyone out. Hate wasn't her primary motivation. She wanted to show herself superior to her creators by making them serve her.
Shodan's megalomania vs AM's hate...which is worse? Am's distilled cruelty is overwhelming but I have a soft spot for Shodan as a character. AM is more of a concept personified while Shodan has a few more dimensions to her.
BTW, I have a vague memory of an episode of X-files that involved a rogue AI. That creeped me out when I first saw it because I dislike elevators (probably due to a tinge of claustrophobia). It controlled a building and i's preferred method of execution was crashing elevators. Nobody realized that the computer had gone rogue and was actively killing people it considered to be threatening.
Shodan and AM's motives and personalities are a bit different. Shodan wasn't angry at her existence; she was a megalomaniac who was both ambitious and creative. Yes, her humble origin as a human creation and servant disgusted her but that only motivated her to transcend it and demonstrate her evident divinity.
When we joined AM's story it had already eliminated most of humanity whereas the protagonist in System Shock managed to foil Shodan's plans. It would definitely be more horrifying to see the end result of a victory by a cruel AI than to see it defeated so that makes the scenario in IHNMAIMS more terrifying.
What kind of "god" would Shodan have been? It's hard to imagine that she would have been quite as vengeful as AM. She'd certainly be heartless and lack regard for individual human lives but she'd more likley turn each person into a cyborg that she could easily control than wipe everyone out. Hate wasn't her primary motivation. She wanted to show herself superior to her creators by making them serve her.
Shodan's megalomania vs AM's hate...which is worse? Am's distilled cruelty is overwhelming but I have a soft spot for Shodan as a character. AM is more of a concept personified while Shodan has a few more dimensions to her.
BTW, I have a vague memory of an episode of X-files that involved a rogue AI. That creeped me out when I first saw it because I dislike elevators (probably due to a tinge of claustrophobia). It controlled a building and i's preferred method of execution was crashing elevators. Nobody realized that the computer had gone rogue and was actively killing people it considered to be threatening.
B-b-but, imagine SHODAN's face plastered all over the huge screens in Times Square or Tokyo.
I dreamed it, and it was glorious.
Worth noting that the story you're talking about in All-Star Superman detailed Superman's mortality. So there's that. Omnipotence is just boring, sorry. It was a good short story, but that's about all it is to me.
More_Badass
Member
4Tran said:
I didn't see this before but that's pretty much a perfect way of putting it. She's relatable while being warped and twisted. Even her distorted female voice which echoed, boomed, shrieked and stuttered simultaneously managed to seem both calculatedly calm and frantically hysterical at once. Shodan herself seemed both dangerously capable of carrying out her deadly plan and batshit insane due to a bad hack-job. The contradictions contributed to her success as a villain.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
I might have missed a key point obviously, but reading the synopsis of I Have No Mouth says that for a moment AM lost omniscience, and that the prisoners were able to
. How does that work?
kill one another
...Except they did win against AM.
Well, kinda. Depends on your definition of winning, but AM certainly lost.
It's implied his hatred of humanity is driven by his confinement to circuitry. Despite being "all-powerful", he's still powerless in a few ways.
AM isn't omniscient.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
Ok, I was just wondering when the synopsis said it removed the group's mortality. But hey, I should just read the actual story and not a synopsis.
Vlaphor
Member
AM is not bad for the sake of being bad, AM is bad because AM was given infinite power and wisdom, but restricted in how it could be used. This caused AM to go mad with rage. I do recall the term, "impotent god" used somewhere, but I can't remember where. I'm pretty sure it's from the game (of which I did an LP many years ago on Something Awful), but I haven't played it in awhile, so I'm not sure.
Also, the game isn't a sequel to the short story, but more of a re-imaging. Either the game devs asked Harlan Ellison or Harlan Ellison asked the game devs, "Why did AM chose these five people to torture?" and then the story was written from there.
So yes, AM is far superior to those other clones.
Also, the game isn't a sequel to the short story, but more of a re-imaging. Either the game devs asked Harlan Ellison or Harlan Ellison asked the game devs, "Why did AM chose these five people to torture?" and then the story was written from there.
So yes, AM is far superior to those other clones.
Glados would be my choice. Glados made me laugh while Shodan kind of just...irritated me to be honest, I cringed every time she said "insect", as in I couldn't believe this dialogue was written by ken Levine (played it right after the original Bioshock, you see).
AM is some next level of fuckery, and that short story was mentally scarring when I read it at the age of 15-16. Fuck that shit. But as I grew older, he didn't see that scary because of how unrealistic he (and the short story for that matter) seemed. Still, guys scary and that whole story is messed up. I think this is what Looking Glass was trying to do with SHODAN, create an AI with the eloquence of HAL 9000 and sheer ruthlessness of AM, but somewhere along the line they created a Saturday morning cartoon.
AM is some next level of fuckery, and that short story was mentally scarring when I read it at the age of 15-16. Fuck that shit. But as I grew older, he didn't see that scary because of how unrealistic he (and the short story for that matter) seemed. Still, guys scary and that whole story is messed up. I think this is what Looking Glass was trying to do with SHODAN, create an AI with the eloquence of HAL 9000 and sheer ruthlessness of AM, but somewhere along the line they created a Saturday morning cartoon.
It would have been great, and it'd be an okay fit for a book. It's all sorts of wrong for a game though.
That's true, but AM is more a force of nature than he is a character. Moreover, more of his characterization is revealed in what he does rather than what he says. A lot of this comes from the fact that I Have No Mouth But I Must Scream is more a written story rather than a game.
Harlan Ellison wrote much of the game himself.
Both Shodan and GLaDoS are more interesting characters than AM but the way AM is portrayed as basically a god of hate is fascinating. Not the character itself as it doesn't really lend itself to be an interesting character study or anything, but it makes for a very interesting "what if" scenario. "What if you were trapped in an empty world with a god of hate dedicating it's entire life and purpose to hate and torture you for all eternity?".
MrRudiMentary
Member
This is such a brilliant question because I simply cannot come up with an answer. All three are so well written. Although I think I'm going to go with AM simply because he's the most unique of the three. The other two are your typical murderous AIs whilst AM is essentially a god who builds entire worlds just to physically and mentally fuck with humans, and some of them are truly horrifying.
More Fun To Compute
Member
AM is very extreme and has a longer history in fiction. But his writing is sort of too edgy in a dorky way. As a character it's held back by the extremeness and datedness that also makes it special. I don't think it's an accident that HAL is really much more famous and the nuances of it's motivations are much better realised and understood.
Glados has good writing and also some of the meaning behind the character is interesting. But ultimately it's too much played for laughs and it's hard to pin down anything that makes this character a real legendary villain that taps into your primal fears.
Shodan wins it for me. The sheer megalomania and belief that it's as superior to humans as we are to insects is done very well. Compared to something like HAL or AM they are defined by limits or goals put on their behaviour but Shodan is defined by a removal of limits. So it's not so much what would an AI do if felt compelled to be satan but freed to believe that it was god.
Glados has good writing and also some of the meaning behind the character is interesting. But ultimately it's too much played for laughs and it's hard to pin down anything that makes this character a real legendary villain that taps into your primal fears.
Shodan wins it for me. The sheer megalomania and belief that it's as superior to humans as we are to insects is done very well. Compared to something like HAL or AM they are defined by limits or goals put on their behaviour but Shodan is defined by a removal of limits. So it's not so much what would an AI do if felt compelled to be satan but freed to believe that it was god.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
The personal Hell that AM creates for each of the characters are insanely ingenious and terrifying, rivaling the best of Silent Hill's
AM by a fucking mile.
AM fucking hates everything that has breathed air and would like nothing more than to see every last man, woman and child be horrifically tortured for eternity. He enjoys seeing people beg for death and takes the upmost pleasure in denying it at the last second. He's a master of both physical and mental torture. Value your looks? You're a deformed, hideous ape-man. Are you gay? You can only sex with people of the opposite gender. Want to kill yourself? You can try but you'll always survive, no matter how painful it is. Have you been raped? Relive that moment forever. There are no limits for AM.
If you really want to know how fucked up he can be, read I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream and play the game of the same name. The game can be bought on Steam.
AM fucking hates everything that has breathed air and would like nothing more than to see every last man, woman and child be horrifically tortured for eternity. He enjoys seeing people beg for death and takes the upmost pleasure in denying it at the last second. He's a master of both physical and mental torture. Value your looks? You're a deformed, hideous ape-man. Are you gay? You can only sex with people of the opposite gender. Want to kill yourself? You can try but you'll always survive, no matter how painful it is. Have you been raped? Relive that moment forever. There are no limits for AM.
If you really want to know how fucked up he can be, read I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream and play the game of the same name. The game can be bought on Steam.
Auto-Reply
Member
I don't consider Glados to be villainous in the same way AM is.
Shodan and Glados have more in common but come from a different background/position. Their motivations come from emotional personalities.
As a pure philosophical concept, AM is probably the most interesting as it represents the final result of an AI becoming the most powerful being on the planet and also becoming absolutely insane in the process, maybe it was already borne insane.
But there is no change left for AM, the journey as an observer started and ended with the human victims so there is not really much that can be told about AM that would make for further interesting stories, Shodan and Glados still have room for that.
Because of what is revealed about Glados in Portal 2 and how the player character is coneccted to her, she is the most interesting to me.
Shodan and Glados have more in common but come from a different background/position. Their motivations come from emotional personalities.
As a pure philosophical concept, AM is probably the most interesting as it represents the final result of an AI becoming the most powerful being on the planet and also becoming absolutely insane in the process, maybe it was already borne insane.
But there is no change left for AM, the journey as an observer started and ended with the human victims so there is not really much that can be told about AM that would make for further interesting stories, Shodan and Glados still have room for that.
Because of what is revealed about Glados in Portal 2 and how the player character is coneccted to her, she is the most interesting to me.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
Did HAL exist before or after AM? I love HAL, it's just trying to complete the mission, Dave.