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Shoot Holes in Communism (Marxism)

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mattiewheels said:
human nature makes it non-viable.

Human nature makes every theory "non-viable". Capitalism is all about competition but you see the fucking corporations fixing prices, ripping off consumers and buying off politicians. Just because the supposedly "free market" is alive and well doesn't mean that capitalism is viable simply because this isn't capitalism, it's the law of the jungle. At least communism is based on a noble idea, unfortunately too noble for humans. Socialism that in a way has evolved from communism (or you could say it's another way of looking at Marxism) is the best solution possible the way I see it. It's both more viable and more difficult to circumvent.

And no Soviet Union and China didn't have much to do with communism. They were just raping the term, just like USA does now with capitalism.
 
The labor theory of value is absolute garbage, and that is the very best idea Marx ever came up with, if that gives you a clue as to the value of the rest of his ideas. The rest of his work is all about class struggle and how to order the perfect society and the whole point of that is moot if the labor theory of value is incorrect, which it is.

Carl Menger said it best:

The value an economizing individual attributes to a good is equal to the importance of the particular satisfaction that depends on his command of the good. There is no necessary and direct connection between the value of a good and whether, or in what quantities, labor and other goods of higher order were applied to its production. A non-economic good (a quantity of timber in a virgin forest, for example) does not attain value for men if large quantities of labor or other economic goods were applied to its production. Whether a diamond was found accidentally or was obtained from a diamond pit with the employment of a thousand days of labor is completely irrelevant for its value. In general, no one in practical life asks for the history of the origin of a good in estimating its value, but considers solely the services that the good will render him and which he would have to forgo if he did not have it at his command. Goods on which much labor has been expended often have no value, while others, on which little or no labor was expended, have a very high value. Goods on which much labor was expended and others on which little or no labor was expended are often of equal value to economizing men. The quantities of labor or of other means of production applied to its production cannot, therefore, be the determining factor in the value of a good. Comparison of the value of a good with the value of the means of production employed in its production does, of course, show whether and to what extent its production, an act of past human activity, was appropriate or economic. But the quantities of goods employed in the production of a good have neither a necessary nor a directly determining influence on its value.

http://www.mises.org/etexts/menger/three.asp

Ultimately there are several reasons why communism and socialism don't work in the real world. The biggest and easiest to understand reason is that if the state owns the means of production then it becomes impossible for the state to judge whether something is economical to produce or not, because no one knows what the means of production are worth, so you get inefficiencies where the means of production used to make a product are worth more than the product ends up being worth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem

The other major problem (and the most tragic) is the fact that communism requires at least a period of totalitarianism (I believe it could never get past this period however) which eventually leads to complete totalitarianism as people refuse to go along with the plan.
 
Keep writing my friends. I almost have my final paper with all these comments. Just need to make sure the OP isn't in my class first.
 
iamblades said:
The labor theory of value is absolute garbage, and that is the very best idea Marx ever came up with, if that gives you a clue as to the value of the rest of his ideas. The rest of his work is all about class struggle and how to order the perfect society and the whole point of that is moot if the labor theory of value is incorrect, which it is.

Carl Menger said it best:



http://www.mises.org/etexts/menger/three.asp

Ultimately there are several reasons why communism and socialism don't work in the real world. The biggest and easiest to understand reason is that if the state owns the means of production then it becomes impossible for the state to judge whether something is economical to produce or not, because no one knows what the means of production are worth, so you get inefficiencies where the means of production used to make a product are worth more than the product ends up being worth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem

The other major problem (and the most tragic) is the fact that communism requires at least a period of totalitarianism (I believe it could never get past this period however) which eventually leads to complete totalitarianism as people refuse to go along with the plan.

Communism doesn't work, some form of social-ism works.

The new left is all about socialism now and many are emboldened in the past 15 years to actively call for the overthrow of capitalism for centralized government intervention in a market economy.

Either way, I think pure capitalism is garbage as well but then again, in writing about the Wealth of Nations Adam Smith wasn't describing a violent overthrow of the mercantile system. That's the key difference between capitalist ideology to the marxist one. Marx cannot exist with the Capitalist, while the free marketers are generally economists and philosophers articulately describing human nature and the most utilitarian way to maximize the benefits for all. As a means to an end, capitalism is a good thing and I really do think the market economy and free markets is the way to go, but we need to expand our valuation of goods not just to prices paid today, but prices to be paid tomorrow. And not to measure overall welfare only based on 'more = better' and 'money = happiness'.
 
since i don't know too much about marx and the details of his life, i have to wonder what kind of a guy this was like........an obvious genius, who could certainly predict and comprehend the kind of bullshit his ideals could wreak upon society if they were enacted, who went ahead and furthered these ideas like he was saving the world from collapse. hopeless idealist, megalomaniac, or a little bit of both?
 
Karakand said:
Hey I finally get to use this picture of a book I found in the children's section of my hometown's library once.

313ji2r.jpg


Needs more butter and guns.
 
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