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Shooting in german school - 9 deads so far
- Thread starter obaidr
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Hari Seldon
Member
Cheeto said:
Probably. But what is that someone supposed to do about it? If it is their parent or teacher maybe they try and talk them into therapy. But you can't go around committing people who appear troubled when they haven't actually done anything wrong yet. Who knows though, the facts are not out yet.
Nah, line them all up and kick them off cliffs.
No seriously, maybe talk to them or ask them to see someone professional. I realize there's no easy answer to this, doesn't mean you should ignore it though. Ah fuck it, let's digress to blaming inanimate objects. We all know in our hearts this is the fault of the firearm and Killzone2.
No seriously, maybe talk to them or ask them to see someone professional. I realize there's no easy answer to this, doesn't mean you should ignore it though. Ah fuck it, let's digress to blaming inanimate objects. We all know in our hearts this is the fault of the firearm and Killzone2.
Lol, your explanation is the same thing as your original statement.Frenck said:
There's lots of people who aren't cold blooded at all that have killed other people to protect themselves or someone else. People like that have nightmares or guilt about it for the rest of their lives. It's not cold blooded to do something for your survival, it's cold blooded if it's not for your survival or far from the last resort to your survival.
While we're on the subject of diagnosing others, you seem to hold your own life in very little regard.
Frenck said:
Yeah, I figured you might not mean it that way. And well, "offense" would probably be only for those that have been soldiers or been forced to defend themselves - personally, I'm 0/2 on those conditions.
And I think that would have to constitute "hot blooded," in the sense that, well, "cold blooded" generally means premeditated. You don't want to have to kill anyone.
If there had been an armed guard at the school, you would have wanted him to shoot the gunman. And you would not have wanted him to hesitate, and you would not call him a cold blooded for not hesitating. At least I wouldn't.
The trouble is that these events are so rare, armed guards, or hell, in many schools, guards at all just never seem appropriate. One solution might just be to build schools really close to police stations. Like next door.
mAcOdIn said:
I wouldn't be able to pull the trigger and I know many people who wouldn't. In fact I don't know anyone who ever fired a gun outside of military service which is mandatory in Germany.
For me it's hard to imagine that someone could kill a person in any situation. Just to put that into perspective with this 17 year old kid shooting 16 people just because he felt like it.
Goldrusher
Member
Wow.
~9.30am
He killed 9 students and 3 teachers, then managed to escape.
~10.30am
Nearly 1000 police officers sealed off the school and the city.
His parents' house was searched, one weapon was missing from "their collection."
12.15
He carjacked (and took the driver hostage) a VW Sharan, drove through police blockades and got to the highway, where he let the hostage go.
12.35
The killer, 17 year old Tim K., was killed by police at a shootout 40 km away from the school, on a shopping center parking lot.
killer: 17 year old Tim K.
victims: 9 students and 3 teachers at the school + 1 nurse and 2 random people during his escape
~9.30am
He killed 9 students and 3 teachers, then managed to escape.
~10.30am
Nearly 1000 police officers sealed off the school and the city.
His parents' house was searched, one weapon was missing from "their collection."
12.15
He carjacked (and took the driver hostage) a VW Sharan, drove through police blockades and got to the highway, where he let the hostage go.
12.35
The killer, 17 year old Tim K., was killed by police at a shootout 40 km away from the school, on a shopping center parking lot.
killer: 17 year old Tim K.
victims: 9 students and 3 teachers at the school + 1 nurse and 2 random people during his escape
AtomicShroom
Member
zoukka said:
This. School shooters are always kids who are getting intimidated, bullied, rejected, or picked on by others.
Vitten said:
The media started blaming videogames before they even knew where exactly the shooting took place or how many people were killed. It was the first question that came up, could this be related to violent video games?
In the meantime the police searched his home and found violent videogames.
It's easier to blame videogames than his parents who left 18 weapons lying around near a psycho.
I'm willing to bet that you're 100% wrong about yourself and the people you think you know. I bet if you had the means and were placed into that situation that you'd quickly put aside whatever feelings you think you have and kill to protect yourself. Of course, because of your philosophy you're pretty much never going to be in that situation, I can't say you'll never be killed, but I can say that someone who's such a pacifist is probably not a good fighter or will not carry a knife or gun so you'll never be in the position to win if such a scenario came up.Frenck said:
That said, I have no beef with you as the world would be a better place if everyone felt like you do but until then I guess it's a good thing you have so many cold blooded police officers who kill these guys in your name.
eznark said:
Only him?
I was bullied a long time ago in school for about a year and it totally changed me and it took a long time to recover. I didn't honestly think those bullies as people/human beings. They were the greatest obstacle in my life at that time and I viewed them as tormentors and devils. If I'd had the change to kill them with a press of a button without nobody knowing then.... no problems.
Ended the cycle finally one day by beating the living shit out of one of them. I felt like the king of the world.
And people who haven't experienced these thing no nothing about it.
obviously, but just saying "blame the bulies" is like excusing a serial killer because his parents verbally abused him. who did the crime here?AtomicShroom said:
shootings like this really make me sad. no one should be so unwell in their head that they do these kinds of things these days. i seriously think the internet is a way of all those bullied kids in the world communicating with others who are in the same boat. even if you don't have friends in real life, you can go on the internet and talk to people and hang out with people. you should never have to feel alone. does what i say make sense? i just feel like there's a whole world of people on the internet that can be related to and that can help kids with issues. i guess not everyone has the internet... but a lot of these school shootings are happening in well developed countries that should have access for kids.
zoukka said:
Yet you didn't kill them. Although if Cheeto had his way, I'd want you locked up ASAP.
I blame the bullies for being assholes, not how you chose to react to their asshollery. I don't look for scapegoats for my actions, and I don't look for scapegoats for the actions of murderers.
Also, we're assuming he was bullied. We don't know shit about shit as far as motive, right?
Well yeah, but I never had to do anything like that though, so don't go thinking I'm some crazed vet angry at the world.JayDubya said:
Truth was, I never really cared but for a handful of people and figured if I'm not opposed to violence that the military'd be a good place for me, but I also found out that by 22 I'd tired of being treated like a child and thought that our military was off killing the wrong people.
So my mindset's not really influenced by my time in the military on this.
Frenck - I don't think you're a hypocrite nor do I think serving in the military in a time of relative peace(you do have people in Afghanistan right?) will change your mind unless you have to do something.
I think you're a hopeless romantic who holds too great a view of humanity is all.
polyh3dron
Banned
Holy shit was today Global Armed Rampage Day and someone forgot to tell me?
We have this, the Alabama thing and a couple other ones.
EDIT: And in Germany it's 10 dead now.
We have this, the Alabama thing and a couple other ones.
EDIT: And in Germany it's 10 dead now.
eznark said:
Like I said, you know nothing about it.
So what's your solution to this? When people oppress people in a closed enviroment, the oppressed are bound to react to it sooner or later. Via violence if they happen to be sosiopathic (or just numb due to the bullying) gun nuts for example.
Yeah this is purely assumption based talk. But most of the school shooters are bullied.
Hari Seldon
Member
I dunno about blaming bullies. Was there school shootings back in the 50s and 60s, when bullying was far worse? Heck, my grandpap, a son of an immigrant, tells stories of constant bullying between the various ethnic groups back in the day. It is not like guns didn't exist back then either. So why is bullying causing sever mental health disorders now and not back then?
I honestly don't know the answer to this, just something I have thought about.
I honestly don't know the answer to this, just something I have thought about.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
Frenck said:
I personally can't wait for the day when i can stand by and watch my friends slaughtered after which I will heroicly kneel down and take a round right between the eyes, instead of using my power to stop him.
.....
Frenck said:
Why don't you just write the letter and take the civil service year? Although, personally I think every kid with the oppurtunity to do some military training in a place that isn't the US (so they don't get shipped to Iraq or Afghanistan) should do it. Discipline and responsible weapons handling is something I wish I had at a young age.
eznark said:
Yeah no. For starters kids do not snitch about bullying. So the cycle can go on for as long as the whole school lasts. Conflicts between people are natural but beating up smaller kids, stealing things/money and verbal abuse are pretty damn serious stuff. And adults most definately could do something about it.
Maybe some sort of pressure towards the asshole parents who breed the bullies.
Well kids for starters were more "kids" in those days. But as you say, it's hard to know and that subject would need some research before we could say anything coherrent about it.
Steppenwolf
Member
edit: nevermind. didnt read the updates on page 1
I dunno for about 5 years of school I was bullied. I was always told that any violence was wrong so I'd get jumped and just block the vital points and call it a day. It kept going on of course so I decided to tell the teachers and well nothing happened either. So I'm sitting here trying to rack my brain for ways to get it to stop without resorting to violence, suffice to say I was pretty stumped. So I asked my parents and they still said violence was wrong but I should be able to defend myself if I had to, so armed with that I tried fighting back one time and I got in trouble for fighting. So then I was completely confused, school refused to offer any kind of help to stop the bullying yet wouldn't allow me to take matters into my own hands. Adults were weird was all I could come up with and I had placed too much faith in their way of thinking.
Finally, I basically told the school they could fuck off, beat one guy that was bullying me one day and decided I'd rather take the schools punishment then get beat up every day. If it had kept on going with him after that I probably would have killed the kid, I shouldn't have to watch my back every day on the way home.
So my solution?
Make violence acceptable in schools. It's completely beyond reason to create a situation where you can not win by saying if you fight back your punished and if you don't fight back you get your ass kicked, and depending on the school maybe still get punished. You sacrifice the learning of true cause and effect, the true constant of humanity for a little bit of perceived order. You're holding up crazed teenage evolved ape's to a ridiculous standard of humanity that doesn't even exist in adults. It's dangerous.
Further I think it's effects are long reaching, people who never learned to fight back, generally by lack of experience suck at it so while it's a much rarer skill needed in adult life it can't be good when the only people adept at using their fists are the violent jack asses. The confidence that comes from having been in a few fights is better for more than just fighting people, it helps in all situations.
Finally, I basically told the school they could fuck off, beat one guy that was bullying me one day and decided I'd rather take the schools punishment then get beat up every day. If it had kept on going with him after that I probably would have killed the kid, I shouldn't have to watch my back every day on the way home.
So my solution?
Make violence acceptable in schools. It's completely beyond reason to create a situation where you can not win by saying if you fight back your punished and if you don't fight back you get your ass kicked, and depending on the school maybe still get punished. You sacrifice the learning of true cause and effect, the true constant of humanity for a little bit of perceived order. You're holding up crazed teenage evolved ape's to a ridiculous standard of humanity that doesn't even exist in adults. It's dangerous.
Further I think it's effects are long reaching, people who never learned to fight back, generally by lack of experience suck at it so while it's a much rarer skill needed in adult life it can't be good when the only people adept at using their fists are the violent jack asses. The confidence that comes from having been in a few fights is better for more than just fighting people, it helps in all situations.
While I agree with your means and the logic...you've got to realize how this will never fly with any parent. You're right though, school officials and some parents will tell you to talk it out, but that never works with adolescent minds. "Talking it out" will be perceived as weakness and the bullies will only be fueled more by it.mAcOdIn said:
mAcOdIn said:
A better solution would be to eradicate public schools and the tax burden that comes with them. Let parents freely and easily choose where to send their kids and bullying will dramatically decrease. The best athletes will inevitably congregate, the tradesmen will do likewise and the math nerds the same. The cliquiness won't decrease but the physical and mental imbalances will be dramatically reduced.
You can even have schools where violence is an acceptable means of conflict resolution or where people are forced to wear suits of NERF all day long.
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