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[Gary Whitta]

I like how some of the posters in this thread are somehow offended at the idea that anyone would ever pirate games, like it effects them in any way shape or form.

Some of the people who post on this forum are game developers or work at a game company in some capacity. It affects them. And even for those who are just consumers, they're perfectly right to be offended by it. You don't have to be affected by something personally to know that it's wrong - to think otherwise is typical of the kind of selfish attitude common among software pirates and other thieves.

 

[SapientWolf]

I like how some of the posters in this thread are somehow offended at the idea that anyone would ever pirate games, like it effects them in any way shape or form.

Unchecked piracy can have a negative effect on a gaming platform if it drags down software sales. It's not a 1:1 loss but it's not harmless either. Less sales = less games.

 

[Dabanton]

Some of the people who post on this forum are game developers or work at a game company in some capacity. It affects them. And even for those who are just consumers, they're perfectly right to be offended by it. You don't have to be affected by something personally to know that it's wrong - to think otherwise is typical of the kind of selfish attitude common among software pirates and other thieves.

Agree,people can throw all sorts of excuses about 'backups' and "putting it to the man" but it is all about being selfish and trying to have your cake and eat it.

 

[antiquegamer]

Yeah, I wasn't being sarcastic. Copyright infringement is not theft. Burglary isn't theft either, but people like to think everything is the same and not use the correct terms for what things are, so we get rabid monkeys flinging verbal poo in threads like this, calling copyright infringers thieves because that's the line that the media companies want you to ape. Despite the fact that legally it is not correct.

Well, from wiki

A British Government's report, Digital Britain, characterizes online piracy as a form of theft: "Unlawful downloading or uploading, whether via peer-to-peer sites or other means, is effectively a civil form of theft"

 

[Tmac]

Some of the people who post on this forum are game developers or work at a game company in some capacity. It affects them. And even for those who are just consumers, they're perfectly right to be offended by it. You don't have to be affected by something personally to know that it's wrong - to think otherwise is typical of the kind of selfish attitude common among software pirates and other thieves.

Thats same logic behind the chart i posted before.

Piracy was present on the pstwo, psone and before gens. And they all proven to profitable.

Companies are like persons, they born, mature and die. Thats how things works. Hundreds of gamming companies ceased to exist in the past, and hundreds will go bankrupt in the comming years. That has nothing to do with piracy.

Of course thats understandable that whos directly affect by those events try to find an scape goat (piracy). Just keep in mind piracy has nothing to do with that.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Well, from wiki

A British Government's report, Digital Britain, characterizes online piracy as a form of theft: "Unlawful downloading or uploading, whether via peer-to-peer sites or other means, is effectively a civil form of theft"

a report sponsored by big media no doubt...

 

[Gary Whitta]

Thats same logic behind the chart i posted before.

Piracy was present on the pstwo, psone and before gens. And they all proven to profitable.

Companies are like persons, they born, mature and die. Thats how things works. Hundreds of gamming companies ceased to exist in the past, and hundreds will go bankrupt in the comming years. That has nothing to do with piracy.

Of course thats understandable that whos directly affect by those events try to find an scape goat (piracy). Just keep in mind piracy has nothing to do with that.

And society has not yet completely collapsed because of other forms of crime. That doesn't make it tolerable. If you want to be a thief then at least be honest about your reasons why; you like getting stuff for free and don't have enough of a moral foundation to feel guilty about it. Don't try to justify it any other way, no one with an ounce of intelligence is buying it.

And this isn't as simple an issue as you'd like it to be; just because piracy doesn't bring down entire companies doesn't make it okay. If I work really hard developing a game or writing a movie that then gets pirated, while it may not affect the financial gross of the end product or what makes its way into my pocket to any significant degree, I'm still going to feel in some way violated. You stole from me. But I don't expect to get anywhere with this argument; the fact that I have to lay this out in such a basic way in order to be understood just demonstrates how far from any kind of basic moral understanding people who habitually and unrepentantly pirate media have strayed.

 

[goldenpp72]

a report sponsored by big media no doubt...

how isnt it?

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

Well, from wiki

A British Government's report, Digital Britain, characterizes online piracy as a form of theft: "Unlawful downloading or uploading, whether via peer-to-peer sites or other means, is effectively a civil form of theft"

Is that a serious retort?

 

[SapientWolf]

Thats same logic behind the chart i posted before.

Piracy was present on the pstwo, psone and before gens. And they all proven to profitable.

Companies are like persons, they born, mature and die. Thats how things works. Hundreds of gamming companies ceased to exist in the past, and hundreds will go bankrupt in the comming years. That has nothing to do with piracy.

Of course thats understandable that whos directly affect by those events try to find an scape goat (piracy). Just keep in mind piracy has nothing to do with that.

That's arguable. Those platforms you mentioned were profitable because the pirates were the minority, not because piracy is harmless. It's parasitic behavior. If there aren't enough contributors then the platform will die.

The people who are contributing are justified in being angry at those who are leeching off of them. Pirates are essentially getting a free ride off of the backs of paid customers.

 

[grap3fruitman]

I am not sure what are you getting at. At no point did I advocate that faulty hardware is OK unless you are mistaken my post for someone else.

However, faulty hardware is no reason to mod the system, be it as a "revenge" for the big bad company as an excuse to justify piracy. If you dislike Microsoft for their shitty hardware (trust me I have no love for their hardware, I have two fail 360), then don't buy their products, but to used that as excuse to mod? How is that even related? Modding hurt game developers even more whose company are relatively small compare to the like of Microsoft and Sony.

I was merely restating the opinion of that one drunk dude a few pages back in English. I do see the irony however, I'm not sure if you or anyone else does, and I do agree with druken dude to a point as well.

Under US law it's illegal.

Can you point to a law on a government website, not Wikipedia, that states making backups of your video games is illegal?

not on a console you illegally modded! :lol

Modding a console is not illegal. It is your property and you are entitled to do what you want with it.

I thought that modding your 360 has no effect on region locked titles. Is that incorrect?

No, you're correct, modding your 360's dvd drive has no effect on region locking. What are you talking about?

 

[jibblypop]

open wifi or wep + popular game = easy bans on innocents.

That makes sense, yeah.

Thanks for actually explaining it unlike the ass that just wrote LOL

 

[Man God]

I hope you legally own all the games of the roms you use on those emulators, otherwise that's all piracy my friend.

Actually, I'm pretty sure you're not legally allowed to make "backups" of games, anyway.

More importantly besides the two modern portables and the CD/DVD based systems it's highly unlikely you have the equipment to rip the cart based games. In most places even where backups are illegal it is still illegal to download copies of the game off the internet.

This is why I don't mind people playing psx/psp games on the PSP or DS/GBA games on the DS half as much as people who emulate SNES/Genny/NES games they own or "once owned". What a load of crock.

Anyways I'm glad whenever someone steps up to the plate and tries to curb piracy. In the end it's better for all of us.

 

[Psychotext]

No, you're correct, modding your 360's dvd drive has no effect on region locking. What are you talking about?

I assumed what you'd linked to was some random Japanese version of DOA. Was it something different?

 

[grap3fruitman]

I assumed what you'd linked to was some random Japanese version of DOA. Was it something different?

Gameplay tweaks.

 

[The Faceless Master]

I assumed what you'd linked to was some random Japanese version of DOA. Was it something different?

modded version of the game, those Kokoro outfits aren't selectable in the normal game, they're in the start screen b-roll footage only, and the move properties are modified in the other video to tweak/balance the gameplay.

 

[The Faceless Master]

That makes sense, yeah.

Thanks for actually explaining it unlike the ass that just wrote LOL

yeah, some people think that because something is obvious to them, it's obvious to everyone else. i've helped my friends and family way too much with tech related stuff way too much to make that assumption.

 

[larvi]

I was merely restating the opinion of that one drunk dude a few pages back in English. I do see the irony however, I'm not sure if you or anyone else does, and I do agree with druken dude to a point as well.


Can you point to a law on a government website, not Wikipedia, that states making backups of your video games is illegal?


Modding a console is not illegal. It is your property and you are entitled to do what you want with it.


No, you're correct, modding your 360's dvd drive has no effect on region locking. What are you talking about?

IANAL but it's my understanding that if you circumvent encryption or disable a protection scheme when modding a console or copying a disc then it is now illegal in the US thanks to that "wonderful" DMCA law:

http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/openlaw/DVD/1201.html

 

[Ember128]

I stopped playing MGS4 Online for the most part because I would fight tooth and nail alongside all the other not-crack-elite players and on occasion make it nearly to the end in a tournament, and then some lag-switching team would come in and beat us. Barely anything was ever done about that.

Microsoft is banning cheating consoles? Good for them. I am 100% Legit with my 360, and cheating asstards who can't win based on their own skill shouldn't be playing online.

 

[dacuk]

Piracy could be less of a problem if game companies actually care to distribute their games in all the markets.

It is hard to blame and point with my finger at some of my friends pirating content, knowing that that is the only way for them to get the games (shops selling game copies took the place of the unexistent official distribution channels here. )

 

[minus_273]

Unchecked piracy can have a negative effect on a gaming platform if it drags down software sales. It's not a 1:1 loss but it's not harmless either. Less sales = less games.

I think the PSP is a good example of this. Developers almost abandoned it.

 

[Oozinator]

Piracy could be less of a problem if game companies actually care to distribute their games in all the markets.

It is hard to blame and point with my finger at some of my friends pirating content, knowing that that is the only way for them to get the games (shops selling game copies took the place of the unexistent official distribution channels here. )

I know some friends that have the same problem: Microsoft won't honor the "global" warranty if their Xbox 360 gets RROD because they don't live in a "supported" country, no scratched disc replacement program, no free hard drive transfer cable for buying an elite, no presence of their country or its flag in games or console settings, ip region lock on several demos and even paid dlc, etc etc... basically for Microsoft these people don't exist and no games are being sold to them, so how can you expect those people to buy legit games that are not even offered for sale to them if they can have access through other cheaper means ?

 

[firehawk12]

Well, for what it's worth, Dragon Age is the latest game to be pirated and pre-released.

MS really screwed up and now all they can do is catch up, but honestly all they can do is watch as this stuff happens.

Given that the PS3 version of MW2 was somehow leaked, I have to imagine that a 360 version will start popping up very soon.

 

[Sanjuro]

Well, for what it's worth, Dragon Age is the latest game to be pirated and pre-released.

MS really screwed up and now all they can do is catch up, but honestly all they can do is watch as this stuff happens.

Given that the PS3 version of MW2 was somehow leaked, I have to imagine that a 360 version will start popping up very soon.

How?

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

I think the PSP is a good example of this. Developers almost abandoned it.

Then why haven't they abandoned the DS? Piracy is actually easier on the DS than the PSP.

 

[firehawk12]

By leaving all their system so easy to hack in the first place?

I'm not technically savvy enough to understand how the hack works, but I take it it's as easy as opening up the 360 and flashing the firmware on the DVD drive. That's easier than piracy on a PC and that's what people point to when it comes to a dead platform with 0 sales due to piracy.

And looks like I was wrong - MW2 is already out, as pointed out by someone on the last page.

I'm sure the sales lost for BioWare and IW are trivial, but you have to imagine that someone somewhere must be pissed that their games are floating around out there and people can easily access and play them on a supposedly "closed" system.

I think in terms of long term effect on the 360 brand, this is more damaging than the RRoD. Buy a 360, get free games before they are even released!

 

[see5harp]

Then why haven't they abandoned the DS? Piracy is actually easier on the DS than the PSP.

Not really. With the PSP you don't need to buy anything at all. The reason developers haven't abandoned the DS is because it still sells shitloads of software. Even with a higher rate of piracy on the DS, you have to assume with install base and software sales history, you'd still bet on DS over PSP.

 

[TheSeks]

How?

DVD Firmware being easy to crack, I would guess.

But frankly, shit is going to get cracked eventually, no matter what they do. PS3 will eventually (if there is interest/blah, blah, blah) just like the 360 was.

 

[Sanjuro]

By leaving all their system so easy to hack in the first place?

I'm not technically savvy enough to understand how the hack works, but I take it it's as easy as opening up the 360 and flashing the firmware on the DVD drive. That's easier than piracy on a PC and that's what people point to when it comes to a dead platform with 0 sales due to piracy.

And looks like I was wrong - MW2 is already out, as pointed out by someone on the last page.

I'm sure the sales lost for BioWare and IW are trivial, but you have to imagine that someone somewhere must be pissed that their games are floating around out there and people can easily access and play them on a supposedly "closed" system.

I think in terms of long term effect on the 360 brand, this is more damaging than the RRoD. Buy a 360, get free games before they are even released!

How is that Microsoft's fault? I can watch a pirated movie, DVD, Nintendo game, computer program, tv rips...all while getting a blowjob from a hooker and copying that floppy.

 

[see5harp]

I'm not technically savvy enough to understand how the hack works, but I take it it's as easy as opening up the 360 and flashing the firmware on the DVD drive. That's easier than piracy on a PC and that's what people point to when it comes to a dead platform with 0 sales due to piracy.

I think in terms of long term effect on the 360 brand, this is more damaging than the RRoD. Buy a 360, get free games before they are even released!

Piracy on PC is much easier.

I have no idea what you are talking about. The RROD was all over major media outlets. Hacked DVD firmware is not even local news. Even if 10% of 360 users are pirating games (not likely) it's not a concern for MS. It's just a little jab to let the thieves know that they are still breathing.

 

[PG2G]

Its kind of funny that people think Xbox 360 is super easy to hack or something. You guys must not have been around for Dreamcast, Playstation, or pretty much any disc-based console before this generation.

 

[firehawk12]

I'm talking about on the publisher front. Every single major game that I can think of has been leaked early, including every one of MGS's own releases - Fable 2, Gears 2? Both leaked and MS could do nothing but watch as people played them online.

Like I said, I'm sure the losses to piracy on the 360 are negligible, but that when designing the 720 or XXXBox or whatever, publishers are going to demand increased piracy protection on the system.

And, it's MS's fault because it's their closed platform - just like the Wii hacks are Nintendo's problem. It's just that Nintendo is taking active steps to at least try to stop the modchip scene on the hardware side while the best MS can seemingly do is console bans.

 

[PG2G]

Once media of any sort starts getting pressed, you might as well consider it leaked. So yeah, there are plenty of pre-releases, just like with music.

But yeah, I'm sure they will take lessons learned into consideration when designing the next consoles.

 

[Sanjuro]

I'm talking about on the publisher front. Every single major game that I can think of has been leaked early, including every one of MGS's own releases - Fable 2, Gears 2? Both leaked and MS could do nothing but watch as people played them online.

Like I said, I'm sure the losses to piracy on the 360 are negligible, but that when designing the 720 or XXXBox or whatever, publishers are going to demand increased piracy protection on the system.

And, it's MS's fault because it's their closed platform - just like the Wii hacks are Nintendo's problem. It's just that Nintendo is taking active steps to at least try to stop the modchip scene on the hardware side while the best MS can seemingly do is console bans.

I think you need to have a better understanding of the retail business. The games aren't leaking early, they are releasing early from the distributor.

 

[minus_273]

Then why haven't they abandoned the DS? Piracy is actually easier on the DS than the PSP.

Sony themselves have said piracy almost killed the PSP, im sure you know better.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Not really. With the PSP you don't need to buy anything at all. The reason developers haven't abandoned the DS is because it still sells shitloads of software. Even with a higher rate of piracy on the DS, you have to assume with install base and software sales history, you'd still bet on DS over PSP.

so money is the sole qualifier for easy?
DS Lite + FlashKit = PSP Price

plus, it's easier to do on a technical level. so easy a child can do it, etc...

Sony themselves have said piracy almost killed the PSP, im sure you know better.

URL?

 

[firehawk12]

I think you need to have a better understanding of the retail business. The games aren't leaking early, they are releasing early from the distributor.

The source doesn't matter, does it? If you couldn't copy a game and play it, then maybe only a few people in France have an early copy of Halo 3 ODST instead of the entire world.

However MW2 and Dragon Age got leaked, it's out there and people are playing it. More than just people who got early access to a physical copy.

 

[Mr. Enigma]

Its kind of funny that people think Xbox 360 is super easy to hack or something. You guys must not have been around for Dreamcast, Playstation, or pretty much any disc-based console before this generation.

No kidding, sir. I was acquaintances with a bunch of white trash back in the late-90s who knew nothing about technology, but would go rent PS1 games from Blockbuster every weekend and make illegal copies of them.

Let's not even talk about how easy it was to play pirated games on the Dreamcast.

 

[Sanjuro]

The source doesn't matter, does it? If you couldn't copy a game and play it, then maybe only a few people in France have an early copy of Halo 3 ODST instead of the entire world.

However MW2 and Dragon Age got leaked, it's out there and people are playing it. More than just people who got early access to a physical copy.

...because it is street-dated....

It's pretty simple really. The game doesn't copy itself.

 

[TheHeretic]

And society has not yet completely collapsed because of other forms of crime. That doesn't make it tolerable. If you want to be a thief then at least be honest about your reasons why; you like getting stuff for free and don't have enough of a moral foundation to feel guilty about it. Don't try to justify it any other way, no one with an ounce of intelligence is buying it.

And this isn't as simple an issue as you'd like it to be; just because piracy doesn't bring down entire companies doesn't make it okay. If I work really hard developing a game or writing a movie that then gets pirated, while it may not affect the financial gross of the end product or what makes its way into my pocket to any significant degree, I'm still going to feel in some way violated. You stole from me. But I don't expect to get anywhere with this argument; the fact that I have to lay this out in such a basic way in order to be understood just demonstrates how far from any kind of basic moral understanding people who habitually and unrepentantly pirate media have strayed.

The issue is more complicated than that, sorry. The internet is about the free exchange of information, and will always be. One person taking data and sharing it with another is what the internet is all about.

Sure, downloading media for free isn't a good thing, but its always going to exist. Its hard to feel sorry for the video game industry when they insist on making the same mistakes the music industry did over a decade ago.

 

[see5harp]

so money is the sole qualifier for easy?
DS Lite + FlashKit = PSP Price

plus, it's easier to do on a technical level. so easy a child can do it, etc...


URL?

I never said price, I'm just referring to the fact that a kid can't just go into a Gamestop and buy a flash card. With a PSP you need no additional hardware and putting two files on a memory card isn't really all that difficult. At the end of the day piracy on PSP and DS is still easier than replacing firmware on a damn 360 disc drive.

 

[Adonymous]

While I applaud MS for taking a step against piracy, buying a banned console off of ebay is going to be a bitch.

 

[see5harp]

While I applaud MS for taking a step against piracy, buying a banned console off of ebay is going to be a bitch.

Yea, that's thing that really gets on my nerves. I really don't think piracy is hurting MS that much, and they've already started to target used software sales by making exclusive preorder and free DLC codes. Banning consoles seems like it has the added bonus of also making used console sales risky. Even if a console isn't banned with this go around what's to say a console was modded a while ago and just hasn't been online in a while?

 

[MrDaravon]

I know some friends that have the same problem: Microsoft won't honor the "global" warranty if their Xbox 360 gets RROD because they don't live in a "supported" country, no scratched disc replacement program, no free hard drive transfer cable for buying an elite, no presence of their country or its flag in games or console settings, ip region lock on several demos and even paid dlc, etc etc... basically for Microsoft these people don't exist and no games are being sold to them, so how can you expect those people to buy legit games that are not even offered for sale to them if they can have access through other cheaper means ?

I don't really disagree with your point, but I would like to point out the horribly misguided sense of entitlement in these scenarios; if you live somewhere where the product is not officially sold and supported, that doesn't give you the right to pirate or do whatever to get around that. Not saying it doesn't suck, but for example I wouldn't expect to import say a Japanese PS2 then download Japanese games for it because I can't get them here legally, or get upset that I can't get the system fixed by the manufacter, etc.

 

[tHoMNZ]

The games are getting worse the prices keep going up (ridiculous pricing), what do you retarded developers expect?

And no, my xbox isn't modded, nor is it used very often due to the above

 

[grap3fruitman]

I think the PSP is a good example of this. Developers almost abandoned it.

What about all the other handhelds in the past that have tried competing with Nintendo's handhelds in the market? Developers went where the money is and the DS has a ridiculous install base.

...because it is street-dated....

It's pretty simple really. The game doesn't copy itself.

I'd like to go and play MW2 right now, what are my options? I'd be more than willing to pay for it.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Thats same logic behind the chart i posted before.

Piracy was present on the pstwo, psone and before gens. And they all proven to profitable.

Companies are like persons, they born, mature and die. Thats how things works. Hundreds of gamming companies ceased to exist in the past, and hundreds will go bankrupt in the comming years. That has nothing to do with piracy.

Of course thats understandable that whos directly affect by those events try to find an scape goat (piracy). Just keep in mind piracy has nothing to do with that.

The games are getting worse the prices keep going up (ridiculous pricing), what do you retarded developers expect?

And no, my xbox isn't modded, nor is it used very often due to the above

By leaving all their system so easy to hack in the first place?

I'm not technically savvy enough to understand how the hack works, but I take it it's as easy as opening up the 360 and flashing the firmware on the DVD drive. That's easier than piracy on a PC and that's what people point to when it comes to a dead platform with 0 sales due to piracy.

And looks like I was wrong - MW2 is already out, as pointed out by someone on the last page.

I'm sure the sales lost for BioWare and IW are trivial, but you have to imagine that someone somewhere must be pissed that their games are floating around out there and people can easily access and play them on a supposedly "closed" system.

I think in terms of long term effect on the 360 brand, this is more damaging than the RRoD. Buy a 360, get free games before they are even released!

A centralized defense against piracy is also suggested, and things tend to go downhill quick after this. It is not a mischaracterization to say that conversations with the hardcore PC community about software theft follow these tenets:

- There is no piracy.
- To the extent that piracy exists, which it doesn't, it's your fault.
- If you try to protect your game, we'll steal it as a matter of principle.

It's like, who wouldn't want to bend over backward in their service? You need to know it, because nobody else is going to tell you: you guys sound like Goddamned subway vagrants. Of course when you speak exclusively to each other, it all sounds so reasonable.

I think I'm going to quote this every time this topic comes up. Forever.

 

[Sanjuro]

What about all the other handhelds in the past that have tried competing with Nintendo's handhelds in the market? Developers went where the money is and the DS has a ridiculous install base.


I'd like to go and play MW2 right now, what are my options? I'd be more than willing to pay for it.

I'm not sure what you are going for here. There are many cases where you can. I had both Halo 3 and Fable 2 that come to mind a week or more before the game was released and played through it. Both purchased.

If you think that a game street-dated doesn't have any effect on game leaking sooner then I just don't know what to say then. It's foolish to think otherwise.

 

[The Faceless Master]

I never said price, I'm just referring to the fact that a kid can't just go into a Gamestop and buy a flash card. With a PSP you need no additional hardware and putting two files on a memory card isn't really all that difficult. At the end of the day piracy on PSP and DS is still easier than replacing firmware on a damn 360 disc drive.

and a kid can flash a psp's firmware easier than a kid can convince his parents to 'never have to buy DS games again'?

Yea, that's thing that really gets on my nerves. I really don't think piracy is hurting MS that much, and they've already started to target used software sales by making exclusive preorder and free DLC codes. Banning consoles seems like it has the added bonus of also making used console sales risky. Even if a console isn't banned with this go around what's to say a console was modded a while ago and just hasn't been online in a while?

unless they find a way to detect modded consoles, it doesn't matter if someone buys a modded console that's not banned. they only detect games tha aren't proper copies, if they actually detected modded consoles and not just bad bootlegs, there would be a whole lot more banned people, based on how many people are saying they aren't banned in those threads on XS and elsewhere.

hey, was it a Gamefan employee that leaked MGS on PS1 like 4 months before the US release? iirc, it was something like that...

 

[grap3fruitman]

If you think that a game street-dated doesn't have any effect on game leaking sooner then I just don't know what to say then. It's foolish to think otherwise.

I can't make any sense of what you're trying to say here, mind rephrasing it so I can give you a response?