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SHOTS FIRED!!! Microsoft starts new Xbox 360 Ban Wave!!!

QuadCore said:
Done and done! Maybe NOA will reward me with something :D
I don't understand you people.

what happens if I purchased a second hand console and it was banned? how would I get access again? Wait, what is the mod that makes games pirate-able these days? I heard it was just a DVD flash or something.
 
catfish said:
I don't understand you people.

what happens if I purchased a second hand console and it was banned? how would I get access again? Wait, what is the mod that makes games pirate-able these days? I heard it was just a DVD flash or something.

Did you mean to quote me? I was talking about the crappy devices that are sold at my mall that have NES and SNES games on there.
 
What the fuck?! I was just using it for homebrew and backups! What am I supposed to do if my discs get scratched? If they don't like it, they should coat them so they can't get scratched and they should fix their shitty dvd drives.
 
The ban wave made the front page of the London edition of Metro this morning. I was kind of surprised this info to be the first thing I read on my way to work. You can read the piece here : http://e-edition.metro.co.uk/2009/11/12/

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NaviLink said:
The ban wave made the front page of the London edition of Metro this morning.

It even made it on many Spanish online newspapers XD.

Totally expected, as Spain is famous for a high pirating rate.
 
Rorschach said:
What the fuck?! I was just using it for homebrew and backups! What am I supposed to do if my discs get scratched? If they don't like it, they should coat them so they can't get scratched and they should fix their shitty dvd drives.
lol.
 
Rorschach said:
What the fuck?! I was just using it for homebrew and backups! What am I supposed to do if my discs get scratched? If they don't like it, they should coat them so they can't get scratched and they should fix their shitty dvd drives.

What homebrew? You can only play back-up games. Pirate
 
angelfly said:
Maybe you should research before you throw out accusations like that because there is homebrew on 360.

Really? I was looking into this awhile ago as I wondered if XBMC had been ported to the 360 and I found no mention of any homebrew at all.
 
angelfly said:
Maybe you should research before you throw out accusations like that because there is homebrew on 360.
Ho come on, homebrews on the 360 started like 2 months ago and it's so marginal it's not even worth mentioning.
 
Rorschach said:
What the fuck?! I was just using it for homebrew and backups! What am I supposed to do if my discs get scratched? If they don't like it, they should coat them so they can't get scratched and they should fix their shitty dvd drives.

lol

I have around 30 XBOX games, 20 PS3 games, over 100 PC games, around 60 Gamecube games, 100's of albums, over a 1000 DVD's.

None of them are scratched. NONE OF THEM.

I haven't been keeping up in this thread, but have any 'innocents' been banned? Not the innocents that have bought a banned console either.
 
Rorschach said:
What the fuck?! I was just using it for homebrew and backups! What am I supposed to do if my discs get scratched? If they don't like it, they should coat them so they can't get scratched and they should fix their shitty dvd drives.

Voting with your wallet mean you chose other product, not buying this one, breaking EULA and complaining after you have been caught. Go homebrew without Live, then.
 
intheinbetween said:
come on, homebrew on 360 is almost a joke.

Wikipedia: "Xbox 360

On March 20, 2007 it was announced that a hack using the previously discovered hypervisor vulnerability in the Xbox 360 kernel versions 4532 and 4548 had been developed to allow users to run XeLL, a Linux bootloader. The initial hack was beyond the average user and required an Xbox serial cable to be installed and a flashed DVD Drive firmware. Felix Domke, the programmer behind XeLL, has since announced a live bootable Linux CD suitable for novice users, with the capabilities to be installed to the SATA hard drive of the Xbox 360. Despite the availability of such a distribution, the Xbox 360 still isn't considered a popular platform for homebrew development, given the dependence of the exploit on the DVD-ROM being able to load a burnt DVD game, a modified version of the game King Kong, and two older kernel revisions of the console itself.

A group independent of Microsoft is working on the means to run homebrew code, as part of the Free60 project.

Note: The hypervisor vulnerability in the Xbox 360 kernel versions 4532 and 4548 was addressed by Microsoft with the release of his NXE system and dashboard update in 2008."

The only way to use homebrew is by never updating your 360 beyond a very specific firmware version from Nov 30, 2006. To anyone who tries to use the "I only modded my 360 for homebrew" excuse I say :lol :lol :lol :lol
 
MarkMclovin said:
lol

I have around 30 XBOX games, 20 PS3 games, over 100 PC games, around 60 Gamecube games, 100's of albums, over a 1000 DVD's.

None of them are scratched. NONE OF THEM.

I haven't been keeping up in this thread, but have any 'innocents' been banned? Not the innocents that have bought a banned console either.

A lot of mine are. :(

But it is the risk I take with sharing a good portion of games and movies with my son.
 
Wouldn't it be a hoot if places like Gamestop told everyone wanting to trade in a 360 "Hey, everything looks good, all we have to do now, is see if it can connect to Xbox Live and we'll be good to go. Hey, wait, where you going?"
 
DiatribeEQ said:
Wouldn't it be a hoot if places like Gamestop told everyone wanting to trade in a 360 "Hey, everything looks good, all we have to do now, is see if it can connect to Xbox Live and we'll be good to go. Hey, wait, where you going?"
I think the first thing I'd do was put X pirated game into the system and see if it loads. If it does, no trade. Hell, MS could even provide a test disc pretty easily.
 
CadetMahoney said:
that's what i'm thinking, shouldn't piracy be damaging more if its this widespread considering the 360's games sales?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=378668

"People who illegally download music from the internet also spend more money on music than anyone else, according to a new study."


Personally, I'm just amazed to see so many of these perfectly good pirate Xboxes fall victim to MS's cannons, while MS is still fucking their early adopters over, making them play an endless warranty exchange game (well, it ends abruptly after three years) by shipping out useless 1st gen units that ought to have been recalled ages ago.

I mean, can't MS collect these things, pull the mod chips, and send the better ones out to the needy hardcore? Give the first gen units to hospitals or something. "If your room's Xbox 360 croaks before you do, you win a prize! A free three month Xbox Live Gold trial! Yay MS!"
 
MarkMclovin said:
lol

I have around 30 XBOX games, 20 PS3 games, over 100 PC games, around 60 Gamecube games, 100's of albums, over a 1000 DVD's.

None of them are scratched. NONE OF THEM.

I haven't been keeping up in this thread, but have any 'innocents' been banned? Not the innocents that have bought a banned console either.
Seriously. Across all formats and applications I must have 3,000 discs, and I've never lost one to scratching, and it's not even like I handle them with gloves or something. One DVD to DVD rot, and that's it.

Psychotext said:
I think the first thing I'd do was put X pirated game into the system and see if it loads. If it does, no trade. Hell, MS could even provide a test disc pretty easily.
All the pirate would have to do is flash it back to the old firmware. It wouldn't load pirated games but it would still be banned from Live.
 
NekoFever said:
All the pirate would have to do is flash it back to the old firmware. It wouldn't load pirated games but it would still be banned from Live.
Which is why it'd be the first thing that was tested, not the last. :P
 
So in theory, XBL revenue should plummet Nov - Dec. Do they make that information public?
 
CadetMahoney said:
that's what i'm thinking, shouldn't piracy be damaging more if its this widespread considering the 360's games sales?

This is already a problem in germany. 360 Software sales are pretty poor compared to install base. Even the PS2 sales are stronger.

If you followed that charts, PS3 software was always much stronger, even when there was similar a installbase. Retailers also state that they sell 1.5-2 PS3 games for 1 360 game and the install base is not 1.5 times bigger. Recent software analysis for the first haldf of 2009 by the gfk also indicate that.

In first half of 2009 Software sales

Wii 19%
PS3 16%
Ps2 16%
360 10%

(and installbase ps3/360 was more likely to be 1.1-1.2 as this was before the SlimEffect)

As this trend is contradictionary to the fact that the 360 has a very good attachrate globally - it must be piracy.

This is just anecdotal, but everyone I know here wants a PS3 cause it's a playstation, the only reason for a 360 is piracy. Nobody who's not into message boards and follows gamingsites regulary wants a 360 because of better graphics or xbox live.

Main reason is price and piracy. A lot of people still play on the pc here, so they pick up the 360 just for some exclusive console games they can pirate, xbox live isn't a big issue for them, as they play on pc anyways.
 
Another ban story:

A friend got his 360 banned, sold it for $200 to a guy that doesn't play on Live, then bought an Elite unit. I think MS knows what its doing.
 
Moonstone said:
This is already a problem in germany. 360 Software sales are pretty poor compared to install base. Even the PS2 sales are stronger.
Have you considered that most German versions of violent games get censored and that a lot of hardcore gamers are probably importing from surrounding countries where said games aren't censored? I'm not saying that's what everyone does, but it seems like you just sort of ignored this factor in order to make your point seem more valid.
 
i'm all for reaping what you sow, but is banning live account a good solution?

pirates will still be able to play copied games, albiet without live (probably didn't to begin with). BUT now they are completely barred from actually making legitimate purchases on the marketplace.

so in the end, games will still be pirated (perhaps more so) but they lose online sales.
 
VanMardigan said:
Another ban story:

A friend got his 360 banned, sold it for $200 to a guy that doesn't play on Live, then bought an Elite unit. I think MS knows what its doing.
I'm sure they'll be absolutely thrilled to have a potential customer buying a secondhand console , pirating all the games and your friend will no doubt mod the console again at one point.
 
syllogism said:
I'm sure they'll be absolutely thrilled to have a potential customer buying a secondhand console , pirating all the games and your friend will no doubt mod the console again at one point.


Well, my friend isn't looking to mod again, and the other dude wasn't going legit anyway. So that's a net loss of 1 pirate and the sale of a new elite console. I think they'll take that. Plus, the dude who bought the console will likely at some point want to go online, since most everything on 360 pushes you in that direction, so this console is an introduction to 360 that may eventually end up in him purchasing a legit unit.
 
DaCocoBrova said:
So in theory, XBL revenue should plummet Nov - Dec. Do they make that information public?

Their accounts are still active. It looks like Microsoft are only banning consoles and not the person.

I guess revenue might drop if you mean there's a million people out there not buying stuff on Xbox Live but then I doubt pirates were buying anything anyway.

Saying that I would love to meet the person dumb enough to pirate a game then buy a map pack. You know they're out there :lol
 
grap3fruitman said:
Have you considered that most German versions of violent games get censored and that a lot of hardcore gamers are probably importing from surrounding countries where said games aren't censored? I'm not saying that's what everyone does, but it seems like you just sort of ignored this factor in order to make your point seem more valid.

But this is the case for ps3 software also. This is why I ignored it.

One could assume that the 360 user base is more hardcore and those guys do import more, but that number can't be relevant.

A big gaming website recently had a poll to find out where their users buy software.
Over 60% was at big retail chains, a big chunk was gamestop. Less than 10% import regulary. And this was a gaming website poll. The guys who import from uk might be vocal in message boards, but it's no relevant number.
 
D4Danger said:
Saying that I would love to meet the person dumb enough to pirate a game then buy a map pack. You know they're out there :lol

Isn't that better than pirating the game and not buying the map pack? Atleast some revenue is made off them.
 
D4Danger said:
Their accounts are still active. It looks like Microsoft are only banning consoles and the people.

I guess revenue might drop if you mean there's a million people out there not buying stuff on Xbox Live but then I doubt pirates were buying anything anyway.

Saying that I would love to meet the person dumb enough to pirate a game then buy a map pack. You know they're out there :lol

the guy i kno that got banned for modding bought the madden online franchise add on :lol
 
Diablohead said:
This thread is a massive trap

After reading through the first 7 pages, I would have to agree. It's one large collection of targets. I hope the following 20 pages are as much fun to read.

Anyone been keeping a tally of which fools flashed their pirate badge and that were eventually banned for it?
 
Hmmm, I'm wondering if Microsoft will in-fact make these numbers public. It is important for investors and shareholders to know.
 
Rorschach said:
What the fuck?! I was just using it for homebrew and backups! What am I supposed to do if my discs get scratched? If they don't like it, they should coat them so they can't get scratched and they should fix their shitty dvd drives.

:lol :lol

do you see what you've done to the posts after you rors ?!

well played sir
 
might not be the right thread for this, but still. Just curious after that homebrew post above.

do 360 games come with their required firmware on the disc, like Wii games do? Like if I went out and bought MW2 or some other recent game, is it going to have the NXE on the disc?
 
expy said:
Hmmm, I'm wondering if Microsoft will in-fact make these numbers public. It is important for investors and shareholders to know.

Is it really? MS makes money on every HW purchase and LIVE subscription that pirates make, as well as all of their DLC and rentals.

If anything, it's a good faith gesture to their 3rd party partners - in order to play the newest and biggest online games this fall, until there's a new workaround, those banned will have to buy legit copies on PS3 or 360.
 
ymmv said:
The only way to use homebrew is by never updating your 360 beyond a very specific firmware version from Nov 30, 2006. To anyone who tries to use the "I only modded my 360 for homebrew" excuse I say :lol :lol :lol :lol


yeah, no.

The actual big step in homebrew affects all the consoles not updated with the last summer firmware, not 2006.

Plus they have got the rebooter, an app that is capable of launching newer firmwares without updating your console (I think it launches it as an app)

It's still pretty new, but not that much. Homebrew is just starting and I believe it could become a pretty good thing (XBMC HD + a cheap banned console = fuck yes)

That reminds me, I should start looking for a old console. Shame they didn't start the bannings before the summer :D
 
Yet another Pro modding article from the BBC
"It's like telling someone their dog's just died," said one of the thousands of Xbox Live gamers who were disconnected by Microsoft recently.

The gamer had fallen victim to Microsoft's Terms of Service for its online gaming service after modifying - or "modding" - his Xbox 360.

Microsoft has not revealed precisely what kinds of modifications led to the gamers being disconnected. However, many are thought to have been using "modchips" - a microchip for a games console that is not provided or supported by the manufacturer.

The chips commonly enable a console to play unauthorised software and games.

These can include home-made games (known as homebrews), games from other manufacturers and pirate copies of mainstream games.

It is these mods - rather than the purely cosmetic ones, such as changing the console box design - that the gaming industry takes issue with.

According to Elspa (Entertainment and Leisure Software Publishers Association), the body that represents all the major games publishers in the UK, pirated videogames cost the industry up to £750m a year.

It can cost over £15m to create a game, it says, and therefore its members need to protect their returns.

Microsoft is also unequivocal in its position.

"In line with our commitment to combat piracy, and support safer and more secure gameplay for the more than 20 million members of our Xbox Live community, we are banning these modded consoles from Xbox Live," it said in a statement to the BBC.

'Worth the risk'

Despite the risks - which also include invalidating the warranty if a mod goes wrong - not all modders are deterred.

"It's not something everybody can do," says Kieran O'Neill, chief executive of gamers forum playfire.com.

"You need to be technically minded. There is a small percentage of people do it - but those who do, do it quite a lot and teach others online how to do it."

The web is awash with adverts for modkits and instruction manuals and videos compiled and uploaded by modders keen to share their skills.

University student Alex (not his real name), a regular gamer, disagrees with Mr O'Neill that it is a niche activity.

There are regular system updates and sweeps which block the hackers, but it makes no difference - within three weeks they find a new way around it.
Alex, gamer

"It doesn't seem to be particularly difficult," he says, adding that plenty of people he knows mod their consoles in order to take advantage of cheap or free games.

"In the old days - like with the Playstation 2 - people would hack consoles so they could play international games that hadn't been released in the UK yet - it was about getting them first," he told BBC News.

"Now it's more about getting more stuff than you can normally."

Some modifications mean that old games from previous consoles become playable again without purchasing an updated version.

"People think, I've owned that game, I've bought it once, I don't want to buy it again."

In addition to the recent Xbox Live mods, Alex says that "everybody" has hacked the Nintendo Wii, and that when Sony releases a firmware update for its PSP console, the firmware is easily modifiable, introducing a host of extra features that should not be on the device.

"There are regular system updates and sweeps which block the hackers," he adds. "But it makes no difference - within three weeks they find a new way around it."

'Remote control'

Some gamers feel that the control exercised by the manufacturers remotely in response to modding is unethical.

"It's a scary idea that a company that's sold you an item can change the way that item works," says gamer and systems programmer Chris Gutteridge, who has not modified any of his equipment.

He cites another recent example of online retailer Amazon withdrawing George Orwell's novel 1984 from Kindle owners after a copyright glitch in the US.

Kindle customers who had downloaded the book from the Kindle store found that it had vanished from their readers, and their account was refunded.

The concern raised by Mr Gutteridge and others is one of ownership. If a device has been fairly purchased rather than rented, he argues, it should be under the control of the purchaser rather than the manufacturer.

"I think over the next few years we will see far more of this," he adds.

"How much will people allow their freedom to be remote controlled?"
 
JodyAnthony said:
might not be the right thread for this, but still. Just curious after that homebrew post above.

do 360 games come with their required firmware on the disc, like Wii games do? Like if I went out and bought MW2 or some other recent game, is it going to have the NXE on the disc?
Yeah. A while back, I took GH: Metallica (I think) over to a friend's house without Live and it installed NXE.
 
I was surprised - this made the CBC news broadcast as well. It's rather amusing to hear old people try to pronounce Xbox without any sense of irony.
 
I'm amazed, it seems almost everyone the BBC has spoken to has been banned from XBL for doing nothing more than creating legitimate back-ups of the games they own because, as well all know, DVDs last approximately 13 days before being rendered un-readable by the earth's atmosphere.

It would seem that MS has done nothing more than ban people who are simply wielding their right to create legitimate back-ups of the games they own (or have owned, because ownership of a game lasts forever, regardless if you sell it on ebay). I bet piracy doesn't even exist on the system.

I congratulate the BBC for bringing this to my attention. Kudos to you!!
 
Apparently, most 360 consoles sold after August 2009 come with new Lite-On DVD drive firmware that is so far unhackable. Pirates buying a new console to mod them again are in for a surprise.
 
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