• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

SHOTS FIRED!!! Microsoft starts new Xbox 360 Ban Wave!!!

domlolz said:
Why are people attacking the BBC solely on that one article? One that was featured on Radio 1, no less. And not actually written by a BBC journalist?
Click to expand...

The BBC are responsible for the content they put on their site.
 
sechsterangriff said:
Do these users also lose their gold subscription?
It would be funny if you still had to pay Microsoft for live even though you're banned. :lol :lol :lol
Click to expand...

doesn't look like it. The XBL account remains active.

I guess the thinking here is they'll just buy another Xbox.
 
BBC has put up articles that downplay both companies (Sony, Microsoft) for their hardware failure rates, however, it's not really possible for them to publish any articles such as the ones relevant to the recent ban wave because, well, you can't pirate games on PS3 and online is free. The fact that you can pirate games on 360 practically since it's launch in addition to having to pay for online services is what's prompting all these articles on the web. Not to mention potentially 1/30th of the installed base being banned at the same time.
 
QuadCore said:
EULAS have not and never will hold up in court.
Click to expand...
There was a post a couple of pages back (in response to one of my own posts) with a wikipedia link pretty much showing that they have held up in court. If there is precedent, that's all it takes. I'm not about to go searching for that specific post, but here you go:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_license_agreement
Wikipedia said:
Whether shrink-wrap licenses are legally binding differs between jurisdictions, though a majority of jurisdictions hold such licenses to be enforceable. At particular issue is the difference in opinion between the courts in Klocek v. Gateway and Brower v. Gateway. Both cases involved a shrink-wrapped license document provided by the online vendor of a computer system. The terms of the shrink-wrapped license were not provided at the time of purchase, but were rather included with the shipped product as a printed document. The license required the customer to return the product within a limited time frame if the license was not agreed to.
Click to expand...
Some more:
Wikipedia said:
Further, in ProCD v. Zeidenberg, the license was ruled enforceable because it was necessary for the customer to assent to the terms of the agreement by clicking on an "I Agree" button in order to install the software.
Click to expand...
So, unless you're talking about international court/non-states law, then I think EULAs have been deemed legally binding. There is precedent.
 
Psychotext said:
That's valid if you're talking about your legal rights... but I'd really like to see someone try and make it stand up when talking about their rights to access a company's services.
Click to expand...
In the end, any loophole or inconsistency you find in the EULA that allows you to use law to build an argument is perfectly valid in court. Also, most laws will just plain out void EULA statements altogether.
 
MrPing1000 said:
Is there some way I can use this to make more people buy gaming pc's?
Click to expand...

Yes.

Tell them they can pirate MW2 on PC just as easily as they can on the 360. Bonus! They can play it on IW.net

*DANCE MY PUPPETS AND KILL PC GAMING, DANCE!*

sechsterangriff said:
Do these users also lose their gold subscription?
Click to expand...

No, they don't. Unless they do XBL terms of service violations. The console is the only thing banned.

What screws up for them is:

They can't move saves to a new console without it being corrupted.
DRM for that console is lost, because the console is banned from Live so they can't transfer data.

Basically, it's locking them out but making them give $50 a year to MS.

Why anyone mods their X-boxes and goes on Live WILLINGLY with $50/year is beyond me. It was the same damn way for the original X-box.
 
expy said:
In the end, any loophole or inconsistency you find in the EULA that allows you to use law to build an argument is perfectly valid in court. Also, most laws will just plain out void EULA statements altogether.
Click to expand...
Yes, but beyond that wouldn't you need to build a case saying you have a legal right to access a company's services?

Someone tried suing Sony twice for being banned from the PSN, and failed both times. (Though he was banned because he was being an asshole)
 
Just as any other XBOX news, this doesn't really come up on News sites in Germany. Which could be for all sorts of reasons, but I'll go with "Germany <3 PS3"
 
Psychotext said:
Yes, but beyond that wouldn't you need to build a case saying you have a legal right to access a company's services?

Someone tried suing Sony twice for being banned from the PSN, and failed both times. (Though he was banned because he was being an asshole)
Click to expand...
I think the scale has to be taken into consideration too. But, really, it comes down to how you spin your argument. I know that here in Canada (may differ from province to province) we're pretty well protected against digital rights (EULA, TOS).
 
I don't condone piracy, but I personally believe Microsoft messed up big time. Corrupting someone's data is a huge infringement and I do think there will be a class action lawsuit.
 
I love that banning modded consoles is some how proof that "prices need to come down", yet the same week COD:MW2 sells just under 5 million copies in a day.

Downloading games for free is devaluing the whole experience to them, and as soon they're expected to pay anything it's already too much.
 
QuadCore said:
I don't condone piracy, but I personally believe Microsoft messed up big time. Corrupting someone's data is a huge infringement and I do think there will be a class action lawsuit.
Click to expand...
As has been pointed out already, the data is not corrupt. It still works on the unit the user purchased and modified. The data is simply being invalidated for use on any other unit.

And everyone just drop the class action crap. In order to prove a class action lawsuit is warranted, you first have to prove that a class exists, and then it is being wronged. They'll never get past step 1 cause in this case, the class is made up purely of thieves.
Don't try and hide behind homebrew either, because anyone who is really interested in homebrew has already passed a self-induced ban on themselves. Meaning, they have NOT connected to Live in several months, because they would be forced to update to a dashboard that closes the homebrew backdoor.
There is 1 reason, and 1 reason only to mod an Xbox 360. Piracy.
 
Psychotext said:
Sorry, yeah, you can't move it once that console has been banned, but it's still working fine there. I think we have different definitions of corrupted though. By that definition, unmovable game saves are also corrupted.

(That's of course ignoring the fact that you can download a working copy of your profile from XBL... which will be recent given you would have to have been playing online to get banned)
Click to expand...

from what I've read, you can simply hex edit the profile to uncorrupt it. It's an extra step, but the people who will want to do this can still move profiles from a banned 360.
 
Spasm said:
And everyone just drop the class action crap. In order to prove a class action lawsuit is warranted, you first have to prove that a class exists, and then it is being wronged. They'll never get past step 1 cause in this case, the class is made up purely of thieves.
Click to expand...
Yea, don't think that's exactly the case.
 
bkfount said:
from what I've read, you can simply hex edit the profile to uncorrupt it. It's an extra step, but the people who will want to do this can still move profiles from a banned 360.
Click to expand...

And this is why game saves are locked to the banned console. If a profile can be hex-edited to their advantage, so can a game save or other file. Get all the best parts and cars for Forza Motorsport 3 on day one and compete online? Well that's not fair. Take your sweet time in GTA IV then edit your completion time down to win a prize in real life? It could've happened.

If there is a chance that the files could've been altered, then they can't be allowed on Live, and a modded console offers that ability.
 
Looking back, I could have shortened all of that by saying "Look at the Wii's situation online".

That's reason enough to keep the saves and files segregated from the Live community.
 
expy said:
Yea, don't think that's exactly the case.
Click to expand...
Care to elaborate? If you're referring to purchasers of secondhand, banned Xboxes, well yes, that is unfortunate, but it isn't Microsoft who's fucked them over. It's the very people you're trying to defend.
 
Spasm said:
There is 1 reason, and 1 reason only to mod an Xbox 360. Piracy.
Click to expand...

This.

Was reading that BBC thing... 'there are legit reasons for modding a console'

Well yes. The PSP mods offer added functions through homebrew, but the 360 is only modded for piracy, pure and simple.
 
Zabka said:
Downloading games for free is devaluing the whole experience to them, and as soon they're expected to pay anything it's already too much.
Click to expand...

I think this is pretty accurate for most pirates.
 
Spasm said:
Care to elaborate? If you're referring to purchasers of secondhand banned Xboxes, well yes, that is unfortunate, but it isn't Microsoft who's fucked them over. It's the very people you're trying to defend.
Click to expand...
That's who I'm referring to. It's unfortunate, and well, it is Microsoft who screwed them over, willingly or not. I do understand the whole "buyer beware" slogan when buying used, but there isn't a system in place that allows those victims to know about the possible implications when buying used. It is usually in the best interest of the manufacturer to release information to users in a way that can help them understand the consequences of buying their products second-hand.
itsgreen said:
This.

Was reading that BBC thing... 'there are legit reasons for modding a console'

Well yes. The PSP mods offer added functions through homebrew, but the 360 is only modded for piracy, pure and simple.
Click to expand...
Not completely true, for the majority it is used for piracy, but there is a small (and probably negligible) homebrew community out there.
 
Brannon said:
And this is why game saves are locked to the banned console. If a profile can be hex-edited to their advantage, so can a game save or other file. Get all the best parts and cars for Forza Motorsport 3 on day one and compete online? Well that's not fair. Take your sweet time in GTA IV then edit your completion time down to win a prize in real life? It could've happened.

If there is a chance that the files could've been altered, then they can't be allowed on Live, and a modded console offers that ability.
Click to expand...

You don't have to mod your console to mod a save file. You plug in your 360 harddrive to the computer and hex edit it.
 
expy said:
That's who I'm referring to. It's unfortunate, and well, it is Microsoft who screwed them over, willingly or not. I do understand the whole "buyer beware" slogan when buying used, but there isn't a system in place that allows those victims to know about the possible implications when buying used. It is usually in the best interest of the manufacturer to release information to users in a way that can help them understand the consequences of buying their products second-hand.
Click to expand...
Purchasers of second hand Xboxes are not Microsoft customers. No money has gone from the unfortunate purchaser's wallet into Microsoft coffers. No transaction has transpired between the two, and as such, Microsoft is not liable. It sucks, it really does, but don't blame Microsoft.

I DO agree that MS could be doing more to educate customers about the dangers of being a victim of piracy, without being a pirate. Me and Psychotext suggested they make a disc image available that anyone could download and burn. Take that disc with you to Gamespot, or the back-alley agreed upon in the Craigslist post, and insist on trying it out before agreeing to the purchase.
Not completely true, for the majority it is used for piracy, but there is a small (and probably negligible) homebrew community out there.
Click to expand...
That are already self-banned off of Xbox Live.
 
QuadCore said:
You don't have to mod your console to mod a save file. You plug in your 360 harddrive to the computer and hex edit it.
Click to expand...

True, but this more along the lines of Microsoft defending why they would lock saves to the console. And in a way it still applies. Was the save or file from a backup was altered due to the way the backup was made? Maybe it wasn't, and is the same as a save from a legitimate game, but if there is even a chance that it's not, then it still can't be allowed on Live.

Basically, data registered to an altered system is guilty until proven innocent.
 
johnnysix said:
I know it's maybe not a subject people want to talk about but there was widespread piracy on all the biggest systems of each generation since the Playstation. Do people really think this doesn't have an influence on system sales? This is really the first time we've ever had a real visibility of that because of the online capabilities. The DS is huge, do you think piracy plays no part in this? I'm neither advocating piracy nor criticizing these systems, I'm just saying that it seems like a major factor. It's hardly surprising.
Click to expand...
iam.rass said:
pretty much, its ridiculous down here in aus. I know a few people who pirate. And a middle aged woman I used to work with asked me to help her make an R4 work on her son's DS because I "know about games" and they are "too expensive." so she thought she had a great deal with 20 games on an SD card for $20 at the market. Fuck people.
Click to expand...
At least here in Braziloland the fact that there were pirate games for both the PS1 and PS2 made them popular. I´m pretty sure the number of Playstations here would be much, much smaller without it.

No official support (the PS2 still isn´t officially sold here, 9 years after its launch) and games being sold for half (or more) the national minimum wage were often used as argument: "If Sony doesn´t care about Brazilian gamers why would we care about Sony?"

People expected that the official launch of the Xbox360 would change things for better. Official support and more distribution would lead to cheaper games and accessories, a virtuous cicle that, although wouldn´t kill piracy, would at least make it less attractive. But in the end the US$900 price tag (US$1500 at launch) and expensive games turned it in the "new PS2". In fact it´s not uncommon hearing: "I´ll buy a imported (and cheaper than the official kit) 360 just because it has pirated games like the PS2" or "Does it has pirated games like the PS2? It does! So Xbox360 it is".

So, although bizarre and fucked up, the success of consoles here seems to be linked to piracy.
And, no surprise, the big number of "My 360 was banned!" posts in Brazilian forums. :lol
Followed by the "Fuck MS, I´ll buy a PS3 now!!!" rants. :lol :lol
Followed by the "Ok, I´ll buy a new 360 to play MW2 online!" posts. :lol :lol :lol

Talking about it:
Atrophis said:
I particularily enjoyed the heart rending storing of a pirate who has "saved £600 on games" but is now considering switching to PS3 because he's been banned.
Click to expand...
I really do not understand their logic. So he´s a pirate, but now he´s moving to the only non-pirated system? How is Mr. Rarrrr pretending to "save £600 on games" exactly?

How about not pirating on the 360, not being banned and avoiding all this hustle to begin with?

No... That would make sense.
 
Youta Mottenai said:
Followed by the "Fuck MS, I´ll buy a PS3 now!!!" rant. :lol :lol .
Click to expand...

Pirates are so used to getting games for free on 360 that when MS bans their system they would rather buy another more expensive (and, I believe, currently unhackable) console with a fundamentally different game library than just re-buy an Xbox and start, you know, actually paying for 360 games.

Is this a good example of cognitive dissonance?
 
jetjevons said:
Pirates are so used to getting games for free on 360 that when MS bans their system they would rather buy another more expensive (and, I believe, currently unhackable) console with a fundamentally different game library than just re-buy an Xbox and start, you know, actually paying for 360 games.

Is this a good example of cognitive dissonance?
Click to expand...

I do think a number of people will do this. It's not even that expensive of a transition if they can dump their banned 360 for $100.
 
bkfount said:
I do think a number of people will do this. It's not even that expensive of a transition if they can dump their banned 360 for $100.
Click to expand...

The only real logic I can see behind this is that the pirate can keep their banned 360 and play all offline games on it, and buy a PS3 and play online games on it without the XBL charge. In my opinion PSN doesn't compare equally to XBL, but perhaps for a lot of people piracy was offsetting the charge of XBL. In effect you still have 2 systems, even if one is gimped. Microsoft have obviously morally and legally made the right move by banning these boxes, but it may backfire on them to some extent. For a lot of people it will come down to how many people in their online community make the switch.
 
This is so dumb. MS should just brick the systems.
I like how all the pirates think their righteous.
"I BOUGHT TAH CONSOLE WITH MONEYZ DAMMIT I CAN STEAAL GAMEZ FU m$!"
 
johnnysix said:
Microsoft have obviously morally and legally made the right move by banning these boxes, but it may backfire on them to some extent. For a lot of people it will come down to how many people in their online community make the switch.
Click to expand...
The only thing they really stand to lose is a little xbl gold income and possibly some DLC income. That's quite quickly offset even if only a few people go legit.
 
Moussi said:
This is so dumb. MS should just brick the systems.
I like how all the pirates think their righteous.
"I BOUGHT TAH CONSOLE WITH MONEYZ DAMMIT I CAN STEAAL GAMEZ FU m$!"
Click to expand...
The thing is, Microsoft aren't really telling them what they can and can't do with their console.

They're just telling them they can't do it on Xbox Live.
 
octopusman said:
Jesus these craiglist XBOX360s are dirt cheap for people who don't use live, $100? you've got to be kidding me.
Click to expand...
I'm starting to wonder if this will affect their numbers next month. Is it possible that potential customers will now opt for a cheaper used alternative if they don't plan on playing online? It's a pretty bad outcome if it does happen more often, no income for the hardware company and no sales for the software company.
 
so if i buy a banned console, will i still be able to do everything but play online? I been looking for a hdmi elite and i dont have xbox live anyway. Like can i still get fw update and things like that?
 
Hell, I might buy a banned console for my nephew. He doesn't have online at his place, so no loss there.

Best Christmas ever.

Waitaminit... OMG.

They can still be used for 360 LAN parties! Burn a few copies and start tournaments and shit. There is always a way!
 
USC-fan said:
so if i buy a banned console, will i still be able to do everything but play online? I been looking for a hdmi elite and i dont have xbox live anyway. Like can i still get fw update and things like that?
Click to expand...

Except install games and use those saves from that banned console on a legit console, yes.
 
USC-fan said:
so if i buy a banned console, will i still be able to do everything but play online? I been looking for a hdmi elite and i dont have xbox live anyway. Like can i still get fw update and things like that?
Click to expand...
You'll have to go manual mode for FW updates, I think... You won't be able to install games to your HDD... And if you ever do decide you want to get on Live, your profile, saved games, etc. will not transfer over to a new, unbanned Xbox.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

[Tom Warren] Microsoft’s new Xbox chief starts making her mark
2 3 4 5
209
1K
mckmas8808 replied
[WC] Microsoft and Xbox are "actively investigating" a rampant 'can't connect' issue for backwards compatible Xbox 360 games
2
58
280
Tobimacoss replied
VAC ban wave
News 
28
2K
Holammer replied
Microsoft Xbox Helix My Thoughts
45
156
Magic Carpet replied
The Verge: Microsoft brings Xbox back, scraps Microsoft Gaming
2
85
482
HerjansEagleFeeder replied
Top Bottom