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[Zaptruder]

This thread stared idiotically. Oh Noes our summer breaks!

good to see the turn around in opinion in the last page. At least what I skimmed of it.

 

[leroidys]

Yes it should be shrunk down. I've read many articles about how well students would do. There would be more days added to winter and spring break to make up for it.

If I recall correctly, students in South Korea were ranked top in the world in scores. Even though they go to school year round, they actually attend school less in hours per year. More free time!

And 10x more time in cram schools!

 

[kswiston]

Ontario (education systems differ by provinces in Canada)

- 2 weeks in December and January for the Holidays
- 1 week in March
- 9-10 weeks in the summer (late June to early September)

There are also 4-6 Professional Development days throughout the year where students are off but teachers work. Usually these are on a Friday.

Kids go to school ~190 days a year. A person who worked full time, 5 days a week wwith two weeks of vacation would work ~245 days a year.

EDIT: Fixed that last sentence.

 

[LProtag]

I've recently learned that speaking about education in terms of money and profit can undermine some of the important goals of education. Then again, as an educator my goal is to give students critical thinking skills and the ability to question the world around them, not to make them profitable workers. Schools run like businesses aren't good for enriching student's minds. Some people think that's the point of school though.

 

[SouthernDragon]

Summer vacation should be a month. 6 weeks at most.

 

[Schadenfreude]

And I'm sure that benefited you greatly.

I became the very best, like no one ever was, bro.

Obviously Pokemon Silver would be unplayable during the many other breaks children would get to replace summer break.

After all it's not like anyone is suggesting that kids go to school any more; just that their breaks are divvied up.

Imo, that would be worse. Students would still forget stuff and be less productive with the added downside of morale being low thanks to having to go to school year round.

 

[PJV3]

I should really leave the topic. Debates where the majority doesn't understand the subject of discussion are frustrating.

That wasn't aimed at you, it was a post about increasing the school year, not rearranging it.
I would have preferred an extra week off at Christmas as a kid.

 

[FreeMufasa]

I remember dat fool in da Recess movie tried da same shit. He ended up in prison.

 

[Seth C]

Fuck no. There is more to life than school. Seriously, leave kids with a chance to learn something other than school, which has devolved in to nothing more than learning what you need for achievement tests. The system is broken, but summer break isn't the problem.

 

[whitehawk]

Having 2 weeks off every two months is different than having all summer off and no breaks. It's more consistent time off which lets kids unwind more frequently and gives them more opportunities to catch up if they fall behind. It's not here and there, it's incredibly frequent and only not a possibility because all that time off is being used in one chunk.

The way people were reacting reminded me of the way my fellow students reacted in grade school when we had this debate. They weren't thinking then, and looking at many of the people who responded they weren't thinking now. Sorry about the caps, it was just easier than quoting the numerous people who obviously didn't understand the issue.

You're right though, the fact that people react this way should clue me in that this is a very emotional debate. Thankfully my poor parody hooked me somebody who looks like they're actually willing to discuss this with reason, eh?


I mean seriously I just had to look at the posts made since I quoted you to find somebody who clearly doesn't understand the concept. People hear that summer vacation would be gotten rid of and they... well... think about it like children.

Oh god another one.

Summer camps and sports programs wouldn't be able to function with only 2 week breaks. They are great programs for kids that require the 2+ months of summer break.

 

[LProtag]

Anyway, here's my suggestion as a high school teacher:

4 shorter breaks split up throughout the year. Teachers keep the same students as they go through each grade. Same elementary school teacher for five years, same middle school teachers for three years, same high school teachers for four years. You really only get a good sense of a student once you've been with them for the year. This is my first year working in a school and I already can attest to that.

 

[Vyer]

Some of the big problems with education don't get resolved with this.

Too much focus on standardized testing, big budget cuts leading to things like crowded classrooms, underpaid teachers and administrators....these types of things are more critical to solve IMO.

 

[Metrotab]

The cultural value of summer break is greater than any form of economic benefit it might give.

So no.

 

[bonercop]

We might not be in the top, but I still don't regret those two extra weeks of my life every year.

Those at the top have summer break too, so I highly doubt this has anything to do with it.

I think making school more personalized for each student dependent on their strengths and weaknesses is the best way to structure education and leads to a smarter population. Current school structures around the world place a lot of different shapes through the same hole so to say.

Also, obviously, don't have shit quality education. People need to consider an educated population as a huge boon for everyone and be willing to invest in it. Also, school needs to stop being treated as the place where you acquire a job license -- for a lot of people, school is where they get shaped as individuals. Don't treat it as a training camp for the future workforce.

 

[kswiston]

Summer camps and sports programs wouldn't be able to function with only 2 week breaks. They are great programs for kids that require the 2+ months of summer break.

Some ideas work well on paper, but fall apart in practice. For instance, having the summer months off means that teachers need to spend less of the year fighting their students to stay on task when all of them just want to be outside in the warm weather playing.

Anyway, here's my suggestion as a high school teacher:

4 shorter breaks split up throughout the year. Teachers keep the same students as they go through each grade. Same elementary school teacher for five years, same middle school teachers for three years, same high school teachers for four years. You really only get a good sense of a student once you've been with them for the year. This is my first year working in a school and I already can attest to that.

Do you work in the elementary panel (or are you still going through your preservice training)? Your suggestions relating to teachers following their students wouldn't work at the high school panel for many logistical reasons.

 

[Acerac]

Imo, that would be worse. Students would still forget stuff and be less productive with the added downside of morale being low thanks to having to go to school year round.

Do you have any evidence of this? Or are you just speculating? You very well may be right but I don't have any reason to believe that without the large break they'd be forgetting nearly as much, nor do I see any reason they'd be less productive. I'd honestly venture to guess that if summer vacation was never a thing, the transition to it would cause far more morale loss than vice versa.

I think you underestimate the benefit of constantly getting time off from school. When break time is always that much closer it gives much less reason to get stressed out.

That wasn't aimed at you, it was a post about increasing the school year, not rearranging it.
I would have preferred an extra week off at Christmas as a kid.

Oh, my bad, was somebody suggesting increasing the school year? I thought the OP was about rearranging it and didn't really see anyone suggesting increasing it, though maybe I just missed it.

...and yeah I totally would have loved extra vacations year round.

Summer camps and sports programs wouldn't be able to function with only 2 week breaks. They are great programs for kids that require the 2+ months of summer break.

Huh. Yeah you have a solid point there that I hadn't considered. Can't dispute that.

Some ideas work well on paper, but fall apart in practice. For instance, having the summer months off means that teachers need to spend less of the year fighting their students to stay on task when all of them just want to be outside in the warm weather playing.

...I'd assume children want to play during any point in the year?

Did people in this thread just hibernate during every month of the year that wasn't Summer? Winter is fun too!

 

[DopeToast]

Like a lot of people said, it seems to be an attempt to change something about the education system that isn't really the problem. Not that I can articulate what that problem is or how to fix it, I just don't think eliminating summer break and going to a year-round style would help. I think summer break is a great thing for kids, and it allows them to experience all that fun kid stuff before they have to become adults.

 

[whitehawk]

Huh. Yeah you have a solid point there that I hadn't considered. Can't dispute that.

Did... Did I just win an argument on the internet? Is this real life?

 

[Phoenix]

Should it? Yes. Will it - no.

I think you will find that this debate is essentially the same as the gun debate - anyone who has experience their benefit will never want to give it up and have all sorts of rationalizations why it should be continued.

 

[LProtag]

The cultural value of summer break is greater than any form of economic benefit it might give.

Who says school can't be cultural? Who says school is economic in its purposes?

For some kids school is an escape from their troubled home lives. This is generally for students in poverty or with terrible family situations. Some of these kids enjoy their time at school more than anything else.

 

[TheKaeptain]

Cut it down to 1 month.

 

[LProtag]

Do you work in the elementary panel (or are you still going through your preservice training)? Your suggestions relating to teachers following their students wouldn't work at the high school panel for many logistical reasons.

I'm in pre-service training at the secondary level. It certainly can work, though I understand it would be much more troubling in science which requires different certifications for different classes. At the very least it should be possible to keep students with the same teachers for two years, or as many of their teachers as they can.

If tracking is an issue, well, students are over-tracked as it is.

 

[MC Safety]

You know, I say let children be children. Give them time to play and grow outside of the schools.

There are a lot of problems with the schools. Extending the school year will not address these problems. It's just throwing more time and more resources after bad results.

It's possible to fix what's wrong with schools and keep summer vacations intact.

 

[Phoenix]

A two to three week break every couple of months would be an infinitely better system. The only downside I see is that teachers wouldn't be able to pick up supplemental income during the summer, but as far as education goes, there aren't really any arguments against it.

It really wouldn't be necessary because you'd be paying them more consistently throughout the year. Certainly, the teachers union would/should use this as the basis of having a higher standard salary and the school systems can look at this as a way to more normalize their benefits at their salary level.

 

[Acerac]

Did... Did I just win an argument on the internet? Is this real life?

*Shrug* I'm not so bullheaded as to think eliminating summer vacation is a flawless idea. I just think the positives outweigh the negatives, and quite frankly yours is the first one that I've seen that I can agree with as reasonable.

You know, I say let children be children. Give them time to play and grow outside of the schools.

There are a lot of problems with the schools. Extending the school year will not address these problems. It's just throwing more time and more resources after bad results.

It's possible to fix what's wrong with schools and keep summer vacations intact.

Nobody is asking for that. Who are all these people debating against?

 

[jett]

Since I'm no longer in school, go ahead, watch me care. Cry moar kiddies.

 

[Paches]

You know, I say let children be children. Give them time to play and grow outside of the schools.

There are a lot of problems with the schools. Extending the school year will not address these problems. It's just throwing more time and more resources after bad results.

It's possible to fix what's wrong with schools and keep summer vacations intact.

More instruction time results in better scores. This is a fact. The biggest problem with kid's grades is home lifestyle.

 

[LProtag]

My main point here is that having teachers be with their students for a longer period of time and giving them the ability to form deeper relationships will lead to a richer education for those students. That can be done by having a teacher be with their students an entire year without a giant break, switching to block scheduling, having teachers teach the same students for more than one year, or many other ways.

 

[Vermillion]

I will fight you. Ever seen the Recess movie? Yeah.

I remember dat fool in da Recess movie tried da same shit. He ended up in prison.

My man.

 

[user8503492]

Ive wondered this but would hate to deprive my kid of the joys of summer, maybe a reduction in its length but not totally abandoning it.

What does strike me as odd is the amount of time students get off during the year.
If you add up single days for basic holidays (MLK, President B-days, Columbus day) then you add in "In service" days, Teacher Conferences, half days, and then long breaks like Christmas and Easter....
You notice a kid goes to school a max 2 weeks before they have long weekends, sometimes 7-10 days.
Hardly a month goes by where a student goes to school a whole month.
_
This January alone my son had 3 school days off...after a week in Dec. Xmas.. Feb will be 2+ days I think, March will be Easter Vacation, April, May, June etc..all these months too will be packed with 2,3,4 days (maybe more plusa half days) leading up to too 2 months of Vacation..

 

[EMT0]

Everything in here is so kneejerk. Did none of you ever simply get bored by the end of your summer break? Because my whole graduating year complained about the end of it(unless they were on vacation at the time).

Don't increase the number of school days, just shift some of the vacation time to the Spring and Winter breaks. Jesus Christ people, summer break is far from holy and doesn't necessarily mean canceling it all-together. It doesn't have to be three months of letting the thinking prowess of students turn to mush. I was one of the 'smart kids' and I sure as hell know that I felt less intelligent whenever I returned to school after the summer break.

 

[Seth C]

Should it? Yes. Will it - no.

I think you will find that this debate is essentially the same as the gun debate - anyone who has experience their benefit will never want to give it up and have all sorts of rationalizations why it should be continued.

So you're saying people who have experienced something good will fight to stop it from being stolen from others?

Okay, good?

 

[LumpOfCole]

Wasn't this James Woods's evil plot in 'Recess: School's Out' ?

 

[user8503492]

Everything in here is so kneejerk. Did none of you ever simply get bored by the end of your summer break? Because my whole graduating year complained about the end of it(unless they were on vacation at the time).

Don't increase the number of school days, just shift some of the vacation time to the Spring and Winter breaks. Jesus Christ people, summer break is far from holy and doesn't necessarily mean canceling it all-together. It doesn't have to be three months of letting the thinking prowess of students turn to mush. I was one of the 'smart kids' and I sure as hell know that I felt less intelligent whenever I returned to school after the summer break.

And..
Teachers spend the first few weeks it seems "refreshing" students, not teaching new stuff.
Well maybe some new stuff but it seems Sept. is usually 75%the going over what you learned the year before and 25%the new shit.

 

[Rastafarian42]

End Summer break dem's fighting words...

 

[jtb]

Honestly, my summer breaks fucking sucked so I wouldn't have minded them being replaced by shorter breaks spread throughout the year. And I forgot a lot of shit over the summer (very deliberately, of course, but still...). I think it all evens out in the end though.

 

[Acerac]

So you're saying people who have experienced something good will fight to stop it from being stolen from others?

Okay, good?

Good things can never be changed for the better and we shouldn't bother trying!

 

[PJV3]

Oh, my bad, was somebody suggesting increasing the school year? I thought the OP was about rearranging it and didn't really see anyone suggesting increasing it, though maybe I just missed it.

No, its my fault I should have quoted the post.
It was to do with politicians pledging to increase the school year.

I just wanted to rage

 

[kswiston]

I'm in pre-service training at the secondary level. It certainly can work, though I understand it would be much more troubling in science which requires different certifications for different classes. At the very least it should be possible to keep students with the same teachers for two years, or as many of their teachers as they can.

If tracking is an issue, well, students are over-tracked as it is.

I don't think you are considering the fact that individual students have their own unique timetables and course loads, and that teachers can only cover a limited number of courses.

You never get to know the majority of your students that well at the secondary level anyhow. If you are teaching 75 minute classes, you usually have 70-100 kids a semester. More if you are operating on a 5-6 period schedule. Even if you had them two years in a row, you'll be with the student for all of 200 hours while dividing your attention between them and 25-30 others.

 

[ProfessorLobo]

Obviously lately American public schools have been lacking in teaching children the skill sets needed to be competitive in the global picture, especially in STEM subjects.

From what I understand the only reason the two and a half month summer break exists, was so kids could help on the family farm back when, well more than 1% of the population produced agriculture.

Would ridding this break be a good idea? I personally don't see a need for it anymore, other than a cultural tradition. Do other countries have this long of a break for no apparent reason?

The only cons to getting rid of the break that I can think of are: more taxpayer money going towards schools (which arguably, is a good thing of course) and a nuisance to kids everywhere. Have there been any realistic bills written in terms of this?

We can also discuss other problems with the American education system here, if desired.

You people terrify me and have no real concept of effective education.

You said yourself that schools are 'lacking in teaching children' and removing the break would be a 'nuisance to kids everywhere', so how about explaining the positives of your idea first?

 

[Acerac]

No, its my fault I should have quoted the post.
It was to do with politicians pledging to increase the school year.

I just wanted to rage

No harm done.

I agree, increasing the amount of time kids spend in school is silly. That's why I want to get rid of summer vacation, it allows for way more breaks throughout the year.

Spoiler

I loved getting breaks during school they were my favorite time to be alive.

 

[MC Safety]

More instruction time results in better scores. This is a fact. The biggest problem with kid's grades is home lifestyle.

The goal of education is not better scores or better grades. You've been mislead. This teaching to the test stuff has been going on for years and has not improved the educational system or our children.

Again, throwing money and time at the problem does not address the fundamental problems with our schools. A school year that runs from September to May should be sufficient to allow, say, a child to learn to read and to develop basic math skills. Yet there are plenty of children who fail at these basic tasks. This is what we should be addressing. We should not assume that a readjustment of the school year is the panacea we are seeking. Nor should we assume that more time behind a desk is absolutely a net gain for the student.

 

[LProtag]

I don't think you are considering the fact that individual students have their own unique timetables and course loads, and that teachers can only cover a limited number of courses.

You never get to know the majority of your students that well at the secondary level anyhow. If you are teaching 75 minute classes, you usually have 70-100 kids a semester. More if you are operating on a 5-6 period schedule. Even if you had them two years in a row, you'll be with the student for all of 200 hours while dividing your attention between them and 25-30 others.

I don't think it's impossible to at least make an attempt to keep students with the same teachers. I'm not in guidance so I know little about how schedules are made, but I think an attempt should be made. I don't see why it's a bad thing to at least try to get students to spend more time with their teachers. Block scheduling would obviously help with this.

 

[Davey Cakes]

Summer break is not just a time to unwind, but a time for discovery outside the classroom. Keep it. It's not like there aren't summer programs (camps, etc.) that don't fill the time in a productive way. Don't forget about summer reading programs as well. And when students reach the right age in high school, the extra time is often spent going to part-time jobs and whatnot, which lends to real world experience which is as beneficial or more than being in a classroom.

 

[watershed]

No, its my fault I should have quoted the post.
It was to do with politicians pledging to increase the school year.

I just wanted to rage

Lengthening the school year can work as long as there are other major education reforms to go with it.

 

[ProfessorLobo]

For some kids school is an escape from their troubled home lives. This is generally for students in poverty or with terrible family situations. Some of these kids enjoy their time at school more than anything else.

What percent do you think that is? 1%?

That leaves 99% of kids where anywhere other than school is the escape.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

It shouldn't be eliminated, but I think you can reduce the time. 3 months is a long time. As a kid, I would usually start to get restless and be ready for school to start back up by the middle of August.

Reduce summer break to 2 months, and add another 3-4 weeks off during the rest of the school year.

 

[MattKeil]

Didn't you enjoy your summer breaks as kid?

My summer breaks were some of the best times of life as a kid. Tons of free to play, go outside, explore nature, go swimming, staying up super late playing video games with cousins, visiting family members in other states.

Yup, this. A thousand times.

How about we work on making the school time that's already there actually useful and effective before we start enslaving the children, hm?

 

[rCIZZLE]

What is more class time going to solve if the current system isn't working? More time to stare at walls while thinking about tits and halo?

 

[Acerac]

You people terrify me and have no real concept of effective education.

You said yourself that schools are 'lacking in teaching children' and removing the break would be a 'nuisance to kids everywhere', so how about explaining the positives of your idea first?

More vacations means more time to unwind throughout the year with more knowledge retention. This way kids have more time to catch up if they fall behind in classes and those who are ahead can get frequent breaks they deserve.

I mean you seriously need somebody to explain the obvious benefits to constant 2 week vacations?

Yup, this. A thousand times.

How about we work on making the school time that's already there actually useful and effective before we start enslaving the children, hm?

The fuck are you even talking about?

It shouldn't be eliminated, but I think you can reduce the time. 3 months is a long time. As a kid, I would usually start to get restless and be ready for school to start back up by the middle of August.

Reduce summer break to 2 months, and add another 3-4 weeks off during the rest of the school year.

Kuwabara IS the man.

What is more class time going to solve if the current system isn't working? More time to stare at walls while thinking about tits and halo?

I thought we were discussing eliminating summer vacation not adding more class time maybe one of us is in the wrong thread.