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Should removed digital games be refunded?

T

T-0800

Member
Twice in the last couple of weeks I've attempted to download a game I've bought digitally and haven't been able to as they have been removed. The first was Double Dragon on 360 and the second was Mirrors Edge on IOS.

I understand for all sorts of reason that games can be removed from a store but they aren't in my experience removed from your download history. For example Outrun can no longer be bought on PSN but I can download it to my system as it is still on my download list. I don't have a problem with that as my ability to play the game hasn't been taken away from me.

Why would I want to buy any future or current digital games when they could be taken away from me?
 
Should a company give you your money back when it takes away something you paid them to possess? Yes, I think so.
 
Companies shouldn't be able to take the games away from you. It makes no sense and the platform holders should take a stance against it
 
Wait, why the hell can't you download a game you already bought? On Steam removed games stay on your library and you can download them whenever you wish.
 
Removing content wholesale is unjustifiable and it's ridiculous that some digital distribution service providers allow it. Those who have a licence should be able to download the content it confers, regardless of whether it was free (e.g. PT) or paid for (e.g. your examples)... you know, like on the biggest one that isn't iTunes or Google Play.
 
FYI I can still download Mirror's Edge for iOS by clicking on the updates tab in the App Store then clicking on My Purchases.

Although I did have to scroll a very long time till I found it.
 
Hmm, are you sure you aren't able to?

I was able to re-download the Double Dragon trial I had years ago on my 360, so I don't see why you can't redl the game you purchased.

You may have to highlight each "Content not found" bubble until you find the DOuble Dragon dl. That's what I've had to do for certain games removed from the store.
 
I'm pretty sure their TOS always state that they are allowed to shut the game down with X amount of notice, and the law is on their side in this instance.
 
If they are not even available to redownload for people who purchased them at one point then yes, absolutely you should get your money back.
 
T-0800 said:
Twice in the last couple of weeks I've attempted to download a game I've bought digitally and haven't been able to as they have been removed. The first was Double Dragon on 360 and the second was Mirrors Edge on IOS.
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You 100% sure that you can't download that DD on 360 because they removed content from XBLA? Maybe that's just a current problem/bug on Microsoft Store because if not that's the first instance when you can't download something what you have purchased there. I've got many games which are delisted now (AB Climax, TMNT 1989, TMNT re shelled, Simpsons, MvC2, X-man, Outrun, Yaris etc) and as far i know i can download them whenever i want (though i don't have DD).
 
IIRC psn removes games from the store but let you redownload them as much as you want, i thought this was the rule for all the digital stores...
 
Of course. If you've purchased a game, you should be able to download it at a later date, even though they don't sell it anymore.
 
Where do you draw the line, though? By this logic, Microsoft now have a duty to keep Xbox Live available for the rest of time so that in 50 years, someone who bought Angry Birds once wants to re-download it.
 
Spades said:
Where do you draw the line, though? By this logic, Microsoft now have a duty to keep Xbox Live available for the rest of time so that in 50 years, someone who bought Angry Birds once wants to re-download it.
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Yeah, the future of owning classic games is going to be strange. For example the Original Xbox Live is down now so you can never download the DLC for Halo 2 etc. It will be up to modders/hackers to provide access to these files as I can't see companies having the resources to continue to make these files accessible and reach licenses agreements.
 
Spades said:
Where do you draw the line, though? By this logic, Microsoft now have a duty to keep Xbox Live available for the rest of time so that in 50 years, someone who bought Angry Birds once wants to re-download it.
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I see nothing wrong with this. After all, if one paid for this stuff, they should expect it to last forever. Otherwise, what's the point of buying digital games, if they are nothing but full trials (aka Steam free weekends) with an expiration date?
 
RionaaM said:
I see nothing wrong with this. After all, if one paid for this stuff, they should expect it to last forever. Otherwise, what's the point of buying digital games, if they are nothing but full trials (aka Steam free weekends) with an expiration date?
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Expecting it to last forever is a mistake on your part. As soon as they shut down the 360's live, you had better hope you have all your games backed up.
 
With PT, it was a free demo. It's too bad it got taken off and I'll probably never get to play it, but it was just a free demo and they can do whatever they like with it. I think people who make a stink about stuff like that are just being whiners.

With stuff you paid for, I think within a certain timeframe they should keep the files up for people to download who already bought something if a company decides they aren't going to sell it anymore. 10 years, 15 years, whatever. It's kind of tricky, but at the same time, my old games and consoles from 20 years ago don't exactly work like they did when I first got them, or not at all, so there's a life to that kind of thing and I don't think it's much of a rip off for a company to not provide a download for a game nobody plays anymore. With that kind of thing, they should probably make it available free online. Some publishers have done that with a few games now, right?

I don't think a full refund years after a game came out, when the person probably played all of the game they wanted to, is necessary. 'I bought a COD dlc for £10 in 2004 and now in 2019 you're telling me I can't play it anymore? Wow. Money back please.' doesn't sound right to me.
 
For a sake of completeness Nintendo has a no redownload policy on Yoshi's Cookie but not on other delisted games. Funnily enough they have a refund policy on one game; The Last Ninja 3 (commodore gaming and Nintendo suck badly at testing here as the game locks up after the first level due to the emulator triggering anti-piracy coding in the game). The refund required you to contact Nintendo (was not really advertised either) as the delisted game is still possible to re-download (the refund revokes your license to the game).

Spades said:
Where do you draw the line, though? By this logic, Microsoft now have a duty to keep Xbox Live available for the rest of time so that in 50 years, someone who bought Angry Birds once wants to re-download it.
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As time goes on the server costs (especially if cloud computing is taken advantage of) should become negligible due to fewer users.
 
Starwolf_UK said:
As time goes on the server costs (especially if cloud computing is taken advantage of) should become negligible due to fewer users.
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As time goes on MS (or Sony, or Valve, or Nintendo) might fold, go under, change their business model, or get brought out by someone else and the servers shut down etc

Atari went from the kings of the industry to dead in under a decade, so you never really know what will happen, buying digital will always have more risk than physical, though even physical has a risk to it (disc rot etc)

One day PSN for PS3 will be switched off, if you have all your PSN Classic PS1 games downloaded, and your PS3 dies, then you'll probably lose them, as Sony will be too busy worrying about the PS6 to faff around restoring your PS1 games, even though you paid for them
 
the_batman said:
nah, man, you only paid for the license to play the games, you don't own them! ;D
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Well, it's true. You don't own your games, you're merely licensing them. Only difference is it is unlikely that say; Konami is going to knock on your door and confiscate your physcial disc, but digital they have instant control and, yes, the right, to take them away.

It's not just video games either. You basically don't own any entertainment product.
 
A full refund? That would basically mean every delisted game earns zero total revenue despite costs. I hate delisting more than almost anyone but no one's going to agree with a solution that straight up erases all earnings for the whole game
 
This is why I hate the notion of an all digital future. Cutting out physical only helps companies and harms consumers. Not refunding those who purchased removed digital titles or not allowing them to continue to download it after the fact is 100% anti consumer. I've accepted all digital for PC, granted it was a choice made mostly for me as many games only get digital releases lately, but for console I always go physical unless there's a crazy sale i.e. Gravity Rush on Vita for a few bucks and Hot Shots Golf World Invitational (I think that's the title) for half off.
 
I think the fact that your game can be taken off you and never redownloaded again is something you agree to when you download the game digitally.
Not saying that makes it right or wrong particularly, and I'd be annoyed as well, but you pretty much said "yeah, you can do that if you want" when you paid for it.

The all digital future is going to be interesting.
 
no. Publishers gotta keep spending money for their games to stay online available for re-download. it's naive to expect them to keep doing it or give everyone full refunds. Unless, you are paying the said game publisher extra every once a while to keep each of their games up for eternity.

Xbox live and psn fees don't count as they do not go to anyone other than MS and Sony afaik.
 
T-0800 said:
Twice in the last couple of weeks I've attempted to download a game I've bought digitally and haven't been able to as they have been removed. The first was Double Dragon on 360 and the second was Mirrors Edge on IOS.

I understand for all sorts of reason that games can be removed from a store but they aren't in my experience removed from your download history. For example Outrun can no longer be bought on PSN but I can download it to my system as it is still on my download list. I don't have a problem with that as my ability to play the game hasn't been taken away from me.

Why would I want to buy any future or current digital games when they could be taken away from me?
Click to expand...

Check your download history, I'm pretty sure you'll find those titles there and avaialble for download.

Edit- I can confirm that Mirror's Edge is still available in my purchased history on iOS.
 
Astery said:
no. Publishers gotta keep spending money for their games to stay online available for re-download. it's naive to expect them to keep doing it or give everyone full refunds. Unless, you are paying the said game publisher extra every once a while to keep each of their games up for eternity.

Xbox live and psn fees don't count as they do not go to anyone other than MS and Sony afaik.
Click to expand...

The bigger question is why is this ok for the gaming format but not others? You never hear of Movies or Music becoming "unavailable" for owners.
 
If fully removed and not able to download again, yes I believe they should have to refund all purchases but if it's just removed from sale but able to be re-downloaded then I don't think then need to.
 
Yes, you paid for it and should have access to it. If they decide to delist it, they should notify their customers and let them grab it before it's gone as well.
 
DryvBy said:
It doesn't happen with paid content, which is what the topic is about.
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Sega Rally Online Arcade cannot be redownloaded on XBLA and is a paid title, so I'd like to know whether or not the same is true of the PSN version given Sony obliged Konami's request to have PT yanked wholesale. If Sony does indeed retain paid content despite publisher desires to the contrary, then that's a better policy but still short of ideal.

Edit: dallow_bg's post a little further below doesn't paint a pretty picture, but refunds are better than nothing.

Late edit edit: The Sega Rally portion of this post has been corrected five times by five different people in the space of ~23 hours, so rest assured I am now aware that the issue of the game data no longer being available was temporary.
 
Legislation is really lagging behind on this. Digital is only going to get more popular and it's high time for proper consumer protection to be drawn up for it. A consumer should have a reasonable expectation of availability (being able to download a new copy) from their date of purchase, I'd like to say at least ten years but preferably a much longer timespan. A full refund should be offered if the content is removed before that time. Yes, this will cost companies money, but that's how consumer protection generally works.

Sadly that will all be moot once all content is pushed onto subscription based services.
 
Yes they should but I'm sure somewhere in the TOS they've covered this. This is why I am against buying digital games on consoles, once it's gone there is no secondary option to get it back.
 
Games should either be available for download forever (Impossible) or give people DRM free versions before they're delisted. Otherwise it's basically theft and purchase is just a rental in purchases clothing/cost.
 
No, they have this covered in their T.O.S, you don't have a legal leg to stand on and they have all their bases covered.
Your paying for a license which can expire at any time, paid or not.You agreed to this when you purchased the product.
 
I've gotten refunds from Sony for some of the old PSX import games they had delisted (and you couldn't re-download) before.
 
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