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[JoeInky]

Fixed. A new director would be probably bound by something like regular project review by Sakurai anyway.

To be fair, if someone else did take over Smash and make Wario more like Classic Wario, I doubt Sakurai would pull a Sakamoto and do the equivalent of "Why is Samus wearing purple" for Wario.

I'm curious. How would you raise the skill ceiling for Smash?

I think the fact that Smash is easy to pick-up is one of its biggest qualities, particularly when compared to almost any other fighter out there, so raising the skill ceiling seems hard to do while keeping the "easy to pick-up" principle that gave birth to the series.

I basically mean just raise it to Melee levels, that game never had a problem with it's "easy to pick up"-ness. Give characters more options so it feels like you can do more with them rather than basically being railroaded into only having 1 or 2 good options at any one time.


I mainly just want a fun and interesting combo game to be facilitated by the mechanics again, not zero-to-deaths like 64 but enough for people to get creative with the way they use their movesets.

 

[Daouzin]

I would definitely appreciate seeing a mechanic like Wavedashing to return, and for L-Cancelling to return. Definitely shrink the blast zones so that the matches are shorter, and honestly, the ledge mechanic in Smash 4 is annoying. I would take something in between Melee and Smash 4's ideas, if not just go back to Melee's style.

I would actually like the 20XX version to include the Smash 4 edge system. I think it would make melee even more exciting. Though at the same time some characters might get a free and easy back air from forcing their opponent off.

Regardless it would be cool to see a proper implementation of that system in Melee.

 

[Toxi]

To be fair, if someone else did take over Smash and make Wario more like Classic Wario, I doubt Sakurai would pull a Sakamoto and do the equivalent of "Why is Samus wearing purple" for Wario.

WHY DID YOU HAVE TO REMIND ME

 

[A Link to the Past]

Wait, what's that Sakamoto thing about?

 

[ec0ec0]

From the other Smash 4 thread.

can melee work online? can F-Zero GX work online? Those are extremely precise, crazy fast paced games where players position changes continuously. Also, those game are only "playable" if online works like offline. Can offline games that were not designed with online in mind work online?

 

[chaosblade]

I would definitely appreciate seeing a mechanic like Wavedashing to return, and for L-Cancelling to return. Definitely shrink the blast zones so that the matches are shorter, and honestly, the ledge mechanic in Smash 4 is annoying. I would take something in between Melee and Smash 4's ideas, if not just go back to Melee's style.

An equivalent to wavedashing wouldn't even need "complex inputs" if it was intended from the outset. A shield+diagonal input could be used, or have the option to set it in the controls as a separate option for your shield input (shield+dodge for rolling/spotdodge, shield+dash for a wavedash equivalent).

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

From a game design perspective, I never thought that Masahiro Sakurai has proven himself at an elite level. I just don't think his mechanic design contributions to the Kirby, Meteos, or Smash Bros. series convince me that he is a genius game designer. I do think he has pushed some great conceptual ideas in presenting an all-star Nintendo masher and then employing some nifty ideas in Melee with the meta-content and adventure mode. But since Melee, I just don't think the direction has been moving in the right direction. In terms of this Wii U / 3DS edition, here are my qualms:

(-) The character roster is disappointing. Nintendo offers a plethora of iconic characters and the overall line up seems cheaply distributed and over saturated in certain franchises. I am extremely happy Little Mac finally made it in, but seeing some unique characters like Saki or Dillon, and more nostalgic characters like Murasame or Mike Jones, would really have been something special.

(-) The single player mode that was sparked with Melee's Adventure mode and Brawl's Subspace Emissary, could have finally turned into something special that incorporated RPG elements, Nintendo lore, and more importantly something fun and worthwhile away from the multiplayer. There is an economy version available on the 3DS (smash run) and nothing for the Wii U.

(-) Some of the great meta-game elements are starting to feel cheap. The trophies in Melee were brilliant, specific 3D models produced to reward the player. On the Wii U, I'm noticing mainly rips straight from the older games. Some are literally blown up 2D pixels that look absolutely grotesque. I just don't see the point. I rather have quality than quantity. On that same token, I think a more fleshed out encyclopedia of Nintendo, and actual character endings that explain who the character is in their specific universe; are huge missed opportunities to introduce less popular characters to new fans.

(-) Minor qualm, but the GamePad screen just does a lazy ghost of the main screen throughout the game. This is what Wii U launch games were doing! Sakurai could have at least done something like Mario Kart 8.

I am a fan of Smash Bros., but I would take a Nintendo vs. Capcom game from Director Go Usuma any day of the week. I just think it is a better example of a great technical all-star fighting game, with a great mix of lore and style. So essentially, I think that another director could definitely do somethings that would appease me more with the Smash series.

 

[JoeInky]

Wait, what's that Sakamoto thing about?

Ninja Theory (or whatever they're called) showed Sakamoto (main guy behind Metroid) a custscene for Other M in which Samus was wearing the gravity suit and he said something a long the lines of "Why is Samus wearing purple? It looks silly".

And so instead of an actual gravity suit we got a shitty purple glow that can conveniently disappear for cutscenes.

 

[Vena]

I basically mean just raise it to Melee levels, that game never had a problem with it's "easy to pick up"-ness. Give characters more options so it feels like you can do more with them rather than basically being railroaded into only having 1 or 2 good options at any one time.

Melee has a very real technical-skill gap problem, PM compounds that problem by making even more techs available. (L-Canceling is also a worthless mechanic that robs the game of risk/reward for the sake of more contextual button presses.)

Its easy to play casually, but its hard to actually break into the higher levels of play for the game without downright years of investment in the technical aspects of the game to be at an even remotely high level of play. You also have First Order Optimal Strategies within the game which are a total pisser and break the basic rule-set of the game, arguably being bad game design. The controls at high-level play are also unintuitive as fuck from the basic rule-set perspective.

Also it would be downright impossible to play technical-level Melee over online, so you'd either have to gimp the online or make it unrepresentative of the gameplay at another level... which is also a total pisser as far as game design goes.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Ninja Theory (or whatever they're called) showed Sakamoto (main guy behind Metroid) a custscene for Other M in which Samus was wearing the gravity suit and he said something a long the lines of "Why is Samus wearing purple? It looks silly".

And so instead of an actual gravity suit we got a shitty purple glow that can conveniently disappear for cutscenes.

...

So um

The director of Super Metroid doesn't understand the Gravity Suit???

 

[chaosblade]

Also it would be downright impossible to play Melee over online, so you'd either have to gimp the online or make it unrepresentative of the gameplay at another level... which is also a total pisser as far as game design goes.

People play Melee and Project M on Dolphin's netplay. It's not as precise as local play, but it works.

 

[direct_quote]

can melee work online? can F-Zero GX work online? Those are extremely precise, crazy fast paced games where players position changes continuously. Also, those game are only "playable" if online works like offline. Can offline games that were not designed with online in mind work online?

Um.. Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament?? There's plenty of faster games that have online...

 

[JoeInky]

...

So um

The director of Super Metroid doesn't understand the Gravity Suit???

Morisawa
For the most part, it was left to my responsibility, but there were points on which Sakamoto-san would definitely not budge. An example that made quite an impression on me was Samus's Power Suit, and the way it changes color as its various abilities are unlocked.

Iwata
Ah yes, it changes.

Morisawa
At first it's yellow, then the typical orange, then finally it becomes the Gravity Suit, so that Samus is purple. That is Nintendo's official specification, so naturally we started making the final Power Suit in purple. Towards the end of the game, however, there are some serious dramatic scenes. As Sakamoto-san was watching one of these cinematics, where Samus appeared in purple, he said 'why is Samus wearing purple?'

Iwata
He said that, even though it had been the specification from the very beginning! (laughs)

Morisawa
Yes! (laughs) So I told him 'she's wearing the Gravity Suit, that's why she's purple'. His response, however, was 'but it looks strange to have this purple person popping up during such a serious conversation'. It would then become an exchange along the lines of me saying 'But this is the specification!' and him responding 'No, no, definitely strange'.

Source

 

[Vena]

People play Melee and Project M on Dolphin's netplay. It's not as precise as local play, but it works.

You can also play them on a modern TV, doesn't mean you should or that its an enjoyable experience. There's a reason our Smash club has a CRT for Melee.

 

[A Link to the Past]

...Bleh. Pray that Sakamoto never works on a Metroid game ever again.

 

[Vena]

...Bleh. Pray that Sakamoto never works on a Metroid game ever again.

He won't, he'll work on more Tomodachi Collection titles.

It's Retro's game/IP now, along with DK. They have statistically and critically out-done him with the title and his attempt to make it more appealing to a wider, action audience failed miserably.

 

[direct_quote]

Source

What exactly did Sakamoto even do when directing Super Metroid? Jesus....

 

[ec0ec0]

Um.. Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament?? There's plenty of faster games that have online...

But if the game wasn't designed with online play in mind, things like how the game handles inputs and things like that can be a problem, no?

edi: i'm just asking

 

[Shimesaba]

L-Canceling is also a worthless mechanic that robs the game of risk/reward for the sake of more contextual button presses.

Do you also get mad about timed hits in the Mario RPGs?

You also have First Order Optimal Strategies within the game which are a total pisser and break the basic rule-set of the game

I'd like an example that's worse than the jab/laser/etc locks in Brawl or all of the pivot nonsense in Smash 4.

Also it would be downright impossible to play technical-level Melee over online, so you'd either have to gimp the online or make it unrepresentative of the gameplay at another level... which is also a total pisser as far as game design goes.

Melee Netplay is already a thing that exists.

 

[JediLink]

What might possibly be better than getting rid of Sakurai completely is to just have a team of people (anyone with a modicum of common sense will do) to filter out his shitty ideas. So we'd still have Mega Man, but no Yellow Devil for example. If I had to choose between all or nothing though, no fucking contest. Sakurai does way more damage to the series than good.

 

[Vena]

Do you also get mad about timed hits in the Mario RPGs?

Melee Netplay is already a thing that exists.

The fact that a thing exists in other games does not mean it is a good idea. Please. L-Cancels are a dumb mechanic, they add nothing but demanding a button press for a thing that is never-not-the-action-to-take.

Melee's netplay on dolphin is a series of self-predictions because there is inherent and noticeable input delay. One can adjust for it but its bad practice for non-delayed gameplay. The same is true of Sm4sh but there is less dependence on critical sequences or otherwise you get chaingrabbed into oblivion with Bowser.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

This is a good way to receive a lot of hate. "But then it would just be for competitive players!!!!"

even though the PMDT blessed us all with the greatness that is Stamina Type 3 XD

 

[blackadde]

i don't know why people think that competitive play and casual play cannot realistically be design goals for the same product, when there's already a game basically everyone agrees succeeds at both (melee). yes, this was largely a fluke - but it exists! just build on the template instead of throwing it out wholesale.

 

[cmChimera]

Green Greens (The wind barely moves you), Great Bay (The turtle comes and goes), Yoshi's Story (The clouds come and go), Princess Peach's Castle (The switches barely affect anything), Kongo Jungle (log and klaptrap barely affect anything, and the barrel is skill based), Fountain of Dreams (The two side platforms move up and down), Venom (arwing platforms come and go), Onett (The cars aren't too frequent and hardly ever kill), Pokemon Stadium (Stage layout changes, but it's nothing terrible).

Melee has a better good to crap ratio.

Uh Princess Peach's castle has GIANT EXPLODING BULLET BILLS. Coneria has Arwings that shoot at you, Onett has cars that hit you, and the klaptrap on Jungle Japes and Kongo Jungle is like a one hit KO. You're reaching hard. Melee has some serious stage hazards just like every other game in the series. It just has less stages overall.

You listed like seven stages out of dozens.

75m has tons of stage hazards at any given time, Distant Planet has rushing water and 1HKO Bulborbs, Flat Zone 2 is a mess of hazards, Frigate Orpheon turns upside down, Green Hill Zone has the checkpoints and destructible floor (why??), Hanenbow is just off, Mario Bros. forces you to KO using the environment most of the time, New Pork City has 1HKO shenanigans, PictoChat has impenetrable platforms, Mario Circuit has the Shy Guys, Norfair has giant walls of lava, Pirate Ship has a catapult and tornadoes and cannonballs, Port Town Aero Dive has high-damage vehicles, Rumble Falls is just awful, WarioWare can have two winners, but make one winner invincible and the other giant, Spear Pillar does a lot of annoying shit, and Summit has ice + 1HKO fish.

17 shit stages in Brawl. And unlike the "shit" stages in Melee, stuff like Rainbow Cruise and Poke Floats are relatively playable. They're not the best stages, but I mean, Rainbow Cruise used to be legal - 75m never was.

I listed 7 stages because the comparison was to Melee, and Melee doesn't have THAT many stages. Brawl and Smash 4 have far more, and so naturally the amount of stage hazards would increase. Rainbow Cruise was legal, but so was Pictochat, and so was Frigate Orpheon. There have always been stage hazards, and Smash 4 is the only game in the series that allows you to turn any stage into FD.

 

[GenG3000]

Yes, why not? Smash 4 is the most balanced game in the series in terms of gameplay and characters. Everyone is usable now, mechanics favor heavies and the skill ceiling makes them a valid option against rapid hitting characters. Melee was the GOAT for me but its gameplay core is broken and flawed.

He should, however, take the back seat and delegate some tasks for the next Smash. Things like character balance can be done by other people.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

The fact that a thing exists in other games does not mean it is a good idea. Please. L-Cancels are a dumb mechanic, they add nothing but demanding a button press for a thing that is never-not-the-action-to-take.

dat execution hate :3

 

[Vena]

I'd like an example that's worse than the jab/laser/etc locks in Brawl or all of the pivot nonsense in Smash 4.

I'm not going to defend Brawl, because Brawl is a pisser of a game.

Also, I'm not sure where you're going with pivots as they have been in every game...? You've always been able to pivot sans 64 (IIRC) but its just rendered pointless by wavedashing in Melee, and I don't give a shit about Brawl and its borked everyone-is-kirby engine. You can have complicated inputs, the question is if those complicated inputs break the groundlaid rule-set. Wavedashing does, that's why its so effective because its literally better than any and all other movement options short of SHFFLCA, and I don't count DD as movement but as a mix-up option and mindgames.

Pivot grabs, pivot boost grabs are not necessarily better than a direct grab and require a read to be effectively used. They have different situational values.

dat execution hate :3

Its because its a bad/poorly designed execution test. You don't get punished for it more than had you not used it at all. If L-Canceling added lag on fail/block/miss that was orders higher than lag without input, that'd be a different story. Risk vs. reward should always be put into consideration when adding mechanics, especially mechanics of complexity over depth, and L-Canceling as it is currently designed fails at this in the simplest way.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Melee stages: 29, 7 listed

Brawl stages: 41, 17 listed

Yet, with Brawl's 41 stages, we need to also count the Melee past stages that it features which you listed. It brings back Big Blue, Jungle Japes, and Rainbow Cruise, so nearly 50% of Brawl's stages have obnoxious stage designs. And if we cut out the 10 Melee stages, then we end up with a growth of only so few non-Past Stages (26 to 31), and we end up with a majority of Brawl's stages sucking.

 

[kewlmyc]

Yes, if only because he's physically hurting himself making these games now. Why he makes games that hurt himself and hurts the average person playing it (Uprising), I'll never know. They're all good though.

Make a game similar to Melee 2.0 so the diehard Melee fans can shut the fuck up about it already.

 

[Dryk]

even though the PMDT blessed us all with the greatness that is Stamina Type 3 XD

People complain about how bland the stages are in Project M, but I don't think they get it. PM is designed primarily for tournaments, and because they're so limited in what they can affect the stages are stuck being bland.

If the team had more control I think you'd see more customisable stages that run the gamut from platforms to crazy.

 

[cmChimera]

Melee stages: 29, 7 listed

Brawl stages: 41, 17 listed

Yet, with Brawl's 41 stages, we need to also count the Melee past stages that it features which you listed. It brings back Big Blue, Jungle Japes, and Rainbow Cruise, so nearly 50% of Brawl's stages have obnoxious stage designs. And if we cut out the 10 Melee stages, then we end up with a growth of only so few non-Past Stages (26 to 31), and we end up with a majority of Brawl's stages sucking.

If all stage hazards are obnoxious to you, then I can't help you. As we've already established, competitive smash is not the design's focus. The point was that Melee had plenty of stage hazards itself.

 

[A Link to the Past]

If all stage hazards are obnoxious to you, then I can't help you. As we've already established, competitive smash is not the design's focus. The point was that Melee had plenty of stage hazards itself.

I never said that. If I felt that stage hazards were obnoxious, I would have listed Halberd. I listed stages that were shitty. I wasn't even speaking from a POV of competitive play - WarioWare is never not a shit stage. The most casual play has it as a shitty stage.

 

[Shimesaba]

Its because its a bad/poorly designed execution test. You don't get punished for it more than had you not used it at all.

This is definitely not true. High-level Melee is fast enough that missed L-cancels can get punished. I can find you some video examples if you don't believe me.

An example would be Fox's dair (down-air, the drill) to shine (down-b reflector) on shield. Without the L-cancel, you get shield-grabbed.

 

[Mariolee]

I loved Smash 4, so yes.

 

[Daingurse]

No, for his own sake really. Some of his design decisions definitely irritate me, but he seems to work himself to death on these titles. Let someone else do it, preferably someone with a fighting game background.

 

[Vena]

This is definitely not true. High-level Melee is fast enough that missed L-cancels can get punished. I can find you some video examples if you don't believe me.

An example would be Fox's dair (down-air, the drill) to shine (down-b reflector) on shield. Without the L-cancel, you get shield-grabbed.

Read what I wrote again: You do not get punished for it (by the game itself) anymore than had you not used it at all.

Also let's not get started on how much L-Canceling contributes to the utter broken nature of the spacies... and how that's also pisser for game design.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

This is definitely not true. High-level Melee is fast enough that missed L-cancels can get punished. I can find you some video examples if you don't believe me.

An example would be Fox's dair (down-air, the drill) to shine (down-b reflector) on shield. Without the L-cancel, you get shield-grabbed.

Even if that wasn't the case there still wouldn't be a problem. It's that Sirlin school of thought trying to devalue execution under the guise of the sake of strategic value or accessibility.

 

[taoofjord]

My god I can't believe the hate I'm seeing in here. This game has more content than the vast majority of games out there and yet here we have dozens of people seriously upset that one thing or another is missing? Take a step back and look at the whole product and appreciate it for what it is... don't blow things out of proportion.

There's nothing wrong with wanting more content or being annoyed that something was overlooked (such as a retry option for events) but to be so focused on the negatives for a game that has so much going for it is doing no one any good. Don't make this snowball into something it doesn't have to.

Edit: Whoops, I mistook this thread for the one that inspired this thread.

 

[A Link to the Past]

My god I can't believe the hate I'm seeing in here. This game has more content than the vast majority of games out there and yet here we have dozens of people seriously upset that one thing or another is missing? Take a step back and look at the whole product and appreciate it for what it is... don't blow things out of proportion.

There's nothing wrong with wanting more content or being annoyed that something was overlooked (such as a retry option for events) but to be so focused on the negatives for a game that has so much going for it is doing no one any good. Don't make this snowball into something it doesn't have to.

All the content in the world does not make up for an unfun game.

 

[Shimesaba]

Read what I wrote again: You do not get punished for it (by the game itself) anymore than had you not used it at all.

Also let's not get started on how much L-Canceling contributes to the utter broken nature of the spacies... and how that's also pisser for game design.

I don't understand what you mean, then. In 64, L-cancelling reduces landing lag 100%. In Melee it halves it. How is sitting around in the lag from an L-cancel not a punishment?

If Melee Spacies were actually broken enough to be a "game design" problem, Mango wouldn't be the only Fox player winning Majors. Throw him out and the only space animal player who won a Major in 2013-2014 was PP, and he could honestly do that with Marth at this point.

 

[Geg]

My god I can't believe the hate I'm seeing in here. This game has more content than the vast majority of games out there and yet here we have dozens of people seriously upset that one thing or another is missing? Take a step back and look at the whole product and appreciate it for what it is... don't blow things out of proportion.

There's nothing wrong with wanting more content or being annoyed that something was overlooked (such as a retry option for events) but to be so focused on the negatives for a game that has so much going for it is doing no one any good. Don't make this snowball into something it doesn't have to.

Competitive melee fans are pretty insufferable, if you hadn't already noticed

 

[MaverickHunterAsh]

Hire the Project M team. Done.
Sakurai is good but the man is so hands on that I just don't think he could handle the work of another one. His repetitive stress syndrome is pretty severe and its harsh to work on such a hands on project as a hands on guy when you can't use your hands for very long at all.

Hire the Project M team. Do the first special edition or something to break them into Nintendo's structure. Then put them towards future installments.

This is the absolute worst thing that could happen to the Smash series. They would just make Melee 2.0, and that's the last thing that should happen. The series has evolved, moved on, and gotten too much better since then.

There's also the small, tiny matter of the Project M team not actually being game developers. (I don't think even they would call themselves game developers, but then again they do come across as incredibly egotistical, so maybe they would.) Either way, they're really talented ROM hackers (I realize PM isn't technically just a ROM hack) and that's it. They've done nothing that suggests they have any idea what it takes to create a whole game from the ground up.

I've never subscribed to this school of thought honestly.


I mean, he's good, but the only person who can portray characters accurately and lovingly? Nah, that's not some Sakurai specific quality.

What he did with Megaman is more amazing just because of the fact that Capcom has treated the character so awfully that "Megaman being portrayed as he should be" is actually a breath of fresh air. I think anyone with any modicum of respect for the character would have done the same, it's just that this has been the only opportunity where someone who isn't one of the spiteful fucks at Capcom has got their hands on him.


Sakurai's defining quality is fitting a lot of content into a game, but I think he often sacrifices quality for it.

I didn't mean to suggest that lovingly and accurately portraying characters in Smash is his own quality; it's one of a great, great many. I don't agree that any quality has been sacrificed for content; for my money and in my opinion, Smash Wii U is far and away the best Smash game to date in every way - I even think it's a hell of a lot more interesting and fun to watch at the highest For Glory skill levels than Melee is, even though I prefer not to play that way myself. I know we don't agree on that in the least, though.

 

[Vena]

I don't understand what you mean, then. In 64, L-cancelling reduces landing lag 100%. In Melee it halves it. How is sitting around in the lag from an L-cancel not a punishment?

If Melee Spacies were actually broken enough to be a "game design" problem, Mango wouldn't be the only Fox player winning Majors. Throw him out and the only space animal player who won a Major in 2013-2014 was PP, and he could honestly do that with Marth at this point.

Is the punishment for failing L-Canceling larger than the punishment for not L-Canceling?

No, it isn't.

That is what I am talking about.

 

[cmChimera]

I never said that. If I felt that stage hazards were obnoxious, I would have listed Halberd. I listed stages that were shitty. I wasn't even speaking from a POV of competitive play - WarioWare is never not a shit stage. The most casual play has it as a shitty stage.

Your opinion on what constitutes a "not a shit stage" is subjective. I happen to like WarioWare stage. Competitively? Definitely not. But it's a fun stage for just playing the game. Additionally, your opinion on what constitutes a "bad" stage doesn't really have anything to do with what I was talking about.

 

[Dryk]

All the content in the world does not make up for an unfun game.

I think the game is fun even if it's really unevenly polished. What I don't get is this mindset that content for content's sake automatically makes a game better. If content is actively detracting from people's enjoyment because not enough thought/polish went into it then it doesn't matter how much of it there is.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Your opinion on what constitutes a "not a shit stage" is subjective. I happen to like WarioWare stage. Competitively? Definitely not. But it's a fun stage for just playing the game. Additionally, your opinion on what constitutes a "bad" stage doesn't really have anything to do with what I was talking about.

My point is that Brawl has a lot of terrible stages, and has a far less reasonable % of these things. Further, a notable number of tournament legal stages are past stages. For as many stages as it added, it did not increase the number of tournament legal stages to nearly as much an equivalent.

I think the game is fun even if it's really unevenly polished. What I don't get is this mindset that content for content's sake automatically makes a game better. If content is actively detracting from people's enjoyment because not enough thought/polish went into it then it doesn't matter how much of it there is.

It was more a devil's advocate thing, basically that if a game is not fun for someone, content doesn't do anything for that person.

 

[shaowebb]

This is a good way to receive a lot of hate. "But then it would just be for competitive players!!!!"

I'm not sure I entirely agree with the suggestion. I think they've shown a lot of creativity in fixing characters and improving balance, and more recently, incorporating fun new game modes that aren't massive additions to the game. But they haven't really demonstrated making something that's really "new" gameplay-wise. Project M is a little too inspired by Melee, I think, if they could make something that is it's own thing but just as good, I'd be for that team heading the overall vision for the game.

They would need a much bigger team though. Not that Nintendo would ever hire them anyway.

I don't really mind if people hate me or not for saying the Project M team would be the best for it and that Sakurai should stop. Sakurai is killing himself and needs to hand it over before he collapses...I don't know that his RSS could handle another such title. He had serious medical problems completing Smash 4 and he needs to groom some folks to take over in his stead for the next one.

I truly feel that the Project M team understands the game better than anyone right now and would know how to treat it. Heck they even did the extra outfits better...just look at their Light Suit Samus and Virtual Boy R.O.B. stuff and compare. However, the part about doing a "special edition" to break them into Nintendo structure also refers to getting them into the mindset that nintendo has that beyond the moveset balance they need to also focus on a lot of casual content so that everyone can enjoy it and come up with creative ways to keep the two demographics from shutting one another out of the market similar to how the For Fun/For Glory stuff came about.

They'd need groomed to the rest of their market but they have the hardest part down already which is how to make a good and enjoyable roster without enormous gaps in the roster in terms of options and viability. It'd need a bigger team than they have though so that would help a lot with the whole completion of other modes, assists, and similar such casual draws.

They won't do it, but regardless of those who hate might not like me for saying it I think they have the best track record so far in regards of how to balance and implement new move ideas for such a game environment.

 

[entremet]

Reading many game of the year selections and listening to podcasts, Smash 4 seems to have won many over. Especially those who didn't care about the series before.

It's also better reviewed than any of them before.

Sakurai is doing something right.

 

[Shimesaba]

Is the punishment for failing L-Canceling larger than the punishment for not L-Canceling?

No, it isn't.

That is what I am talking about.

I guess I see what you mean, but when has that ever been implemented? Smash 4 carries over Teching and Meteor Cancelling, which are also timed button presses. It's rarely if ever advantageous not to tech or meteor cancel, and you aren't really punished harder for failing them than for not attempting...? (It's a bit different because one tech attempt can mess up the next, but that interplay is more present in Melee anyway...)

[Smash 4 is] also better reviewed than any of them before.

This doesn't seem to be true? Smash Wii U has the same Metascore as Melee (92), 1 point below Brawl, and Melee has a better fan review score? (9.1 v.s. 9.0, but still)

 

[Xion_Stellar]

NO! and I'm actually glad he may actually step away from the series this time (it's not the first time he said he is done with the series).

He doesn't want to build a game around the competitive scene? Fine but at least add the options in for those of us who enjoy such option.The inclusion of the "Smooth Landing Boots" (L Cancelling) is a clear indication that they can turn this off/on as they feel like it (to some extent) and also the serious lack of post launch support (balance patches) in a fighter in 2014 really bothers me and some of you may say but it's a party game not a fighter and to that I will say I'm glad you share the same sentiment as Sakurai because it's that exact mindset that has been sending the series backwards since Meele.

So here I'm hoping the next person in charge will take the series more seriously instead of complaining about how tire he's tire of working the series and plugging his ears and saying "Nope it's a party game I'm leaving it the way I released the game" every time somebody mentions the hardcore/competitive fan base of the series to him.