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Should the PS4/xbox3 controllers have more buttons?

I'm currently balls deep in the 360 version of Skyrim, and I would give anything to have dedicated buttons for quick save and quick load. In theory this could be mapped to the left and right d-pad buttons, but goddamn the 360 d-pad is shitty. I fully support a few more face buttons on the next console controllers. Maybe even just 2 "select" and "start" buttons right next to each other.
 
I think both the 360 and PS3 controllers are pretty good but have room for improvement. Is that wrong? Am I supposed to choose one to stand by as perfect while deriding the other as utterly broken?
 
Maybe move face buttons to a position where I don't have to move my thumb from the right stick (or add more buttons to solve that problem).
 
Cartman86 said:
Maybe move face buttons to a position where I don't have to move my thumb from the right stick (or add more buttons to solve that problem).
Click to expand...
And make the controller less comfortable and less useful for non-shooters? No thank you, I'd rather have something versatile. That kind of specialization should be relegated to a controller made for that specific purpose.
 
Baller said:
I'm currently balls deep in the 360 version of Skyrim, and I would give anything to have dedicated buttons for quick save and quick load. In theory this could be mapped to the left and right d-pad buttons, but goddamn the 360 d-pad is shitty. I fully support a few more face buttons on the next console controllers. Maybe even just 2 "select" and "start" buttons right next to each other.
Click to expand...

The problematic 360 d-pad won't affect how those buttons perform in simple left, right, up, down actions. The awfulness shows up when you actually use it as a primary method of control.
 
Friedreich said:
The problematic 360 d-pad won't affect how those buttons perform in simple left, right, up, down actions. The awfulness shows up when you actually use it as a primary method of control.
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Yeah, but I think I'd accidentally activate the favorites menu with the "up" motion when I meant to hit left, or maybe I'd hit right and quick load when I meant to activate the favorites menu (that would be the worst thing). The 360 pad just isn't trustworthy enough for something so important. PS3 could probably work though.
 
Pai Pai Master said:
Rear touch pad on the back of the next Playstation controller.
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this. with rear touchpad, you can map camera control to the rear touch pad, and that leave your thumb to always be ready on the face button, or game can start using unique action using right analog stick (like Ape Escape, Monster Hunter PS2 for net swing and sword swing) rather than just using them as camera control.

or, in first person shooter, you can use rear touch pad as a quick look around, one thing I always find jarring with fps is that your head is always in line with your gun, if you want to see what's happened in your left, you have to turn your whole gun and body to the left. rear touchpad can be used for additional camera control separate from your gun, it will recenter when you stop touching the rear touchpad, and you always have you gun aim with right analog stick.

and you can also use touch pad as hotkey like in pc but mapped to gesture.

I'll be disappointed if next gen dualshock doesn't offer rear touch pad.
 
I don't think controllers need more buttons but both the 360 pad and the dual shock could do with a touchscreen. I think it would have nice applications for a bunch of games.
 
Callibretto said:
I'll be disappointed if next gen dualshock doesn't offer rear touch pad.
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Fuck that, I need a controller that can have an Xtendplay created for it. This is the only way I can play games without severe knuckle pain.

NnreJ.png
 
ShdwDrake said:
No no no. I play pc games with a 360 controller and the asymmetrical analogs just bother me. Also the d pad is terribad and the triggers feel weird when playing non shooters.
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Um... why don't you just the Dualshock on PC? I do. Just remember, X IS SQUARE! That is the only one that still manages to trip me up from time to time. Also, you may need to adjust the shoulder buttons from time to time for L1/R1 aim/shoot.

Baller said:
Fuck that, I need a controller that can have an Xtendplay created for it. This is the only way I can play games without severe knuckle pain.

http://i.imgur.com/NnreJ.png[img][/QUOTE]

What... in... the... hell?

___

KB/M is my least favorite thing though. Can't stand mouse aiming. Feels crappy to me. No sense of accomplishment whatsoever. Digital movement blows as well.
Click to expand...
 
Baller said:
Yeah, but I think I'd accidentally activate the favorites menu with the "up" motion when I meant to hit left, or maybe I'd hit right and quick load when I meant to activate the favorites menu (that would be the worst thing). The 360 pad just isn't trustworthy enough for something so important. PS3 could probably work though.
Click to expand...

For quickload/save, yeah you're probably right. Then again, implementing those on buttons so close to each other is a terrible idea in general, I'd say. I'm still for KBAM support being standardized for all games if we're going to implement pc actions to console controls.
 
I don't think Nintendo has the execution right, but the idea is there.

Touch screen could be great for context buttons/overlays. Find a way to put a nice touch screen in the center of the Xbox controller and you're good to go.
 
Irish said:
KB/M is my least favorite thing though. Can't stand mouse aiming. Feels crappy to me. No sense of accomplishment whatsoever. Digital movement blows as well.
Click to expand...

No sense of accomplishment because it actually works and doesn't hinder you?
 
This is the most terrible option that could come about. Well, having every game being built to support the archaic ass KB/M setup is worse, but I won't go there.
 
Friedreich said:
For quickload/save, yeah you're probably right. Then again, implementing those on buttons so close to each other is a terrible idea in general, I'd say. I'm still for KBAM support being standardized for all games if we're going to implement pc actions to console controls.
Click to expand...

this is kinda weird, but for Kindgom of Amalur demo, I like joystick implementation a lot better than kb+m, and after thinking about it a bit more, I imagine if inFamous is ported to PC, that game will also be more comfortable to play with joystick, despite the advantage of mouse aiming.

the reason is because in Amalur kb+m, I have to switch weapon and magic before using them, while in joystick, all attack and magic are mapped to their own button or combination of button, no need to switching 'equipped weapon/magic' at all. weapon 1 and 2 are mapped to [] and /\, while magic use combination of R1 + face button for 4 slot of magic ready at all times. in PC, I have to constantly use mouse wheel to switch between 2 weapon, and press hotkey to switched magic.
 
abstract alien said:
This is the most terrible option that could come about. Well, having every game being built to support the archaic ass KB/M setup is worse, but I won't go there.
Click to expand...

Having options is bad? People (not me) clearly want more buttons and KBAM is the way to go for maximum control.

And archaic? Man, that's the first I've heard it called that. How so?
 
Orayn said:
No sense of accomplishment because it actually works and doesn't hinder you?
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I say that because it makes me sound tough... In all honesty, I can't aim for shit with a mouse. :/ Analogue sticks are the only aiming method that really makes sense to me for some reason.

Of course, I'm pretty backwards when it comes to a lot of things. Can't walk correctly on flat ground, only rough terrain.
 
abstract alien said:
This is the most terrible option that could come about. Well, having every game being built to support the archaic ass KB/M setup is worse, but I won't go there.
Click to expand...

There is nothing archaic about a mouse. It's simply a better pointing device than an analog stick. Your ill will is directed at the keyboard, which is a fair argument for some genres.

Irish said:
I say that because it makes me sound tough... In all honesty, I can't aim for shit with a mouse. :/ Analogue sticks are the only aiming method that really makes sense to me for some reason.

Of course, I'm pretty backwards when it comes to a lot of things. Can't walk correctly on flat ground, only rough terrain.
Click to expand...

There is a pretty big difference: Mice are proportional, sticks are rate-based. Because the mouse doesn't need any sort of centering mechanism, moving it a certain distance always moves your aim onscreen by a specific amount. With a joystick, you can only move within a set area, so the displacement corresponds to the speed at which your cursor/camera moves.
 
EternalGamer said:
I don't think Nintendo has the execution right, but the idea is there.

Touch screen could be great for context buttons/overlays. Find a way to put a nice touch screen in the center of the Xbox controller and you're good to go.
Click to expand...

it need to be in the back imo, most of the front interface in a joystick is handled with your two thumbs, and they already have other means to demand their attention, dpad, face button, and two analog stick. adding touch screen in the front is more meant to offer something new to the experience (which we already enjoy in DS and smartphone gaming) rather than enhance/expand the current experience. for example, in a lot of DS games that do great things with it's touchscreen, it often dismiss the face button or just give them simple options, because switching between stylus and face button is annoying.

maybe it's better with multitouch capacitive screen without using stylus, but many people here don't like some of Vita touchscreen implementation in games when we first video and trailer, hell, in the trailer, they even let gp their whole right hand away from holding Vita to use touch screen and in just that video, many people think it's stupid (ofcourse in practice, I doubt I will take my whole hand off my vita, I just hope my thumbs is long enough to reach the center of the screen)
 
Teetris said:
This looks hilarious :lol
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If you have big hands the Xtendplay is simply the greatest thing. I have one of each for PS360. It makes the controller a lot fatter so you don't have the knuckle pain from gripping the tiny ass stock shell.

v2E3t.jpg


It's not perfect though. I'm not a big fan of the "length" of the thing, though I understand why they make it that way. Its crappy for me though since current couch set up doesn't have elbow rests.

vB4WE.jpg
 
Orayn said:
There is nothing archaic about a mouse. It's simply a better pointing device than an analog stick. Your ill will is directed at the keyboard, which is a fair argument for some genres.
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It's not about having options, its about implementation and design. The notion that EVERY game needs KB/M support is clearly being spoken from a desire to play the games that it actually enhances...which isn't many. Sure, twitch shooters will be better, as would traditional MMO types, but what about action games, adventures, racers, fighters, etc? If you make KB/M an option in EVERY game, some games literally would suffer, design wise. You can't just throw that out there and expect it to work as an option, because if it's going to be a viable option, a ton of games will have to be seriously reworked.

Slapping a game on KB/M would be the same as throwing motion controls into a game that was clearly not designed for it. It's not the input method, its the implementation.
 
abstract alien said:
It's not about having options, its about implementation and design. The notion that EVERY game needs KB/M support is clearly being spoken from a desire to play the games that it actually enhances...which isn't many. Sure, twitch shooters will be better, as would traditional MMO types, but what about action games, adventures, racers, fighters, etc? If you make KB/M an option in EVERY game, some games literally would suffer, design wise. You can't just throw that out there and expect it to work as an option, because if it's going to be a viable option, a ton of games will have to be seriously reworked.

Slapping a game on KB/M would be the same as throwing motion controls into a game that was clearly not designed for it. It's not the input method, its the implementation.
Click to expand...

To be honest, I don't imagine a ton of time or effort goes into KB/M control schemes for most games. Games that aren't suited to that particular setup really don't bend over backwards to make it work, but do achieve some basic level of functionality because it's the standard input device for the system. Most people who play games on PC know that KB/M isn't ideal for every game, and get the controller they need to compenstate. DMC fans still use controllers, flight sim fans get flight sticks, etc.
 
Orayn said:
To be honest, I don't imagine a ton of time or effort goes into KB/M control schemes for most games. Games that aren't suited to that particular setup really don't bend over backwards to make it work, but do achieve some basic level of functionality because it's the standard input device for the system. Most people who play games on PC know that KB/M isn't ideal for every game, and get the controller they need to compenstate. DMC fans still use controllers, flight sim fans get flight sticks, etc.
Click to expand...

That is the issue though. Games like DMC, Mario Galaxy, and Forza would have to be just as viable on a KB/M as they would on a pad. There is no way on Earth the current KB/M set up can be used to seriously play Mario Galaxy. Not even close. The game would have to be redesigned to actually ensure the KB/M is an actual control method for those who choose it and not just a bullet point on the box.

Take the DS for example. Games like the initial Phoenix Wright series are VERY playable with both buttons, as well as a touch screen. Perfect harmony, and nothing is really lost no matter what option you choose. A game like Kirby: Canvas Curse however, is designed specifically with a touch screen and stylus in mind, and playing with a crosspad/analog would butcher the player if it were an option and someone chose it. Turn that around and say NSMB, and you have the opposite...a game that is nearly impossible to play on a touch screen with an sort of real efficiency. You can do it, as we have seen on smart phones, but it certainly isn't the smartest choice.

For KB/M support to be a real option for EVERY game, it has to be a viable one. You have to be able to play your way, let me play my way, and we both can accomplish the same thing. The way current games are...this just isn't possible. I mean, could you really see a game like WoW being played exactly how it is on PC...but with a controller?
 
I think the notion of making console controllers more complicated is completely counterintuitive to the lessons we've learned from touch, motion and voice control. We're still so inexperienced, really, with using these effectively, but the days of dozen-button controllers are, I think, coming to an end.
 
Baller said:
Fuck that, I need a controller that can have an Xtendplay created for it. This is the only way I can play games without severe knuckle pain.

NnreJ.png
Click to expand...

The 360 controller feels awesome to hold, this thing seems like it'll fuck that up lol...


360 controller needs 1 big button near the 4 face buttons like the NGC and a way better d pad, after that adjust the placement of the R1/L1 triggers a little bit and make them wider, it's perfection like that.
 
LestradeTGQ said:
I think the notion of making console controllers more complicated is completely counterintuitive to the lessons we've learned from touch, motion and voice control. We're still so inexperienced, really, with using these effectively, but the days of dozen-button controllers are, I think, coming to an end.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I think the next generation should basically use a pair of PSMove Nav controllers with even better gyros/accelerometers and the addition of a Wiimote style IR pointer. You'd gain a lot of functionality without giving up any of the good aspects of Dual Shock or the 360 controller.
 
I want shoulder buttons to turn into clickable resistant scroll wheels and two more face buttons. Maybe a screenshot button in the center too.
 
Absolutely!

Add two more face buttons Magenta and Cyan. Have them kidney bean shaped (Gamecube).

So it would go...

(X=Blue, Yellow=Y and Z=Magenta)

(A=Green, B=Red, and C=Cyan)



Then of course a clone of the Saturn d-pad and improved rumble (better haptic feedback and more power efficent).
 
If they added clicky joysticks, and maybe analogue triggers to the Classic Controller Pro, it'd be pretty much perfect to me.

So no, I don't really thing there need to be more buttons. Maybe some minor tweaking to the layout/button names though. (It took me ages to figure out what the "RB" button was on the 360 when I first got it. Which is embarrassing, but still.)

Edit: Actually, there's one button I always wish they would add: a disable/enable HUD button, so that you could take everything off the screen with one button, and have it fade back in when you press it again.
 
If I had my Way, the next Xbox would use the exact same controller the 360 has. Unless Microsoft really thinks it can bring meaningful innovation to the controller space, standardization can simply be great.
 
I wouldn't mind having 6 face buttons instead of 4, and perhaps two fairly large trigger like buttons on the underside of the controller.
 
SlipperySlope said:
Sony needs to swap the left analog with the left DPad much more than they need to add more buttons.
Click to expand...

I might buy a Sony console again if they did this. The PS3 only 1-2 third party pads (one by Nyko and one by Power A) with asymmetrical layouts and I was too afraid to risk buying them.
 
More buttons is an insane idea on the face of it. Might as well use a keyboard and mouse, but I've got a PC for that. If 2 analog sticks, 1 d-pad, 1 select button, 1 start button, 4 face buttons, 4 shoulder buttons and possibly a touchscreen aren't enough for developers or more than enough for you players, then the industry is in severe trouble. If anything less buttons is already enough for 90% of console game genres provided the designers don't suck.

But it would be hilarious if hardware manufacturers tried that.
 
fps-pro-back1-600x418.jpg


Not really a bad idea at all, if they were lowered to the bottom of the flat part near the mic port right above the screws where your fingers actually sit and on the m$ controller.
 
I don't think there's any problem with the number of buttons there are currently, developers just need to use them better. Just look at the way inFamous does slick third person action with all kinds of jumping and climbing and rolling and meleeing interspersed with shooting dudes. You have the equivalents of lightning pistols, shotguns, sniper rifles, grenades, rocket launchers and area-of-effect attacks all mapped to the default layout with no need to switch weapons.

Then look at something like Gears of War, which maps almost everything to the A button and wastes everything else. It's the reason you have to crouch down and hide behind a wall before you can jump over it. And then other face buttons are used for things like "watch an explosion in the distance!".
 
I don't like having to press the two shoulder buttons on either side at the same time because I like having my middle fingers supporting the back of the pad. So I would like buttons on the back of the pad in that position.
 
matrix-cat said:
I don't think there's any problem with the number of buttons there are currently, developers just need to use them better. Just look at the way inFamous does slick third person action with all kinds of jumping and climbing and rolling and meleeing interspersed with shooting dudes. You have the equivalents of lightning pistols, shotguns, sniper rifles, grenades, rocket launchers and area-of-effect attacks all mapped to the default layout with no need to switch weapons.

Then look at something like Gears of War, which maps almost everything to the A button and wastes everything else. It's the reason you have to crouch down and hide behind a wall before you can jump over it. And then other face buttons are used for things like "watch an explosion in the distance!".
Click to expand...


On the PC a developer doesn't have to use every key available on the keyboard and on a console a developer doesn't have to use every button on the gamepad for critical moves. Adding a few more buttons offers a greater dynamic range if a developer so chooses to use it.
 
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