Dictator93
Member
Among a number of other ways to reduce the amount of parts that update often, quite clever.
Great looking results.
Can they also be lower to the ground or interesect with high peaks I wonder though.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Siggraph 2015 game graphics papers
- Thread starter Dictator93
- Start date
Among a number of other ways to reduce the amount of parts that update often, quite clever.
Great looking results.
Can they also be lower to the ground or interesect with high peaks I wonder though.
Wow :O
Could someone maybe explain reprojection in short? Is it some sort of interpolation between fewer native frames?
Reprojection is just a 2D warp from the last frame (so; not interpolation..). It's a heavy handed shortcut in principle, but I guess it can be effective in some scenarios if used smart.
Guerrilla has been using reprojection in some interesting ways lately. I didn't like the use of it in SF's MP but it looks good here. I wonder if they had a hand in the Morpheus reprojection tech.
Incredible! And they can get all that within 2 ms on a PS4? Nice!
Dictator93
Member
No idea sadlySame with the stuff from Remedy about their GI.
Why, why do they have to make us suffer ?
2ms on PS4 is fucking insane for those results. I really hope Horizon is a solid performer. Looking that good and having a stable framerate will be a cut above most open world games on console.
I hope this makes into the game in any form cause that seems very demanding.
The clouds generated here seem even more advanced than driveclub in terms of variety and scale. I don't know of any game that comes close. Hopefully sessions like these would help other devs adopt and iterate.
I can't wait until some of the tech like this starts to trickle into multiplat games.
FFXV will have some nice clouds, too, if they can get it to the level shown in the tech demos:
https://youtu.be/_ajDPjrvBaA?t=1m34s
This is how it looks already in the demo in real-time (of course not as huge as in Horizon):
FFXV will have some nice clouds, too, if they can get it to the level shown in the tech demos:
https://youtu.be/_ajDPjrvBaA?t=1m34s
This is how it looks already in the demo in real-time (of course not as huge as in Horizon):
What you see in FFXV is exactly the problem GG has tried to solve.
The next goal.
About time! Need some real rain water simulation too. Realistic streams, overflowing rivers, inundation etc. Not just sprite effects and puddles. People think we are reaching diminishing returns for graphical fidelity, while there are tons of things that aren't even being modeled in real time yet.
Dictator93
Member
Why, why do they have to make us suffer ?
Apparently, it just got posted!
"Multi-scale Global Illumination in Quantum Break"
Yep. Wonder what tricks devs will discover for use in late-gen games. The fluid simulation for fire in Panta Rhei was promising but Capcom hasn't shown anything in forever. :\
I'm totally lost at the voxel part tree since I'm more of a visual artist lol. Still haven't done reading all the slides but Remedy uses a lot of screen-space techniques for Quantum Break.
Arma 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsgYy-Z2_Ck&feature=youtu.be
And thats old video, since then they've added volumetric fog and cloud coverage.
Ps. I've downloaded GG presentation, but i havent got time to read it yet, but something looks off to me on this gif, dunno, maybe its just art thing.
Hey since we're (basically) on the topic, could you possibly give a basic explanation of what the difference actually is? Would be much appreciated.
This isn't anywhere near what is being done in Horizon. This is very similar to Driveclub or FFXV (see video above, not GIF). The issue with such tech is that they are always low hanging randomized fluffy clouds with no real cloud "formations", billowing or thickness. They are all formed essentially by one specific kind of clouds. That's why the stuff GG is doing is pretty cutting edge.
nelsonroyale
Member
The clouds in the Arma 3 video look pretty bad by comparison. The cloud complexity looks pretty low...
Have You even checked other footage? Where people fly in them or new, when they intersect with terrain geometry?
This one is from 2013.
As i said, i havent got time to read through presentation, but cloud complexity is low? Really?
It is low (though I wouldn't call it "bad looking" by any stretch). The fact that it intersects with geometry has nothing to do with the formations themselves having low complexity. It's essentially perlin noise in 3d with varying coverage. It can be used to model one type of cloud.
This is what GG is trying to model:
Dictator93
Member
It is low (though I wouldn't call it "bad looking" by any stretch). The fact that it intersects with geometry has nothing to do with the formations themselves having low complexity. It's essentially perlin noise in 3d with varying coverage. It can be used to model one type of cloud.
This is what GG is trying to model:
Well, both are covering a variety of cases. While it does look hella cool that they are modelling those shapes and what not, the way they are rendered is done from a completely diffferent vantage point. In Arma, can go up and "touch" the clouds so you cannot do cool / intelligent "shortcuts" that make them look right only from a certain distance or certain perspective. If you could get closer / interact with them more, they probably would not be only 2.0 MS on a PS4.
BUt even then, they are spectacular. Now on to volumetric cloud shadows
Finally managed to read through GG presentation.
I'm slightly disappointed by cloud 'geometry' rendering, i thought it would be more advanced, but its really the simplest solution they could get. It probably would break hard if camera would try to dive into them with current implementation.
But man the whole talk about Powder algorithm was amazing, really interesting stuff. The whole lighting talk is excellent and probably the biggest highlight of the presentation.
Optimization seems like very bruteforce approach and i wonder if reprojection will break screenshots a little. Still, its the best they could do, so no complains there, its better to with it than without.
Generally seems like a tech that could be used by all studios and probably will be in point. It definitely has a lot potential for improvement, especially in terms of cloud movement, geometry and color gradients.
---
Now time for Remedy's presentation.
I'm slightly disappointed by cloud 'geometry' rendering, i thought it would be more advanced, but its really the simplest solution they could get. It probably would break hard if camera would try to dive into them with current implementation.
But man the whole talk about Powder algorithm was amazing, really interesting stuff. The whole lighting talk is excellent and probably the biggest highlight of the presentation.
Optimization seems like very bruteforce approach and i wonder if reprojection will break screenshots a little. Still, its the best they could do, so no complains there, its better to with it than without.
Generally seems like a tech that could be used by all studios and probably will be in point. It definitely has a lot potential for improvement, especially in terms of cloud movement, geometry and color gradients.
---
Now time for Remedy's presentation.
Dictator93
Member
Bring on the clouds. Any tech that makes them look better is welcome. Driveclub did them very well.
Never saw that video of the camera going through them before. Cool.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Was going to give a new thread but found this one.
Remedy's in house engine for Quantum Break.
http://advances.realtimerendering.com/s2015/SIGGRAPH_2015_Remedy_Notes.pdf
Remedy's in house engine for Quantum Break.
http://advances.realtimerendering.com/s2015/SIGGRAPH_2015_Remedy_Notes.pdf
LukasTaves
Member
RedLynx (trials) has a very nice talk as well:
http://advances.realtimerendering.c...siggraph2015_combined_final_footer_220dpi.pdf
Looks like the next trials is going all in with gpu driven rendering and async compute.
And they also show a reconstruct technique that uses AA samples for increasing the resolution, like going from 540p to 1080p with an image that's almost a complete match for the native. (And with 30% savings compared to running in 1080p)
And finally it seems that by partitioning their gbuffer between esram and martin memory, they are able to hit 1080p on xbone, on a mildly fat gbuffer, with room to spare even.
http://advances.realtimerendering.c...siggraph2015_combined_final_footer_220dpi.pdf
Looks like the next trials is going all in with gpu driven rendering and async compute.
And they also show a reconstruct technique that uses AA samples for increasing the resolution, like going from 540p to 1080p with an image that's almost a complete match for the native. (And with 30% savings compared to running in 1080p)
And finally it seems that by partitioning their gbuffer between esram and martin memory, they are able to hit 1080p on xbone, on a mildly fat gbuffer, with room to spare even.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Its not possible in the final game. This was a photomode demo they showed before the weather update hit. The final version of photomode is more limited, you can't go that far away from your car or off track.
Deviousx
Member
1080p + MSAA + 60FPS on the XB1? Not bad.
I've always enjoyed reading through Sebastian's work. Whether that would be his tech interviews with Digital Foundry or his posts on Beyond3D. The man is a very talented engineer that's for sure.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
I read on a few sites that Quantum Break won the award for best consoles graphics. Has anyone an official source with all the award winners?
Tomb Raider and Deus Ex slides available but behind a paywall :
https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=2775280.2792529&coll=DL&dl=GUIDE&CFID=709284492&CFTOKEN=10345790
https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=2775280.2775284&coll=DL&dl=GUIDE&CFID=709284492&CFTOKEN=10345790
https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=2775280.2792529&coll=DL&dl=GUIDE&CFID=709284492&CFTOKEN=10345790
https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=2775280.2775284&coll=DL&dl=GUIDE&CFID=709284492&CFTOKEN=10345790
DemonCleaner
Member
amazing.
didn't quite understand, why they still need SSAO und SS Diffuse with a working realtime GI solution, though?
Yes, for higher precision.
Dictator93
Member
Did these ever get posted elsewhere? Perferably, without haveing the need to pay a viewer's fee?
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
I wouldn't call it higher precision, just less noisy image.
Dictator93
Member
Their technique of blending visual information from reflection probes with SSR reminds me of GG's work in Killzone Shadow Fall. And I remember being wowed by their use of specular/ssr occlusion in last year's gameplay demo, just didn't know what the technique was called at the time:
Because you don't see it in many games, especially those with wet surfaces and you see specular/reflective properties leaking through objects (like a few racing games out there). Actually managed to find an image to illustrate exactly what I mean lol (thanks random unity3d forum user!):
And their use of screen space diffuse lighting seems like a pretty smart and efficient way to achieve a well-balanced lighting across all objects in the environment; the photo-editor in me is excited to see more examples of this in the final game
dr_rus
Member
Shameless bump: Siggraph'16 is happening in a couple of days and there will be some interesting gaming related presentations there this year.