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[The Take Out Bandit]

Nintendo Power Vol.191, BUY IT!

Four pages of interview with Matt Bozon, screen shots, and some hot character art!

This game sounds fucking hot. Too bad I don't have a GBA. >:| I'll still buy a copy because Wayforward deserves my money, and yours too!

It sounds like a combination of Super Metroid in the exploration areas, and Radiant Silverdumb in the shooting sections. I'm totally hot for developing a God Cannon and pwnzerizing enemies, with up to three options!

I'm glad to see Nintendo's Own Propaganda tool backing Wayforward. They deserve the publicity, and hopefully this will lead to someone publishing Shantae Advanced, oh god damn it! >:|

Anybody want to sell a NintenD00DS for $5?! That's $5 dollars US that you can use towards the purchase of a PSP. $5 to get you $5 closer to Drinky Crow being off your ass.

You know you want it.

 

[MrDaravon]

Isn't this the one that Monolith is developing or something? When I first heard about it, it totally reminded me of the Guardian Legend, which is the best NES game no one has ever fucking heard of. Then I saw a trailer, and it looks pretty crappy IMO. Shooter part looks like it might be okay, but the exploration part doesn't look too hot. The graphics themselves are alright, but the characters are HUGE on screen, and I wasn't impressed with how it looked in action. Hopefully I'll be wrong when the game is actually out though, I like the combination of genres there.

 

[Tellaerin]

It sounds like a combination of Super Metroid in the exploration areas, and Radiant Silverdumb in the shooting sections.

Trashing games other people like ('Radiant Silverdumb'?) in the process of hyping a new title is kind of counterproductive, don't you think? =/

That said, this sounds pretty interesting. I like side-scrolling action-adventure games and 2D shmups, so this sort of thing's right up my alley. I'll have to check it out.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

Trashing it?!

I love Radiant Silverdumb. Bought it way back when it was released, so I'm not some phoney baloney Johnny come lately fan neither.

I just like saying - Radiant Silverdumb.

Durrr durrrr durrrrrrr. . .

 

[capslock]

Isn't this the one that Monolith is developing or something? When I first heard about it, it totally reminded me of the Guardian Legend, which is the best NES game no one has ever fucking heard of. Then I saw a trailer, and it looks pretty crappy IMO. Shooter part looks like it might be okay, but the exploration part doesn't look too hot. The graphics themselves are alright, but the characters are HUGE on screen, and I wasn't impressed with how it looked in action. Hopefully I'll be wrong when the game is actually out though, I like the combination of genres there.

Is that the one with the Robot that could transform into a spaceship? That was an awesome game, played it like crazy.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

You're not thinking of Thexder, are you? Man that game rocked.

 

[Tellaerin]

Trashing it?!

I love Radiant Silverdumb. Bought it way back when it was released, so I'm not some phoney baloney Johnny come lately fan neither.

I just like saying - Radiant Silverdumb.

Durrr durrrr durrrrrrr. . .

C'mon, man. Don't give me that 'Durrr durrrr durrrrrrr' crap like I'm a retard for thinking that way. Anyone would think you were knocking the game after hearing you use your little pet name for it.

(I bought RSG back when the EB's around here were carrying imported games - dunno if that was nationwide or not. Shame it didn't last longer--their prices were actually really good. The game cost me around $45, IIRC. Anyone else remember EB handling imports?)

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

EB importing was interesting. I wonder how they pulled that one off. . .

The selection was always pretty crap though.

I was fiercely loyal to NCS in those days. I would probably still be if there were a reason to import games.

 

[MrDaravon]

You're not thinking of Thexder, are you? Man that game rocked.

No, it's Guardian Legend. I actually sprung for it a while back complete on Ebay. I've never played Thexder though, I'll check that out now.

 

[Diomedeskun]

Thexder was a side scrolling game for where you played a robot that could transform into a ship at any time. It may have come out on other systems, but I was familiar with Sierra's PC release (it was made in Japan, but I don't remember by whom).

The Guardian Legend was an overhead game for NES where adventure sections were played as a girl who may have been some type of android or wearing transforming armor but who transformed into a ship to play linear shooting levels. Made by Compile and released by Broderbund in the states.

The Guardian Legend was far far better than Thexder.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

I EAGERLY await this game

 

[radios shipping overview]

Well, now that a game like this is getting a big publisher's backing, we'll finally get to see on a large scale what happens when a game incorporates every anti-fun, anti-balance idea from every bad western fan shooter ever made.

Reasons to import:

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

More bits from the article, just to keep things interesting.

Apparently there are seven ships you can pilot in the game. Each with it's own handling traits and payload. Only five of the seven can utilize your customized guns.

The experience system is compared to one of the early Final Fantasy games in that it will try to keep players within five levels of where they need to be to complete their current location in the game. The game will mete out experience points according to your level in the game, and your current experience; so you can't munchkinize and create a super ship early on.

Well, now that a game like this is getting a big publisher's backing, we'll finally get to see on a large scale what happens when a game incorporates every anti-fun, anti-balance idea from every bad western fan shooter ever made.

Your elitism is duly noted, and squarely kicked in the nuts.

If you don't like good Western developers, then get the fuck out of my thread. >:O

 

[Shin Johnpv]

in a list of good shooters borderdown should be far from it

 

[bjork]

Guardian Legend, which is the best NES game no one has ever fucking heard of.

iawtp

It's always the one that draws blank stares when I talk abotu old NES games with customers and stuff. It's too bad, too, TGL is really fun.

 

[Companion Cube]

Oh man I remember Thexder! I had no idea it was from GameArts...

http://www.toadstool.net/games/thexder/about/

 

[Mejilan]

I've been following this game for some time. I really hope it comes out solid. The idea of combining a shooter and an RPG is just freakin' cool. I hope they don't f-ck it up! The last game I bought from this dev left me much less than impressed.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

This game had better fucking rock, because Wayforward needs to break out of "We'll develop licensed games for food" mode.

 

[radios shipping overview]

Your elitism is duly noted, and squarely kicked in the nuts.

If you don't like good Western developers, then get the fuck out of my thread. >:O

I like good western devs. I don't like bad shooter ideas. It's a stereotype, but it seems like any time a western dev team (fan or pro) comes up with an idea for a shooter, it's got to have RPG elements or shops or mix-and-match weapons or free roaming or anything that's there to act completely counter to how a well-balanced, fine-tuned shooter should. I like WayForward's character designs and art, but they're totally on the wrong track with the gameplay in this project from what I can tell.

I embrace my shooter gameplay elitism. >

 

[belgurdo]

I like good western devs. I don't like bad shooter ideas. It's a stereotype, but it seems like any time a western dev team (fan or pro) comes up with an idea for a shooter, it's got to have RPG elements or shops or mix-and-match weapons or free roaming or anything that's there to act completely counter to how a well-balanced, fine-tuned shooter should. I like WayForward's character designs and art, but they're totally on the wrong track with the gameplay in this project from what I can tell.

I embrace my shooter gameplay elitism. >

I'd rather have a stab at innovation rather than another "OMG BULLET HELL" and lolis-as-ships clusterfuck

 

[Companion Cube]

I'd rather have a stab at innovation rather than another "OMG BULLET HELL" and lolis-as-ships clusterfuck

lol. Never thought of the those shooters that way. Good way to put it. :lol

 

[radios shipping overview]

I'd rather have a stab at innovation rather than another "OMG BULLET HELL" and lolis-as-ships clusterfuck

Innovation is overrated. And TGL is boring.

 

[Drinky Crow]

Yeah, I want diverse weapon power-ups and shops to return, thankyouverymuch. AND PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get rid of the loli shit.

 

[radios shipping overview]

AND PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get rid of the loli shit.

You won't hear me arguing there. Mushihimesama's promotional materials are embarassing. Less moe, less otaku-pandering, more ass-kicking. I don't mind all the little girls in Touhou shooters, though - they fit.

 

[djtiesto]

Pardon my ignorance, but what's "loli"?

And yeah, TGL is a great game... Could never quite figure out exactly where to go, though... and I need a turbo controller for my NES... cuz that game rips the skin off the bottom of my thumb So ahead of its time...

 

[djtiesto]

I like good western devs. I don't like bad shooter ideas. It's a stereotype, but it seems like any time a western dev team (fan or pro) comes up with an idea for a shooter, it's got to have RPG elements or shops or mix-and-match weapons or free roaming or anything that's there to act completely counter to how a well-balanced, fine-tuned shooter should. I like WayForward's character designs and art, but they're totally on the wrong track with the gameplay in this project from what I can tell.

I embrace my shooter gameplay elitism. >

What western shooter developers are you talking about, perchance? Honestly, the only western shooters I can recall are this game and Tyrian.

 

[Bebpo]

You won't hear me arguing there. Mushihimesama's promotional materials are embarassing. Less moe, less otaku-pandering, more ass-kicking.

Wtf, that guy/girl said Chun Li was a moe character......NO.

err...back on topic I think there's a huge difference between moe and loli and moe is acceptable for the most part in games.

 

[Drinky Crow]

"loli" or "lolicon" is underaged female fanservice. It's uniformly icky, and its fans should hang themselves.

"moe", as I understand it, is just a specific cute fetish thing, whereby the person feeling "moe" has a "brotherly" affection for a cute character. I call bullshit; as an adult male, you really shouldn't be into blushing little girls in frilly dresses. Strikes me as a milder form of "loli" but with greater cognitive dissonance.

 

[radios shipping overview]

What western shooter developers are you talking about, perchance? Honestly, the only western shooters I can recall are this game and Tyrian.

Tyrian, Raptor, World Reborn (still not out), Xyanide (still not out either, but it looks like they've scaled back their design doc - earlier press material about it claimed 60 hours of gameplay and RPG-style weapon stuff). It's mostly recent American shooters that show that kind of play; Euro shooters have traditionally focused on slick graphics and drone enemies that take way too many hits to kill.

I'm actually hoping that the overhead sections in Sigma play well, despite my lack of enthusiasm for the shooter levels. The game has a nice look overall, even if it seems a bit cramped.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

I like good western devs. I don't like bad shooter ideas. It's a stereotype, but it seems like any time a western dev team (fan or pro) comes up with an idea for a shooter, it's got to have RPG elements or shops or mix-and-match weapons or free roaming or anything that's there to act completely counter to how a well-balanced, fine-tuned shooter should. I like WayForward's character designs and art, but they're totally on the wrong track with the gameplay in this project from what I can tell.

Ah well, it seems the bulk of your complaint is concerning how news shooters stack up against what came before.

I'm not too concerned with that. SSS sounds like it takes the good aspects of games I enjoy (Radiant Silvergun / Super Metroid) and makes a new title of it. Nothing wrong with that.

If I wanted to do nothing but spend my days jerking off over nostalgia, I'd play nothing but Phelios. NAMCO - GIVE ME PHELIOS ON A CLASSICS DISK, YOU BASTARDS! >:|

 

[radios shipping overview]

Ah well, it seems the bulk of your complaint is concerning how news shooters stack up against what came before.

I'm not too concerned with that. SSS sounds like it takes the good aspects of games I enjoy (Radiant Silvergun / Super Metroid) and makes a new title of it. Nothing wrong with that.

If I wanted to do nothing but spend my days jerking off over nostalgia, I'd play nothing but Phelios. NAMCO - GIVE ME PHELIOS ON A CLASSICS DISK, YOU BASTARDS! >:|

Nah, I'm more concerned with the way it seems that when Western devs attack the shooter-problem, they try to introduce wacky bloat and out-of-place features that seem "omg cool" before they get the basics of gameplay and design down. I like modern shooters more than older shooters, and I like the kinds of innovations/refinements/abstractions/new features seen in the best of the new, but shooter deviations into RPG territory just seem to me like a recipe for bland level & enemy design and tensionless play.

If anything, the kind of shooter SSS uses for its battles looks very oldschool compared to what I'm used to, but I'm less concerned about how it looks than about what's under the hood. If WayForward manage to pull off a well-balanced, tightly-designed final product, though, then I'll have nothing to complain about.

 

[duckroll]

27,000 different gun combinations!

27,000 different unbalanced gameplay mechanisms!

27,000 different palette swaps!

27,000 lamebrain ideas!

27,000 rushed concepts!

27,000 rehashes!

27,000 different dumb names!

27,000 different ways to SUCK MY ASS!

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

My main beef with new shooters is as belgurdo aptly summed up.

LET'S FILL THE FUCKING SCREEN WITH BULLETS!

Of course, this isn't exactly a new invention. It's just more commonly used these days.

So I'm all for a shooter that won't appeal to you, and that I can pick up and play at any moment and make progress instead of eating lead 50 times before I make it to the next stage. TOO MANY GAMES TO PLAY, NOT ENOUGH TIME! >:|

27,000 different unbalanced gameplay mechanisms!

27,000 different palette swaps!

27,000 lamebrain ideas!

27,000 rushed concepts!

27,000 rehashes!

27,000 different dumb names!

27,000 different ways to SUCK MY ASS!

Uh - just so you know, this isn't a Capcom game.

*ZING!

 

[radios shipping overview]

Going along with that...

http://www.got-next.com/features_read.php?id=118

Along those same lines, shooters and RPGs challenge the player in very different ways. Some might worry that a skilled player could progress too quickly if he was simply good at the shooting section. It would seem there would be less of a wall to progression? What were some of the challenges you faced with an ambitious concept such as this?

Matt: Yeah, that's been one of the hardest parts, keeping thumb dexterity from negating leveling up. The hero gets tools that keep him from advancing too far in any one direction, which helps guide the player and keep them from milking EXP until it's time to do so.

Phil: The coolest part about how this is integrated is that player skill directly correlates with leveling up in most instances. If some player has insane coordination and can avoid getting hit at all, then technically the player could pass certain sections/boss' that are meant for a higher level. However, this would be like trying to kill an elephant by throwing nerf balls at it; you may be able to do it, but it would take 1 billion nerf balls and an amazing amount of time. If your shooter skills are worse than your best friends, then you'll probably end up being a higher level character by the end of the game than your buddy but both of you will have beat the game in the same amount of time.

It sounds like they're trying to mix two completely opposite design goals. Why are they using shooter gameplay, one of the most skill-based of skill-based genres, at all if they're not planning to reward player skill? Why hold the player back artificially? It sounds like they're trying to enforce player mediocrity.

 

[duckroll]

Uh - just so you know, this isn't a Capcom game.

*ZING!

But it's......... NAMCO!

*reverse ZING!*

 

[radios shipping overview]

But it's......... NAMCO!

*reverse ZING!*

Actually, it's WayForward.

 

[duckroll]

Actually, it's WayForward.

Namco by publishing association still equates to LA BOMBA DA LAMBADA!

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

It sounds like they're trying to enforce player mediocrity.

Doesn't sound that way to me at all, re-read the last paragraph.

The only thing that concerns me is the experience allocation. I tend to prefer making a monster of my character in games where I'm given the choice. If I want to spend 30 hours doing nothing but gaining levels, what's the point in stopping me?

That's pretty much the only gripe I have.

 

[radios shipping overview]

Doesn't sound that way to me at all, re-read the last paragraph.

Yeah, I've read it several times over, and it sounds like diminishing returns for greater skill, when the equation should work in the opposite direction. "Trying to kill an elephant by throwing nerf balls at it" is how I'd describe trying to take down a Gradius boss when you've just died and are left with nothing but your peashooter, not how it feels when you've one-lifed the level so far and have your weapons at full, leaving you with the ability to take the boss down more easily, but also creating more tension and reason for you to keep from dying. I can't say that I enjoy the former sort of feeling, while the latter is a big part of why I play shooters. If they provided a way for the player to feel like he/she's mastering the game either via RPG tactics or raw shooter skills, that would be ideal, but it really doesn't sound to me like they're trying to cater to both skill sets. Or maybe they are, but they don't really have a good idea of how to do it.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

Sounds to me like it's catering to level whores and shooter masochists.

I'm sure there are folks out there that play shooters that take some sick pleasure in throwing nerf balls at an elephant. If you've got the skills, why not flaunt it?

Anyhow, it seems we're not going to see eye to eye on this at any level and my blatant Wayforward fanboyism (towards their original products) overrides any apprehension I have. It's a new Wayforward game that isn't some Saturday morning license and that's reason for celebration.

 

[radios shipping overview]

Anyhow, it seems we're not going to see eye to eye on this at any level and my blatant Wayforward fanboyism (towards their original products) overrides any apprehension I have. It's a new Wayforward game that isn't some Saturday morning license and that's reason for celebration.

I figured we'd end up here eventually. Cheers.