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[OldJadedGamer]

Its because it costs a significant amount of money to patch the game on 360, the publishers have to pay that cost for Microsoft to even consider pushing it through.

Its happened a few times recently, with Fez in particular.

Fez used their free patch and needed another one after that which cost money. Konami didn't even use the first free one so no excuse.

 

[alr1ght]

It costs money to develop the patch though. It probably sold much better on PS3 so they feel they should spend the money and at least fix that version. They'll take the PR hit and move along. It's still pretty shitty to put out a product like this and then never fix it, especially for a company as large as Konami.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

They're not responsible for the game launching this way and screwing you, Konami is.

I'm not disagreeing with Konami being at one-hundred percent technical fault in the current situation, under those terms and conditions. I'm just saying that the outcome of this situation is a direct product of policy set down by the platform holder. Now, on one hand with contracts and big corporate players, the rules are known beforehand, but that doesn't change the fact that consumers are being served by both platform holder and their constituent publisher/developer whose software sales they make money off of.

I'm arguing for a situation that would help everyone at once (and one that largely exists on alternative platforms), not a continuation of outdated thinking, no matter how much legalese and cost of testing process and its infrastructure is involved from the start. Perhaps this isn't thread to speak of it, as Draconian says, but it's my immediate response in thinking because I'm thinking from the consumer point of view instead of pointing out the technicalities in a rulebook written to better serve themselves than someone who gives them money for the games and service they provide, or in this case, refuse to provide.

 

[DryvBy]

I played through SH2 (Xbox original) a few times. When I loaded up the PS3 HD copy of 3, I couldn't hardly play through it. The sounds are what killed it for me. I was waiting for a patch to mainly fix that. They just randomly would cut out or the music would die and never come back. It was pretty bad.

 

[JaxJag]

If the game is as bad as everyone claims, how did it ever pass cert?

Sounds like to me it's the console holder's faults.

 

[Teknoman]

So glad I didn't pick this up. I'll go find the PS2 versions or something instead.

Please do. They still look great today, and if not, go with the PC versions.

If the game is as bad as everyone claims, how did it ever pass cert?

Sounds like to me it's the console holder's faults.

Did you see all the evidence, screenshots, videos, etc. in the OT? Definitely not console owners fault.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

It costs money to develop the patch though. It probably sold much better on PS3 so they feel they should spend the money and at least fix that version. They'll take the PR hit and move along. It's still pretty shitty to put out a product like this and then never fix it, especially for a company as large as Konami.

Well, they had enough money to work on a patch for a game that didn't need one and that worked perfectly ok... I'm sure they have enough money to patch a broken game they released.

 

[Valnen]

Is everyone just going to stop releasing patches on 360 now?

I hope so. Maybe it will force Microsoft to change it's stupid policy. All companies should just refuse to patch anything on 360, even their first free one, until all patches are significantly reduced in cost or made free. If they refuse to budge, simply stop developing games for that console. The console will die faster than the publishers will.

 

[Persona7]

This thread made me laugh pretty hard.



Anyone who thinks that Konami is not at fault is a buffoon.

This piece of shit game was patched TWICE on PS3 and it is still a broken piece of trash. The first patch was supposed to fix the game but it DID NOTHING.

 

[Psychotext]

If the game is as bad as everyone claims, how did it ever pass cert?

Cert says nothing for the quality of a game, only that it doesn't break certain technical requirements (or cause your console to explode / format itself etc).

 

[Augemitbutter]

how bad did this game sell on 360?

 

[kunonabi]

Ouch sucks for 360 users. I kept my PS3 version which was a wise decision because the patch fixed everything. The fog is better, the lip sync is back in sync, and most importantly there's no more stuttering or slow mo. The streets looking so clean didn't bother me as I prefer the HD widescreen look compared to the blurred gritty look of the PS2 versions.

music and voices were still fucked.

 

[Mr. Enigma]

The people doing the Cheetahmen II kickstarter need to do a kickstarter for the 360 patch.

I'm only half serious.

 

[Raoh]

I hope so. Maybe it will force Microsoft to change it's stupid policy. All companies should just refuse to patch anything on 360, even their first free one, until all patches are significantly reduced in cost or made free. If they refuse to budge, simply stop developing games for that console. The console will die faster than the publishers will.

If only gamers would have thought that way when it came to xbox live gold fees and pay wall for access to apps.

 

[bigtroyjon]

One thing which amazes me is that no-one has actually come out and said what each of the big players charges for patches as of yet. There has to be someone on GAF with that knowledge... so how is it that it hasn't been shared yet. Couldn't be covered by an NDA could it?

Someone has actually come out and talked about it for the 360, it's 10K.

I don't have the link, but I think it was in the Fez thread.

 

[DidntKnowJack]

I thought the Fez patch was closer to 40K. Or was that just being widely mis-reported?

 

[ShockingAlberto]

So the interesting thing about this for me is that Konami has pretty significant financial incentive to do this patch and won't.

Why on earth would anyone buy either version of the ZoE HD Collection if it's possible it could ship broken and never be fixed? $40k (on the high end) is kind of a small price to pay to get that mindshare on your side. What about other future titles?

It just seems like such a strange thing to willingly flush your reputation down the toilet.

 

[clear31]

Just e-mailed Konami, i don't expect anything but a typical response telling me nothing but whatever theres nothing else I can do.

 

[MormaPope]

So the interesting thing about this for me is that Konami has pretty significant financial incentive to do this patch and won't.

Why on earth would anyone buy either version of the ZoE HD Collection if it's possible it could ship broken and never be fixed? $40k (on the high end) is kind of a small price to pay to get that mindshare on your side. What about other future titles?

It just seems like such a strange thing to willingly flush your reputation down the toilet.

While Konami is definitely in the wrong concerning Silent Hill, the code available and developer for ZoE HD collection could result in a faithful and awesome game.

The MGS HD collection was a god send.

But you do have a point, and I won't be rushing to get the ZoE HD collection, waiting for hands on impressions is a must at this point.

 

[Nemesis_]

How absolutely embarrassing.

 

[Night_Trekker]

"But, please, buy whatever SH-branded game we pinch off next."

I only cackle as you burn because I loved you so much, Silent Hill.

 

[ResidentDante]

In my restless dreams,
I see that game, Silent Hill HD Collection.
You promised you'd patch it for me one day, but you never did.
Well, it's alone there now, on a Gamestop shelf ...Waiting for you...

Hahahaha, this made my tired, early morning at work worthwhile. Thanks!

 

[Mr. Enigma]

I wish there was someway Akira Yamaoka could buy this IP from Konami. He doesn't even have to do anything with it. Just get it away from fuckface Tomm Hulett and the band of shitholes at Konami from ruining it even further.

 

[Palette Swap]

Its because it costs a significant amount of money to patch the game on 360, the publishers have to pay that cost for Microsoft to even consider pushing it through.

Its happened a few times recently, with Fez in particular.

It doesn't change shit honestly, it's pretty clear cut.

a) I really doubt PS3 patches are free.

b) Konami released a half-assed effort.

c) Konami chooses not to patch it.

Saying this is on MS is like saying Bethesda games sucking ass on PS3 are on Sony for using a particular architecture, which would be as untrue.

 

[LiquidSolid]

If the game is as bad as everyone claims, how did it ever pass cert?

Sounds like to me it's the console holder's faults.

A lot of people seem to confuse the role of certification. They're not QA, they're regulators. They make sure games follow their standards (from stuff like X being the select button and circle being the cancel button to ensuring the game doesn't open holes in the security), actual game performance is up to the developer/publisher.

 

[Jawmuncher]

I'm just gonna grab some copies on the PS2 now.
I kept holding off thinking the HD port was going to be good, but that ain't happening.

 

[Fafalada]

You guys really don't think Konami can afford $40,000 to patch Silent Hill, one of the only viable franchises they have left?

"Cost management".
It's not exactly unprecedented for a company to spend 10s of milions on a project and then balk at spending a few 10k more on it.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

So the interesting thing about this for me is that Konami has pretty significant financial incentive to do this patch and won't.

Why on earth would anyone buy either version of the ZoE HD Collection if it's possible it could ship broken and never be fixed? $40k (on the high end) is kind of a small price to pay to get that mindshare on your side. What about other future titles?

It just seems like such a strange thing to willingly flush your reputation down the toilet.

I won't purchase any future Konami products if this is how they will treat gamers who do.

 

[Anteater]

 

[Speedymanic]

I won't purchase any future Konami products if this is how they will treat gamers who do.

Yup, after ZoE HD is released, I won't be buying any more Konami games.

 

[reptilescorpio]

This is 100% on Konami. To say this is because of Microsofts policies is just insane. The policy isn't ideal and needs to be changed but has NO influence on this situation.
Konami have a free patch.
Konami don't want to do the work to patch a game they gave half a shit at putting out.
End of story.

I wish there was someway Akira Yamaoka could buy this IP from Konami. He doesn't even have to do anything with it. Just get it away from fuckface Tomm Hulett and the band of shitholes at Konami from ruining it even further.

He could hand it to Team Siren and saddle up with them!

 

[Kenshin001]

Someone has actually come out and talked about it for the 360, it's 10K.

I don't have the link, but I think it was in the Fez thread.

Phil Fish said $40,000 in his speech at Gamelab. It's about the 13:40 mark.

 

[rvy]

There's no PR department on the planet that can save this mess.
Also, Microsoft must have some fucking hefty fees for people to just not give a shit and alienate their userbase.

 

[PIMPBYBLUD]

Yup, after ZoE HD is released, I won't be buying any more Konami games.

.

 

[Speedymanic]

Phil Fish said $40,000 in his speech at Gamelab. It's about the 13:40 mark.

Do you have a link?

Anyway, it doesn't appear to be set in stone. It's negotiable.

That last part is perhaps the most interesting, since Polytron claimed Microsoft's price for a new title update was $10,000 – this statement makes it sound like Microsoft may have been willing to negotiate on the price.

http://www.joystiq.com/2012/07/20/microsoft-responds-to-polytrons-fez-patch-claims/

 

[KageMaru]

This is 100% on Konami. To say this is because of Microsofts policies is just insane. The policy isn't ideal and needs to be changed but has NO influence on this situation.
Konami have a free patch.
Konami don't want to do the work to patch a game they gave half a shit at putting out.
End of story.

Pretty much this. There have been some incredibly stupid posts in this thread, as if other companies just allow patches for free. Of course this is a 360 thread, so some will jump to the most horrible conclusions.

Phil Fish said $40,000 in his speech at Gamelab. It's about the 13:40 mark.

Link please? I'd be interested to hear this since there have been a few reports that the $40k estimate was referring to both consoles.

It should also be kept in mind that there are different types of patches and I would assume different levels of cost.

 

[derExperte]

I'm just saying that the outcome of this situation is a direct product of policy set down by the platform holder.

I highly doubt that's the case here. The situation is the result of a horrible remake/port done by a horrible company, I don't see how MS has any responsibility this time. But I guess nowadays everything is their fault if they are involved in any way.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

There's no PR department on the planet that can save this mess.
Also, Microsoft must have some fucking hefty fees for people to just not give a shit and alienate their userbase.

Facts:

MS offers the first patch free
Konami didn't use the first patch that was free
Konami paid to patch a different game that was working fine and didn't need it

Conclusion:

Konami doesn't care about gamers who buy their products and are only a one game company. If it isn't that one game that props their entire company up, they don't care about it.

 

[Kenshin001]

Pretty much this. There have been some incredibly stupid posts in this thread, as if other companies just allow patches for free. Of course this is a 360 thread, so some will jump to the most horrible conclusions.



Link please? I'd be interested to hear this since there have been a few reports that the $40k estimate was referring to both consoles.

It should also be kept in mind that there are different types of patches and I would assume different levels of cost.

Sorry, it's actually the 14:30 mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LG1fOOUSOw

 

[MightyHedgehog]

I highly doubt that's the case here. The situation is the result of a horrible remake/port done by a horrible company, I don't see how MS has any responsibility here.

Right, MS can take the high road while pocketing the money and the consumer on their platform suffers. MS should be responsible for, at least, whatever fallout there is to their shared customer for their approved third party's behavior there. That would be my view, as a consumer, bound to the results of their policy creating situations like this, of course.

On the cost of patches, does the 'free' part pertain to the release of the title update or does it only mean that the first TU submission fee is waived regardless of its success or failure at passing their certification?

 

[Bowler]

Minimal fixes, that's prob why they aren't releasing it on 360.

ummm no. its much better.

 

[Speedymanic]

Sorry, it's actually the 14:30 mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LG1fOOUSOw

And he's back to moaning about Minecraft.

As I suspected, dude's still bitter over Notch getting what he considers to be preferential treatment.

hard to take him seriously.

 

[Gintamen]

I love how they still pimp its still available for sell worldwide.

Haha, Sorry we won't patch your version of the game, but it's still available everywhere. Oh man, MS has to think this through for the next console.

 

[KageMaru]

Sorry, it's actually the 14:30 mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LG1fOOUSOw

Thanks. I still don't buy that it's $40k as standard since we've read/heard differently before and knowing Phil's recent past of bitterness.

Really if anyone wishes to have some insight to the patching topic (seeing how that's where this thread went), here's a good thread:

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=62174

Right, MS can take the high road while pocketing the money and the consumer on their platform suffers. MS should be responsible for, at least, whatever fallout there is to their shared customer for their approved third party's behavior there. That would be my view, as a consumer, bound to the results of their policy creating situations like this, of course.

On the cost of patches, does the 'free' part pertain to the release of the title update or does it only mean that the first TU submission fee is waived regardless of its success or failure at passing their certification?

Wait, you're saying MS should take responsibility for whatever fallout there is over a 3rd party company? What?....

I believe you can submit the first patch twice for free.

 

[Ingueferroque]

I love how they still pimp its still available for sell worldwide.

Hilarious

 

[Kafel]

So when will Konami finally die ?

 

[OldJadedGamer]

So when will Konami finally die ?

Once the only game they make (MGS) stops selling. It seriously is the only thing that keeps the company out of bankruptcy.

 

[Typographenia]

I think this confirms we will never see Tomm Hulett (GAF name "Roland Stiles") post here ever again.

A mod should give him a tag of "Available at retail".

Your complete and utter hatred for the man never ceases to amaze me.


This HD collection was such an easy way to get back in right standing with a lot of people very easily, and they blew it so badly. Come on, Konami, geez.
Sorry for anyone that was waiting on news for the patch. Really terrible way to end the waiting.

 

[Gintamen]

why the f would you announce this? just you know, silently never release it like every other company. announcing it just makes you look awful.

Isn't it better to cancel something early on, instead of letting owners wait and wait and burst the enormous expectation bubble afterwards?

Once the only game they make (MGS) stops selling. It seriously is the only thing that keeps the company out of bankruptcy.

Than they better not cancel any patches for those too.

 

[nubbe]

Silent Hill 3: Best Graphics 4ever