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Silicon Studios' Mizuchi engine to be demoed at GDC 2015

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http://www.siliconstudio.co.jp/en/news/pressreleases/2015/en1502gdc.html
We will be showcasing the tools included in the physically-based rendering engine, "Mizuchi". We will be presenting the workflow of how "Mizuchi" can actually be applied using the real-time demo "Museum" which we released last year. There will be a PC demo version as well as a real-time demo using PlayStation®4. There will also be a demo session which will highlight the main features of "Mizuchi" (see below for details).
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Mizuchi (+YEBIS 3 + Paradox) GDC 2015 trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnTYhlxi-Cs

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Here's Museum demo trailer and screens from Sep 2014: http://www.siliconstudio.co.jp/nex-gen/en/

Live PC demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqrJNKW0LcY

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Quote from Dualshockers regarding the Museum demo:
Software Engineers Sei Imai and Steven Tsang explained that the engine already runs on PS4 at 30 frames per second in 1080p. The original demo (seen in the trailer) on PC ran at 60 frames per second on a system equipped with a Nvidia GTX 780 Ti video card.
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Tech paper: http://www.slideshare.net/siliconstudio/ss-38733183

- 60fps on GeForce GTX 780 Ti at 1920x1080
- 20fps on GeForce GTX 860M at 1920x1080

 
I want to see how scalable this engine would be for consoles (when used in games) now that they're first generation consoles to use PBR.
 
60fps on a 780ti ? Impressive.

Given how good it looks I was not expecting it to run so well on a Kepler GPU. I wonder how a 980 would fare.
 
Nirolak said:
Are there any games or companies actually signed up to use this?
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If there are, they haven't mentioned it on their website yet. Their front page has a list of companies they've worked with, but I don't think the likes of Pixar are too interested in a video game engine.
 
Nirolak said:
Are there any games or companies actually signed up to use this?
Click to expand...
I know some games used the middle ware, YEBIS.

FFXV used it in E3 2013 when it was in its old engine, but they dropped YEBIS when they migrated to Luminous.

Alternatively, SS also develops their own games. Will be interesting to see I'd they also use this internally.
 
Kezen said:
60fps on a 780ti ? Impressive.

Given how good it looks I was not expecting it to run so well on a Kepler GPU. I wonder how a 980 would fare.
Click to expand...

In the paper they describe, how like UE4, they are using a lot of light mapping. THat would save a bunch of performance.
 
Engine video always look amazing because a few people make 1 room for 4 months.
If you would make entire game on that level of detail it would take 1000+ people a few years like GTA level of attention and $ spend.

That is just not feasible.
 
wmlk said:
I know some games used the middle ware, YEBIS.

FFXV used it in E3 2013 when it was in its old engine, but they dropped YEBIS when they migrated to Luminous.
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Yebis isn't an engine actually. It's middleware for post processing effects like lens flare and depth of field. It's kind of like how Havoc is a physics engine.
 
Nirolak said:
Yebis isn't an engine actually. It's middleware for post processing effects like lens flare and depth of field. It's kind of like how Havoc is a physics engine.
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Well, that's why I said middle ware. It was more of a general comment on people using SS's technology.

But as I said, they seemingly have a small game development team and I wonder if they've used their own engine internally and of they'll showcase a game of their own.
 
So... yeah the video of the museum is awesomely pretty indeed, but what makes that engine so special (excepted for that of course) in a not-a-programmer-but-I-know-the-basics-of-it-language?
 
Looks great. Silicon always does great tech and middleware. They should use it to make another game of their own though. Like 3D Dot Game Heroes 2!
 
Damn, and 30FPS on PS4? I'll believe it when I see it.
 
wmlk said:
Well, that's why I said middle ware. It was more of a general comment on people using SS's technology.

But as I said, they seemingly have a small game development team and I wonder if they've used their own engine internally and of they'll showcase a game of their own.
Click to expand...

They would have to have someone willing to pay their bills whilst they made a PS4(XBO/PC) game though and they probably have some commitment to Square Enix for the Bravely series that would have to be worked around.
 
Dictator93 said:
In the paper they describe, how like UE4, they are using a lot of light mapping. THat would save a bunch of performance.
Click to expand...

That explains partly why it runs so well. It looks almost...real though.
Is a game with that level of fidelity financially possible ?
 
Nirolak said:
Are there any games or companies actually signed up to use this?
Click to expand...

Not yet. Presumably that's what they'll be aggressively marketing now that it seems to be ready. Previously I believe they only showed a tech demo of it, but at GDC they'll be showcasing the actual tools for the first time. So it looks like a marketing effort to other developers.
 
Oregano said:
They would have to have someone willing to pay their bills whilst they made a PS4(XBO/PC) game though and they probably have some commitment to Square Enix for the Bravely series that would have to be worked around.
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If they can develop their own engine, I think they're competent enough to make a small game concept with their staff. Bravely Second is nearly done, anyway.
 
wmlk said:
If they can develop their own engine, I think they're competent enough to make a small game concept with their staff. Bravely Second is nearly done, anyway.
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Well the idea is to license their engine(it's a separate division) and there's still work to be done on the international version(if it's happening) and considering SE trademarked Bravely Third they probably want a third one at the very least and it's in Silicon Studio's best interest to be available.

EDIT: They might be able to do a download game but there's no guarantee it would be technically impressive and considering their latest non-Bravely game was a licensed game it probably means they have to take gigs to keep the lights on.
 
Silicon Studios is doing all sorts of awesome stuff when it comes to graphics. I really hope more Japanese developers start working with them since so many seem to be stuck using archaic techniques for their games and seem resistant to using western stuff that typically has only English documentation.
 
Oregano said:
Well the idea is to license their engine(it's a separate division) and there's still work to be done on the international version(if it's happening) and considering SE trademarked Bravely Third they probably want a third one at the very least and it's in Silicon Studio's best interest to be available.
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Yeah, but they don't have any other games developing using Mizuchi obviously. They were making a big deal years ago and doing PVs for games showcasing YEBIS, and obviously they can't do that here.

It would be a smart decision to make something tangible with your own engine as a showcase to third-party developers. A game concept or a playable demo is good for that. I'm not saying it has to be something incredibly taxing.
 
wmlk said:
If they can develop their own engine, I think they're competent enough to make a small game concept with their staff. Bravely Second is nearly done, anyway.
Click to expand...

It's not necessary though. They're marketing their middleware to other developers, not to gamers. Their clients care how user friendly the tools are, how good their support is, and so on, not whether they made a game with it themselves or not. They have 300 staff, if they wanted to spend money on it, they can definitely do it, but since they're not in the game publishing business, they have no need to. Waste of resources.

Hexadrive is another tech-driven Japanese developer who made their own engine and never made a single game on it. Instead the Hexaengine was licensed to Game Republic for Majin and Knights Contract, and eventually they announced that Silicon Studio adapted the engine tech and folded it into their Orochi engine.
 
duckroll said:
Not yet. Presumably that's what they'll be aggressively marketing now that it seems to be ready. Previously I believe they only showed a tech demo of it, but at GDC they'll be showcasing the actual tools for the first time. So it looks like a marketing effort to other developers.
Click to expand...
That's what I was thinking might be the case. GDC is a very appropriate venue for doing so.

duckroll said:
It's not necessary though. They're marketing their middleware to other developers, not to gamers. Their clients care how user friendly the tools are, how good their support is, and so on, not whether they made a game with it themselves or not. They have 300 staff, if they wanted to spend money on it, they can definitely do it, but since they're not in the game publishing business, they have no need to. Waste of resources.

Hexadrive is another tech-driven Japanese developer who made their own engine and never made a single game on it. Instead the Hexaengine was licensed to Game Republic for Majin and Knights Contract, and eventually they announced that Silicon Studio adapted the engine tech and folded it into their Orochi engine.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the only benefit to making a game on the engine is that it helps test and assert the toolset for actual game development, as well as finding any bottlenecks in making an actual game run or just trying to develop one in general.

However, if you feel confident that the engine doesn't need this kind of proof of concept phase, there's no standardized need to make a game in order to sell an engine.

Unity is an engine where the engine vendor never really shipped games themselves. They're working on publishing Unity games now as they push even further to find faults and bottlenecks in their new revisions before their licensees have to, but they didn't start that way.
 
copelandmaster said:
Perhaps you should take a closer look.

Silicon Studio New Rendering Engine - Tech Demo Preview

Rendering Engine Mizuchi Tech Demo – "Museum"


I guess this engine is the one SE used for the (re)announcement of FFXV.

I can't decided which looks better: Agni on Luminous or FFXV's target on Mizuchi.
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They did not use Mizuchi for FFXV.

They used the middleware YEBIS 2, which isn't even the latest revision YEBIS 3.

Even chronologically, I dunno how you came to that conclusion. Do you really think SE would showcase an engine 2 years before GDC 2015?
 
Nirolak said:
I think they mean the CG pre-rendered target trailer using game assets from the E3 re-unveil.
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Right, and PVs from Silicon Studio explicitly stated it was YEBIS 2.

There was key staff on Silicon Studio who even said that only the trailer from FFXV used YEBIS 2, knowing that the game would be migrated to Luminous.

Interestingly, YEBIS 2 was used in Agni's Philosophy as a part of Luminous Studio, so I guess they dropped YEBIS 2 altogether from Luminous.
 
That's insane.

And that's only 1080p? The IQ is quite spectacular.

And how on earth does it retain such incredible textures even when zoomed in like that?
 
wmlk said:
They did not use Mizuchi for FFXV.

They used the middleware YEBIS 2, which isn't even the latest revision YEBIS 3.

Even chronologically, I dunno how you came to that conclusion. Do you really think SE would showcase an engine 2 years before GDC 2015?
Click to expand...

Nirolak said:
I think they mean the CG pre-rendered target trailer using game assets from the E3 re-unveil.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Target used Mizuchi, gamplay used Ebony.

Yebis is post-processing only. Many other games on a variety of engines use it. The Brigade real-time path-tracer and Octane Render also are compatible.

SE was probably collaborating with Silicon (like they have done numerous times in the past) on an unfinished version of Mizuchi because, by comparison, Luminous wasn't near ready for prime time, and Ebony wasn't a suitable environment, being a transitional engine and all.
 
i-Lo said:
I want to see how scalable this engine would be for consoles (when used in games) now that they're first generation consoles to use PBR.
Click to expand...

There was PBR last gen.
http://www.defrostgames.com/tag/physically-based-lighting/
http://www.fxguide.com/featured/game-environments-parta-remember-me-rendering/

PBR is not really hardware intensive as it's just a concept/workflow. Where the power might come from is how high quality your assets are in addition to calculating reflections in a scene.
 
Seanspeed said:
That's insane.

And that's only 1080p? The IQ is quite spectacular.

And how on earth does it retain such incredible textures even when zoomed in like that?
Click to expand...

Maybe the bot has textures like 16 times the resolution of everything else because people are automatically going to zoom in on it.
 
the engine already runs on PS4 at 30 frames per second in 1080p.
Click to expand...

"The engine runs at x resolution and framerate" what the hell does that mean.

Maybe this specific tech demo runs at 1080p and 30 fps, yes, but that doesn't really prove anything since we don't know how much it would have to be pared back if the console also had to process game logic, AIs, etc, and more than one small cute robot.

Still, it's pretty.
 
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