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[Drillary Clinton]

The first piece of media i ever saw about this game was an article saying that people were angry about the main female character either having or not having a butthole. I will never play this game for that reason.

 

[bubumiao]

The first piece of media i ever saw about this game was an article saying that people were angry about the main female character either having or not having a butthole. I will never play this game for that reason.

Why would that affect your decision to play or not play this game? It is irrelevant, but I think you're just trolling.

 

[Daouzin]

Watched this a few days ago. It's a great video and it definitely echoes my thoughts on the game.

Same, I shared it on my facebook and to all my friends that would listen. Got more than a few to be like, "dammit, fine, i'll play it," haha.

They sound like they actually will too.

I know it's still early in the year, but I can't see very many games, if any, topping this one.

I'm enjoying BotW right now, but the experience just isn't as cohesive as Nier. No emotional attachment to any of the shrines or tasks I'm given in that game. Still a FANTASTIC game, but N:A just tied everything together so well. I still think about it daily and I beat it like weeks ago.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Eh I still hinestly don't like the video that much. I need more analysis than just "everything is super duper DUPER fantastic". The comparisons to EVA and dark souls also makes me roll my eyes, though both for different reasons.

Then again maybe it's because I've finsihed and loved the game and want a more in-depth discussion.

 

[CommandThrower]

I would like to play this one day when I am clear of other games that I'm playing.


That said, I'm not playing the first Nier or any of the Drakengards beforehand. If playing Nier: Automata will make me want to play these other games, then I will--but not before.

 

[Sera O]

Much like how some people only read for light entertainment and would never get anything out of Pale Fire, I don't expect that Nier or Nier Automata will speak to a huge number of people. But for the few who look to engage with their entertainment in a specific way, and appreciate the internal consistency and how densely it is built, there isn't any other game that compares. These games don't just stand up to examination, they reward it. Going from Horizon (or probably any game) to Automata felt like being given solid food after getting used to (painstakingly prepared and deliciously seasoned) puree. Like, finally. Something to let my brain chew on.

Videogame critique is pretty sad; it's like reading checklist reviews for toasters. It toasts bread, has some features that make it better than last year's toaster, blah blah. A game like this coming out exposes how nascent game criticism is and how limited the framework is for how good one is or isn't.

As for the demo, I found it faintly hilarious that one exists (but if that got some people interested enough to buy it then that's great). Oh you read twenty pages of Ulysses and don't like it? Cool, go read Salvatore or SOIAF or whatnot, there are so many things that are made specifically for people who want that, and it's great that they exist. But taking it to task for not being your mass market genre fiction or movie wannabe is a bit depressing. In no other entertainment medium do we expect every moment of an ambitious work to be completely enjoyable. That the Nier games mostly manage to be, all while showing this density of ideas and a coherent vision - that's amazing to me.

Disregarding all of the symbolism and masterful direction in NGE because the religious stuff was chosen for aesthetics is like disregarding the same in Automata because the bosses being named after philosophers isn't really important. It's missing the forest for a single tree.

About the names, I would have to look stuff up on the rest of the bosses, but Simone at least was far from arbitrary. It's not necessary to be, but it adds to the encounter if you are familiar with her proto feminist writing.

Spoiler

"One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman."

I wouldn't call that unimportant, especially when you consider that during the fight, you see that

Spoiler

she has actually built herself a metal cage in the form of a skirt and lives buried under it, striving towards some kind of feminine ideal

. It makes the associated side quest kind of chilling in retrospect. So few machines have a visible gender, but

Spoiler

the girl machines after Jean Paul have already started down that path of modifying themselves in various ways, probably trying to get his attention.

. It's part of the common trend of the machines taking all the wrong shit from human culture.

I think Kierkegaard's name is somewhat meaningful when he comes up, if you think about the assertion that trying to understand life rationally is useless. There's also that quote about prayer not influencing god, but changing the person who prays. That echoes with the larger themes of Automata too,

Spoiler

where the 'gods' being venerated are past being of any significance, but it's the act of veneration that has power

.

The other name connections may be totally meaningless for all I know. But at least a couple of them aren't just pointless 'look we existentialist now' namedrops.

 

[bubumiao]

I would like to play this one day when I am clear of other games that I'm playing.


That said, I'm not playing the first Nier or any of the Drakengards beforehand. If playing Nier: Automata will make me want to play these other games, then I will--but not before.

I was gonna play the Drakengard series, but after playing up to the first mission flying on the dragon's back I said fuck it and watched Clemps' videos on YouTube (might eventually play them in the future). The camera just annoyed me too much. I suggest watching his Drakengard videos though at least for the lore.

 

[Willenium]

Why would that affect your decision to play or not play this game? It is irrelevant, but I think you're just trolling.

The first Nier game ended up in the PS3 bargain bins with reviews topping out at "For the price, it's a decent game." then, the fact that my first impression of the sequel was some drummed-up creepy-weirdo controversy, it really sealed my opinion of that entire franchise.

 

[Isaac Otherworld]

(MAJOR AUTOMATA SPOILERS, NEWBS DON'T READ)

Spoiler

2B choking 9S as N2 looks on is straight out of the last scene of End of Evangelion

I agree that "if you like NGE, then you'll like Automata" and vice versa are silly statements, though. They are ultimately very different, even if they share similarities.

I'm not saying if you like NGE you'll like Automata.

I think there is clearly a lot of inspiration pulled from it that you can see in all of Taro Yoko's games. Like a lot. And really blatantly. From always having multiple endings, to the Giant Naked Women unleashing the apocalypse, and how he generally likes to start his stories with a straightforward set up only to shift radically in tone towards the end. And it's a more apt comparison thank Dark Souls of all things.

Spoiler

Yeah but there aren't assholes clapping at you at the end.

Spoiler

The dev team sings for you at the end. That's pretty cool.

Much like how some people only read for light entertainment and would never get anything out of Pale Fire, I don't expect that Nier or Nier Automata will speak to a huge number of people. But for the few who look to engage with their entertainment in a specific way, and appreciate the internal consistency and how densely it is built, there isn't any other game that compares. These games don't just stand up to examination, they reward it. Going from Horizon (or probably any game) to Automata felt like being given solid food after getting used to (painstakingly prepared and deliciously seasoned) puree. Like, finally. Something to let my brain chew on.

Videogame critique is pretty sad; it's like reading checklist reviews for toasters. It toasts bread, has some features that make it better than last year's toaster, blah blah. A game like this coming out exposes how nascent game criticism is and how limited the framework is for how good one is or isn't.

As for the demo, I found it faintly hilarious that one exists (but if that got some people interested enough to buy it then that's great). Oh you read twenty pages of Ulysses and don't like it? Cool, go read Salvatore or SOIAF or whatnot, there are so many things that are made specifically for people who want that, and it's great that they exist. But taking it to task for not being your mass market genre fiction or movie wannabe is a bit depressing. In no other entertainment medium do we expect every moment of an ambitious work to be completely enjoyable. That the Nier games mostly manage to be, all while showing this density of ideas and a coherent vision - that's amazing to me.



About the names, I would have to look stuff up on the rest of the bosses, but Simone at least was far from arbitrary. It's not necessary to be, but it adds to the encounter if you are familiar with her proto feminist writing.

Spoiler

"One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman."

I wouldn't call that unimportant, especially when you consider that during the fight, you see that

Spoiler

she has actually built herself a metal cage in the form of a skirt and lives buried under it, striving towards some kind of feminine ideal

. It makes the associated side quest kind of chilling in retrospect. So few machines have a visible gender, but

Spoiler

the girl machines after Jean Paul have already started down that path of modifying themselves in various ways, probably trying to get his attention.

. It's part of the common trend of the machines taking all the wrong shit from human culture.

I think Kierkegaard's name is somewhat meaningful when he comes up, if you think about the assertion that trying to understand life rationally is useless. There's also that quote about prayer not influencing god, but changing the person who prays. That echoes with the larger themes of Automata too,

Spoiler

where the 'gods' being venerated are past being of any significance, but it's the act of veneration that has power

.

The other name connections may be totally meaningless for all I know. But at least a couple of them aren't just pointless 'look we existentialist now' namedrops.

This is the kind of analysis of N:A that I'd really like to see more of.

 

[bubumiao]

The first Nier game ended up in the PS3 bargain bins with reviews topping out at "For the price, it's a decent game." then, the fact that my first impression of the sequel was some drummed-up creepy-weirdo controversy, it really sealed my opinion of that entire franchise.

Your loss I guess. Then again if you've dismissed the entire series I'm still curious why you're reading this thread.

I think you might be on the fence about giving these games a try, just looking for the right nudge. I could also be overthinking it.

 

[Moaradin]

Eh I still hinestly don't like the video that much. I need more analysis than just "everything is super duper DUPER fantastic". The comparisons to EVA and dark souls also makes me roll my eyes, though both for different reasons.

Then again maybe it's because I've finsihed and loved the game and want a more in-depth discussion.

I mean, you can't really say much without going into spoilers.

 

[Sorcerer Supreme]

The first Nier game ended up in the PS3 bargain bins with reviews topping out at "For the price, it's a decent game." then, the fact that my first impression of the sequel was some drummed-up creepy-weirdo controversy, it really sealed my opinion of that entire franchise.

that's quite sad

 

[LotusHD]

Eh I still hinestly don't like the video that much. I need more analysis than just "everything is super duper DUPER fantastic". The comparisons to EVA and dark souls also makes me roll my eyes, though both for different reasons.

Then again maybe it's because I've finsihed and loved the game and want a more in-depth discussion.

I really, really loved this article: https://tanoshimi.xyz/2017/03/21/violet-evergarden-spoilers/ (Yes, spoilers for the entire game)

The first Nier game ended up in the PS3 bargain bins with reviews topping out at "For the price, it's a decent game." then, the fact that my first impression of the sequel was some drummed-up creepy-weirdo controversy, it really sealed my opinion of that entire franchise.

I still don't get this.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

Much like how some people only read for light entertainment and would never get anything out of Pale Fire, I don't expect that Nier or Nier Automata will speak to a huge number of people. But for the few who look to engage with their entertainment in a specific way, and appreciate the internal consistency and how densely it is built, there isn't any other game that compares. These games don't just stand up to examination, they reward it. Going from Horizon (or probably any game) to Automata felt like being given solid food after getting used to (painstakingly prepared and deliciously seasoned) puree. Like, finally. Something to let my brain chew on.

Videogame critique is pretty sad; it's like reading checklist reviews for toasters. It toasts bread, has some features that make it better than last year's toaster, blah blah. A game like this coming out exposes how nascent game criticism is and how limited the framework is for how good one is or isn't.

As for the demo, I found it faintly hilarious that one exists (but if that got some people interested enough to buy it then that's great). Oh you read twenty pages of Ulysses and don't like it? Cool, go read Salvatore or SOIAF or whatnot, there are so many things that are made specifically for people who want that, and it's great that they exist. But taking it to task for not being your mass market genre fiction or movie wannabe is a bit depressing. In no other entertainment medium do we expect every moment of an ambitious work to be completely enjoyable. That the Nier games mostly manage to be, all while showing this density of ideas and a coherent vision - that's amazing to me.



About the names, I would have to look stuff up on the rest of the bosses, but Simone at least was far from arbitrary. It's not necessary to be, but it adds to the encounter if you are familiar with her proto feminist writing.

Spoiler

"One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman."

I wouldn't call that unimportant, especially when you consider that during the fight, you see that

Spoiler

she has actually built herself a metal cage in the form of a skirt and lives buried under it, striving towards some kind of feminine ideal

. It makes the associated side quest kind of chilling in retrospect. So few machines have a visible gender, but

Spoiler

the girl machines after Jean Paul have already started down that path of modifying themselves in various ways, probably trying to get his attention.

. It's part of the common trend of the machines taking all the wrong shit from human culture.

I think Kierkegaard's name is somewhat meaningful when he comes up, if you think about the assertion that trying to understand life rationally is useless. There's also that quote about prayer not influencing god, but changing the person who prays. That echoes with the larger themes of Automata too,

Spoiler

where the 'gods' being venerated are past being of any significance, but it's the act of veneration that has power

.

The other name connections may be totally meaningless for all I know. But at least a couple of them aren't just pointless 'look we existentialist now' namedrops.

Point taken. That quote is damn good.

I'm not saying if you like NGE you'll like Automata.

I think there is clearly a lot of inspiration pulled from it that you can see in all of Taro Yoko's games. Like a lot. And really blatantly. From always having multiple endings, to the Giant Naked Women unleashing the apocalypse, and how he generally likes to start his stories with a straightforward set up only to shift radically in tone towards the end. And it's a more apt comparison thank Dark Souls of all things.

Spoiler

The dev team sings for you at the end. That's pretty cool.

I totally agree with all of that.

I think one of the biggest differences between Evangelion and Automata is that Evangelion explores its themes by exploring its characters, whereas Automata explores its theme more by exploring its world. They share themes, story beats, character types, and even wholesale scenes, but they end up being very different experiences.

 

[Stripper13]

Well. I won't play the full game because I found absolutely nothing to enjoy in the demo. *shrugs*

You're missing out. I had the same thoughts about the demo when I played it - infact, I hated the enemy/character design and had to force myself to finish it.

The full game is incredible though. Easily one of the best and unique experiences I've had with a game.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

The demo is definitely a shitty representation of the full product. The only thing it really paints an accurate picture of is the melee combat.

 

[Hektor]

The first Nier game ended up in the PS3 bargain bins with reviews topping out at "For the price, it's a decent game." then, the fact that my first impression of the sequel was some drummed-up creepy-weirdo controversy, it really sealed my opinion of that entire franchise.

The entire "controversy" was Edens crossing and friends getting angry at a photo shop some guy made for his Twitter

What a silly reason to dismiss a game

 

[Isaac Otherworld]

The entire "controversy" was Edens crossing and friends getting angry at a photo shop some guy made for his Twitter

What a silly reason to dismiss a game

What are you guys talking about?

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

What are you guys talking about?

4chan bamboozled the world with a photoshop purporting that 2B had a fully rendered butthole that pokes out from her leotard.

 

[Effigenius]

I am definitely going to play it. Finishing up Zelda, then I rented yakuza and re7 with my one month free gamefly, then playing Horizon, then Nier. By then it will probably have had a sale too.

 

[Hektor]

What are you guys talking about?

Some guy made a photo shop for his Twitter making it look like 2B has a fully rendered assholes and the usual suspects came out of their woodwork complaining about how dem japanese people are all perverted mysogonists because they didn't checked there sources

That's all the "controversy" there was to it.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

I think this may be by GOTY over even Persona 5.

 

[AkimbO_Arcana]

I watched his video last night and it impressed me (haven't played the game yet). He says that the style of the game didn't resonate with him in the first place so after finishing the Nier video I wanted to check out his channel and was surprised.
The rest of the time he covers trash can garbage games like Mass Effect, Ghost Recon WL and The Division...
Still irritating to me that the esthetic of Nier made such a big impression on him when all he does is being used to junk. Or maybe the channel is "just a job", I don't know.

 

[Splash Wave]

Much like how some people only read for light entertainment and would never get anything out of Pale Fire, I don't expect that Nier or Nier Automata will speak to a huge number of people. But for the few who look to engage with their entertainment in a specific way, and appreciate the internal consistency and how densely it is built, there isn't any other game that compares. These games don't just stand up to examination, they reward it. Going from Horizon (or probably any game) to Automata felt like being given solid food after getting used to (painstakingly prepared and deliciously seasoned) puree. Like, finally. Something to let my brain chew on.

Can you elaborate on this? I picked up on all the philosophical references during my time with game, and while I found the game's exploration of existentialist themes to be pretty well handled, I can't help but stop short at calling any of it brilliant, as so many seem to be doing.

 

[hans_castorp]

4chan bamboozled the world with a photoshop purporting that 2B had a fully rendered butthole that pokes out from her leotard.

Some guy made a photo shop for his Twitter making it look like 2B has a fully rendered assholes and the usual suspects came out of their woodwork complaining about how dem japanese people are all perverted mysogonists because they didn't checked there sources

That's all the "controversy" there was to it.

And don't forget this happened too

 

[Belfast]

Much like how some people only read for light entertainment and would never get anything out of Pale Fire, I don't expect that Nier or Nier Automata will speak to a huge number of people. But for the few who look to engage with their entertainment in a specific way, and appreciate the internal consistency and how densely it is built, there isn't any other game that compares. These games don't just stand up to examination, they reward it. Going from Horizon (or probably any game) to Automata felt like being given solid food after getting used to (painstakingly prepared and deliciously seasoned) puree. Like, finally. Something to let my brain chew on.

Videogame critique is pretty sad; it's like reading checklist reviews for toasters. It toasts bread, has some features that make it better than last year's toaster, blah blah. A game like this coming out exposes how nascent game criticism is and how limited the framework is for how good one is or isn't.

As for the demo, I found it faintly hilarious that one exists (but if that got some people interested enough to buy it then that's great). Oh you read twenty pages of Ulysses and don't like it? Cool, go read Salvatore or SOIAF or whatnot, there are so many things that are made specifically for people who want that, and it's great that they exist. But taking it to task for not being your mass market genre fiction or movie wannabe is a bit depressing. In no other entertainment medium do we expect every moment of an ambitious work to be completely enjoyable. That the Nier games mostly manage to be, all while showing this density of ideas and a coherent vision - that's amazing to me.



About the names, I would have to look stuff up on the rest of the bosses, but Simone at least was far from arbitrary. It's not necessary to be, but it adds to the encounter if you are familiar with her proto feminist writing.

Spoiler

"One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman."

I wouldn't call that unimportant, especially when you consider that during the fight, you see that

Spoiler

she has actually built herself a metal cage in the form of a skirt and lives buried under it, striving towards some kind of feminine ideal

. It makes the associated side quest kind of chilling in retrospect. So few machines have a visible gender, but

Spoiler

the girl machines after Jean Paul have already started down that path of modifying themselves in various ways, probably trying to get his attention.

. It's part of the common trend of the machines taking all the wrong shit from human culture.

I think Kierkegaard's name is somewhat meaningful when he comes up, if you think about the assertion that trying to understand life rationally is useless. There's also that quote about prayer not influencing god, but changing the person who prays. That echoes with the larger themes of Automata too,

Spoiler

where the 'gods' being venerated are past being of any significance, but it's the act of veneration that has power

.

The other name connections may be totally meaningless for all I know. But at least a couple of them aren't just pointless 'look we existentialist now' namedrops.

I've definitely played plenty of games where I really enjoyed the story and presentation, but by and large, it's not even so much that Automata is great (it is) -- rather, it shows how woefully nearly every other game is lacking in this department.

 

[dominuece]

Beat the game (A,B,C,D,E, and a few more) and watched this right after. I agree with everything said. Nier: Automata is a masterpiece. I didn't know anything about Yoko Taro nor his previous works. Hell, I bought the game because I had a little extra money and I'm still in awe of what I experienced.

 

[Fahzgoolin]

I'm having a hard time with this game.

-The combat seems promising and fun at first, but then you quickly realize you need to spam dodge and cheeze stuff. To me it's engaging in a shallow way. It's only as difficult as you make it. If you dodge a lot and use the incredibly easy to execute counter/parry, then the game becomes tremendously easy. The quick responsive combat feels great, but I don't feel threatened by the enemies. =/

-The open world execution isn't great. It's largely empty and boring. Lots of irritating invisible walls. The side quests are pretty boring.

-The story is okay, but not mind blowing- philosophically genius as many claim.

-Visuals are extremely dated and performance is not good (stuttering fps and a lot of glaring pop in with shoddy texture work).

-Aside from the main Yorha androids, the character designs look wack imo.

I say this, but still want to see it through--I'm not finished. I like the sudden variety of gameplay gimmicks (not negative) and the controls are great! I like the character writing. The soundtrack is charming and really stands out. There's some truly thrilling and fun moments, but I find the game either way too easy (on normal) or just silly difficult (on hard) requiring frequent spam dodges. It's just doesn't do a whole lot super well imo, but certainly does a lot of things. I'm glad it exists. I'm just not seeing/feeling the justification for the high praise, although I certainly respect and enjoy it from time to time.


Edit: if anyone responds to this I'll be grateful. I'm kinda distressed I don't like it immediately as much as most on here. =(

 

[Astrael]

I'm having a hard time with this game.

-The combat seems promising and fun at first, but then you quickly realize you need to spam dodge and cheeze stuff. To me it's engaging in a shallow way. It's only as difficult as you make it. If you dodge a lot and use the incredibly easy to execute counter/parry, then the game becomes tremendously easy. The quick responsive combat feels great, but I don't feel threatened by the enemies. =/

-The open world execution isn't great. It's largely empty and boring. Lots of irritating invisible walls. The side quests are pretty boring.

-The story is okay, but not mind blowing- philosophically genius as many claim.

-Visuals are extremely dated and performance is not good (stuttering fps and a lot of glaring pop in with shoddy texture work).

-Aside from the main Yorha androids, the character designs look wack imo.

I say this, but still want to see it through--I'm not finished. I like the sudden variety of gameplay gimmicks (not negative) and the controls are great! I like the character writing. There's some truly thrilling and fun moments, but I find the game either way too easy (on normal) or just silly difficult (on hard) requiring frequent spam dodges. It's just doesn't do a whole lot super well imo, but certainly does a lot of things. I'm glad it exists. I'm just not seeing/feeling the justification for the high praise, although I certainly respect and enjoy it from time to time.


Edit: if anyone responds to this I'll be grateful. I'm kinda distressed I don't like it immediately as much as most on here. =(

As has been said a few times in this thread already, it's just not going to resonate with some people. There's no obligation to love it or even think it's just ok (one of the friends I thought would appreciate this game hates it). For me this is one of the best games I've ever played, FULLY aware and in spite of some broken parts to it. Those criticisms and opinions don't detract from my enjoyment of the game. But, only you know your own tastes, tolerances, and expectations for a game and its flaws. That's just my response to you feeling distressed at not feeling it so far. I wish I could be more specific but I don't want to spoil anything by mistake, or build up any expectations.

That said, if you are still willing, just keep playing. It simply might not be clicking yet. The fact you found some enjoyment in it despite your critiques makes me feel like it'll be worth it for you to keep going.

 

[rochellepaws]

Finished the E route and I have to admit that I felt blown away in a way that I'm not sure a game has made me feel before. It was so powerful, beautiful, touching and inspiring all at the same time with a message that I think anyone can relate to on some degree.

I had never played a Taro game before this and like many others in this thread I had doubts over whether this game was for me or not, both before purchase and during play and without saying too much I now feel like that doubt and reluctance is part of the intended experience and that those who can't persevere don't deserve what awaits.
It's a very special game.

 

[killatopak]

This is a weird game for weird people.

But damn does it deliver for the people intented. It's brain food. If you're into deep thinking then you'll like the premise of the game at the very least.

 

[Monocle]

I'm buying this along with a PS4 the second I find a good bundle on sale.

BTW, thank you for the spoiler, warning, OP.

 

[Fahzgoolin]

As has been said a few times in this thread already, it's just not going to resonate with some people. There's no obligation to love it or even think it's just ok (one of the friends I thought would appreciate this game hates it). For me this is one of the best games I've ever played, FULLY aware and in spite of some broken parts to it. Those criticisms and opinions don't detract from my enjoyment of the game. But, only you know your own tastes, tolerances, and expectations for a game and its flaws. That's just my response to you feeling distressed at not feeling it so far. I wish I could be more specific but I don't want to spoil anything by mistake, or build up any expectations.

That said, if you are still willing, just keep playing. It simply might not be clicking yet. The fact you found some enjoyment in it despite your critiques makes me feel like it'll be worth it for you to keep going.

Thanks for this. It's actually helpful. I do admit that certain technical pitfalls distract me very badly--perhaps in an extreme way compared to others. For example, while I could enjoy Sunset Overdrive on Xbox One, the texture/shadow pop in and frame studder was enough for me to stop playing. My eyes and brain focus on changing images extremely quick and expect to take those images seriously. When that is violated I tend to focus on those things instead of the experience intended by the developer. It's really hard to explain without coming off snobby. =p

I'll try to focus in on what was intended on my next session (or rather--ignore certain negatives), instead of simply taking in visual information. The problem is often when I start to focus on focusing, then the "fun factor" starts to fade--much like learning something you don't enjoy or find interesting.

This is a weird game for weird people.

But damn does it deliver for the people intented. It's brain food. If you're into deep thinking then you'll like the premise of the game at the very least.

The problem for me, is that through the study of neuroscience and consciousness, the premise itself becomes trivial and perhaps even amateur. When you study consciousness as we know it through science, philosophy, and religion, you start to realize the fallacy of even the potential of consciousness in AI systems, since they are pre-determined logic systems written by a conscious viewer. The fact that AI is pre-scripted and following patterns/decisions set by a conscious intelligence, then the idea of that AI having true self awareness and/or "consciousness" becomes contradictory. If you were to make that argument that AI could have self aware consciousness, then you have to make the leap that humans are just "beast machines", or robots, following the pre-deterimined path of the physics and natural laws of chemicals and particles that make up their being and therefore have no agency over anything in their own lives (extreme naturalism). It makes morality completely meaningless and subjective, which destroys the purpose of morality in the first place and would make us collectively arguing about what is "wrong" or "right" completely meaningless--which leads to classic nihilism.

I'm not all knowing on this subject and it's caused me to dig deeper into the history/science/philosophy of "consciousness", but the sci-fi trope of today in giving AI a "consciousness", sensory emotional connections, and/or true "self awareness" feels tired and unconvincing with what we know today. You have to make a lot of leaps in logic and suspend a lot of disbelief to even buy into a premise in which these kinds of stories are trying to convince you of.

To me it's like observing the fact that pigs can't fly, but hearing a fictional story about pigs flying and then coming back and interpreting reality that pigs could potentially fly.

Sorry if these thoughts are messy, but I hope someone here understands what I'm getting at...not trying to be pretentious or arrogant.

 

[CorgiSmiles]

Thanks for this. It's actually helpful. I do admit that certain technical pitfalls distract me very badly--perhaps in an extreme way compared to others. For example, while I could enjoy Sunset Overdrive on Xbox One, the texture/shadow pop in and frame studder was enough for me to stop playing. My eyes and brain focus on changing images extremely quick and expect to take those images seriously. When that is violated I tend to focus on those things instead of the experience intended by the developer. It's really hard to explain without coming off snobby. =p

I'll try to focus in on what was intended on my next session (or rather--ignore certain negatives), instead of simply taking in visual information. The problem is often when I start to focus on focusing, then the "fun factor" starts to fade--much like learning something you don't enjoy or find interesting.


The problem for me, is that through the study of neuroscience and consciousness, the premise itself becomes trivial and perhaps even amateur. When you study consciousness as we know it through science, philosophy, and religion, you start to realize the fallacy of even the potential of consciousness in AI systems, since they are pre-determined logic systems written by a conscious viewer. The fact that AI is pre-scripted and following patterns/decisions set by a conscious intelligence, then the idea of that AI having true self awareness and/or "consciousness" becomes contradictory. If you were to make that argument that AI could have self aware consciousness, then you have to make the leap that humans are just "beast machines", or robots, following the pre-deterimined path of the physics and natural laws of chemicals and particles that make up their being and therefore have no agency over anything in their own lives (extreme naturalism). It makes morality completely meaningless and subjective, which destroys the purpose of morality in the first place and would make us collectively arguing about what is "wrong" or "right" completely meaningless--which leads to classic nihilism.

I'm not all knowing on this subject and it's caused me to dig deeper into the history/science/philosophy of "consciousness", but the sci-fi trope of today in giving AI a "consciousness", sensory emotional connections, and/or true "self awareness" feels tired and unconvincing with what we know today. You have to make a lot of leaps in logic and suspend a lot of disbelief to even buy into a premise in which these kinds of stories are trying to convince you of.

To me it's like observing the fact that pigs can't fly, but hearing a fictional story about pigs flying and then coming back and interpreting reality that pigs could potentially fly.

Sorry if these thoughts are messy, but I hope someone here understands what I'm getting at...not trying to be pretentious or arrogant.

My question here is. How far are you? Route A?

The thing is. What themes here, while are familiar, end up getting subverted and presented in it's own manner that it is fresh. There's a reason why there's really good indepth discussion going on over in the spoiler topic.

 

[Fahzgoolin]

My question here is. How far are you? Route A?

The thing is. What themes here, while are familiar, end up getting subverted and presented in it's own manner that it is fresh. There's a reason why there's really good indepth discussion going on over in the spoiler topic.

Yeah route A. Perhaps I'm being overly zealous in my assumptions of the story, so I'll keep playing and then dive into that thread. I'm coming into the experience with a certain "knowledge set" that seems to tear apart the very premise it's setting up.

Gah...I think too much. I just need to learn to shut up and watch/play before getting bent out of shape mentally regarding this game lol

 

[Antiwhippy]

Yeah just play the game lol.

I'll just say this, to me the story is less about how these machines and androids gain self awareness and more about WHY they desire to move towards us.

 

[OniBaka]

Yeah route A. Perhaps I'm being overly zealous in my assumptions of the story, so I'll keep playing and then dive into that thread. I'm coming into the experience with a certain "knowledge set" that seems to tear apart the very premise it's setting up.

Gah...I think too much. I just need to learn to shut up and watch/play before getting bent out of shape mentally regarding this game lol

I mean it was in the OT title, just don't expect much from the game.

 

[Fahzgoolin]

Yeah just play the game lol.

I'll just say this, to me the story is less about how these machines and androids gain self awareness and more about WHY they desire to move towards us.

Thanks =) I'm looking forward to it. Now I have a driving motivation instead of merely just gameplay interaction.

I mean it was in the OT title, just don't expect much from the game.

LOL so basically "Neon Genesis Evangelion--the game."

 

[OniBaka]

I haven't seen that but plan on watching that very soon.

 

[Fahzgoolin]

I haven't seen that but plan on watching that very soon.

Yeah, your comment just reminded me of what the anime creator said about it (my paraphrase from various interviews): "the story is just an expression of my own depression and thoughts at the time with symbolism and imagery I just thought looked cool. It's meaningless."

 

[mcz117chief]

I really REALLY like NieR, enjoyed Drakengard 3 a lot too but Automata just feels so boring. I really can't get into it in the least, the characters are flat as a board and the story keeps going in a circle. I might pick it up again in a few months and finish the game but I am unimpressed so far. A few decent parts here and there but mostly it's meh.

 

[Arklite]

I love the game, A LOT, but this video just comes across as incredibly hyperbolic without much analysis honestly.

Also starts off a badly by complaining about reviews.

Feel the same, it starts to go off on a bit of fan ranting at times. Like the whole section about the game's music mixing. True enough the OST is fantastic, but the mixing is something Platinum has done often, most notably in MGR. Anyways, I'm not complaining. Seeing people gush to others about Automata is only positive.

 

[Zakalwe]

The first Nier game ended up in the PS3 bargain bins with reviews topping out at "For the price, it's a decent game." then, the fact that my first impression of the sequel was some drummed-up creepy-weirdo controversy, it really sealed my opinion of that entire franchise.

The first piece of media i ever saw about this game was an article saying that people were angry about the main female character either having or not having a butthole. I will never play this game for that reason.

This is an incredibly stupid reason to not play a game. I guess you're probably trolling, though.

 

[killatopak]

Feel the same, it starts to go off on a bit of fan ranting at times. Like the whole section about the game's music mixing. True enough the OST is fantastic, but the mixing is something Platinum has done often, most notably in MGR. Anyways, I'm not complaining. Seeing people gush to others about Automata is only positive.

Most tracks have 4 versions. That is unprecendented. The game has 4 cds for the official ost and even then some of are missing.

 

[toastyToast]

I watched a majority of the video and its mostly the dude waxing lyrical instead of any kind of analysis. I know it's a review but you have to do more than say how great a game is if you're gonna do it for half an hour.

I say this having completed and enjoyed the game.

 

[Arklite]

Most tracks have 4 versions. That is unprecendented. The game has 4 cds for the official ost and even then some of are missing.

Yeah, most MGR tracks have 3 versions. His note of how Automata handles the rise and fall of the tracks in appropriate and thoughtful fashion is on full display in MGR. Automata impresses further with 8-bit remixes. Still, like other parts of the review, he dwells and rants on it too long.

 

[Kazuhira]

He is such a weirdo,

Spoiler

i love him.

 

[killatopak]

Yeah, most MGR tracks have 3 versions. His note of how Automata handles the rise and fall of the tracks in appropriate and thoughtful fashion is on full display in MGR. Automata impresses further with 8-bit remixes. Still, like other parts of the review, he dwells and rants on it too long.

It's a bit exaggerated to be honest though I could see his points. I just think he opened up the video badly by criticizing other reviewers. I could also see his point there but it's just a bad way of introducing the game.

 

[Jasong7777]

Game is great, but it's no masterpiece.

 

[OG Kush]

I watched the first 5 minutes and all he kept talking about is how much he loves this game but didnt mention why at all. Literally just 5 minutes of him creaming his pants. Stopped watching. Cut to the chase mate.