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[hemtae]

I used to hear similar arguments about Oblivion and about Morrowind before, but i wonder where are these amazing mods turning these games in awesome RPGs, because I have yet to see a single mod addressing any of the major glaring flaws in those Bethesda games.
Adding a lot of accessory junk isn't going to change how core mechanics in these games are simply broken or in same cases even non-existing.

Now, if you want an amazing mod you should give a try to Ultima V Lazarus. It takes a complete piece of garbage of a game (Dungeon Siege, a 2 GB screensaver that plays by itself) and it turns it in an amazing remake of a classic RPG. That's a mod that *actually* improves a game as RPG.

In the case of Oblivion, OOO (and maybe FCOM but my install blew up when I tried to install that) legitimately improved the RPG aspects of the game. Dungeons were made better with hand placed loot and exploration was better since everything wasn't always at the same level with you.

 

[Atraveller]

I'm interested to see where The Witcher 2 and Dragon Age 2 fall in their list, considering the hilarious reviews of each game they have.

Witcher 2 is at 30, and DA2 is not in the list.

 

[Scrabble]

Wait, wait, wait. Okay i can kind of understand how New Vegas might not of appealed to some fans, but I have heard this complaint over and over. So please tell me in what way was Fallout 3 brown drab and ugly looking wasteland better looking then New Vegas' brown drab and ugly looking wasteland?

This is far more striking and interesting

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs43/f/2009/130/b/4/Fallout_3___Liberty_Memorial_by_Half_dude.jpg

http://cdn.dualshockers.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/fallout3_stopsign.jpg

http://0.tqn.com/d/compactiongames/1/0/4/L/1/screen45B.jpg

than this

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110628165841/fallout/images/5/5f/Mojave_Drive_in.jpg

http://mashthosebuttons.com/gallery/fallout-new-vegas/fnv_goodsprings.jpg

http://www.gamefront.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/FalloutNV10.jpg

And for a game called New Vegas they somehow managed to make the actual Vegas strip really small and disappointing to be in. I'm pretty sure Vegas is bigger than three small areas and about three casinos, that only have blackjack and roulette.

 

[† Tenshi †]

Being a PC gamer must suck if Skyrim is #1 lol.

Spoiler

... don't kill me, I have 40+ Steam games!!

 

[leng jai]

Maybe with about 50 mods it might be in contention.

The art and soundtrack were the only thing that would be up to standard from vanilla.

 

[thelatestmodel]

PC Gamer should be ashamed of themselves. Wasn't even the best game of the year it came out.

 

[Sola Scriptura]

Meh. They're entitled to their opinions, but how they reached a consensus that Skyrim is the best of all time is beyond me.

 

[hemtae]

This is far more striking and interesting

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs43/f/2009/130/b/4/Fallout_3___Liberty_Memorial_by_Half_dude.jpg

http://cdn.dualshockers.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/fallout3_stopsign.jpg

http://0.tqn.com/d/compactiongames/1/0/4/L/1/screen45B.jpg

than this

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110628165841/fallout/images/5/5f/Mojave_Drive_in.jpg

http://mashthosebuttons.com/gallery/fallout-new-vegas/fnv_goodsprings.jpg

http://www.gamefront.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/FalloutNV10.jpg

And for a game called New Vegas they somehow managed to make the actual Vegas strip really small and disappointing to be in. I'm pretty sure Vegas is bigger than three small areas and about three casinos, that only have blackjack and roulette.

Eh, the last two shots of Fallout 3 looked more boring than Goodsprings and Fallout 3 had plenty of empty desert-like wasteland.

As for the emptiness of the Strip, supposedly that's a side effect of getting it to run on consoles and a short development time. There are mods that open it up a bit more.

 

[zkylon]

This is far more striking and interesting

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs43/f/2009/130/b/4/Fallout_3___Liberty_Memorial_by_Half_dude.jpg

http://cdn.dualshockers.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/fallout3_stopsign.jpg

http://0.tqn.com/d/compactiongames/1/0/4/L/1/screen45B.jpg

than this

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110628165841/fallout/images/5/5f/Mojave_Drive_in.jpg

http://mashthosebuttons.com/gallery/fallout-new-vegas/fnv_goodsprings.jpg

http://www.gamefront.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/FalloutNV10.jpg

And for a game called New Vegas they somehow managed to make the actual Vegas strip really small and disappointing to be in. I'm pretty sure Vegas is bigger than three small areas and about three casinos, that only have blackjack and roulette.

kinda deceptive of you to just grab some random desert shots and not show new vegas and freeside (freeside is specially great at night) when a great part of the game revolves around it. tho it's undeniable actual vegas was underwhelming at best. mods fix that a lot, though. and they really do fix it since it's chockful of content already so they only had to add a couple background casinos and melt the two areas together and voila!

it's like me just picking three subway pics from fo3

be fair

Being a PC gamer must suck if Skyrim is #1 lol.

Spoiler

... don't kill me, I have 40+ Steam games!!

a mere 40? you heathen!

 

[Scrabble]

tbh I found mods made fo3 tolerable and kind of fun, as long as I skipped all the dialogue and didn't think too much

all can't be fixed but at least you can walk around the pretty scenery and kill stuff until you have enough


my bad, with important I meant "great achievement in rpg design", which defines perfectly planescape, diablo 2, baldur's gate, fallout, arcanum, bloodlines, etc.

So "great achievement in rpg design" is only defined by what those games did? Because obviously a shit ton of people enjoy bethesda's open world go anywhere do anything design they have, but I'm sure you just think they're objectively wrong because "hey these are the games I enjoy and I don't enjoy Skyrim so blah."

 

[-tetsuo-]

I've just never read a good opinion on why Skyrim is "amazing" or why its flaws should be excused. For nearly 2 years now it's always been incredibly vague statements of "immersion" or "lots of content" and the like; or a begrudging acknowledgment of some serious undeniable flaws in the design but a plea to ignore them... out of charity, I suppose; or some flailing "yeah well fuck the haters i had fun, you only criticize it because it's popular/you're too nostalgic" rant. The most specific defense I've ever read on here was some bizarre earnest attempt at roleplaying that sounded more like the guy was using rather standard RPG mechanics to play virtual dollhouse to no real end or purpose.

I would ask everyone what the hell was so good about the game in the OT. I was trying so hard to like it. Most everyone would either a) say the immersion thing or b) say that the bad combat/quest/characters/dialogue/dungeons/loot didn't bother them that much. IT is crazy to me.

My opinion is that many of those CRPGs feel incredibly dated and aren't the shining beacon that all modern rpgs should ascribe or be compared to. Though I'm assuming your just going to tell me I'm objectively wrong because of "reasons why I enjoy rpg's are different than why you enjoy rpg's so your wrong and dumb." So I'm not even going to have this conversation.

So you don't like anything that makes a good RPG in your RPG's is what you are telling us?

 

[NewGame]

Oh how low will their standards go?

 

[Almighty]

This is far more striking and interesting

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs43/f/2009/130/b/4/Fallout_3___Liberty_Memorial_by_Half_dude.jpg

http://cdn.dualshockers.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/fallout3_stopsign.jpg

http://0.tqn.com/d/compactiongames/1/0/4/L/1/screen45B.jpg

than this

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110628165841/fallout/images/5/5f/Mojave_Drive_in.jpg

http://mashthosebuttons.com/gallery/fallout-new-vegas/fnv_goodsprings.jpg

http://www.gamefront.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/FalloutNV10.jpg

And for a game called New Vegas they somehow managed to make the actual Vegas strip really small and disappointing to be in. I'm pretty sure Vegas is bigger than three small areas and about three casinos, that only have blackjack and roulette.

Well I can see you point now and I guess I can understand it. Though I think you could of picked much better pics for Fallout NV.

I personally enjoyed the whole post apocalyptic cowboy wasteland vibe I got in New Vegas.

As for Vegas that is a problem with all Bethesda games. I mean Morrowind has it, Oblivion has it, Fallout 3 has it, and Skyrim has it. The Imperial City in Oblivion was the first time I noticed the flaw in their games though. All I could think every time i saw it was the capitol of this continent spanning empire is a few small city sections and maybe 50 people in it. Really?

 

[N2NOther]

And for a game called New Vegas they somehow managed to make the actual Vegas strip really small and disappointing to be in. I'm pretty sure Vegas is bigger than three small areas and about three casinos, that only have blackjack and roulette.

Not after a nuclear bomb it's not.

 

[we.are.the.armada]

Fallout 3 and NV is better than Skyrim and its DLC by a long mile!

 

[Drake]

Skyrim was one of those games where I thought it was one of the best games ever when I was playing it, but after having time to reflect I have changed my opinion somewhat. It still a great game and a fascinating world to explore, but the combat is pretty bad and the repetitive look of the dungeons can be tiresome. Bethesda should really look into revamping the entire combat system in the next Elder Scrolls. It's one of the reasons I keep going back to play the Witcher 2. The combat is amazing(there is more, but I won't get into that now).

 

[Scrabble]

I'm pretty sure it was based on the old Vegas strip. It was still small, but at least it wasn't like the copy pasted samey shit found in FO3. I'd rather have a handful of unique casinos than 20 dull and boring ones that are all the same.

The Strip was planned to be more open and bigger, but thank the consoles and the shitty Bethesda gamebryo engine for that.

And nice cherry picking by the way. What's up with the billboard? Why not post HELIOS One, Repcon station, Lucky 38, or some shit. That said I still think the wild west saloon is way cooler than all those buildings you can't do anything with.

So faults with New Vegas somehow get pinned right back at Bethesda? Okay I give up, Obsidian and New Vegas are perfect and everything they do is absolutely brilliant, and in the case they somehow manage to mess up "well it's not their fault, it's someone else." And truth be told I don't care whose fault it is, all I care about is how the game turns up.

And I wasn't cherry picking, but here you go

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110202065856/fallout/images/7/73/HELIOS_One.jpg

http://img.bhs4.com/F3/F/F3F2D093DF34576F89667D7D2999025751037585_large.jpg

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121104181454/fallout/images/6/67/Lucky_38_vista_at_night.jpg

Still awfully bland and uninspired compared to the DC wasteland.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

The DC wasteland was the most boring and lame environment. I simply do not understand what people see in it.

 

[Mutagenic]

I love NV talk. Such a good game.

 

[N2NOther]

I've just never read a good opinion on why Skyrim is "amazing" or why its flaws should be excused. For nearly 2 years now it's always been incredibly vague statements of "immersion" or "lots of content" and the like; or a begrudging acknowledgment of some serious undeniable flaws in the design but a plea to ignore them... out of charity, I suppose; or some flailing "yeah well fuck the haters i had fun, you only criticize it because it's popular/you're too nostalgic" rant. The most specific defense I've ever read on here was some bizarre earnest attempt at roleplaying that sounded more like the guy was using rather standard RPG mechanics to play virtual dollhouse to no real end or purpose.

Does it matter though? To what end? I loved the shit out of Skyrim because it fed into tons of things I liked. A vast open world, tons to see and do, fucking random ass Dragon attacks, my love of exploration and filling in a map, doing quests, getting XP, stealth killing so many things.

One time I was going to get a quest from a Yarl and a dragon attacked. After the fight I found the Yarl, dead on the ground. I couldn't do that quest or any other associated quest. All because of a fucking random ass dragon attack. THAT'S why I think Skyrim is amazing and why its flaws can be excused.

Does it matter now? Does it change anything?

 

[zkylon]

So "great achievement in rpg design" is only defined by what those games did? Because obviously a shit ton of people enjoy bethesda's open world go anywhere do anything design they have, but I'm sure you just think they're objectively wrong because "hey these are the games I enjoy and I don't enjoy Skyrim so blah."

those games also have the go anywhere do anything design, just not in 3d and realtime because they're 15 years old games. even better, in fallout you can kill 99% of the characters in the game, you'll actually get different endings, you can lower your intelligence and have tons of new dialogue based on that, and play it over and over again and see how you can go through situations with completely different skillsets or character parties. there's stealth, pacifist (both through dialogue and other gameplay mechanics like stealing, stealth, nonlethal attacks, and special case stuff) and violent solutions to most situations, you can go solo or in a big party, etc.

and those games have actual character systems (not just health, mana, stamina + weird ass perk system) and tactical combat with multiple characters.

sure, not everything was great and polished but it's not like bethesda focus tests their games like valve or anything

The DC wasteland was the most boring and lame environment. I simply do not understand what people see in it.

I understand some degree of "apocaliptic beauty" to it because there is, specially if you mod some weather mods to take out the green vomit filter. I have really good memories of the small department store you run into early on in the game, for instance, it just looks really like a haunted 50s post-apocaliptic world.

the ant city I liked too

the thing I never get is how you can think it's that much better than new vegas, specially since actual dc was hell for me, just a maze of ruins and subway stations that just looked so out of context and unlike fallout at all, like the bombs had fallen last week.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Does it matter though? To what end? I loved the shit out of Skyrim because it fed into tons of thing I liked. A vast open world, tons to see and do, fuckimg random ass Dragon attacks, my love of exploration and filling in a map, doing quests, getting XP, stealth killing so many things.

One time I was going to get a quest from a Yarl and a dragon attacked. After the fight I found the Yarl, dead on the ground. I couldn't do that quest or any other associated quest. All because of a fucking random dragon attack. THAT'S why I think Skyrim is amazing and why its flaws can be excused.

Does it matter now? Does it change anything?

You just described something that nearly the entire genre, and even Bethesda's other game, all do even better.

 

[N2NOther]

You just described something that nearly the entire genre, and even Bethesda's other game, all do even better.

Random ass dragon attacks? Point me in that direction. But since I love that game, please name some games that do it better so I can play them too.

Keep in mind, I'm a console gamer.

And regardless, it doesn't make my experience with Skyrim any less amazing. All 255 hours of it b

 

[SneakyStephan]

Awful gameplay, awful animations, one of the buggiest games of late.
Gaemz junnalism.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Random ass dragon attacks? Point me in that direction. But since I love that game, please name some games that do it better so I can play them too.

Keep in mind, I'm a console gamer.

And regardless, it doesn't make my experience with Skyrim any less amazing. All 255 hours of it b

Well, since dragon attacks become terribly boring in Skyrim super fast, then even Oblivion, Morrowind, Fallout 3, and New Vegas do the "lose sidequests because someone was killed while you were away" thing even better, because a shit-ton of Skyrim NPCs are immortal and don't allow you to fail quests.

 

[-tetsuo-]

Keep in mind, I'm a console gamer.

We have discovered the problem.

 

[jtb]

as far as open world Bethesda bugfests go, NV > anything post Morrowind.

and even then, I wouldn't put any of them as the greatest game of anything.

 

[zkylon]

We have discovered the problem.

that's a dumb thing of you to say



unless you're joking

which in my experience they never are

 

[NotoriousPUG]

Not after a nuclear bomb it's not.

If I remember correctly, Vegas was protected from the bomb. I didn't play New Vegas all that much though, so I could be wrong.

 

[Cheese Raptor]

Skyrims amazing.


Does it deserve that spot? Who knows?


Modded Skyrim on PC is freaking glorious though. No doubt about it.

It doesn't, plain and simple. The Radiant AI that was supposed to be so awe inspiring was a joke. "I'll randomly go to sleep fully clothed, no big deal." The extreme lack of variety was a huge letdown. In Morrowind you had distinct areas, even not all the guards were human and each city had different armor. Then there's the random LOL moments like a dude falling from the sky and guy in his underwear chilling in a river. The fact that you had much more freedom in Morrowind was awesome. No " you need a key to open this lock." When your skill is maxed out. Plus you could use levitate or a high acrobatics skill to navigate tall obstacles. Skyrim's infamous idiot AI isn't exactly a step up from Morrowind. Gets shot in head with arrow......"Must be my imagination." Seriously?? What a shallow stealth mechanic.

 

[Scrabble]

We have discovered the problem.

ughhhhh

 

[jtb]

If I remember correctly, Vegas was protected from the bomb. I didn't play New Vegas all that much though, so I could be wrong.

you are correct. the real culprit is consoles.

still, while the strip is incredibly limited—the casinos are pretty large (if all separated by loading screens) and the world is comparable in size to DC wasteland. I didn't have a problem with the scope.

 

[zkylon]

If I remember correctly, Vegas was protected from the bomb. I didn't play New Vegas all that much though, so I could be wrong.

yeah, nuclear bombs didn't fall directly in las vegas.

 

[-tetsuo-]

that's a dumb thing to say of you



unless you're joking

which in my experience they never are

Consolez are ghey

Spoiler

I meant it in that he is in the PC Gamer best game of all time thread

you are correct. the real culprit is consoles.

We have discovered the problem.

 

[DarknessTear]

Skyrim is godlike but it doesn't deserve #1 for PC because it doesn't even utilize the platform properly.

Seriously, I loved Skyrim.. even the TERRIBLE PS3 version. It's that good of a game.

 

[NotoriousPUG]

Does it matter though? To what end? I loved the shit out of Skyrim because it fed into tons of things I liked. A vast open world, tons to see and do, fucking random ass Dragon attacks, my love of exploration and filling in a map, doing quests, getting XP, stealth killing so many things.

One time I was going to get a quest from a Yarl and a dragon attacked. After the fight I found the Yarl, dead on the ground. I couldn't do that quest or any other associated quest. All because of a fucking random ass dragon attack. THAT'S why I think Skyrim is amazing and why its flaws can be excused.

Does it matter now? Does it change anything?

A Jarl was killed and you couldn't finish quests? I feel like I'm learning new stuff about all sorts of games here because I remembered Jarl's being invincible, and even if they aren't, don't they get replaced by random NPC's so that it's impossible to fail or miss a quest?

 

[Scrabble]

If I remember correctly, Vegas was protected from the bomb. I didn't play New Vegas all that much though, so I could be wrong.

Mr House says something like 80% of the bombs were destroyed, but the better question is, why set your game in vegas if your not going to take advantage of it. Either make Vegas an expansive destroyed wasteland like DC downtown, or make it an active city that actually recreates vegas today. Vegas being just three small sections and a couple of casinos was such a huge disappointment.

 

[zkylon]

Consolez are ghey

Spoiler

I meant it in that he is in the PC Gamer best game of all time thread

didn't come off like that at all

good on you for not being an asshole, though

 

[Smushroomed]

Skyrim has terrible combat

 

[-tetsuo-]

didn't come off like that at all

good on you for not being an asshole, though

I am most certainly an asshole, sir.


*ACTIVATE DERRICK TRANSFORMATION*

 

[PFD]

http://www.bethblog.com/2013/07/23/pc-gamers-top-100/



I am disgusted.

The Citizen Kane of PC gaming.

 

[FACE]

The DC wasteland was the most boring and lame environment. I simply do not understand what people see in it.

Green, lots and lots of green.

 

[Loris146]

Skyrim is a good game... with 200 mods

Fixed.

 

[zkylon]

Mr House says something like 80% of the bombs were destroyed, but the better question is, why set your game in vegas if your not going to take advantage of it. Either make Vegas an expansive destroyed wasteland like DC downtown, or make it an active city that actually recreates vegas today. Vegas being just three small sections and a couple of casinos was such a huge disappointment.

while it's no excuse for the shitty state vanilla new vegas was left in, context matters. it's a game made in a year and a half, and gamebryo and consoles were a big wall they ran into, unfortunately. and like other people said, it's a problem you can see in oblivion, fallout 3 and skyrim as well

the restoration mod fixs it for the most part, and even if it's not a sprawling strip like one'd wish, there's still A LOT of content, many casinos and locales to see (ncr embassy, neon sign maker place, vault 21, the three main casinos, the lucky 38 and then there's freeside) and a shit ton of great quests and characters in there. and the casinos themselves are pretty big, if a bit empty, though that's improved by mods as well.

 

[DPJ]

Seems appropriate that a pretty game with shitty gameplay is the top pick for PC gamers.

 

[FACE]

while it's no excuse for the shitty state vanilla new vegas was left in, context matters. it's a game made in a year and a half, and gamebryo and consoles were a big wall they ran into, unfortunately. and like other people said, it's a problem you can see in oblivion, fallout 3 and skyrim as well

the restoration mod fixs it for the most part, and even if it's not a sprawling strip like one'd wish, there's still A LOT of content, many casinos and locales to see (ncr embassy, neon sign maker place, vault 21, the three main casinos, the lucky 38 and then there's freeside) and a shit ton of great quests and characters in there. and the casinos themselves are pretty big, if a bit empty, though that's improved by mods as well.

Vanilla New Vegas still has a lot more content than FO3:

 

[hemtae]

Well, since dragon attacks become terribly boring in Skyrim super fast, then even Oblivion, Morrowind, Fallout 3, and New Vegas do the "lose sidequests because someone was killed while you were away" thing even better, because a shit-ton of Skyrim NPCs are immortal and don't allow you to fail quests.

It felt like just as many people were marked essential in Oblivion as Skyrim

 

[Almighty]

Well, since dragon attacks become terribly boring in Skyrim super fast, then even Oblivion, Morrowind, Fallout 3, and New Vegas do the "lose sidequests because someone was killed while you were away" thing even better, because a shit-ton of Skyrim NPCs are immortal and don't allow you to fail quests.

There being no immortal NPC in New Vegas(at least the base game. Haven't played around with the expansions) besides children is huge points in my book. Being able to slaughter everyone was nice when I was bored. Tired that in Skyrim and there was always two or three immortals that just wouldn't die and kept coming for me. All I can say is if Obsidian can manage to do that then Bethesda has no excuse. Immortal NPC always seemed lazy and hand holdy on Bethesda part.

 

[Atraveller]

Seems appropriate that a pretty game with shitty gameplay is the top pick for PC gamers.

Oh no you didn't!

 

[FACE]

Oh no you didn't!

Posts like that are best left ignored.