Foliorum Viridum
Banned
I get good FPS with everything maxed so I'm not too bothered about this, but it's pretty awesome. If it didn't screw up some aspects I'd use it anyway.
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Skyrim mod improves perfomance up to 40% - Modders do what Bethesdon't. :/
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PinkCrayon
Member
Maybe if they bothered to play test their game for more than 5 minutes, they wouldn't get shit on. The mod has nothing to do with peoples anger with Bethesda.
Yes, these are valid constraints, but I still think that game development in general could benefit from a closer look at modern software engineering theory. About your point regarding academia, I have pretty close knowledge of exactly how hard it is to try and get any game dev involved in a research project, even just as a minor partner. They feel like even small involvement is a waste of their time, regardless of what is being investigated.
Right now? They should've been years ago.
AcceptableGhost
Member
Bbbbbbbut they don't have enough money and or resources - oh wait.
I expressed my extreme disappointment with the optimization situation earlier in the thread, but I think it's wrong to blame Bethesda's programmers in general too much for it. The are given a set of deadlines and priorities and have to do their best within that framework. I have to assume PC performance was close to the bottom of that list.
If this was a one time thing and all other Bethesda games weren't buggy as shit like this I'd say you have a point.
But their programmers are beyond terrible. They need new ones. I don't care about whatever deadlines they were under. When every game you release is a terribly buggy mess you need to reevaluate who you have programming your games.
The game has been in the hands of millions for over a month now. It doesn't surprise me that out of these millions of people, there's a few people that manage to find a way to improve on the game that Bethesda didn't think of.
Bethesda also set the 11/11/11 date pretty early on, didn't they?
This mod definitely effects the scripting. When I delete it, the scripting the Ralof/Imperial captain works perfectly. When I reinstall it, that encounter does not work (unless you jump start it by attacking the captain, and even then the captain and her sidekick just stand there.)
1.3 might have messed up scripting as well, but this mod definitely messes it up too.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Or... when every game you release is extremely complex, with a huge open world, thousands of NPCs, dozens of quests, and thousands of items, all with total freedom given to the player to play the game any way he or she chooses... there will be problems.
Find me a game with the ambition and freedom of TES that isn't buggy. Hell find me a game with the ambition and freedom of TES.
No, see, it has to be that Betheseda is just lazy and dumb.
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
I would agree, if publications weren't falling over themselves to toss Bethesda GOTY awards and pronounce it the best invention since sex. The state of this industry is pretty embarrassing sometimes.
Stalker series, Gothic series (not including Gothic 4). But they also launch with extreme technical flaws that are eventually fixed by the community.
Divinity 2 is pretty massive but also had major technical problems at launch. Two Worlds, again same story.
It always kind of irks me when people say Bethesda is the only one making games like this.
Which is fine, and not something I can really argue against. I just see a measurable benefit in waiting for a lower price and a more complete product. In a year we'll have a GOTY edition with even further refinements. But you'll get your money's worth regardless, no doubt. Except on PS3 I guess.
CecilRousso
Member
We sure have a lot of developers in this thread, considering so many seem to know what it´s like to develop a game like Skyrim. Good to know. 
Atricous? What's your computer's specs?
Atricous? What's your computer's specs?
walking fiend
Member
World of Warcraft? Final Fantasy series? Comparing performance of developers much smaller than them is not quite fair.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Interesting.....nothing yet and I already beat the game and have done like 3 quests with this. Nothing yet. If something does happen, I will look into it.
Most problems aren't in the programming but issues with scripts, triggers and AI packages.
I have already answered this question in this very thread. I mean my PC should run it at 60 fps without drops to 20s.
CecilRousso
Member
Blizzard tracking 180,000 bugs in World of Warcraft
http://www.destructoid.com/blizzard-tracking-180-000-bugs-in-world-of-warcraft-149078.phtml
Pagusas
Elden Member
WoW launched with SERIOUS flaws, that were eventually fixed over years. Final Fantasy games are linear and much easier to Q&A, its not fair to compare.
To say something like that I expect you to have some pretty hefty weight behind you. So if you have time it would be interesting to hear what the specifics behind Bethesdas programming errors and skills are in context to the project managing logistics.
As you, I think we all are tired of kids everywhere trying to talk about stuff they do nothing about. I'm a program engineer myself, but in a completely different field, I'm not even working directly with hands-on programming (just coordinating it), so I'm informed enough to know what is going on here in general.
So it would be interesting to hear from a gaming programming professional in the gaming industry as yourself about the technical babble behind all of it. Of course not this error in particular, because we all know it takes a bigger context to brand each and every member of an entire team of programmers as terrible.., but about the whole history and context behind it. Let's hear it.
walking fiend
Member
Bethesda bugs, unfortunately, are quite major and the patching process is done very slowly. One of the things Blizzard is famous for, is patching their games continuously and in a timely fashion (which not only are for fixing bugs, but keeping the games balanced considering their usually competitive nature)
At least FFX and XII, which I have played, are not linear at all.
I haven't heard Xenoblade having major flaws either.
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GTA, although not with that much NPC interaction, is quite open world and usually is programmed quite well (on consoles at least)
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
That's the thing there. And I know Durante pointed out the truth in this and I agree with it but damn, it still stings and is inexcusable to me. BF3, I can't say more but that game is coded properly. At least compared to this.
I'd be proud as hell. It's one of if not THE most amazing game of all time for many. That's with zero mods. Yes it has flaws and even some serious ones on PS3 but f all to those who say Bethesda programmers are lazy or shit. Games have budgets and deadlines which means busting their asses to produce the breadth of content available and the open world nature makes it a nightmare to debug. So what if a modder found an optimization after a month. That doesn't mean the programmers weren't busting their asses fixing 10000x other shit before release.
FFX.. Not linear? In what world?
walking fiend
Member
If by linear, you mean that there isn't a huge ass continuous open world, then you are correct, but beside that, the game is not linear at all.
During the end game it opens up, but until then it's almost literally a sequence of connect the dots.
they had AMD (and I think Nvidia) engineers working with them ON SITE.
edit: it's a major release though which moved shitload of videocards.
Yea it is dude. Its pretty much running down corridors most of the game, except they disguise it well.
I imagine some of it is down to the engine not using more than 2 cores, in addition to the optimization thing. There is probably a reason behind that too, considering Fallout 3 had extreme crashing when using more than 2 cores.
diffusionx
Gold Member
I've "only" dropped about 40 hours into Skyrim but I really have encountered none of these issues. This is on 360. To me, the game is utterly, jaw-droppingly amazing. The one issue I ran into was seeing a dead dragon drop in front of me once in a while. If I worked for Betheseda I would be hella proud of the game I put on the store shelf.
I love FFXII. I think it's one of the best games of all time. But in terms of ambition and scale, it's nowhere near Skyrim. And even FFXII was a game that spent years in development hell, gave the director a mental breakdown halfway through, etc.
fierrotlepou
Member
I'd rather not!
sixteen-bit
Member
Mod community stay godlike.
walking fiend
Member
Well, first of all the game doesn't get suddenly buggy after you finish it.
Also, after you have access to the ship, the game gets theoretically non-linear. And by the point you reach monster arena, you can actually enjoy the full non-linear game and spend lots of time without advancing the plot.
That doesn't really matter, that's not the point actually. The point is it technically is non-linear, even if the plot has to be advanced linearly.
I am open to the correction that Skyrim (TES games in general) are buggy becaues of the open world design. However, FFXII is quite quest dependent as well and very big in scope, and games with open world design like GTA aren't badly programmed either.
Well, I have PC version. The problem is, there should have been something wrong if a modder could increase the performance this much, but Bethesda didn't think of it first. It's not like this fix has come out years, or even months, after the game release. Which means there hasn't been much time spent on developing it.
Are you here trying to compare the "openness" of FFX to Skyrim? Really?
Skyrim is buggy, and that's terrible, but what point are you trying to make?
Cow Mengde
Banned
Imagine what the Skyrim benchmarks would look like on the HD7970 with this patch!?!
bad perfomance is not a bug.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
5fps increase here we come!
I am sorry but "it's an open world and so ambitious" is SERIOUSLY no excuse anymore in this day and age. Bethesda is a pretty fucking big developer at this point, ever since Oblivion they have been selling shitloads of their games so it cannot exactly be a budgeting issue. Except of course if they are somehow managed like shit and the people who actually do the planning and budgeting are retards.
Technically their games are still as bad or worse than open world RPG games from tiny European devs who make their games at 1/10 of the budget. Then, there are countless open world games like Just Cause 2, Arkham City etc. made by mid-sized developers that perform reasonably well and without bugs from the get go (yes, they are also less complex games, but not by much when you consider how Bethesda themselves have streamlined, stripped down and simplified the TES experience over the years).
There is simply no excuse anymore. The only reason why Bethesda can get away with it because in the North American market there is no competition for the kind of thing they do.
Technically their games are still as bad or worse than open world RPG games from tiny European devs who make their games at 1/10 of the budget. Then, there are countless open world games like Just Cause 2, Arkham City etc. made by mid-sized developers that perform reasonably well and without bugs from the get go (yes, they are also less complex games, but not by much when you consider how Bethesda themselves have streamlined, stripped down and simplified the TES experience over the years).
There is simply no excuse anymore. The only reason why Bethesda can get away with it because in the North American market there is no competition for the kind of thing they do.
walking fiend
Member
Graphically non-openworld design does not equal to non-linearity, maybe you used the wrong word?
We're clearly talking about CPU here, right?
Head over to the Arkham City PC thead and ask that question to those who lost all their progress with the save wipes or the DX11 failure.
StoppedInTracks
Member
Am I reading this right:
all this mod does is decreases some AI/ pathfinding probing cycles so the CPU spends less time calculating them. Like in Infinity Engine games you could set the Pathfinding CPU Time in the Settings to be really low (fastest performance) or really high and accurate (slowest performance).
???
all this mod does is decreases some AI/ pathfinding probing cycles so the CPU spends less time calculating them. Like in Infinity Engine games you could set the Pathfinding CPU Time in the Settings to be really low (fastest performance) or really high and accurate (slowest performance).
???
walking fiend
Member
did it get fixed? was it a deep fuck up like PS3 version that seems not fixable?
I pointed out before that not being able to fix the game in time was another flaw of Bethesda.
Dorfdad
Gold Member
what new drivers it shows 10.24.2011 is the newest for me on Nvidia 570gtx.
beta drivers. 290.53 I believe.