He created Smash for people who had no time for hardcore fighters.
Which is kinda funny.
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Smash Bros. Creator Talks About Customization, State Of Fighting Games
- Thread starter Avallon
- Start date
He created Smash for people who had no time for hardcore fighters.
Which is kinda funny.
This is still a business after all. Great if they can please the fans (of a game they made over ten years ago) but ultimately it's not realistic or even reasonable to except for them to cater exclusively them.
The install base for the Wii is also a little bit bigger than that of the gamecube was. That usually helps.
sixteen-bit
Member
edit: question answered.
Wait, what couldn't have happened? Them having fun or them squeeking in a few wins?
I used to play Melee with my little cousins all the time and they had a good time. They transitioned to brawl fine and then when I downloaded Project M they didn't even notice the difference. Same can be said about my same-aged friends.
Yes, posted a page or two back. But take not of the platform's install base.
commanderpepper
Member
It is a minority compared to how many people actually bought Melee.
How many Gamecubes had been sold when Melee came out?
How many Wiis had been sold when Brawl came out?
I think this may be an important factor but I may be wrong.
You mean like there was no way a vocal minority would give millions of dollars to a Wasteland 2? Someone just said Melle sold 7 and Brawl 10 Million. The competitive scene that cares about this probably doesn't even exceed 100 000 people.
Of course. Not by a large margin when you consider the install base of GC and Wii though.
Avallon
Member
I'm not asking for them to cater exclusively. I'm asking for them to not limit competitive play for the sheer reason of "some players are better than other players, and that's not fun. let's lower the skill ceiling."
Let's compare Gamecube and Wii console sales.
Gamecube 22 million
Wii 99.84 million
So, that kind of comparison does not work. Especially in the case that Melee is also a portion of those sales, since people enjoyed it.
And what's your point? Brawl still sold better. There are more people who purchased Brawl than Melee.
And Melee was an almost-launch title. It doesn't matter. Brawl sold better, more than 1.5x what Melee did.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
This is an interesting point. We're not exactly in Guilty Gear territory here.
chickdigger802
Banned
I sorta want that too. The jump from 64 to melee wasn't as big from melee to brawl imo.
and the lack of any mario galaxy moves shown for mario is kinda saddening
It's the difference between playing a good platformer and playing Little Big Planet.
Everything about Brawl is much floatier and slower.
It was on a system that sold 4x as much.
RiderKairuu
Member
What exactly was it about Melee that he seems to want to get further and further away from? Was it stuff like wavedashing? I'm not a hardcore Smash player so forgive my ignorance.
So what made Brawl so horrible for competitive players? Was it the general direction or some invidual things? It's a honest question since I weren't there for it. I know about tripping but that's gone now.
And again, that's completely irrelevant to the point that Sakurai was making. But thanks again. Does anyone else want to say it?
Yes, but were they 4 million.
Were they anywhere near the amount of people who bought brawl or melee?
No, ok then
But it was completely relevant to the point you were making.
That's the way it's sounding but he's been pretty vague about it. It sounds more like anything too complex (like wavedashing) he wants gone.
Diprosalic
Banned
he cares, but they are a huuuge minority and he will not cater the game to their liking. which i think is totally reasonable.
Avallon
Member
Tripping was huge, but balance was bigger. That game is simply unbalanced, with Metaknight and Snake being broken tier characters. The game is also slowed down significantly (by removing the wave-dash glitch), meaning even general movement requires less skill.
I had a circle of friends and we played Melee at night at least four times a week. This happened consistently for at least six years. We got the 4995 matches trophy thing on three different gamecubes.
Brawl came out and we played it like that for a month, and then we all stopped caring about Smash. Brawl was so unreal disappointing for us
Brawl came out and we played it like that for a month, and then we all stopped caring about Smash. Brawl was so unreal disappointing for us
No... it wasn't. I have no stake in this game. I don't really have a preference for one over the other. I was merely stating that Brawl sold 4 million copies more, and I can understand how Sakurai might see that as an affirmation that there are a "silent majority" of people who prefer Brawl.
BUT PLEASE, tell me exact what I meant and what I said and how the install bases of both are relevant to the point that I was trying to explain from Sakurai's POV.
Because if Capcom can't develop proper match-making technology, you think Nintendo will?
You can't combo. The flow of the combat is very stop-and-go as a result.
The physics are floaty.
The game in general is sluggish.
My point was more that the sales numbers don't really matter when evaluating which game was more liked by the casual crowd.
Gimping your own mechanics just to lower the skill ceiling is dumb. The casual players don't notice the difference and it makes the game unenjoyable for the invested fans.
Having an invested community for your games is a good thing.
Your initial post is still moot though.
I highly doubt any casual Smash player contributed to that EVO fund.
Mostly hardcore Melee fans who dwell on Smash forums, and actually watch EVO streams.
Troubled Bat
Member
I don't understand why he thinking the way he does. Sure, I get what he's saying. But just because you get something like Melee, doesn't mean Casuals aren't going to go for it.
There's still items and all that jazz, along with the 'comeback mechanic' which is Final Smash. I'm pretty sure a casual would play Brawl the same way they did with Melee, so why take away something from the competitive group?
Didn't he also say he was going to change things up because Brawl was more in mind for a noob friendly way, and to get new players in. That since he already has that crowd he doesn't need to go that way again. :x
There's still items and all that jazz, along with the 'comeback mechanic' which is Final Smash. I'm pretty sure a casual would play Brawl the same way they did with Melee, so why take away something from the competitive group?
Didn't he also say he was going to change things up because Brawl was more in mind for a noob friendly way, and to get new players in. That since he already has that crowd he doesn't need to go that way again. :x
ViewtifulJC
Banned
The way the Brawl defenders talk about Melee like it was some kinda...super-complicated rocket science shit that was inaccessible to all but the most skilled.
Small children played that game and had fun, just as much as the higher level players. It catered to both. That's the beauty of Super Smash Bros. Melee! You don't have to choose one or the other!
Small children played that game and had fun, just as much as the higher level players. It catered to both. That's the beauty of Super Smash Bros. Melee! You don't have to choose one or the other!
Requiring more skill simply for the sake of requiring "more skill" is not good design.
KittenMaster
Member
There were competitive players playing Brawl, they just need to fix a lot of issues and do a better job balancing the game mechanics and then it won't matter who the target audience is.
abstract alien
Member
If we didn't post, we would be in non vocal majority, whatever that is. Still, I enjoyed Brawl so much more. The weight, the movement...it just felt so much better.
That's how Sakurai is, he always tries very hard to make a game super accessible, even a game like Kid Icarus can be finished by a total noob. I understand he wants to give the noob a slight chance to win against a skilled player.
Not all Nintendo directors and producers think this way. Ironically, Miyamoto is the one who tends to give players some challenge/competition whenever he is involved as a producer.
J
Jotamide
Unconfirmed Member
I despise this attitude devs have today where they assume non-core gamers are retarded. Every time we play Smash with my friends, people who clearly have no interest in gaming will join for some matches and it takes then less than 5 minutes to figure out the mechanics. They always end up having fun and some have even expressed interest in getting together once the new Smash Bros comes out.
It will be more technical than Brawl (a game that's not very technical) and more accessible than Melee (a game that didn't sell as good as Brawl). You guys are complaining about this, why? From the start, the series is meant to be accessible, complaining about creator being firm with his original intent seem silly especially now that he's fixing a lot of complaint in Brawl.
Doesn't matter, Gamecube was floundering at launch. There are more people who have purchased Brawl than Melee, but I've already proven that the console sold heaps more, and by install base, is inferior.
So, whatever point you're trying to make, let me also add that just because people bought brawl, doesn't mean they prefer it over Melee. Sakurai's point is pure guesstimate.
Brawl sold 4 million more, but not only is it the sequel to the biggest selling Gamecube game, it's install base by comparison is much less.
stanley1993
Neo Member
I thought brawl speed was great. A happy medium between the two would be even better. For me this news is great. Ill gladly accept something different as long as the core fighting mechanics remain the same.
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