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Smash Pro's Tournament Victory Speech Calls Out Nintendo
- Thread starter Makonero
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lmao EatinOlives what are you doing
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Armada and Hbox only play Melee at a remotely serious level. M2K is clearly the top dog when it comes to being a multi-game threat, since he's a top level player in Melee, Brawl, and 4, and knows his way around 64. Wizzrobe is also a top player in Melee and 64, and he plays Smash 4 but isn't really top level. Not sure of any other Melee players that are actual top level players in multiple games.
Not counting PM, while it has plenty of it's own top talent a lot of it carried over from Melee. Usually not enough for a top Melee player to blindly win a PM tournament, but enough to place well.
You should see the official tournaments for Splatoon in Japan. They even get Callie and Marie hologram concerts.
Okay that's good then. I'll admit I was wrong about hungrybox, but I'll keep the original comment for posterity's sake.
Truly the question of our leisure times.
That's the only way I could see them supporting the scene in any way; Nintendo themed tournaments with games like Splatoon, Arms, Smash 4, Melee and maybe Pokken.
Yeah I meant it with regards to melee sorry and why I'd like to see a new melee game something like project M would be the ideal.
Holy Order Sol
Member
didn't he punch the TV, kick the chair and hurt himself
Mr Fahrenheit
Member
The most entertaining thing about Smash is waiting for the day someone in their community discovers self awareness
He is right thought. "Growing the eSports community" isn't a goal in of itself. The eSports thing is a small subset of their Marketing arm. It's a part of their portfolio not even because they had the insight to push that angle, but rather other companies paved the way and it turns out their fighting game which they call an Action game was actually a more popular eSport than almost every other fighting game.
I think that's what they're asking for. More of that... and more prizes.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Rod Ferguson from Gears of War recently announce a season 2 for its competitive league, including another $1 million prize pool. This is for a game with a fraction of the popularity of Smash.
But I guess it's too much to ask for a multi billion dollar company like Nintendo to show even remotely the same love and care as its fans do them and as other companies treat their fans.
But I guess it's too much to ask for a multi billion dollar company like Nintendo to show even remotely the same love and care as its fans do them and as other companies treat their fans.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
you think you're better than people who play a game passionately?
thats cute
because people like you have reading comprehension issues despite how frequently people explain why SSBM is its own thing
Relevant
Renegade Frost
Banned
Spider from Mars
tap that thorax
Harmonix should write checks so I can live off of Guitar Hero 2 tournaments!
Not really more than saying the same for professional sports.
If anything the fact that the melee community not only still exists, but is the largest smash community is an argument that Nintendo should try to support it.
Renegade Frost
Banned
catering to the competitive community is a bad idea
Lyon N. Laap
Member
Weird how your response has nothing to do with either what I or what the person I was responding to were saying.
Hungrybox and other top players can make Melee their careers without needing Nintendo to do literally anything. But with a large and dedicated community like Melee, something besides random Twitter mentions would be nice.
You must not watch melee. Compare finals sets from big tournaments today to those from 5 years ago. The game has changed massively. Of course this is also just wrong because Hbox plays jiggly.
Nintendo isn't obligated to do anything, but HBox is free to say that they should do something. I don't get why people are giving him a hard time here.
Renegade Frost
Banned
Nintendo's much smaller than microsoft.
All Im getting from this thread is people like Smash or Melee and dont watch either of them.
TBH I get bored watching the same characters fight all the time. Which has happened in both sets, no matter how much the gameplay is exciting.
The way competitive gaming works for both of these titles is inherently boring because its the commentators going on while the stages are boring.
Would rather be watching long combo chains in Killer Instinct, Blazblue or Guilty Gear instead.
Valkerionseven
Member
And that will be it.
E3 streams of "tournaments" are basically their place holder of actual events. They will do this one thing and thats it. They did the same for Smash 4 before its release.
I mean I get that the smash people want their game to be taken serious, for Nintendo to take it serious, and what not. But it's just not going to happen. Nintendo refuses to see Smash as a serious fighting game. They are not interested in the competitive aspect.
Their whole competitive angle on the splatoon and arms stuff is going to be their one event and then nothing we all know it. The best you can hope for is Nintendo to not block your event.
kingofthedead45
Member
I think the bigger issue here is the way these professionals and communities carry themselves. You call out a very family friendly oriented business to support your community and the proceed to drop the fbomb. On top of that the community in general is not the most family friendly. If they're serious about making it a lifestyle, you should probably treat it with some more professionalism.
I feel like these high level players that want these companies to invest in them really should consider maybe looking in to getting an agent or pr professional. Someone who will teach them how to act in the public eye because they don't know how to on their own. Maybe when the communities grow up and get
thier stuff together we can talk about more support coming from those kinds of businesses.
I feel like these high level players that want these companies to invest in them really should consider maybe looking in to getting an agent or pr professional. Someone who will teach them how to act in the public eye because they don't know how to on their own. Maybe when the communities grow up and get
thier stuff together we can talk about more support coming from those kinds of businesses.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
people are straight up lying out of spite, it seems
It seems to often be people who spent money on Smash4 and want to vindicate their time and money rather than try to comprehend why Melee is still huge.
I know how it is, when mum bought me an N64 id do my best to argue with the playstation kids because I didnt play playstation.
I agree this is an issue. That being said the community has been getting better recently, and this is somewhat a question of putting the cart before the horse.
People will start regulating their behavior when the stakes give them incentive to do so.
When it was announced Smash 4 was taking the main stage at evo I was worried it wouldn't be able to fill the position with enough hype.
But after watching the ZeRo vs Ally and the Hungrybox vs Armada, yeah, Smash 4 should probably get main stage.
Edsmells12345
Member
Leagues make rule changes all the time. People are welcome to play the old rules if they want but don't expect to get paid.
IDK I play Smash 4, and I think that melee has somewhat of an elitist problem(especially at lower levels where people are repeating argument that they don't understand for why melee is better), but I don't think that's the only thing that's going on here. For some reason GAF seems to be pretty against esports becoming institutionalized. Additionally, some of this seems to come from a classic kneejerk defense of a massive international company that is essentially not at all impacted by Hbox's comments.
I thought both sets were good, but the biggest problem with Smash4, the campiness, was actually also in the melee final due to Hbox's, or maybe just Jigglypuff's, playstyle. Edit: I got this backwards. Like the poster below me said. The final set shouldn't be take as indicative of melee generally. Meanwhile I also thought the last set of Smash 4 was pretty boring, so I'm not really sure where you are coming from anyway.
Lyon N. Laap
Member
This is a real sticking point that has proven very divisive. There has been a gradual push from top to bottom to professionalize the scene, with TO's and commentators (probably with guidance from their sponsors) gradually phasing out the rougher aspects of tournaments.
Generally no cursing happens on set and when it does it is usually immediately discouraged. You can even see the person who handed Hbox the mic attempt to get it back several times. This is of course to make Melee and it's events more presentable and thus enticing for sponsors/families.
Many members of the community in the other hand see this as a negative change from the freewheeling curseheavy days of old (even those not from those times), and see it as sterile and lacking real emotion.
Hbox was clearly appealing to the latter side, and he lately seems to be more willing to curse on stream recently. He's really the only top player to push the boundary recently (besides the Moon kinda), and I don't see it picking up steam because of the way tournaments are run.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
the biggest gaming forum is against competitive gaming?
this seems kind of insane to me :/
this is clearly not just different rules
the commentators didn't disagree with you there. Its just what happens with his character.
Yeah, I honestly don't understand why. I don't really care, because I don't watch other people play games too often, but I just don't understand why people seem to be against it. Look at the mess in the esports at the Olympics thread.
Men's tennis had 3 players (Nadal, Federer, and Djokovic) completely dominate every tennis major for several years, that doesn't mean that no one else was trying to win. The top Melee players strive to get better at Melee so that they can beat the 5 gods, and there are thousands of Melee players who only compete locally and still enjoy the game.
You really underestimate the difference between Melee and Smash 4. Just compare top level Smash 4 gameplay vs top level Melee gameplay, it's quite different.
rexpro
Neo Member
I totally agree with that, nintendo could totally use melee to atract viewers to their other games & products (they could make nintendo theme events) it doesnt matter how toxic or wierd the community is thats irrelevant ; -219,125 main channel / 232,900 total twitch viewers- THATS EVEN HIGHER THAN SFV IN ITS FIRST YEAR. Im not buisnessman myself but i think there is a market opportunity there.
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I think what HB meant with his "speech" is that they can behave as toxic or as rude as they want since they are not endorsed?* by nintendo unlike capcom who is watching every move that their commentators/players do at events.
Now go watch Mango Armada at Royal Flush. Let's not pretend like those sets aren't the exceptions. Smash 4 in general has a slower tempo to it. It's not a bad thing, but let's not pretend that Melee is riddled with camping and Smash 4 rewards fast offensive play.
Realize though that those two are the top 2 players in the world. The two number 1 seeds. Those are the players most likely to go to grand finals together(See Evo 2016).
His point stands, Melee is the much faster game. The problem people had with the final sets last night were that they were closer the Smash 4 than Melee typically is. I actually prefer Smash 4 personally, but lets not act like Melee isn't the faster game.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Let's not pretend like that's normal for Melee, regardless of who was playing. Even the commentators were groaning and making jokes about it.
And the Evo 2016 set was actually pretty great. All their sets are from a raw mental and technical standpoint (even the Smash and Splash one was a huge tempo mindgame by Hbox), but Evo 2016 was good even as a viewer.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
Nintendo is not interested in taking competitive gaming seriously. If they do decide to invest there, it will not be in a 16 year old game which they don't have the ability to further update or balance.
Whatever my own thoughts about the game and its suitability for competitive play, this has already been made abundantly clear. Players continuing to cling to the game should probably find a game with more support if they want to play competitively for a living.
Whatever my own thoughts about the game and its suitability for competitive play, this has already been made abundantly clear. Players continuing to cling to the game should probably find a game with more support if they want to play competitively for a living.
depths20XX
Member
Does Nintendo not put money in for tournaments of their newer games? I thought with Pokken and Smash 4 they started having more cash tournaments?
I know it's nothing to the level of what Capcom, Bamco, and NRS are doing but I thought they were starting.
Even still I don't see why Nintendo would support a 16 year old game. Even the other companies I listed didn't start supporting the scenes strongly until fairly recently.
I know it's nothing to the level of what Capcom, Bamco, and NRS are doing but I thought they were starting.
Even still I don't see why Nintendo would support a 16 year old game. Even the other companies I listed didn't start supporting the scenes strongly until fairly recently.
They did, they released two sequels, each with better rosters and fan services, and the latest one have fixed almost everything people complained about.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
no, not even close
even ignoring competitive play, they still haven't brought back some of the loved single player aspects
Nintendo has provided setup stuff, and stuff in the background. They have never put anything into the money pot.
Pokken was handled by TPCi and even then, the grand finals were college scholarship/tuition stuff IIRC.
durrrrrrrrrr
Member
Melee players seem to have trouble finding self awareness along with deodorant
I like 3S and hate SFV, yet somehow I can play and enjoy 3S without throwing a baby tantrum over lack of Capcom support and let SFV players do their thing
I like 3S and hate SFV, yet somehow I can play and enjoy 3S without throwing a baby tantrum over lack of Capcom support and let SFV players do their thing
whatever you say, smash 4 used brawl as a base, and it shows.
Even ignoring competitive play, if someone liked pree brawl smash gameplay that much better, i don't see how they are going to be content with a game that used brawl as a base.
Renegade Frost
Banned
tell me more
If those are EVO 2016 numbers, SFV's viewership was split between Twitch & ESPN2 (the latter was around 6 seconds ahead of Twitch).
Lyon N. Laap
Member
The thing is what they have is perfectly fine for making it a living. There are numerous players who aren't even top players who have Melee and affiliated activities as their main source of income.
Hbox himself was able to quit his engineering job and make Melee his full time work. The whole point of his speech was stating that he didn't feel like they had to act according to how Nintendo might prefer it specifically because they don't have and have not really needed the it support.
Renegade Frost
Banned
this is incorrect
LordKasual
Banned
What hes saying is that people are watching them because they're good at the game and have built a scene for themselves. I'm pretty sure as a top player in Melee, it should be damn aggravating to see how rapidly companies have taken to supporting their games and embracing the Esports scene...but Nintendo completely ignores (and in some cases, actively antagonizes) melee's scene, despite it remaining one of the biggest games IN the esports scene. It's completely the work of the community, if it were up to Nintendo they probably wouldn't even exist. They already tried to snuff them out once, and probably only stopped because it would have been a true PR nightmare.
Also....people call the Melee crowd "TOXIC" and blame them for the dividing of the Smash Community...but people seem to forget that Brawl deliberately retooled the series' mechanics to not be played like Melee. And tripping was a direct slap to the face.
If Nintendo had just stopped at not supporting the competitive scene, then Brawl would have released, probably in the same vein as Melee, the competitive scene would have probably pushed the game even farther than it went on its own, and casuals still would have bought it up because it's a damn Smash game. But they chose to actively fight against the movement instead.
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