Support NeoGAF

[Lirlond]

In England, there is a total smoking ban in all public places. You can't even smoke in a bar or a club. This is the future.

And scotland and wales, and northern Ireland and Rep Ireland

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

In England, there is a total smoking ban in all public places. You can't even smoke in a bar or a club. This is the future.

And that's how it now is in many US States, or at least major cities.

But by "public places" I assume you aren't including outside?

I believe Washington State has one of the harshest bans.. as you aren't supposed to smoke within 25 feet of a door, open window, or vent. But it's not enforced.. as many businesses have outdoor smoking areas that don't have any sort of 25 foot buffer.

Legally though, that makes most of downtown off limits for smoking.. not that it's followed as I said, and it is legal to walk down the street and smoke.. which I wish was illegal.

They also banned smoking in all public parks.

 

[Brannon]

This specific ban I think is poorly designed, as the 25% food receipts regulation makes a pretty big loophole that either favors pubs, or leads to restaurants getting "Creative" with their book-keeping. I'd rather it be closer to a blanket ban.

I can see it now; either call in or tell the host at the entrance that you want Menu A, B or C, and each menu requires that you pay "x" amount of money, which is coincidentally equal to 80% of the average cost of the meal. You then pay the "Seating Charge" for whatever menu you picked, as it were, and then you get seated and order from the menu that you picked, which just happens to have food priced at 20% of the original cost.


This could totally work, though I'm sure there are gargantuan holes in the strategy, but hey.

 

[LightofRohan]

Poor smokers, have to walk outside to spew smoke everywhere. The horror! Good, now if we can make a law that requires smokers to stand 30 feet away from any person, I'd be happier.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Orlando area. Where in FL do they ban it? I got back to Chicago in April so things may have changed. I see a YouTube vid from 6 days ago saying they were considering a smoking ban.

Im in Jacksonville and havent seen anyone smoking in a restaurant.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

there were studies in NYC and Delaware i believe that showed business increased after the ban.

Anecdotal alert... That being said, the level of people that smoke in the US vs Europe with my limited time there seems to be orders of magnitude different (with Europeans smoking WAYYYYYY more).

during the years that the ban was first enacted was when there was an economic boom so i'm not sure it has to do with people smoking or not smoking.

 

[LegendofJoe]

I saw a guy vaping on the subway in Washington, DC the other night. It was initially sort of shocking, since it visually seems so much like smoking, but there was no odor or smoke, so I ignored it. I imagine it will see some initial hurdles, with people not understanding the differences, but I think it will eventually be a non-issue.

Cool, I expect to see the same thing. What line did you see it on btw?

 

[krypt0nian]

Im in Jacksonville and havent seen anyone smoking in a restaurant.

Restaurants do have a ban. Bars, etc do not. I was tripped up and thought smoking was allowed I restaurants. Sorry.

Wiki:

Statewide smoking ban excluding bars: On July 1, 2003, smoking was banned statewide in all enclosed workplaces in Florida, exempting private residences, retail tobacco shops, designated smoking rooms in hotels/motels, stand-alone bars with no more than 10% of revenue from food sales, rooms used for quit-smoking programs and medical research, and designated smoking areas in customs transit areas under the authority of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.[62] Local governments are preempted from regulating smoking.[63]

 

[TheSeks]

Florida has a state-wide ban on smoking outside of bars. Which is, frankly, reasonable. If you're going to bars to drink, you should expect some smokers inside. But if you're going to a restaurant and the like, you shouldn't be expected to deal with smokers and the smoke wafting from smoking areas into the non-smoking area.

 

[Warrior_Keoni]

This should be up to small business owners but never in a public place. Saw a couple of idiots smoke and toss their butts around. Luckily a cop nearby spotted them and cited them for littering.

Bars = okay. Family restaurant = probably not okay.

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

I can see it now; either call in or tell the host at the entrance that you want Menu A, B or C, and each menu requires that you pay "x" amount of money, which is coincidentally equal to 80% of the average cost of the meal. You then pay the "Seating Charge" for whatever menu you picked, as it were, and then you get seated and order from the menu that you picked, which just happens to have food priced at 20% of the original cost.


This could totally work, though I'm sure there are gargantuan holes in the strategy, but hey.

I think you guys are over thinking this.

"Restaurant Only" smoking bans have existed in other places for decades.. and they generally are based on similar rules.

That's likely the same statute that qualifies you as a "bar" vs. a "restaurant" in that jurisdiction for other purposes.

Previous to our outright smoking ban, you couldn't smoke in restaurants for a long time here in Seattle, WA. The law was likely based on similar rules, percentage of food vs. other services.. and no-one did any fancy paperwork to avoid it.

Florida has a state-wide ban on smoking outside of bars. Which is, frankly, reasonable. If you're going to bars to drink, you should expect some smokers inside. But if you're going to a restaurant and the like, you shouldn't be expected to deal with smokers and the smoke wafting from smoking areas into the non-smoking area.

And I disagree, and 5 years ago had the chance to vote on this disagreement where I live, and my side won

The vast majority of people don't smoke.. that includes people who want to frequent bars.. I don't your logic holds up all that well personally. I don't correlate drinking and cigarette smoking.

 

[eastmen]

fun fact, since the ban all resturants and bars have closed in new york city ..... Oh wait they haven't cause no one cares. Smokers still need to eat abd drink

 

[Brian Fellows]

I think smoking bans in bars are retarded but I don't smoke so it really doesn't affect me.

 

[Shiggy]

I've got see a single restaurant that closed down due to smoking ban. Most of them had other issues that were rather related to bad food, unfriendly staff, too high prices and so on.

I hope that there'll be a general ban on smoking in public...it just stinks. Smokers can go inside their homes, shut their windows and have fun - no problem. But they should not disturb others while smoking...

Even worse, as smokers are not allowed to smoke inside public buildings, they block all doors and make the smoke go inside the entry. Entering train stations always is a stinky experience.


(I'm also one of those people that would like to see a law forcing people in trams to use a deodorant)

 

[Zoe]

This should be up to small business owners but never in a public place. Saw a couple of idiots smoke and toss their butts around. Luckily a cop nearby spotted them and cited them for littering.

I've started reporting drivers for doing that. They only get a warning in the mail, but everybody in Texas should know the consequences by now...

 

[Frank "Trashman" Reynolds]

Eating meat causes health problems to people near them?

YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO TO AN ESTABLISHMENT THAT ALLOWS SMOKING IF YOU DON'T WANT TO.

Just like you don't have to enter porn shops, christian shops, or anything else you might not want to take part in. Restaurants and bars are privately owned and should be able to employ whatever smoking rules they want. You aren't special so go somewhere else. I get people complaining about public places like subways, buses, government buildings, or their work place... but please stop acting like you need to be babied everywhere you go.

 

[Shiggy]

YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO TO AN ESTABLISHMENT THAT ALLOWS SMOKING IF YOU DON'T WANT TO.

What if there aren't any because smokers are a vocal minority?

 

[krypt0nian]

Florida has a state-wide ban on smoking outside of bars. Which is, frankly, reasonable. If you're going to bars to drink, you should expect some smokers inside. But if you're going to a restaurant and the like, you shouldn't be expected to deal with smokers and the smoke wafting from smoking areas into the non-smoking area.

My position is no smoking in a public space. That's what I communicate to my FL reps. Cigar shops/hookah bars exempt.

Side note: We've had to get up and move at the beach when a group of heavy smokers sat next to us and would not move when we asked them to. That's bullshit and the kind of thing that turns public opinion against outdoor smoking in shared spaces. Right now, I'm not that militant but more experiences like that will shift that opinion too.

 

[Frank "Trashman" Reynolds]

What if there aren't any because smokers are a vocal minority?

I am fine with it as long as it is the decision of business owners. You can barely smoke anywhere now in most states, so all of this additional whining is just fucking retarded. It's not even just smoking really... I'm sick of whiny assholes crying and demanding everyone else tip toe around them to their every need. Really, if you don't like something going on at a privately owned business... GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. There are other options for near any business you might want to patronize in life.

 

[aktham]

I'm glad there are smoking bans. I don't like it when I go to the Iowa casinos and the guy right next to me is smoking. I doubt it will ever get banned in Iowa casinos, because they bring in people with addictive personalities and make them feel at home lol

 

[Rainy Dog]

The worst thing about the smoking ban for me (and I'm a smoker) is that it's exposed the aroma of the many unhygienic types that frequent clubs and pubs over here in the UK. Most notably, at music gigs.

The omnipresent whiff of cig smoke everywhere used to mask bodily odors rather handily, but not any longer. Shame.

 

[teepo]

i actually go out much more now because of the ban of smoking in both dc and va. hated having my clothes smell like smoke.

 

[reilo]

YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO TO AN ESTABLISHMENT THAT ALLOWS SMOKING IF YOU DON'T WANT TO.

Just like you don't have to enter porn shops, christian shops, or anything else you might not want to take part in. Restaurants and bars are privately owned and should be able to employ whatever smoking rules they want. You aren't special so go somewhere else. I get people complaining about public places like subways, buses, government buildings, or their work place... but please stop acting like you need to be babied everywhere you go.

Businesses don't exist unless whichever governmental body within its jurisdiction allows it to. The only private thing about a business is who owns and operates it. Welcome to democracy.

 

[Frank "Trashman" Reynolds]

Businesses don't exist unless whichever governmental body within its jurisdiction allows it to. The only private thing about a business is who owns and operates it. Welcome to democracy.

jesus fucking christ... will somebody kill me before smoking does?

 

[Stet]

I am fine with it as long as it is the decision of business owners. You can barely smoke anywhere now in most states, so all of this additional whining is just fucking retarded. It's not even just smoking really... I'm sick of whiny assholes crying and demanding everyone else tip toe around them to their every need. Really, if you don't like something going on at a privately owned business... GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. There are other options for near any business you might want to patronize in life.

Those businesses are responsible for the health and safety of their employees by law.

 

[Shiggy]

I am fine with it as long as it is the decision of business owners. You can barely smoke anywhere now in most states, so all of this additional whining is just fucking retarded. It's not even just smoking really... I'm sick of whiny assholes crying and demanding everyone else tip toe around them to their every need. Really, if you don't like something going on at a privately owned business... GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. There are other options for near any business you might want to patronize in life.

What's your problem exactly? Why should a minority force others either to eat at home or to stink as much as smokers and harm their health? The "private business" thing is stupid, if that always worked we would not need the government. Environmental protection would be superflous if everything work out well without proper legislation.

If only more smokers were considerate and smoked in places where others wouldn't be impacted, we would not need this discussion.

 

[Seth C]

see Lexington, Ky - Ky being a major tobacco producing state, Lexington being the second largest city in said state, and the ban that has been in place for like 10 years or something. lots of initial complaining and fear, and in the end people opened up patios and...businesses continued on (even bars!) -- it was a comprehensive indoor ban for all establishments except private clubs, like the local Bingo hall.

As he said, Lexington has a more or less complete indoor smoking ban. That's not just restaurants but also bars and clubs. Everyone just opened outdoor patios for the smokers and life has been lovely for all of us. The smokers chill outside (usually under a covered area, with heat lamps of some kind for the winter) and the rest don't have to smell of smoke all night. Smoking sections in restaurants always sucked. As a kid I hated being in the "non-smoking" section at a table which was 3 inches from the smoking section. Now many restaurants have outdoor patios as well, and you are free to smoke out there.

I am fine with it as long as it is the decision of business owners. You can barely smoke anywhere now in most states, so all of this additional whining is just fucking retarded. It's not even just smoking really... I'm sick of whiny assholes crying and demanding everyone else tip toe around them to their every need. Really, if you don't like something going on at a privately owned business... GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. There are other options for near any business you might want to patronize in life.

He was suggesting that the smokers' vocal minority caused there to be few (if any) entirely non-smoking restaurants available to the majority. Restaurants were afraid to lose the business of smokers if they banned it on their own, because then smokers would go elsewhere. It had to be everyone or no one. In the end, the democracy you surely hold dear won out, and the majority voted against the minority. Hence, smoking bans.

Anyway, your entire argument lacks the acknowledgement that people work at these restaurants and bars, just as they do in office buildings, and they probably don't want to have to breath smoke for 8 hours a day.

 

[reilo]

jesus fucking christ... will somebody kill me before smoking does?

How about you provide a genuine argument and quit with the rah-rah "private business!!!" rhetoric?

Here is a privacy argument for you: go smoke inside the confines of your home, and leave your disgusting and harmful habit out of publically accessible establishments.

 

[Nemesis121]

This ban should be worldwide.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

I am fine with it as long as it is the decision of business owners. You can barely smoke anywhere now in most states, so all of this additional whining is just fucking retarded. It's not even just smoking really... I'm sick of whiny assholes crying and demanding everyone else tip toe around them to their every need. Really, if you don't like something going on at a privately owned business... GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. There are other options for near any business you might want to patronize in life.

Or you could just walk outside for the 2 minutes you're smoking instead of needing to be babied. Seems the only one who is whiny is you for refusal to walk 15 ft. to go outside.

 

[nateeasy]

I'll just leave this here.

Emergency room visits for heart attacks dropped sharply after enforcement of Ohio’s smoking ban began in 2007, according to data announced Thursday by the state Department of Health.

A comparison of emergency room visit data from 2005 through 2010 found a 26 percent drop in heart attack complaints after enforcement of the ban began in May 2007.

Discharge data from Ohio hospitals showed a similar drop in heart attack rates after the law took effect, state health officials said.

The study set out to see if the smoking ban had reduced the effects of secondhand smoke.

It excluded Franklin County, home of Columbus, which had a smoking ban prior to the statewide ban.

Despite showing a large decrease in heart attack complaints, the study cautioned against making “causal assumptions” about the findings.

Still, the news cheered health officials.

“I think it’s real encouraging,” said Pam Reichel, executive director of Premier Community Health, which provides health and wellness programs to local employers and the community on behalf of Premier Health Partners. “One of the hardest things to prove in public health is cause.”

Other studies announced Thursday by the state Department of Health showed the smoking ban appeared to have no immediate impact on low birth rates and — as some had feared — bar and restaurant sales.

The latter conclusion was based on analysis of sales data from 2003 through 2010 that accounted for unemployment and seasons of the year.

Ohioans’ tobacco use is higher than the national average. In 2010, 20.1 percent of Ohio adults smoked, compared with the national rate of 18.4 percent.

Long-term funding was eliminated this year for Ohio’s smoking quit line, which received 73,549 calls between July 2007 and March 2011.

Reichel said Premier Community’s smoking cessation programs were not affected by the funding cuts.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news...acks-dip-after-smoking-ban-began-1244227.html

 

[Frank "Trashman" Reynolds]

Or you could just walk outside for the 2 minutes you're smoking instead of needing to be babied. Seems the only one who is whiny is you for refusal to walk 15 ft. to go outside.

I am fine with this. I don't need to be babied. If a business owner wants to allow smoking then that should be how it is. If they don't? I can go right outside.

As for employees. They can also decide where to apply based on the practices of any business. If you don't like smoking just stay away and go somewhere that does not allow it. People need to make their own fucking choices, and then proceed to not force them on everyone else.

 

[Stet]

As for employees. They can also decide where to apply based on the practices of any business. If you don't like smoking just stay away and go somewhere that does not allow it. People need to make their own fucking choices, and then proceed to not force them on everyone else.

The U.S. unemployment rate is upwards of 9 per cent. You want to limit the kinds of minimum wage jobs that people can apply for if they want a safe work environment? Everyone should be entitled to a job in which they don't have to fear for their health. If there are dangers, businesses must address them by law.

 

[Frank "Trashman" Reynolds]

How about you provide a genuine argument and quit with the rah-rah "private business!!!" rhetoric?

Here is a privacy argument for you: go smoke inside the confines of your home, and leave your disgusting and harmful habit out of publically accessible establishments.

Unfortunately I can't smoke inside my own home because my landlord has decided they do not want to allow it. I am totally fine with this.

Why don't you relegate practicing any of your habits I find disgusting to only your home? I have a huge list of shit a can't stand, but I realize I don't need to tell everyone how to live their lives. Try that sometime. It's less stressful when you only worry about yourself.

 

[MutFox]

Hope they ban it from people smoking in the streets too.
Hate when I have a smoker walking in front of me,
and the smoke just keeps going in my face.
usually I have to hold my breath and pass them.

Not sure if any other people have this issue,
but the slightest hint of tabacco smoke hurts my nasal passages.
Nothing else does this. (never inhaled poison, so not sure about"nothing")

And yeah, live in Vancouver,
glad they don't smoke in restaurants and bars anymore.

I think smokers that want to smoke anywhere,
are just selfish people that don't care about harming others.

 

[demon]

As for employees. They can also decide where to apply based on the practices of any business. If you don't like smoking just stay away and go somewhere that does not allow it. People need to make their own fucking choices, and then proceed to not force them on everyone else.

Because there are so many jobs to choose from!

 

[Stumpokapow]

Why don't you relegate practicing any of your habits I find disgusting to only your home? I have a huge list of shit a can't stand, but I realize I don't need to tell everyone how to live their lives. Try that sometime. It's less stressful when you only worry about yourself.

The comeback doesn't work unless there's actually a habit he has that you find disgusting.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Hope they ban it from people smoking in the streets too.
Hate when I have a smoker walking in front of me,
and the smoke just keeps going in my face.
usually I have to hold my breath and pass them.

Not sure if any other people have this issue,
but the slightest hint of tabacco smoke hurts my nasal passages.
Nothing else does this. (never inhaled poison, so not sure about"nothing")

And yeah, live in Vancouver,
glad they don't smoke in restaurants and bars anymore.

I think smokers that want to smoke anywhere,
are just selfish people that don't care about harming others.

This reads like a strange, bitter poem.

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

If a business owner wants to allow smoking then that should be how it is.

But that's not how it works. Sorry.

 

[Meier]

I am amazed there are places that still permit smoking frankly. It's been banned for years in the last city and current city I live in. It's wonderful.

 

[reilo]

Unfortunately I can't smoke inside my own home because my landlord has decided they do not want to allow it. I am totally fine with this.

Hah. I love it.

Why don't you relegate practicing any of your habits I find disgusting to only your home? I have a huge list of shit a can't stand, but I realize I don't need to tell everyone how to live their lives. Try that sometime. It's less stressful when you only worry about yourself.

And what habits would those be, hmmm? What habits do I do in public that have an adverse effect on your health?

 

[Drkirby]

Personally, I think banning Smoking in private business encroaches on their rights. If they didn't want smoking in their establishment, they could of banned it themselves.

But, people don't seem to mind that much anyway. The issue comes up that law makers can use the smoking ban as presidence to pass similar laws decades down the line.

 

[MutFox]

This reads like a strange, bitter poem.

Unlike smokers, I care about my health.

 

[reilo]

Personally, I think banning Smoking in private business encroaches on their rights. If they didn't want smoking in their establishment, they could of banned it themselves.

Private businesses only have the rights granted to them by local and federal government. Again, private businesses don't have the right to do whatever the hell they want and they cannot even operate as a business unless the government allows them to. The precedent is long and storied in that regard.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

With no data to back me up, just based on personal observation as someone who smoked as recently as six months ago and witnessed Illinois ban smoking followed by St. Louis County years later, I mostly don't really buy into adverse effects on business. The only "local business owners outraged over smoking ban!" claims that really made sense to me were possibly the casinos. I just might buy into the argument that if you're a smoker living in the St. Louis Metro East area, you might be inclined to cross the bridge and go to a casino like Lumiere (downtown St. Louis) where smoking is still permitted (exempt from the ban) as opposed to the Casino Queen in East St. Louis where smoking is not allowed.

 

[Frank "Trashman" Reynolds]

The U.S. unemployment rate is upwards of 9 per cent. You want to limit the kinds of minimum wage jobs that people can apply for if they want a safe work environment? Everyone should be entitled to a job in which they don't have to fear for their health. If there are dangers, businesses must address them by law.

lol

I would like any religion specific business to be forced by law to carry products based on all religions, and for agnostics, atheists, and anyone else. Their nerve forcing something down my throat when I chose to try to find a book at that store over somewhere else!!! Not to mention if I was facing hard times and needed any sort of job! I might want to apply there, but religion makes me uncomfortable and I don't endorse it. Why are they limiting potential jobs I have access to? Oh wait, they aren't. I would be the one doing that. Just like some people refuse to work retail because they can't handle dickbag customers non-stop. Lots of shit in life should come down to making choices. You should trying doing that sometime without forcing it on others.

If I was demanding that I should be able to smoke in a place you had to be like your own home or car... Or even in every single restaurant or bar. I might care about what you're saying.

 

[Houston3000]

There's a statewide ban on smoking in all enclosed public places in New York. Bars, restaurants, hotels (except in special rooms), etc... in fact they just inhibited smoking in public parks as well. Besides your house and car the only place you can smoke in New York is on the sidewalk or in tobacco shops. When I used to live in Florida you were at least allowed to smoke in bars. I think a majority of states now ban that though.

Don't care too much myself, I was never a heavy smoker and usually just don't buy cigarettes anymore. I don't think I've smoked in almost a year now.

 

[Shiggy]

Personally, I think banning Smoking in private business encroaches on their rights. If they didn't want smoking in their establishment, they could of banned it themselves.

That's a not really reasonable imo. So should the state also allow for people being shot in private businesses? I know this example is far-fetched, but not allowing that also encroaches on their rights. I'm not well-informed US law, but at leats in Germany anybody has the right to physical integrity, which they have everywhere they go.
If these private businesses don't like that, they can just become private clubs and just be open to smoking members. For what I see, this did not work for many of them.

 

[cwmartin]

In Connecticut you can't smoke inside unless it is a personal residence. Period. Although there is an exemption that you have some type of exclusivity to your establishment ie, a club (like a club as in group with similar hobbies/interests, not a dance club), then you can smoke in your "club" headquarters.

 

[Beardz]

What is this private business bullshit? We are talking about a health issue here.