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[345triangle]

i'm a non-smoker and i couldn't care less about other people smoking - i honestly find the people who make a big deal about it kind of embarrassing. if you're asthmatic or something then fine, but as a healthy 20-something i am not worried.

that said, choice is a good thing for either party, meaning that non-smokers should have the right to go somewhere with no smoke and smokers should have the right to smoke together. here's the thing, though: before anti-smoking legislation, non-smokers already did have that right, but few non-smoking establishments were open, presumably as it wouldn't have been good for business. a halfway house needs to be found, then, probably by licensing - blanket bans are unnecessary and ridiculous.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

i'm a non-smoker and i couldn't care less about other people smoking - i honestly find the people who make a big deal about it kind of embarrassing. if you're asthmatic or something then fine, but as a healthy 20-something i am not worried.

that said, choice is a good thing for either party, meaning that non-smokers should have the right to go somewhere with no smoke and smokers should have the right to smoke together. here's the thing, though: before anti-smoking legislation, non-smokers already did have that right, but few non-smoking establishments were open, presumably as it wouldn't have been good for business. a halfway house needs to be found, then, probably by licensing - blanket bans are unnecessary and ridiculous.

Smoking is not a right, it's a luxury

No one is entitled to being able to smoke wherever they want.

 

[nateeasy]

Not only are smokers killing us they are also killing our beaches.

Cigarette butts are the most common piece of litter worldwide, according to data from the annual cleanup. Last year alone, volunteers counted nearly 2 million of them, enough to fill 94,626 packs of cigarettes. In 25 years, The Ocean Conservancy has counted 52.9 million cigarette butts, 14.7 million food wrappers and 13.5 million caps and lids.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2016241112_coastalcleanup18m.html

 

[reilo]

Really how is it any different? If I don't like something I will avoid it. If you don't like smoking? Avoid it. I'm not tell you every restaurant or bar has to allow it. I'm saying owners should be able to decide if they do or not. Based on that you can choose where you want to go.

Because you smoking in the same vicinity as me pollutes the same air that I breathe? That rises exponentially when confined within a non-open space?

Walking by a Christian bookstore does not negative inhibit my health nor upon does it infringe upon anybody's religion.

Eating shitty fastfood or drinking alcohol does not inhibit the health of the people around you.

Smoking does not have to negatively affect your health. If I was walking into a restaurant and saw smoking going on I might be inclined to go somewhere else if I was worried about it.

Or here is a simpler solution: the less than ten percent people of smoking can go somewhere else. Thankfully local governments agree.

 

[indigo-cyclops]

i'm a non-smoker and i couldn't care less about other people smoking - i honestly find the people who make a big deal about it kind of embarrassing. if you're asthmatic or something then fine, but as a healthy 20-something i am not worried.

that said, choice is a good thing for either party. non-smokers should have the right to go somewhere with no smoke, smokers should have the right to smoke together. here's the thing, though: before anti-smoking legislation, non-smokers already did have that right, but few non-smoking establishments were open, presumably as it wouldn't have been good for business. a halfway house needs to be found, then, probably by licensing - blanket bans are unnecessary and ridiculous.

Reasonable, sound argument.

EDIT: Still, it's difficult because as mentioned it's a luxury, but also something people are trying to control completely.

 

[frankie_baby]

Not only are smokers killing us they are also killing our beaches.



http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2016241112_coastalcleanup18m.html

thats not because of smokers, thats because of litterers

 

[Steve Youngblood]

In all honesty, when I was a smoker, I actually tended to see the ban as kind of a good thing. I'm not advocating that government necessarily should save people from themselves, but it kind of had that effect to some extent. Several drinks in when I was out at the bar with an ashtray in front of me, I tended to get kind of reckless with rationing out my cigarettes and would gravitate towards chain smoking. Having to actually get up and walk outside the establishment was beneficial to my lungs and my wallet.

Sadly, that inclination towards chain smoking wasn't exclusive to just alcohol. I tended to do the same thing if I was at a diner drinking coffee, for instance.

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

Stop driving cars please.

Jesus dude.. you just used an exact example I said didn't relate well.. because transportation serves a purpose in society.. your smoking doesn't.

But then again, I support legislation that forces us to drive less polutting vehicles.. so your lame analogy fails on multiple levels.

I love how demonized smoking has become.

So do I!! I love it. Smoking is absolutely fucking retarded and should be demonized. There is no reason not to demonize the disgusting habit.

I see insanely fat 10 year olds waddling down the street

I also find fat people disgusting.. do I get a cookie?

 

[eastmen]

Stop driving cars please. Our environment is environment and health is going to shit because of people's addiction to driving. Get a bike asshole! Really, I love how demonized smoking has become. Radio littered with anti-smoking teen ads while I see insanely fat 10 year olds waddling down the street. When smoking is banned everywhere you guys will be fucked to find out there is a ton of shit you just can't do anything about, while you spent all of this time bitching about smoking when you could just make a choice and avoid it.

I'm not sure what the problem is.

Smoking isn't illegal but there are common spaces where it is illegal to smoke now. This is no diffrent than alot of other laws.

I can walk around my house and my back yard with no shirt on or shoes. But if I go to a resturant I wont be allowed in.


I am a cigar smoker , but even I hated going to resturants and smelling smoke every where and having it in the air.

I'm certianly for dedicated places where you can smoke . I like cigar bars , in fact JR cigars had a great steak house where people could smoke cigars.

The real problem si that you can't make a law fair. Why does Bar A get to have smokers and Bar B doesn't ?

The only fair thing to do is ban smoking in all resturants. If you want to smoke do it before or after your meal outside.

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

Not only are smokers killing us they are also killing our beaches.


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2016241112_coastalcleanup18m.html

That's another "rude as shit" aspect of smokers.. they almost all throw their cigarette butts out of their cars.. or on sidewalks.. WTF, the world isn't your garbage can you dirty fucks.

"But cigarette butts stink, I don't want them in my cars ash tray." Jesus fucking asshole christ.. how is any of this acceptable whatsoever in our society?

Like I said.. mass delusion. These people should be getting demonized even MORE than they are.

 

[Raist]

Smoking bans have been around for ages in Europe. Don't really mind it as a smoker. If you want a fag, go outside and that's it.

Spoiler

But then I moved to England

Not only are smokers killing us they are also killing our beaches.



http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2016241112_coastalcleanup18m.html

Except that cigarettes butts are quite smaller, not to mention the fact that they're made of paper and cotton-like stuff. Not aluminuim or plastic.

 

[nateeasy]

Smoking bans have been around for ages in Europe. Don't really mind it as a smoker. If you want a fag, go outside and that's it.

Spoiler

But then I moved to England

Except that cigarettes butts are quite smaller, not to mention the fact that they're made of paper and cotton-like stuff. Not aluminuim or plastic.

Um that cotton like stuff is made out of plastic

 

[Prez]

its anecdotal, i've only been in a few European countries (France, Belgium, Germany, Czech Republic, Netherlands). I could also be swayed that its been quite a while since i've been in a bar with smoking in the US and going to Europe it was a shock.

In the past few years smoking has been banned in all businesses in quite a few countries. In Belgium less than 3 months ago smoking has been banned in every bar, no exception. Same for other European countries. Most bans were imposed in 2007 and 2008, so if you've been to these countries before then, a lot has changed.

http://www.epha.org/a/1941

I'm just quoting the countries you've been to. The article covers more European countries.

Belgium
Since January 2006, Belgium has banned smoking in all enclosed workplaces. Smoking will only be allowed in designated areas. However, employers are not obliged to create such areas.

Since January 2007, Belgium allowed smoking in restaurants in separate rooms where no food was served. Bars and cafés were not yet affected by the ban but were required to provide adequate ventilation and a non-smoking zone to their clients.

From 1 July 2011, Belgium will ban smoking in all public places, including cafés, bars and nightclubs. Smokers will be allowed to smoke in a separate room were no drink or food is served.

Czech Republic
In April 2007, the Parliament passed an anti-smoking bill ought to limit smoking in restaurants and other public areas. Separate premises in restaurants, cafes and bars will have to be reserved for smokers.

France
On 1 February 2007 France prohibited smoking in public places, including offices and schools. Since 2008, the ban was extend to cover all public places including amongst others, restaurants, dance clubs and cafes.

Germany
On 22 March 2007, Germany’s federal states agreed to ban smoking in restaurants and pubs, but allows exemptions for small bars and premises with separate smoking rooms. This proposed ban will have to be approved by each of the sixteen state parliaments before it can come into force.

Berlin is set to be the first city to inforce the ban on smoking in public buildings, as well as bars and restaurants.

On the 27 April 2007, the Federal Health Minister and the Federal Consumer Affairs Minister of Germany introduced a bill to ban smoking in buses, trains, taxis, stations and Federal government buildings as of 1 September 2007, while still providing the option for separate smoking rooms. The sale of cigarettes will also be prohibited to persons under 18.

Netherlands
A complete ban at workplaces has been implemented in the Netherlands since 2004. The law was expanded in 2008 to cover restaurants, cafes, nighclubs and bars. Small bars and cafes that do not have employees are exempted from the legislation (the only obligation is for them to post signes that smoking is allowed).

 

[frankie_baby]

That's another "rude as shit" aspect of smokers.. they almost all throw their cigarette butts out of their cars.. or on sidewalks.. WTF, the world isn't your garbage can you dirty fucks.

"But cigarette butts stink, I don't want them in my cars ash tray." Jesus fucking asshole christ.. how is any of this acceptable whatsoever in our society?

Like I said.. mass delusion. These people should be getting demonized even MORE than they are.

so its not just smokers that drop litter, in fact i'd say the worst aint smokers its people that chew gum, at least fag butts can be swept up, chewing gum sticks for years

 

[Raist]

Um that cotton like stuff is made out of plastic

Cellulose acetate, yes. I was talking about plastic bags and the like, which is far nastier.
Point is, this has nothing to do with being a smoker or not.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

What do you think about the government telling private businesses other things? For example that they are not allowed to put toxic ingredients into food (well, in the US they are, but in other civlised countries they aren't). Or what about people not being allowed to go into restaurants naked?

Terrible comparison.

The toxic food could have immediate harm to you and is much worse than sitting in a room of smoke.

The naked part, well yeah, the government shouldn't have a say in telling businesses whether or not people can go their clothed. I'd hang out with my wang out if I could.

 

[nateeasy]

Um that cotton like stuff is made out of plastic

The core of most cigarette filters -- the part that looks like white cotton, is actually a form of plastic called cellulose acetate. By itself, cellulose acetate is very slow to degrade in our environment. Depending on the conditions of the area the cigarette butt is discarded in, it can take 18 months to 10 years for a cigarette filter to decompose. But that isn't the worst of it. Used cigarette filters are full of toxins known as tar, and those chemicals leach into the ground and waterways, damaging living organisms that contact them. And, most filters are discarded with bits of tobacco still attached to them as well, further polluting our environment with nicotine.

http://quitsmoking.about.com/od/cigaretteingredients/a/ciglitter.htm

 

[Shiggy]

Terrible comparison.

The toxic food could have immediate harm to you and is much worse than sitting in a room of smoke.

Depends on what it is. Smoking can also have an immediate effect on you. Nonetheless, it's just other things the government does not allow to happen in private businesses for a reason. That's why we've got the state, in a civilised country it's meant to protect our rights (with one being health) and set laws for what is allowed based on the current conventions.

So its not just smokers that drop litter, in fact i'd say the worst aint smokers its people that chew gum, at least fag butts can be swept up, chewing gum sticks for years

Chewing gum has no effects on health of others in restaurants or public places, does it? And you know, in most places you are not allowed to drop your chewing gum either?

 

[Raist]

http://quitsmoking.about.com/od/cigaretteingredients/a/ciglitter.htm

See my post above. I mean if you want to compare that to your average plastic bag or soda can which sticks around for hundreds of years, go for it.

 

[eastmen]

Wouldn't be shocked if smoking became illegal in 15-20 years.

The next move other than more taxes is to raise the legal age of buying smokes. Most likely to 21 from 18 here in the states. This will restrict more people from having them. Everyone I know started smoking in highschool or college.

Right now at 18 its easy for some highschool seniors to legaly buy them. They can buy cartons and sell them to younger class mates to support smoking habbits. Thats what some of my friends used to do. They could also just buy them for friends.

At 21 years of age you'd basicly wipe out all teenage smokers and you'd be able to stomp out a few years worth of college kids.


I don't think they will ever making smoking illegal , i just think that it will become so expensive and your ability to get them diminishing with new generations that smoking will be phased out.

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

Terrible comparison.

The toxic food could have immediate harm to you and is much worse than sitting in a room of smoke.

No it's not a terrible comparison. It's a decent and direct comparison. Harmful chemicals in food also don't necessarily have an immediate effect on you.

And cigarette smoke can and does have a quite immediate effect on people.

My eyes, nose, and throat immediately become irritated around cigarette smokes. How is that not an immediate effect?

But either way.. can I go poison myself somewhere with fatty food? Drink alcohol to excess? Sure.. that's entirely separate from expecting an establishment to provide me with clean air to breath. And either way, I do not want fatty food to be illegal.. and I want cigarette smoking in public to be illegal. So analogy away.. it won't really matter.. you could find something analogous, but if the majority of people don't have a problem with it.. is it really analogous?

The majority of people DO have a problem with cigarette smoking in public. Which is why the laws are changing or have changed. Progress.

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

so its not just smokers that drop litter, in fact i'd say the worst aint smokers its people that chew gum, at least fag butts can be swept up, chewing gum sticks for years

Yeah, people who would put chewing gum under a table or something are also rude idiots.

But that's generally the behavior of children, not adults.

It's quite comparable to how smokers act when it concerns their habit, like bratty children.

 

[Prez]

Do people forget the crazy amount of money the government earns in taxes on cigarettes? Wouldn't all that money cover all the extra costs in healthcare/litter removal and then some?

Honestly, some of that tax money could be used to provide more trash cans with ashtrays.

edit: in Belgium the government collects $3.5 per pack of cigarettes. I guess that's much more than the US collects.

 

[radioheadrule83]

I won't say whether or not smoking bans are good or bad for businesses.

I will say that in absolutely every area I've ever heard about implementing a smoking ban, the following has happened:

1) Many people, maybe even a majority, complain that it is unfair and unnecessary and their rights etc. I am not evaluating this claim, simply saying that the claim is made.
2) The ban gets passed anyway.
3) It instantly drops off the public consciousness, no one ever really cares five seconds later, and no attempts are ever made to undo the ban.
4) A year or two later people say "Remember when people used to smoke in restaurants and bars? Holy fuck, wasn't that like in the 80s or something?" and then go on with their day.

Pretty much what happened in the UK. I don't miss people smoking in pubs and restaurants I've gotta say. It helped my mother kick the habit too.

 

[kamspy]

I eat out far less than I use to because I'm a smoker. The after meal cigarette is the most desirable cigarette in my addiction. Even more so than sex because I usually pass out before I get a chance to light up.

So yeah, saved a ton of money on eating out because of this stupid, horrible, awful law. Also found a bunch of awesome recipes and am now able it imitate almost all my favorite dishes I ordered from restaurants.

 

[demon]

nvidia_whore was raped as a child by the Marlboro man, I'm sure of it. I haven't smoked in four days, but I'll light one up in honor of you man, and be sure to flick the butt out the car window into a group of handicapped children.

 

[Shiggy]

Do people forget the crazy amount of money the government earns in taxes on cigarettes? Wouldn't all that money cover all the extra costs in healthcare/litter removal and then some?

Sadly not.

 

[Frank "Trashman" Reynolds]

lol, apparently he's not allowed to smoke there - and has no problem with that...

I don't have a problem with that. If smoking isn't allowed somewhere, and it was THAT important to me, I would find somewhere else that did allow it. Unfortunately that won't be a reality because of you whiny asses.

 

[reilo]

Terrible comparison.

The toxic food could have immediate harm to you and is much worse than sitting in a room of smoke.

The naked part, well yeah, the government shouldn't have a say in telling businesses whether or not people can go their clothed. I'd hang out with my wang out if I could.

Establishments that serve alcohol are also sometimes required by law to quit serving a patron if they are deemed too intoxicated. Some laws even go as far as requiring the establishment to call a cab for the patron and not allow them to drive home drunk, otherwise they can be held liable.

 

[Raist]

Sadly not.

Oh please. It's bullshit and you know it. If governments were that concerned about healthcare costs related to smoking, they'd ban cigarettes or at least make then 10 times nore expensive.

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

nvidia_whore was raped as a child by the Marlboro man, I'm sure of it. I haven't smoked in four days, but I'll light one up in honor of you man, and be sure to flick the butt out the car window into a group of handicapped children.

Nah, I'm just constantly annoyed by smokers.. since it's quite difficult to go anywhere and not have to deal with cigarette smoke.

I'm also just a bit of a judgmental asshole. *shrug*

 

[Shiggy]

Oh please. It's bullshit and you know it. If governments were that concerned about healthcare costs related to smoking, they'd ban cigarettes or at least make then 10 times nore expensive.

You obviously haven't heard about externalities, have you? The health care for smokers costs more than the state gets through taxes, various studies revealed that.

 

[frankie_baby]

The next move other than more taxes is to raise the legal age of buying smokes. Most likely to 21 from 18 here in the states. This will restrict more people from having them. Everyone I know started smoking in highschool or college.

Right now at 18 its easy for some highschool seniors to legaly buy them. They can buy cartons and sell them to younger class mates to support smoking habbits. Thats what some of my friends used to do. They could also just buy them for friends.

At 21 years of age you'd basicly wipe out all teenage smokers and you'd be able to stomp out a few years worth of college kids.


I don't think they will ever making smoking illegal , i just think that it will become so expensive and your ability to get them diminishing with new generations that smoking will be phased out.

they raised it from 16 to 18 in the uk a couple of years ago, personally i thought that was out of order as it then meant loads of perfectly legal smokers had to resort to illegal methods to carry on smoking, however there is no chance they'd raise it any higher here now it would be shot down in a second on human rights or age discrimination grounds or something

 

[Prez]

Sadly not.

I guess that depends on how much taxes on cigarettes are. It's probably much less in the US than most European countries. In Belgium there's 60% tax on cigarettes, which means that the government collects $3.7 from each $6 pack.

 

[krypt0nian]

I hope and pray that this is the thread that everyone remembers as the one where Frank "Trashman" Reynolds went batshit insane.

 

[frankie_baby]

You obviously haven't heard about externalities, have you? The health care for smokers costs more than the state gets through taxes, various studies revealed that.

have they?

 

[jim-jam bongs]

I won't say whether or not smoking bans are good or bad for businesses.

I will say that in absolutely every area I've ever heard about implementing a smoking ban, the following has happened:

1) Many people, maybe even a majority, complain that it is unfair and unnecessary and their rights etc. I am not evaluating this claim, simply saying that the claim is made.
2) The ban gets passed anyway.
3) It instantly drops off the public consciousness, no one ever really cares five seconds later, and no attempts are ever made to undo the ban.
4) A year or two later people say "Remember when people used to smoke in restaurants and bars? Holy fuck, wasn't that like in the 80s or something?" and then go on with their day.

What it reminds me of is, actually, legalizing gay marriage. I know the two issues aren't equivalent, but in terms of the ferocity of protest before hand and the speed with which people stop caring once it does happen.

As a smoker for over 15 years who lives in a state with a total indoor smoking ban I can say that this is exactly right. A lot of establishments made a fuss about it, but it ended up being a good thing for everyone as it prompted them to modernise their ventilation and outdoor areas so that they were able to provide legal smoking areas on their premises.

Edit: oh this has predictably become a referendum on smoking. Fair enough.

 

[kamspy]

The decision should be left up to the business. If a restaurant offers a smoking section and you don't want to be around smoke, don't eat there. Same for working at a restaurant.

How is this unfair in any way, shape or form?

 

[joelseph]

Smoking bans were a good thing for New York City. If they can do it, everybody can.

Never chance New York people.

 

[muu]

I guess that depends on how much taxes on cigarettes are. It's probably much less in the US than most European countries. In Belgium there's 60% tax on cigarettes, which means that the government collects $3.7 from each $6 pack.

Dunno the actual rates but it depends on the state, for sure. Down in Kentucky my boss routinely stopped by for $20 cartons; it's probably double that in Oregon, and I found out it's around 8 bucks a pack in Washington.

 

[Hylian7]

so its not just smokers that drop litter, in fact i'd say the worst aint smokers its people that chew gum, at least fag butts can be swept up, chewing gum sticks for years

Chewing gum doesn't start fires.....

 

[Shiggy]

The decision should be left up to the business. If a restaurant offers a smoking section and you don't want to be around smoke, don't eat there. Same for working at a restaurant.

How is this unfair in any way, shape or form?

As already said, this did not work. Otherwise private businesses should not be bound to any sort of laws...why not allow them to put in toxic ingredients? I don't know whether you are from a Western country, but at least from where I come the state is meant to protect the health of its citizens. If they want to go to a restaurant, they should not be harmed by others, be it either direct violence or toxic smoke.

 

[Prez]

You obviously haven't heard about externalities, have you? The health care for smokers costs more than the state gets through taxes, various studies revealed that.

I'm very sure that you've never read a single article about such a study. There are studies for any argument on the planet that prove both sides right. You use that fact to create an argument and to support that argument you will now look up a study that proves your point and surely you will find one. But before you posted the above, you have probably never read an article about it.

Many people use the same bs argument in pretty much every discussion, so it's nothing personal.

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

The decision should be left up to the business. If a restaurant offers a smoking section and you don't want to be around smoke, don't eat there. Same for working at a restaurant.

How is this unfair in any way, shape or form?

It's not really that unfair.

It's just not what the majority of people want.

People keep talking about "the government" passing laws.. I'm not sure where you guys live, but here in Washington State it was the voters who passed the Statewide ban.. by a fairly large majority, not "the government."

 

[kamspy]

As already said, this did not work. Otherwise private businesses should not be bound to any sort of laws...why not allow them to put in toxic ingredients? I don't know whether you are from a Western country, but at least from where I come the state is meant to protect the health of its citizens. If they want to go to a restaurant, they should not be harmed by others, be it either direct violence or toxic smoke.

I disagree. The risk is easily avoided by people who wish to do so.

By your measure, cigarettes should outlawed completely. Along with everything else with adverse health effects.

I live in the US.

It's not really that unfair.

It's just not what the majority of people want.

People keep talking about "the government" passing laws.. I'm not sure where you guys live, but here in Washington State it was the voters who passed the Statewide ban.. by a fairly large majority, not "the government."

This is a case of democracy failing personal freedoms. It happens from time to time.

 

[frankie_baby]

can i just point out smokers die younger therefore saving the government a small fortune in pensions and also meaning non smokers have more money in their private pensions as its being shared out among less people

 

[Hylian7]

Hope they ban it from people smoking in the streets too.
Hate when I have a smoker walking in front of me,
and the smoke just keeps going in my face.
usually I have to hold my breath and pass them.

Not sure if any other people have this issue,
but the slightest hint of tabacco smoke hurts my nasal passages.
Nothing else does this. (never inhaled poison, so not sure about"nothing")

And yeah, live in Vancouver,
glad they don't smoke in restaurants and bars anymore.

I think smokers that want to smoke anywhere,
are just selfish people that don't care about harming others.

Holy shit this. I really hate it when assholes walk past me when I'm walking to my classes on campus. I try to hold my breath but it's never enough. What's worse is when they blow smoke right in fucking front of me (as in walking toward about to walk past me).

I disagree. The risk is easily avoided by people who wish to do so.

By your measure, cigarettes should outlawed completely. Along with everything else with adverse health effects.

I live in the US.



This is a case of democracy failing personal freedoms. It happens from time to time.

Bullshit, see the post I quoted above.

 

[Prez]

I disagree. The risk is easily avoided by people who wish to do so.

By your measure, cigarettes should outlawed completely. Along with everything else with adverse health effects.

I live in the US.

So you're saying we should ban oil and fast food as well?

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

This is a case of democracy failing personal freedoms. It happens from time to time.

People who smoke infringe on the freedoms of everyone around them.

So the net result of a smoking ban in a public place would be to increase freedoms, because smokers are a small minority.

The only "freedom" being infringed on would be the "freedom" of the business owner to allow something inside their establishment. To that I simply say tough shit. Not sure what else to say, there is no ingrained right to allow smoking cigarettes inside of a business.. so you are at the whim of the people voting on such laws.

And you have the right to attempt to get such laws overturned or modified. To that I say, good luck to you.. because you are in the minority, and the "right" you are asking for is not granted to you by the constitution, so you don't have protection under the law to do anything other than complain, or attempt to get different laws passed.

 

[Shiggy]

I disagree. The risk is easily avoided by people who wish to do so.

By your measure, cigarettes should outlawed completely. Along with everything else with adverse health effects.

I live in the US.

I think people are free to smoke. It's just when other people are impacted by that, the state needs to step in. I don't know whether the US state takes that responsibility. In my country the state weighs up between personal freedom and adverse impacts on others - that's why I am not allowed to shoot someone else even if I wanted to do so. For the same reason others are not allowed to smoke in restaurants apart from seperate rooms.


@Stabbie
Alright, different studies say different things based on whether a tobacco or a pharmaceutical company funds it.