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Snowden took literally everything when he left. Shit is getting real.

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It's amazing how this thing makes the NSA look incredibly incompetent and incredibly scary at the same time.

Until last year, NASA did not encrypt its laptops. It loses about fifty laptops a year. They can't really be sure because up until last year they didn't practice asset management or remote auditing either.

The perception of Top Secret-type organisations as hyper secure fortresses of whisper-filled corridors and codenames and firewalls and ten proxies is greatly misplaced.
 
The answers to all my fellow conspiricy theorists lies in the possession of Snowden, literally.

I'm sure conspiracy theorists already have Snowden pegged as a planned leak for disinformation purposes.
 
Until last year, NASA did not encrypt its laptops. It loses about fifty laptops a year. They can't really be sure because up until last year they didn't practice asset management or remote auditing either.

The perception of Top Secret-type organisations as hyper secure fortresses of whisper-filled corridors and codenames and firewalls and ten proxies is greatly misplaced.

..annd the secret service gets busted with strippers.

I mean its just not the world old ike told us about.
 
You particularly didn't prove that the individuals and organisations in question have no way of safeguarding the information. You have no knowledge of how they operate - you simply cannot prove that.

Transporting encrypted data alongside a written password FOR that encrypted data, while also using someone with whom they(Greenwald) are in a relationship as mule is TERRIBLE tradecraft. It is a fantastic example of their inability to handle the data.

And getting off track, you seem to be implying that the TLAs from which this information originated are capable of safeguarding this information. The very fact we're having this discussion proves that is obviously not the case. Therefore the "risk" that you are implying to exist already exists, making the impact of Snowden's allegations precisely zero.

Risk exists in active programs, HUMINT especially, but releasing this data to incompetent recipients artificially increases that risk for no constructive purpose other than perhaps revenge. Your argument is that risk exists, therefore no methods should be taken to mitigate that risk? Also, it is practically impossible to ward against insider threat. I will admit, the NSA did a spectacularly terrible job compartmentalizing their data. They however are not the ones that were handing it out like candy.

You should be discussing the real impact of the releases, not hypothetical risks - you've clearly never done an Impact Assessment or Risk Assessment.

That would be a different thread, this thread is generated by the possibility of releases beyond what we have seen. If you would like to talk about your time generating such assessments please go ahead.


Risk is inherent. I direct you back to my earlier posts. At what point does the risk become unacceptable?
At the point where it is no longer constructive.
 
Transporting encrypted data alongside a written password FOR that encrypted data, while also using someone with whom they(Greenwald) are in a relationship as mule is TERRIBLE tradecraft. It is a fantastic example of their inability to handle the data.

Hahah, you need to read more carefully fella. Miranda was carrying one password for one of his fifty-eight thousand encrypted files. Miranda had to be detained under our draconian anti-terror laws and interrogated for hours - threatened with detention and deportation - before he handed over the passwords for the rest of the material.

Tradecraft? Please stop using such childish terms - this isn't a Tom Clancy (god rest him) novel. We talk in terms of information assurance, hazard and risk.

Risk exists in active programs, HUMINT especially, but releasing this data to incompetent recipients artificially increases that risk for no constructive purpose other than perhaps revenge. Your argument is that risk exists, therefore no methods should be taken to mitigate that risk? Also, it is practically impossible to ward against insider threat. I will admit, the NSA did a spectacularly terrible job compartmentalizing their data. They however are not the ones that were handing it out like candy.

My straw man alarm just exploded. Let's count.

1) "Incompetent recipients"
2) "No constructive purpose"
3) "Your argument is..."
4) "It is practically impossible..."
5) "They...were handing it out like candy"

Five in almost as many sentences. For bonus points you threw in an ad hominem attack implying Snowden's sole motivation was revenge, despite evidence to the contrary. For the jackpot you first attack me for, in your eyes, suggesting that "no methods should be taken to mitigate [inherent] risk", and then suggesting precisely the same thing by stating (falsely) that "it is practically impossible to ward against insider threat".

If ever there is a brain olympics, you will take the gold in the mental gymnastics. Staggering levels of cognitive dissonance on display there.

You've failed to prove incompetence (failed even to correctly read your own evidence), you've outright rejected any possibility of positive effect or ethical motivation, you've completely misunderstood my argument, you've mis-represented the nature of information assurance and you've mis-represented the actions of the graun and co.

Spectacular.

At the point where it is no longer constructive.

And what is that point? Who is the arbiter of the value of a leak? How would one ascertain that value without, in fact, leaking it? This implies that a zero-impact leak of a zero-impact but outright illegal programme would be unethical - is that really your stance?
 
It'd be extrajudicial murder, and he's still a US citizen. More pragmatically, there's no point. The information's out. You'd just create a Streisand effect of unprecedented proportions. Just look how much airtime that blowhard Assange still gets, and he probably wasn't even targeted by the US.?

Thanks :]
 
It was an above top secret military base where they tested and developed cutting edge supersonic jets during the Cold War, also, where they would test Soviet jets, reverse engineer etc. They developed the SR71 Blackbird because of what they did at Area 51.

The only problem is, Americans love a good conspiracy and believe it was UFO's as opposed to top secret aviation.
UFO is just top secret aviation/unexplained crap by its definition.

And yes he is a traitor. But im more mad the idiotic government would let it happen. But as soon as the story dies, some random day he will catch a bullet/car crash and no one will care.
 
Watch most of it be super boring.
This is the real reason the leaks come out so slowly. and Snowden even personally cataloged everything he leaked! If he'd dumped it wholesale like Manning we'd probably never get to the bottom of it.

So, much respect. :lol at the notion of him being a traitor.

As for "literally everything", that reads like an onion article.
 
I got some bad news guys. I just got off the phone with this cat and he confirmed it,
Half Life 3 has been cancelled
.
 
Hahah, you need to read more carefully fella. Miranda was carrying one password for one of his fifty-eight thousand encrypted files. Miranda had to be detained under our draconian anti-terror laws and interrogated for hours - threatened with detention and deportation - before he handed over the passwords for the rest of the material.

The fact remains that he encrypted data, then carried the code needed to decrypt that data on him. Had he not been affiliated with greenwald, and not used such poor tradecraft he would have never been spotted.

Tradecraft? Please stop using such childish terms - this isn't a Tom Clancy (god rest him) novel. We talk in terms of information assurance, hazard and risk.

Who pray tell is "we"? Do understand that whoever you speak for is not the sole adjudicator of intelligence taxonomy.

My straw man alarm just exploded. Let's count.

1) "Incompetent recipients"
2) "No constructive purpose"
3) "Your argument is..."
4) "It is practically impossible..."
5) "They...were handing it out like candy"

Five in almost as many sentences. For bonus points you threw in an ad hominem attack implying Snowden's sole motivation was revenge, despite evidence to the contrary. For the jackpot you first attack me for, in your eyes, suggesting that "no methods should be taken to mitigate [inherent] risk", and then suggesting precisely the same thing by stating (falsely) that "it is practically impossible to ward against insider threat".

I attack only your argument (I'm sure you're a lovely, if somewhat excitable person.) that since risk exists further risk is acceptable in the pursuit of nebulous goals. The release of information related to U.S and UK source operations does not serve Snowden's stated purposes.

If ever there is a brain olympics, you will take the gold in the mental gymnastics. Staggering levels of cognitive dissonance on display there.

Maybe I was a bit quick with "lovely person".

You've failed to prove incompetence (failed even to correctly read your own evidence), you've outright rejected any possibility of positive effect or ethical motivation, you've completely misunderstood my argument, you've mis-represented the nature of information assurance and you've mis-represented the actions of the graun and co.

I tend to mistrust businesses, that does extend to the entertainment industry yes. If you place any trust in the ethical motivations of people in the press then I applaud your faith in humanity. Though I do disagree, Greenwald's book deal might also disagree.

And what is that point? Who is the arbiter of the value of a leak? How would one ascertain that value without, in fact, leaking it? This implies that a zero-impact leak of a zero-impact but outright illegal programme would be unethical - is that really your stance?
I have supported the release of documentation of illegal passive collections techniques. The risk is embarrassment only. I draw the line at information releases or misuse that places intelligence personnel at risk for the purpose of enriching the guardian or securing a dacha for Snowden.
 
Is it fucked up that I almost want someone to kill him so that the doomsday thing will get triggered and release everything?
 
He can't be called a traitor for leaking and blowing the whistle on the governments corrupt dealings and spying on its own people... who knows what they can do with that info and control.

However if he ever compromises the security of people and the nation then I'm not even what American in his right mind would still defend him. Lets see how history plays out.
 
Good. So far he's been very circumspect in working with journalists to release the information properly. The surveillance state is a bigger threat to public interest than anything that could be leaked. Enough with trying to scare the American public into believing that the secret, unfettered, all encompassing draconian collection of personal information is somehow a protection of freedom rather than a wholesale disregard for it.
 
Is it fucked up that I almost want someone to kill him so that the doomsday thing will get triggered and release everything?
Yes, it is.

You need a little patience, son! All the good stuff (i.e. necessary leaks to preserve the democracy) is coming regardless.
 
Can he leak something useful for once?

Whats in area 51, where the fuck is tupac, how many bigfoots are there, loch ness monster, is george bush a reptilian, etc. shit like that. Always some boring "we spied on everyone and we know everything about every nations politics" or something horribly boring like that. I don't care that obama knows what porn I look at or what I said to my buddy the other day over the phone, I wanna know if the moon landing was real or if jesus was black.
 
Yes, it is.

You need a little patience, son! All the good stuff (i.e. necessary leaks to preserve the democracy) is coming regardless.
Good thing I said almost. *backpedal backpedal*

And yeah, probably. But he only has one year of asylum in Russia (not sure how much is left by now) and there is some chance that a deal is made for him to come back to the US. Unlikely, but who knows.
 
Can he leak something useful for once?

Whats in area 51, where the fuck is tupac, how many bigfoots are there, loch ness monster, is george bush a reptilian, etc. shit like that. Always some boring "we spied on everyone and we know everything about every nations politics" or something horribly boring like that. I don't care that obama knows what porn I look at or what I said to my buddy the other day over the phone, I wanna know if the moon landing was real or if jesus was black.

aliens dead 3 1 yes
 
hope he has and leaks the following:

who killed JFK
proof of aliens existence

the rest of spying on other countries is boring. bring out the big guns, leak that shit!
 
Outrageous affront that compromises our ability to ascertain and eliminate threats. Undoubtedly, our enemies have adapted to avoid legally sound techniques developed and honed by NSA officials to penetrate and procure their most cherished info. Moreover, there's not a smidgen of doubt that Snowden gave the Soviets and Chinese our most valued informational, humnit, and opsec resources. Thus, if Obama were any kind of chief executive, one who not only swore an oath to the Constitution but actually believed in the principles behind it, then there's only viable option left and that is to follow the Anwar al-Awlaki precendent

mq-1_predator-drone-1.jpg

You think killing him would do anything? He undoubtedly has contingency plans in case of his untimely demise.
 
What if China steps up and welcomes Snowden in their country sort of like a guest of honor, would that trigger a war (or Russia for that matter)?
 
You think killing him would do anything? He undoubtedly has contingency plans in case of his untimely demise.
As in "release all of it", absolutely. They know it, too, I assume that's the only reason he's still breathing. I mean, the NSA always knew what he took, this is nothing new. They're just now admitting to it is all.
 
He can't be called a traitor for leaking and blowing the whistle on the governments corrupt dealings and spying on its own people... who knows what they can do with that info and control.

However if he ever compromises the security of people and the nation then I'm not even what American in his right mind would still defend him. Lets see how history plays out.
More or less my thoughts on the matter. If he's the arch-traitor that the intelligence services are scrambling to typecast him as, they'll have far more ammunition than a 60 minutes puff piece and a Telegraph article that subtly distorts the truth. They're not relying on innuendo and spin out of choice, people. That's what they've got to work with.
 
I doubt he has anything useful. Do you REALLY think Putin (who is about as subtle as a sledgehammer with his distaste of the US and the West in general) would let the opportunity of getting juicy details on the NSA for the Russian FSB?

Come on, now.
 
You know...

In Dead or Alive, there was a part where Cam'Ron sounded like he was about to say somebody's name but it was simply erased off the song.

I know it wasn't the clean version, because he swore right before it.

It is time to put this mystery to rest.
 
Photo of the office after Snowden left.

empty-office-space.jpg

You have to provide more context than that. What do you mean the office after Snowden left??

Like the NSA was like hey media come take pictures of where Snowden top secretly worked so you can photograph how we took all the desks and computers and stuff and so it's super secure and stuff.

Please provide more info with this photo because it feels like malarkey.
 
Hope he knows where my keys are.

You have to provide more context than that. What do you mean the office after Snowden left??

Like the NSA was like hey media come take pictures of where Snowden top secretly worked so you can photograph how we took all the desks and computers and stuff and so it's super secure and stuff.

Please provide more info with this photo because it feels like malarkey.

I think something flew over your head, maybe.
 
What if China steps up and welcomes Snowden in their country sort of like a guest of honor, would that trigger a war (or Russia for that matter)?
Of course not.
There were legit spies who did demonstrable damage that were caught in the US and that didn't trigger a war.

That hysterical rhetoric and persecution is mostly about deterring the next would be whistleblower.
 
I have mixed feelings about this whole thing- on one hand Snowden made me realize my 4th amendment rights were being violated by the NSA and on the other hand he may have exposed people to being harmed.

He's exposed American's to being harmed probably.

He's probably stopped a good few people being harmed by Americans, for a little while at least.
 
You have to provide more context than that. What do you mean the office after Snowden left??

Like the NSA was like hey media come take pictures of where Snowden top secretly worked so you can photograph how we took all the desks and computers and stuff and so it's super secure and stuff.

Please provide more info with this photo because it feels like malarkey.

It was a joke. Implying "literally everything" meant the desks, staplers, people, etc.
 
UFOs and Cold War paranoia. I wasn't born the first time so it feels good to have a chance to live through America going stir crazy. At least there are no nukes involved in this round, but I'm sure "the Soviets" will see about that.
 
Guys, what if Snowden is actually an American patriot in a dangerous undercover mission that involves smearing his own name for the good of the country? What if he's not destroying America... but saving it?

tumblr_mqw32uHwxv1r4vpxio1_500.jpg


The-boss.jpg


!?

Hope nobody made this joke yet
 
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