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[dancrane212]

His speech was fine.

https://80.lv/articles/performancematters-sometimes-yes/

Very interesting view on the Sag-Aftra strike. I feel like people are very one sided when it comes to the Sag aftra strike.

The stuff about locking devs out of doing little voice rolls (and mo-cap if I remember right as something the union is pushing for) is disappointing. I understand the reasoning but I can see why it could draw ire and pushback from developers.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

It wasnt.

It clearly was. I mean that- it was clear. You don't need a professional in the investigative field to pick up that body language, expressions, passive aggressive tone, etc.

 

[Doopliss]

I really don't think people understand what is really going on here. No one is arguing against that there should be better working conditions for -everyone-. This is not something you need to think about. Unless you're an asshole, if the question is "should poor working conditions <anywhere> be improved?" the answer has to be yes. But saying that, and having an actual movement trying to enact change are two different things. Developers -should- fight for better working conditions. But there is no union, and even among developers they are split between wanting to voice their concerns and just keeping their heads down because they love their jobs more than their personal wellbeing.

Right now the SAG-AFTRA, an actual union, is fighting for the rights of their members. There is an actual movement trying to enact change for one group. No movement exists for the other in question here. Nolan North isn't going to start one. He isn't even a developer. He's just stating what is a known fact to everyone, that there should be better working conditions for everyone, but he stated it in a specific way intended to undermine the current movement by using their tag line and throwing it in their faces. He basically said "You know that Performance Matters thing that's going around lately? Fuck that, this OTHER group, their performance matter MORE! Eat that! Bbl, I got mine, fuck yours!"

It is in fact #AllLivesMatter deflection. It doesn't mean that all lives don't matter. Saying the performance of game developers matter more than voice actors when you know they are using that line to fight for better conditions, you are telling them "yo you're not that important."

Nicely explained. Anyone who doesn't understand why people have a problem with North's speech should read this post.

 

[Darryl M R]

Please inform me how this thread is going to help devs and voice actors.

By having people recognize coded language used to undermine another effort through the narrative that "hey we also have it bad so tough luck." Which is separate from uniting to have a greater voice of change or having a separate effort for advocacy that doesn't include "well we have it worse."

 

[jdmonmou]

I could see how voice actors on strike could take issue with this. North said that the performance of voice actors matters less than the performance of developers. He is agreeing with those critical of the strike since they believe that voice acting isn't important in games which is not true. Both groups need better working conditions - he should just ask Amy Hennig. However, bringing up developers does no one any favors. It's a subterfuge to distract from what the voice actors are trying to accomplish. Nolan North shouldn't have done his colleagues that way. He may have a good gig with Naughty Dog but a lot of other voice actors aren't as fortunate.

 

[Already Torn]

I'm saying that we should focus on the content of the speech or the context of the speech , not go on to wild statements about the president elect of USA and the reason things aren't good.

You can't just make any comparaison and say " hey politics are in our daily lives " . let's focus

There are several direct parallels between American politics and responses to this speech. They can help people understand this situation by comparing it to a situation they're more familiar with.

 

[Synth]

I didn't think of that. That will fix everything.

Very few individual things will "fix everything", so I guess everyone should just sit and wait for everything to fix themselves. That always works.

Look, it's entirely fine if you don't care... but why even bother entering a discussion only to proclaim how little you care about the discussion?

 

[Fliesen]

I agree with this. I think it was a well-delivered speech, and I don't disagree with his stance.

it's said that this has to repeated again and again.
It's not about disagreeing with his stance, hell i agree with his stance. There's games voiced by Troy Baker - who's a great VA, that were kinda mediocre. So it's clearly game creators > voice actors.
But his wording clearly and intentionally undermined his fellow voice actors.

We can argue about how much professional solidarity he should be showing, we can argue that he's probably closer to Naughty Dog creators / devs than he is to random other voice actors. But even then, you don't have to drag anyone down to lift someone you cherish up. It's not a necessity. It's bad form.

 

[Holundrian]

Even if it wasn't, it wasn't useful to cut against the message of Performance Matters. If he wasn't intending to throw the movement under the bus, then he was at the very best incredibly clumsy and unconcerned with the movement, or he would have phrased his message in a way that doesn't make it look selfish.

I wish this was the tone of the conversation.

 

[martino]

Yep, but people here will continue to say it wasn't an attack.

because for majority sympathy for people matter more than ideas they spreads.
sadly even more when it matters.

 

[black070]

Also, completely off topic, but I'm sure your wife doesnt want to hear "yeah I want to thank my wife otherwise she will kill me". I mean, c'mon, I know it was a joke but you could be a little more gracious to her, couldn't you?

Are we seriously going to pick apart literally everything he said ?

 

[Quixz]

Watched the video in the OP and could not find anything wrong with the speech or Nolan.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Apparently many gamers don't understamd coded language or dog whistles.

 

[Raptor]

Even if it wasn't, it wasn't useful to cut against the message of Performance Matters. If he wasn't intending to throw the movement under the bus, then he was at the very best incredibly clumsy and unconcerned with the movement, or he would have phrased his message in a way that doesn't make it look selfish.



R u for rela

He used that as an example cause he is a VA himself, he is using his profession to remark that not only they need better stuff but that everyone else in the bussiness are as important, he even thank them for god sakes at t he end.

Is not hard to understand what he meant by that.

I took it as being humble using his profession as an example to make other part of the whole deal get awareness.

 

[mrlion]

I watched the speech in its entirety and I found no awkward movements or speech whatsoever...perhaps the OP can elaborate a bit?

 

[Memento]

Am I missing something here? I thought it was a great and genuine speech.

People sure do like their controversies...

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Yeah it was weird, I've lost quite some respect for him

He didn't need to come out and support the strike, no. He was under no obligation.
BUT as the most famous VA in the industry, to then say the debs are more important is a slap in the face to those striking

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

Sounds like he's got a different opinion than you and most of the SAG AFTRA voice actors on the subject is all.

"VAs shouldn't have better working conditions." Is a pretty shitty opinion.

 

[DryvBy]

Very few individual things will "fix everything", so I guess everyone should just sit and wait for everything to fix themselves. That always works.

Look, it's entirely fine if you don't care... but why even bother entering a discussion only to proclaim how little you care about the discussion?

My original comment was about separating politics from entertainment. Are you only allowed to enter a thread these days to echo certain opinions?

 

[BlueTsunami]

Apparently many gamers don't understamd coded language or dog whistles.

For some, if its not featured in a seizure inducing QTE, it'll be hard for them to catch. That or they're being obtuse due to their personal opinions on the value of voice acting in games or unions in general (the older, cynical gamers)

 

[Briarios]

Am I missing something here? I thought it was a great and genuine speech.

People sure do like their controversies...

No, you're simply unaware of the continuum the speech was given in - it was a very political speech, which automatically makes it controversial. It can be genuine and controversial simultaneously.

 

[Darryl M R]

Am I missing something here? I thought it was a great and genuine speech.

People sure do like their controversies...

What's up with this thought that you cannot bring up a topic without it being a reason to drum up "controversy" and "drama"

Like this is the most half-ass way to say "Yea I didn't read your argument, I just think you are whining. Piss off."

No one is calling for Nolan's head. People are discussing why his language was coded and polarizing. A topic being controversial does not equate to the OP wanting to stir up shit.

 

[Heckler456]

Apparently many gamers don't understamd coded language or dog whistles.

Jesus christ. Coded language and dog whistles to who exactly? I feel like every so often, some term or whatever creeps into the public consciousness, and people just start applying it wherever they can.

 

[Fliesen]

My original comment was about separating politics from entertainment. Are you only allowed to enter a thread these days to echo certain opinions?

No, but it's generally not appreciated to enter a thread that is about the 'political' implications of Nolan's acceptance speech just to post "nah, let's not"

 

[MadLaughter]

Does anyone have any reactions from other voice actors?

 

[j-wood]

I didn't find it awkward at all.

You have a dude here that has worked with the same developer for over 10 years, so he knows first hand how many extra and hard hours the programmers and artists and everyone there puts in.

He was saying rather than the Voice Actors being like "screw you imma get mine" they should all be banding together for better working conditions, because it's not like a hollywood movie where if a director wants to strike a Tom Cruise movie, they'll just get another director and it'll probably be fine. You don't just get another programmer in game development.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

I really like this voice actor and any criticism of him means you're crazy. Oh god I hope Nolan North doesn't read this thread how does my hair look.

 

[Moon_frogger]

I watched the speech in its entirety and I found no awkward movements or speech whatsoever...perhaps the OP can elaborate a bit?

Perhaps you can read the thread where it's been broken down extensively? The drive by 'I don't get why we are having this conversation' posts are getting a bit ridiculous.

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

Apparently many gamers don't understamd coded language or dog whistles.

That was a dog whistle? It seemed pretty blunt to me.

https://streamable.com/tdzd

This part.

"I'm hearing a lot of talk lately about how '#performanceMatters' - and it does..."
* pause for dramatic effect* - here comes the plot twist!
"... the performance of every designer, every programmer, every artist, every hard working and talented person ..."

how anyone can think of this as unintentional.... if he hadn't been holding the award, he'd have made air quotes around 'performance matters'
all that was missing was a mic-drop.

Guess I'm just too sensitive to dog whistle that I can spot them a mile away. It's pretty obvious what he's trying to say, it's similar to #alllivesmatters with the way it's worded.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

I think his intentions weren't bad, and wanted to acknowledge that everyone is in this together, and without these games there would be no need for voice actors, so he was thankful for the gigs he received. I'm sure the situation would be different if he wasn't getting gigs left and right.

 

[old manatee]

Nolan North tried to hold the door open for me, but I was like 80 feet away so he was just standing there like a goon, and then right as I was getting near he got embarassed and went inside, leaving the door to close right in my face. It was insanely awkward.

 

[Imbarkus]

So much vitriol and rhetoric. I saw, in the speech, an attempt to unite some grups that might otherwise be falling upon each other in conflict when they actually have a shared enemy, or at least shared concerns.

That said, I feel its reasonable speculation to say SAG-AFTRA performers would have a contract tomorrow, complete with all their safety concerns addressed, if they dropped the back-end royalties. Entire development houses contracted to publishers, and certainly most salaried game directors, go without the back-end. If the point of that contract demand was to draw attention to this for everyone, that job is done.

To hold to that demand afterwards, to me, seems to say that voice performers should be guaranteed a back end before anyone else in the industry.

I would also speculate that this SAG-AFTRA stipulation is about more than just the video game industry, as its absence in that line of work may be affecting the union's ability to negotiate this benefit in all the other arenas, TV, movies, animation, that honor it. This just serves to point out how different those unionized industries are with their labor from the largely non-labor-organized video game industry.

Sticky widget. I don't see that Nolan said anything offensive. God, if anything I heard pity for all those hard-working folks with no "voice."

 

[Heckler456]

Does anyone have any reactions from other voice actors?

https://twitter.com/RogerCraigSmith/status/804533788109729792

https://twitter.com/DanielleMcVO/status/804522804200673280

That's all I could find under the hashtag.

Tangentially related, how do you embed a tweet?

 

[GloomyHitsuji]

Is this similar to an actor thanking the behind the scene filmmakers, and saying that without them none of this is possible, and thus deserve more credit?

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Jesus christ. Coded language and dog whistles to who exactly? I feel like every so often, some term or whatever creeps into the public conscience, and people just start applying it wherever they can.

It was a statement of disdain for the union. It was a political statement. His entire statement is loaded with tells about what he is really saying, and to whom.

 

[KevinG]

Loved the speech. He's a man of integrity.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Is this similar to an actor thanking the behind the scene filmmakers, and saying that without them none of this is possible, and thus deserve more credit?

Yes, and the timing is what makes this awkward to folks.

 

[Aeana]

My original comment was about separating politics from entertainment. Are you only allowed to enter a thread these days to echo certain opinions?

You are allowed to have whatever opinion you want, but you need to be prepared to support and substantiate your position. Nobody on this board should have the expectation of not being challenged on their views. If your intention is to drop some hot take and not deal with any blowback then you're certainly going to be surprised.

 

[chris121580]

Perhaps you can read the thread where it's been broken down extensively? The drive by 'I don't get why we are having this conversation' posts are getting a bit ridiculous.

Perhaps people would be more apt to stick around and discuss it if there were less rude responses like this

 

[Synth]

My original comment was about separating politics from entertainment. Are you only allowed to enter a thread these days to echo certain opinions?

Obviously not, but the thread's title and OP go hand-in-hand to define the topic. I do generally keep my entertainment separate from politics... this wouldn't affect my willingness to play a game starring Nolan North, and wouldn't at all effect my enjoyment of one. However, this thread is discussing the political aspect, which you (in your original comment) made it very clear you don't care at all about... so you don't care about this thread's topic. So why would you bother posting to engage those that do?

There's a reason I remarked that about your post and nobody else's. Everyone else, regardless of which side of the discussion they're sitting on, at least has an interest in the discussion. It has nothing to do with agreement.

 

[Venfayth]

He used that as an example cause he is a VA himself, he is using his profession to remark that not only they need better stuff but that everyone else in the bussiness are as important, he even thank them for god sakes at t he end.

Is not hard to understand what he meant by that.

I took it as being humble using his profession as an example to make other part of the whole deal get awareness.

He's not being humble though, for a few reasons. First his message was not phrased in a way to praise voice actors whatsoever, or encourage them to continue fighting for their rights. He diminished himself and his role, instead. He is one of the most well known and paid game VAs and he's diminishing himself in the same speech as saying performance matters un-ironically.

Second, the Performance Matters movement is designed to help VAs who are NOT Nolan North. When he then goes on and undercuts its message, he's not losing anything. He's not taking any risk. He has the clout to get what he wants out of VA roles, but the small VAs don't.

 

[MadLaughter]

Is this similar to an actor thanking the behind the scene filmmakers, and saying that without them none of this is possible, and thus deserve more credit?

Kind of, except he's doing it at the exact moment that his peers are fighting for better working conditions/compensation, and directly invokes their movement and throws it under the bus.

 

[Holundrian]

Yes, and the timing is what makes this awkward to folks.

And it deserves criticism. But honestly that's not the conversation I've been reading here.
In tone it feels rather vindictive than critical but maybe I'm crazy.

https://twitter.com/RogerCraigSmith/status/804533788109729792

https://twitter.com/DanielleMcVO/status/804522804200673280

That's all I could find under the hashtag.

Tangentially related, how do you embed a tweet?

Well how about that, outside of this thread there do exists a world that has multiple perspectives.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

That was a dog whistle? It seemed pretty blunt to me.

Guess I'm just too sensitive to dog whistle that I can spot them a mile away. It's pretty obvious what he's trying to say, it's similar to #alllivesmatters with the way it's worded.

To us it's pretty blatant but tons of this thread apparently doesn't grasp either the context or the language he used to make his speech. The whole thing was textbook dog whistle. Any one who is exposed to that shit can see it a mile away.

Try explaining why #AllLivesMatter is problematic to a bunch of people with no understanding of racialization and tell me the term isn't crafted specifically to be inoffensive at first context.

It's pretty hilarious to me that people think Nolan was beimg genuine and pure hearted. This is classic dismissive "everybody has it hard" bullshit.

 

[mrlion]

Perhaps you can read the thread where it's been broken down extensively? The drive by 'I don't get why we are having this conversation' posts are getting a bit ridiculous.

The OP is trying to create a controversy that doesn't exist. The speech never created it. So the OP can elaborate a bit more as to why its awkward.

 

[Heckler456]

It was a statement of disdain for the union. It was a political statement. His entire statement is loaded with tells about what he is really saying, and to whom.

It absolutely was not. At best, you can say that he disagrees with them. But the fact that you're using hyperbole like "disdain for the union" really shows that you're trying to sell something that's just not there. Dog whistles or not, that's just not an assumption you can rightfully make with what he tells us.

Like, AT WORST, he's using this whole SAG-AFTRA thing as a platform to give developers a voice without any regard to SAG-AFTRA.

 

[AudioEppa]

...This thread is giving me a Russell Westbrook moment


OP, Stop Trippin. There's absolutely nothing wrong with Nolan's speech and you know that.

 

[mrklaw]

There was nothing cringe or awkward about that speech. It was well-delivered.

But it was political, and I can see disagreeing with his stance.

I absolutely took it as a position that voice acting talent doesn't deserve special treatment or back-end royalties, at least, no more than the game developers themselves do.

Do Key Grips and make-up artists get back-end royalties on movies/DVDs? Not saying one is right or wrong, but I assume that the stand that the VA guys are taking is similar to SAG. There is perhaps validity in saying the backroom boys do/don't deserve support on both sides (games & movies/TV)

 

[Fliesen]

Is this similar to an actor thanking the behind the scene filmmakers, and saying that without them none of this is possible, and thus deserve more credit?

It's the same as a famous cinematographer receiving an Oscar, devoting his Oscar speech to writers to the actors and his wife.
And then, out of the blue, saying "and people are right VISION is important... And you know who had great vision? Steven Spielberg and his entire team of producers, but also screenwriters and set designers"
After all, there's nothing to point your camera towards, if there's no actors to film, no sets, no costumes and no director that tells you where to point your lens - we are but tools to these great visionaries"

While the cinematographer's guild is currently on strike under the slogan #Vision_Is_Important to ask for better compensation and better work compensations.

Well how about that, outside of this thread there do exists a world that has multiple perspectives.

You know what people really love? Those who contribute nothing but taking some kind of "can't speak my mind, i'm the victim, help help" stance, portraying posters in this thread as strawmen.

And i was just waiting until someone did a search for the hashtag and dug out these 2 tweets - literally the only ones you'll currently find.
n=2 is a great sample size. Great to draw conclusions from

 

[schaft0620]

He was standing up for Devs and how poorly they are treated not demeaning what's going on (or what was) with voice actors.