So will the other games, that's what happens. Though I would say DS2 has more prominent enemies with grabs.
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So does SOTFS "fix" Dark Souls 2?
- Thread starter Alo0oy
- Start date
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Is not a glitch, just poor boss design.
I found it an interesting challenge having played vanilla DSII but I felt like the changes were less about improving the experience/making it 'more like Dark Souls' and more about just making it more difficult. I accept that some of the mob placements have been improved though and the addition of The Scholar + the DLC areas does make Dark Souls II's story stronger. Overall, it's definitely better but it's not even close to fixing the issues with the game.
neoism
Member
nope vanilla pc version that got everything but the new enemy placement is best version... it never needed fixing.
The other games blend it much better. That oft repeated gif of the Pursuer grab should never happen.
It really feels like the team thought the "difficult" combat was the highlight, and designed every aspect around this premise. In actuality, the game would be better served by favoring the player in that situation so as not to break the illusion.
Well, neither should the ones in any of the other games but 3D grab hitboxes are always going to be wonky if they're going to actually be threatening when used by an enemy.
It illustrates a general intolerance to the game when one enemy's bad hitboxes somehow represents the failing of an entire game. In any other game or genre that would be unreasonable, but in the Souls community it's "acceptable" criticism.
It's that ability to ignore the faults of the other games because another is an easier target, regardless of all the good things DS2 did, that I find personally frustrating.
Lol, "a general intolerance?" What possible reason for that could there be? Serious question.
In actuality, it reflects that such failings are far more present in DS2
Since I already have the game in my library, I started the download, I'll play it tomorrow. The fixed dex scaling bug & (anecdotal) somewhat improved hitboxes should help (I hope they're actually improved & not just some posters here getting lucky).
I hope all the remaining "shortcoming" aren't as bad as I remember, certainly not looking forward to the wonky combat, but I owe it to myself to at least give it a fair chance.
I hope all the remaining "shortcoming" aren't as bad as I remember, certainly not looking forward to the wonky combat, but I owe it to myself to at least give it a fair chance.
I'd sincerely doubt that. It's always the same complaints repeated ad nauseam. "Look at how bad the Pursuer/troll's grab box is! This justifies my general disdain for everything else in the game!"
No... no I'm sorry to say it doesn't. Two bad hitboxes equivocating the failing an entire game is silly. But... that's the general reaction anymore. I'll admit, as a person who likes the game, it has faults. I don't think you can genuinely enjoy something if you can't see the faults in it. But the faults are exaggerated to an extreme that makes it difficult to take the criticism seriously. And it even hurts genuine discourse because it creates a general air of pretty undeserved disdain for a game that has a few minor failings that get constructed as major failings.
I'd say the major failings of DS2 have far less to do with the hitboxes than with the worldbuilding, which is on far shakier ground, and understandably so, given that the game was likely rebuilt from the ground up halfway through development.
Soodanim
Member
I STILL haven't finished DS2 and I got SOTFS on PC release day. Since its release I've probably played 20 different Dark Souls 1 saves. The fundamentals are just that much better. The world, the lack of tracking, the parry window, the lack of movement deadzones and many more things make DS1 the king.
The song demon is pretty much the only design that stuck with me since it's not some generic enemy with a sword and is weird and unsettling enough that I could picture it being in the interesting games in the series. I guess those hand things from the gulch fit into this category too.
Like, Ceaseless Discharge is a garbage fight right? But just look at the fucking thing! That's the last thing I was expecting to find right after another boss. And when you think about its design, its place in the lore, the easter egg way of beating it, yeah it's a shitty fight but at least it's an interesting one. So much of Dark Souls 2's enemy design is just cookie cutter and forgettable
xxRONN1Nxx
Member
I played vanilla and enjoyed it on the 360. I bought SoFS on release on ps4. I've put over 200+ hours into it. I'm still play it all the time and there still is a lot of players in the online community it's great. I personally love the game and I like all the enemies and mobs they added. It adds to the stress level. Also after a play through even the gank mobs get easy when you figure out the little tricks to beat them
Red Liquorice
Member
Playing it atm myself, I'm only up to Velstadt but I have to say I haven't really seen anything yet that I would call an improvement or even logical. Some things have been changed to make them easier, some harder but nothing Earth-shattering, and some that just made me laugh tbh. I did like the addition of more enemies in the Harvest Valley since that was pretty sparse easy area but it's still dull and ugly with a boring layout so it's hardly a major change.
Said it before and I'll say it again, I wish they had included the original version of the game in SOTFS and had the new version as a remix/master quest type version and you could select one or the other from the main menu. I think first time players should still go for vanilla first and if they want more go for SOTFS (probably not many agree with this).
Said it before and I'll say it again, I wish they had included the original version of the game in SOTFS and had the new version as a remix/master quest type version and you could select one or the other from the main menu. I think first time players should still go for vanilla first and if they want more go for SOTFS (probably not many agree with this).
I don't think he has a gaming pc though. If its between playing on ps3/360 or playing on ps4/xbone, I'd play on the next gen consoles any day of the week. Hard to turn down 60 fps, better resolution and textures if you have a choice I'd say. Scholar is the definitive version on consoles but if your on pc, I don't see why you'd play scholar over vanilla if you have the dlc.
Doubt what? Dude you completely dodged the question. What possible reason could people have for a "general intolerance" toward the game? Its such a bizarre yet convenient scapegoat for criticism you just threw out, I've got to know where you think its coming from.
And come on dude, literally no one is saying that the Peruser's crap hitboxes ruin the game. Don't play that game.
That would have been great. Maybe they were worried about incompatibility between versions splitting the online?
Play SotFS. You'll never know the difference and it's a more interesting balance.
I played it for the first time as the SOFTS version and hearing later of all the added enemies, I feel like in this particular regard, it broke the game more.
People who say we complain about this because we "rush and get ganked" doesn't feel like are playing the same game as I did and I can only explain this as saying I am playing SOFTS and they don't.
Too many areas triggers groups on you regardless of how cautious you are being; while that's not bad by itself, it usually creates those horrible situations where you have to kind of wait everyone to attack at the same time and don't dare to hit the group more than once; or use spells and negate the difficulty almost completely. A lot of stuff on this game is like that; it's either too hard or "use spells" / "summon NPC" and negates the difficulty entirely with no satisfactory middle ground.
The enemies itself don't help. I was doing a run trying a whip build. This is what happened with the Alonne knights: I would attack with the whip, they would stagger, I would then attack again and he would recover from stagger and attack me hitting me at the same time I've hit him; meaning I can't do a two-hit combo on a single enemy because he recovers and counter-attack so damn fast.
As someone said before, there is an area where you unavoidably triggers groups of them and they run fast as hell and their attack come out so fast, they have time to recover from a stagger and hit you between hit one and two of your combo.
When I was playing with pure sorcery, that was boring, I would just pew pew as they rushed blindly torwards me. As a whip user, they are a nightmare, making it one of the toughest sections of the entire game.
As for the lore, I feel it very much did. I can't even imagine what my reaction would be playing the game without the DLC content (especially Ivory King) and the first sinner character seems to connect the two game neatly, imo. It's still the vague, open to interpretation lore we all love from Dark Souls, but with SOFTS, I feel like there are enough pieces to create a satisfactory puzzle.
One issue that was straightforward fixed was the lightning. Dark places feel dark and using a torch is meaningful; apparently that wasn't the case in the original.
People who say we complain about this because we "rush and get ganked" doesn't feel like are playing the same game as I did and I can only explain this as saying I am playing SOFTS and they don't.
Too many areas triggers groups on you regardless of how cautious you are being; while that's not bad by itself, it usually creates those horrible situations where you have to kind of wait everyone to attack at the same time and don't dare to hit the group more than once; or use spells and negate the difficulty almost completely. A lot of stuff on this game is like that; it's either too hard or "use spells" / "summon NPC" and negates the difficulty entirely with no satisfactory middle ground.
The enemies itself don't help. I was doing a run trying a whip build. This is what happened with the Alonne knights: I would attack with the whip, they would stagger, I would then attack again and he would recover from stagger and attack me hitting me at the same time I've hit him; meaning I can't do a two-hit combo on a single enemy because he recovers and counter-attack so damn fast.
As someone said before, there is an area where you unavoidably triggers groups of them and they run fast as hell and their attack come out so fast, they have time to recover from a stagger and hit you between hit one and two of your combo.
When I was playing with pure sorcery, that was boring, I would just pew pew as they rushed blindly torwards me. As a whip user, they are a nightmare, making it one of the toughest sections of the entire game.
As for the lore, I feel it very much did. I can't even imagine what my reaction would be playing the game without the DLC content (especially Ivory King) and the first sinner character seems to connect the two game neatly, imo. It's still the vague, open to interpretation lore we all love from Dark Souls, but with SOFTS, I feel like there are enough pieces to create a satisfactory puzzle.
One issue that was straightforward fixed was the lightning. Dark places feel dark and using a torch is meaningful; apparently that wasn't the case in the original.
Ingueferroque
Banned
It does not, if you ask me. Especially after Bloodborne. It is very hard for me to go back to.
I like this idea but isn't vanilla ds2 dx9 and scholar dx11? Maybe that had something to do with it.
OmegaTreeFish
Banned
The wonky hit boxes and hit detection are pretty common through out the game. I really noticed it and never even experienced the persuer one
Here are two examples just from my boss kill videos
Didn't actually hit me at all.
Acts as if I hit his shield even though I hit him squares in the chest. Then he hits me even though his sword doesn't touch me and I had actually started a roll.
The game isn't hard so it wasn't the biggest issue, it just caused a lot of eye rolls. It was more annoying the amount of times bosses hit me during my apparent iframes (I had good agilty).
It doesn't totally ruin the game but it is really annoying when it happens. It removes that feeling of things being your fault.
I feel kind of bad about people using the pursuer gif because those are consistently good fights throughout the game. If anything, he is too easy to parry, but that is one enemy that really feels like a souls enemy.Hits hard, but telegraphs; have some tricky timings, but you eventually get used to; it's a fight that can be learned, but still demands focus making it for satisfactory duels.
I just love the pursuer fight and love how it is sprinkled through the game, every time a little different. (on one situation, you have to deal with archers, on another, the room is kind of small, and so on)
I just love the pursuer fight and love how it is sprinkled through the game, every time a little different. (on one situation, you have to deal with archers, on another, the room is kind of small, and so on)
I'd actually agree; outside that one move, its a really solid fight. I also really liked the recurring, rival-esque fights.
The enemy's attack on the top gif clips your leg, the second one is going so fast that I can't really tell what's going on. It honestly looks like two clips from a separate fight are merged together.The wonky hit boxes and hit detection are pretty common through out the game. I really noticed it and never even experienced the persuer one
Here are two examples just from my boss kill videos
Didn't actually hit me at all.
Acts as if I hit his shield even though I hit him squares in the chest. Then he hits me even though his sword doesn't touch me and I had actually started a roll.
The game isn't hard so it wasn't the biggest issue, it just caused a lot of eye rolls. It was more annoying the amount of times bosses hit me during my apparent iframes (I had good agilty).
It doesn't totally ruin the game but it is really annoying when it happens. It removes that feeling of things being your fault.
Reebot, I'm honestly not sure what you want me to address? People being dismissive toward the game because of things like hitboxes strikes me as odd because I have never thought the hitboxes in Souls games were fantastic. I have had issues with them from Demon's Souls onward and that hasn't really changed. Bosses in all of the games have pretty much categorically bad hitboxes. I don't know why, but they do (I mean I do know why; making challenging fights necessitates it, but that's not really a viable reason to the portion that's going to hate).
The lore and architecture complaints are more relevant but it's not like any of the other worlds, relatively speaking, somehow make more sense. All of the games frequently incorporate impossible or improbable space to construct a world. The one that comes closest to avoiding it is Demon's Souls, but that's because most of the levels are just long, wide hallways (and of course it's constructed in levels rather than one "contiguous" worldspace). It's more that the spaces in the previous games pace themselves better than DS2, which is a limitation of, again, the game being rebuilt halfway through development.
Auto-Reply
Member
I'm playing it right now, not having played the original version, I have no clue what people mean when they say "They ruined enemy placement".
The only "problems" I see are the differences to Dark Souls 1 and they are not making me feel this game here is so ultimatively inferior as some say it is. There are some things I don't quite like as much but (for now) it's minor stuff to me.
OmegaTreeFish
Banned
If an attack like that clips your leg (which is hard to even claim at that speed plus the armour I'm wearing is visually really chunky, if my char was naked it would have still got me and prob not clipped my leg) you should simply be knocked aside and take less damage. Getting vacuumed into throws like that looks terrible and makes you blame the game rather that yourself. That's all. I can live with it but its still really annoying.
The second clip giffed straight from a fight recording I did https://youtu.be/k1FhOyoE4fQ
The hit boxes are a legitimate issue. They don't make the game totally trash or anything like some will say but its an issue none the less.
I agree, but they're no more of an issue than in any of the other games. You also get vacuumed into throws in Bloodborne, Dark Souls 1 and Demon's Souls if they clip you. There are less enemies with throws in DS1 and Demon's Souls, but actually a lot more in Bloodborne (though the damage on throws in Bloodborne is less likely to kill you than in Dark Souls 2).
OmegaTreeFish
Banned
I guess I just experienced it more in dark souls 2. I don't even recall it ever happening in dark souls 1 and bloodborne but I recall it happening multiple times on this game. That's why it stands out to me.
I remember very distinctly getting vacuumed into Cleric Beast throws the first time I fought the boss (snake enemies later on too). Was really obnoxious, and it's just as obnoxious when it happens in DS2. Bloodborne also has a bad habit of giving enemies hitboxes along their backs when they're swinging, making strafing behind an enemy's back a generally bad idea if they have a wide swing.
OmegaTreeFish
Banned
Well I can see why you would feel its unfair to target this complaint soley at this game. I just personally never noticed it in BB. Maybe it's disguised better? I don't know.
Regarldess my complaint about this is not in comparison to other games. Just that it happens and it sucks. Hopefully they at least disguise it better in ds3.
Felines and Demonic Foliage in DS1, before DS2, were also known for having really aggressive grab hitboxes (among having really bad hitboxes generally as enemies go, particularly the feline's roll). Butcher grab was also wonky and had aggressive tracking.
But yeah, it sucks when it happens, and I definitely hope in DS3 they make them less aggressive. Would be happier if they just used the general Flamelurker explosion AoEs for stuff that you need to just move out of the way of.
Imperfected
Member
It's just a symptom of the rushed development, I suppose. A few of the bosses got the loving attention to detail and final polish they deserved. A few of the enemies, meanwhile, are Falconers.
I just wrapped up a extensive playthrough this afternoon on PS4. While there's some frustrating points, and a stretch of really average areas, the areas preceding the Old Iron King and the Dukes Dear Freja aren't great, there's some highlights, but overall that back to back (at least that's how I tackled it) section of the game is just no fun (of course with a few exceptions. Also, those three dlc's are really, really great. The level design in that first dlc is amazing, and culminates in two pretty great boss fights. The other two dlc's certainly have high points too, Alonne and the Fume Knight are fucking amazing bosses, they do a good job of making you good, just throwing that shield in the garbage, and fighting the fuck out of them with pin-point accurate dodges, riveting experience. The presentation of the Ivory King battle is fucking great as well, the descent into the pit, the two sides going at it with you in the center, the lava bellowing in from all around, I love it. So yeah, it's definitely got merit, SotFS added a few really awesome changes (the dull ember placement comes to mind immediately), some of the enemy relocation now make more sense, logically. The co-op and pvp is all really great, too, I don't think this is specific to SotFS -- but I ended my playthrough fighting some people in the dragon covenant on the bridge, mutually emptying our flasks and going to town. It's just infinity playable, Dark Souls 2 fills the void of something like what Resident Evil 4 was to me back in the day, a game you could just start up, and playthrough start to finish in a reasonably quick time, that still provides a decent challenge to keep each subsequent playthrough compelling.
mickcenary
Member
The entirety of DS2 seems as if it was made in a level editor by your average gamer dragging and dropping enemies at a whim.
In this respect, it's an embarrassment compared to the other Soulsborne entries.
I only managed a few hours into SotFS, but it seemed as if it just exacerbated this aspect of the game. The 'clown cars' comment is as spot-on as you'll read.
In this respect, it's an embarrassment compared to the other Soulsborne entries.
I only managed a few hours into SotFS, but it seemed as if it just exacerbated this aspect of the game. The 'clown cars' comment is as spot-on as you'll read.