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So GAF..I think I'm turning Agnostic

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I'm muslim too, and even though I still have faith in many aspects of the religion there are aspects of it I don't agree with. I don't think I'd be the kind of person I am today if I hadn't been muslim. That said, I have lost faith in most muslims, many of them are very judgemental (even though in islam judgement is reserved for god only, they don't like it when I mention that), very closed minded and dogmatic. When people have stopped thinking for themselves, thinking critically about life and religion they've become robots. Most muslims are like that, robotic, all of their emotions and thoughts are run through an islamic filter.

There are aspects of Islam that are brilliant, like purifying your money by giving to charity. The emphasis on doing good in this world before you die. Valuing good deeds over worldly goods. How to balance your life, in order to be happy and avoid many pitfalls. These aspects of the religion really speak to me as an individual, and after thinking critically about what Islam means to me (something many muslims don't do) I came to the conclusion that it still matters to me though its importance in my daily life has been diminished somewhat.
 
wRATH2x said:
I get what you are saying man, and like I said earlier I still kind of am a muslim, since I believe in what it was. But I honestly don't care for religion anymore, like at all. I won't be doing any of the five pillars cause I'm sick of it. And I can't exactly call myself a muslim with that said, so deism works for me.
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I understand where you are coming from bro. The only thing is many of the people within islam make it too complicated. It is not. Islam is between you and god alone. I mean look at the five pillars.

1 Shahadah
2 Salat
3 Zakāt
4 Fasting
5 Hajj

which one is hard to do? I think salat might be hardest for many since you might not be praying five times. IT gets very easy though once you don't think of it as burden or something. Other than that it is so simple.

MercuryLS said:
I'm muslim too, and even though I still have faith in many aspects of the religion there are aspects of it I don't agree with. I don't think I'd be the kind of person I am today if I hadn't been muslim. That said, I have lost faith in most muslims, many of them are very judgemental (even though in islam judgement is reserved for god only, they don't like it when I mention that), very closed minded and dogmatic. When people have stopped thinking for themselves, thinking critically about life and religion they've become robots. Most muslims are like that, robotic, all of their emotions and thoughts are run through an islamic filter.

There are aspects of Islam that are brilliant, like purifying your money by giving to charity. The emphasis on doing good in this world before you die. Valuing good deeds over worldly goods. How to balance your life, in order to be happy and avoid many pitfalls. These aspects of the religion really speak to me as an individual, and after thinking critically about what Islam means to me (something many muslims don't do) I came to the conclusion that it still matters to me.
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you have very good points. The bolded part is where i agree with you too.
 
KilgoreTrout said:
Belief in a higher power has caused the most blood shed in human history.
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Corruption of religion and the message of religion has lead to the bloodshed. Christ didn't tell Christians to go kill Muslims during the crusades, Prophet Mohammed didn't tell Muslims to suicide bomb the twin towers (in fact suicide is one of the worst things you could do in Islam).

Don't blame human stupidity on religion.
 
soul creator said:
of course, that presumes that there is such thing as a special "soul" in the first place, which is kind of a loaded term in and of itself, and obviously isn't some settled question
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I think most people believe that there is something that separates a corpse from a living breathing person. But then again, maybe some people don't whatever.
 
MercuryLS said:
Corruption of religion and the message of religion has lead to the bloodshed. Christ didn't tell Christians to go kill Muslims, Prophet Mohammed didn't tell Muslims to suicide bomb the twin towers (in fact suicide is one of the worst things you could do in Islam).

Don't blame human stupidity on religion.
Click to expand...
Religion enables human stupidity.
 
I still don't get the whole if you don't beleive then go to hell thing. It's just a ridiculous trick the authors of religons wrote to keep people from leaving their religon. I mean it's like a man came and said "I saw fairies in my garden and They told me here is a book and people must follow it or they are going to hell" And when people went to his garden they found nothing and neither they found anything that proves it in the book, yet some people believed him and started worshipping the fairies and the other group of people didn't believe due to the lack of evidence and it turns out the man was true and fairies did exist. Does that mean he deserve to be thrown in hell for eternity just because they didn't beleive in them ? It's not like believing is something people can control it or not. Why would a "mericful" god ever do that to good, peaceful people simply because they didn't Believe in him or beleived in other religons.
 
crazy monkey said:
I understand where you are coming from bro. The only thing is many of the people within islam make it too complicated. It is not. Islam is between you and god alone. I mean look at the five pillars.

1 Shahadah
2 Salat
3 Zakāt
4 Fasting
5 Hajj

which one is hard to do? I think salat might be hardest for many since you might not be praying five times. IT gets very easy though once you don't think of it as burden or something. Other than that it is so simple.
Click to expand...
Yeah it becomes a burden when you go to the gym for 3 hours a day, college, studying, finding time to do something you enjoy, helping my cousin out with his band, trying to get better at playing guitar with little to no free time, comforting my mother with my grandma in the hospital, picking up much of the slack for my dad(I love him but he's lazy as all hell), getting my papers ready in time to submit it to some outside university's who might not accept you because you have yet to take both the SAT and ACT test which were never mentioned as a requirement by anybody, etc.

All this for two years. I've prayed for god to help me through this, even a little bit. He just doesn't care and why should he, we aren't exactly the most important thing in this universe. And being a 19 year old with all this work and stress, and all the things I didn't do for the sake of islam piss me off now. I read my old posts on other forums, see old videos of myself, get reminded of incidents by my friends, all the things I used to say and believe, I hate that fuck I used to be and I'm disgusted that what I've said will linger forever.

Add all that with like 5 years now of researching every religion known to man, realizing that my belief was altered despite what sheiks would have you believe, living a lie all these years. Its just too much for me.

What I believe in is long gone, and recently religion is not a topic I care for.
 
Trip Warhawkins said:
Religion enables human stupidity.
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Lots of things enable human stupidity, hell you could argue that national pride or race have attributed to many wars too. Our biggest flaw as humanity is that we've categorized each other based on race, religion, culture, etc. The mentality that if you're not one of us you're the enemy. That mentality isn't exclusive to religion, it's a mentality that has been around much longer than any of the monotheistic religions. Islam tried to break that train of thought, saying explicitly that all humans are created equal in the eyes of God and its our character and deeds that separate us. Many of the people who follow Islam, and other religions for that matter, don't really really take this to heart. Even now you've got some insane human rights violations in the middle east where many Indian and Pakistani workers are treated like modern day slaves. This is not what Prophet Muhammed for Muslims and the human race.

Religion didn't fail us, we've failed ourselves.
 
MercuryLS said:
Religion didn't fail us, we've failed ourselves.
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Nah, this is a bit like saying communism didn't fail us, we failed ourselves. People did a lot of stupid and bad shit they probably would not have done but for religious belief. and continue to do so.
 
Thunder Monkey said:
I pooped in your shoe this morning.

Also, monkey's don't have souls. We're too busy stealing, killing, and raping to care.
Click to expand...

I hope you find light someday, I really do. Until then, I'll speak to God on your behalf.
 
Mango Positive said:
For the newly converted (and those who converted in the past, but still hold fast to certain restrictions), might I fully recommend the powers of bacon? Bacon is wonderful. I can not imagine life without it. A good pork chop can be wonderful as well, but bacon is where the party is.

You have to keep in mind that one of the primary reasons for the rules against swine eating had to do with perception (rolling around in the mud) and the fact that a lot of people got sick eating bad pork back in the day (before refrigeration). Same with shellfish (mmm... lobster).

I will not necessarily recommend you become raging drunks, but the appreciation of a good quality IPA or single malt scotch is very much akin to enjoying really spicy food. Just remember that it's not really about the buzz.

And for on-topicness:

I was once VERY religious (Christian), but not in a fundamental way... more spiritual. It was really just the size of the universe that tipped me into doubt-town. I now call myself an atheist... not because I "know" there is no god (very few atheists will say that), but because I do not believe in any kind of higher power. Sure, there's a fundamental energy responsible for existence that you might call "God", but it isn't conscious and it sure as heck doesn't judge you. It probably doesn't even know you exist.
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Fuck bacon! First thing you do, have a sausage party.
 
Whoompthereitis said:
I hope you find light someday, I really do. Until then, I'll speak to God on your behalf.
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Nah, that's okay, me and Jesus just smoked some reefer this morning he told me. "As long as you stop trying to become human, we'll stop having this conversation."

He then anointed my testicles with oils.

Siebzehn50 said:
Monkey's are atheists, eh?
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We use to be Catholic... but our church got caught up in a sex abuse scandal too.
 
Akia said:
I think most people believe that there is something that separates a corpse from a living breathing person. But then again, maybe some people don't whatever.
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well, most people are religious, so that comes with the territory, and you're probably right. But religions tend to take that concept and go off the deep end with it, without actually verifying whether the concept actually makes sense or not. Of course, since most popular religions were created hundreds/thousands of years ago, it probably made sense at the time. But in 2010 it seems a bit antiquated.

Most current evidence shows that working brains are what separates a corpse from a living breathing person. Popular religions tend to ignore this current evidence. Why? Because it would conflict with what they're selling. Which goes back to my earlier point :P
 
wRATH2x said:
Yeah it becomes a burden when you go to the gym for 3 hours a day, college, studying, finding time to do something you enjoy, helping my cousin out with his band, trying to get better at playing guitar with little to no free time, comforting my mother with my grandma in the hospital, picking up much of the slack for my dad(I love him but he's lazy as all hell), getting my papers ready in time to submit it to some outside university's who might not accept you because you have yet to take both the SAT and ACT test which were never mentioned as a requirement by anybody, etc.

All this for two years. I've prayed for god to help me through this, even a little bit. He just doesn't care and why should he, we aren't exactly the most important thing in this universe. And being a 19 year old with all this work and stress, and all the things I didn't do for the sake of islam piss me off now. I read my old posts on other forums, see old videos of myself, get reminded of incidents by my friends, all the things I used to say and believe, I hate that fuck I used to be and I'm disgusted that what I've said will linger forever.

Add all that with like 5 years now of researching every religion known to man, realizing that my belief was altered despite what sheiks would have you believe, living a lie all these years. Its just too much for me.

What I believe in is long gone, and recently religion is not a topic I care for.
Click to expand...

All things you said are not alone for you. Everyone in the world has responsibilities and works. As far as failing and thing I have failed so many times in my life but i did not blamed it god or said he does not care. I am responsible for that.
Which part of the 5 pillars are burden while doing all this work?

And stil remind you it is not what shaikh says or what local mulah says. It is you and god there is not in between. If you take that approach it is quite easy to understand things.
I still talk to god as friend.

Trip Warhawkins said:
Religion enables human stupidity.
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I find this sentence stupid.

Thunder Monkey said:
I pooped in your shoe this morning.

Also, monkey's don't have souls. We're too busy stealing, killing, and raping to care.
Click to expand...
speak for self you bastard:lol
 
Thunder Monkey said:
Nah, that's okay, me and Jesus just smoked some reefer this morning he told me. "As long as you stop trying to become human, we'll stop having this conversation."

He then anointed my testicles with oils.
Click to expand...

I know you're just trying to be shocking to offend me, but it's really not working. My faith has taught me to find solace in the truth, and not let people like you get to me. I think you've done a great job proving my point about faith and decency.

I wish you all the best.
 
crazy monkey said:
speak for self you bastard:lol
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I saw what you did this morning.

That screams of no soul too you heretic!

Whoompthereitis said:
I know you're just trying to be shocking to offend me, but it's really not working. My faith has taught me to find solace in the truth, and not let people like you get to me. I think you've done a great job proving my point about faith and decency.

I wish you all the best.
Click to expand...
HEY!

Me and Jesus are buddies!

I don't smoke pot with just anyone! Though... I do let just about anyone anoint my genitals.
 
Dude Abides said:
Nah, this is a bit like saying communism didn't fail us, we failed ourselves. People did a lot of stupid and bad shit they probably would not have done but for religious belief. and continue to do so.
Click to expand...

Communism sounds good in theory but doesn't work in practice, communists failed cause their philosophy on economics was in opposition with human nature (which is individual success and the idea that you should reap what you sow). What about all the other human atrocities that have happened thanks to things other than religion? Hell the current occupation of Iraq isn't religion based, its based on economics. The truth is, wars are started for money and power, the propagators of these wars use religion or other concepts (communism, democracy, racial purity in the case of Nazi Germany, etc) to achieve their means. If you want to blame anything, blame human beings insatiable lust greed and power.
 
soul creator said:
How does this communication work? Does he have an audible voice? Is it just a thought in your head, that you happen to call god? Do you audibly respond?
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I DO!

But my psychiatrist did say I have schizophrenic episodes.
 
Speaking of the devil (no pun intended). My religious nut cousin just put a status update blaming all his faults on Satan. lulz.
 
Dude, will you just stop playing coy and tell us how souls were created. Don't play dumb!
 
MercuryLS said:
Communism sounds good in theory but doesn't work in practice, communists failed cause their philosophy on economics was in opposition with human nature (which is individual success and the idea that you should reap what you sow). What about all the other human atrocities that have happened thanks to things other than religion? Hell the current occupation of Iraq isn't religion based, its based on economics. The truth is, wars are started for money and power, the propagators of these wars use religion or other concepts (communism, democracy, racial purity in the case of Nazi Germany, etc) to achieve their means. If you want to blame anything, blame human beings insatiable lust greed and power.
Click to expand...

What about them? It does not follow from the fact that people do bad things for reasons that are not religious ones that they do not do bad things for religious reasons as well.

The fact remains that things like the Inquisition and 9/11, would, in all likelihood, never have happened but for religious belief.
 
morningbus said:
Dude, will you just stop playing coy and tell us how souls were created. Don't play dumb!
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It actually took place during the big bang.

At the time it wasn't known why starbits where questioning their existence, but as time went on we realized why. Our universe had created awareness from nothingness. Some of the earliest theorists think the creation of our universe, or the blank moment, was really the end of a prior epic battle between good and evil, both the creator and the destroyer... destroyed each other and dispersed their essence.

So... We're all tiny pieces of the creator and destroyer.
 
Dude Abides said:
What about them? It does not follow from the fact that people do bad things for reasons that are not religious ones that they do not do bad things for religious reasons as well.

The fact remains that things like the Inquisition and 9/11, would, in all likelihood, never have happened but for religious belief.
Click to expand...

But without religious belief, the world wouldn't even have lasted long enough to make it to the Inquisition, let alone 9/11.
 
Whoompthereitis said:
But without religious belief, the world wouldn't even have lasted long enough to make it to the Inquisition, let alone 9/11.
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That's true. The Catholic Church played a key role in defusing the Huguenot missile crisis.
 
Dude Abides said:
What about them? It does not follow from the fact that people do bad things for reasons that are not religious ones that they do not do bad things for religious reasons as well.

The fact remains that things like the Inquisition and 9/11, would, in all likelihood, never have happened but for religious belief.
Click to expand...

Don't know all the details on the Inquisition, so I'm not going to comment on that. But much of the reason 9/11 happened was anger towards America for supporting the state of Israel, which in turn persecute Muslims. Before the forming of Israel, how many Muslims were committing terrorist attacks? It's easy to blame it on the religion, but that's not the reason why Islamic fundamentalist are acting the way they are nowadays. I'm not condoning this behaviour at all, I think its despicable to air your grievances by attacking innocent civilians but blindly blaming it on religion means that you're glossing over some key reasons why modern day Muslim terrorists exist.
 
Thank you God! for letting us live to see the glorious day of La Inquisición!

P.S. The toilet is broken, get Judas or someone to fix it.
 
MercuryLS said:
Don't know all the details on the Inquisition, so I'm not going to comment on that. But much of the reason 9/11 happened was anger towards America for supporting the state of Israel, which in turn persecute Muslims. Before the forming of Israel, how many Muslims were committing terrorist attacks? It's easy to blame it on the religion, but that's not the reason why Islamic fundamentalist are acting the way they are nowadays. I'm not condoning this behaviour at all, I think its despicable to air your grievances by attacking innocent civilians but blindly blaming it on religion means that you're glossing over some key reasons why modern day Muslim terrorists exist.
Click to expand...

Modern day terrorism live because of the following reasons, there are probably more... Here's a start.

1) Lack of jobs and opportunity in their countries.
2) Corrupt leaders in the Muslim world ie. money laundering etc.
3) Lack of education in the Muslim World
4) Corruption not just leaders, but everyday leaders.
5) Apathy towards everything in life.
 
Zapages said:
Modern day terrorism live because of the following reasons, there are probably more... Here's a start.

1) Lack of jobs and opportunity in their countries.
2) Corrupt leaders in the Muslim world ie. money laundering etc.
3) Lack of education in the Muslim World
4) Corruption not just leaders, but everyday leaders.
5) Apathy towards everything in life.
Click to expand...

The religion is not the problem. If people in these countries were less religious, there'd be more terrorism. Faith is always a good thing, even if sometimes people of faith do bad things.
 
Whoompthereitis said:
The religion is not the problem. If people in these countries were less religious, there'd be more terrorism. Faith is always a good thing, even if sometimes people of faith do bad things.
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That's what I was trying to say aka those reasons...
 
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