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So I just finished Uncharted 2......thats it?
- Thread starter MYE
- Start date
No no, this is neogaf. If a game has good graphics then it's not a good game.
What OP ignores is that NO game has ever combined storytelling, set pieces, the vertical platforming, the cover based shooting, and the puzzles in the way that uncharted has. Not a single game comes to mind that can compare.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
And maybe you should be much less condescending.
This got a real laugh out of me.
This isn't an excuse. Gameplay is timeless. Things like graphics and story always age badly because stories in video games are still laughable and the graphics won't impress by time next gen rolls around.
I contend that the Uncharted games and Last of Us will age VERY badly over the next 5 years.
Neff
Member
Uncharted has pointless, broken mechanics at every turn. Random body part HP. A slow dodge without invinciblity. Laggy, automatically context-sensitive movement. Randomly unsafe cover. Inconsistent cover-sticking. Vulnerable long-ass QTE melee scenes. So much of the game is out of your hands. Fortunately, regenerating health is there to hide all this while you look foward to the next scene of Drake falling off something. If you play 'good', you'll probably survive. If you play 'bad', you'll probably die. Playing on Crushing simply demands more waiting behind walls between encounters as you regenerate. Otherwise, it's exactly the same. Skill is not a factor.
Every technique in RE6 (and there are many) has valid strategic merit. If you play good, you'll definitely survive. If you play bad, you'll definitely die. Playing on Pro or NHL requires absolute skill and dedication.
Tomb Raider is a better Uncharted game than Uncharted. In every aspect bar voice acting and cut scenes.
Yep basically. Sounds like op didn't like the way the game played. I thought it was fun and loved the characters and story. Not every game has to challenge your skills. Some games, like Uncharted, can be a fun joy ride.
GrotesqueBeauty
Banned
Uncharted 2 is a good game, but I agree it's somewhat blown out of proportion. Can't fault it on presentation though. The game has incredibly high production values, and I think that's why so many people find it rewarding. If you strip it down to just the gameplay elements Uncharted 2 is pretty by the numbers. Solid, but not revelatory.
Tomb Raider 2013.
Does almost everything better to. At least the stuff that matters.
Spring-Loaded
Member
It really doesn't.
Except make you care about any of the characters outside of Lara. I didn't even remember their names in my playthrough.
I pretty much agree with everything the OP says.
It's perhaps the most impressive game I've played from a pure production values standpoint.
But the gameplay is average and, worse, lacks confidence. There's no faith in players to handle anything beyond simple encounters, beyond simple puzzles, and beyond simple platforming. Which is a shame, because there are some good mechanics underneath the game, just wasted on simplistic gameplay.
If they focused on non-bullet sponge enemies (something like TLOU), on puzzles that didn't insult your intelligence or force you to consult a manual, on combat scenarios that utilized verticality, and on platforming that actually had elements of timing, then the game could be incredible.
It's perhaps the most impressive game I've played from a pure production values standpoint.
But the gameplay is average and, worse, lacks confidence. There's no faith in players to handle anything beyond simple encounters, beyond simple puzzles, and beyond simple platforming. Which is a shame, because there are some good mechanics underneath the game, just wasted on simplistic gameplay.
If they focused on non-bullet sponge enemies (something like TLOU), on puzzles that didn't insult your intelligence or force you to consult a manual, on combat scenarios that utilized verticality, and on platforming that actually had elements of timing, then the game could be incredible.
AcceptableGhost
Member
I like the enactment (despite hating cinematic games otherwise) but the combat just ruined this game (or the whole franchise to be more precise) for me. I would have loved for this to be a true explorer / puzzle game with an exciting swashbuckler story, but it's a generic TPS shooter for the most time. :X
I found none of the characters interesting or engaging outside of Lara and the story is kind of shitty. Can't really say the same thing about Uncharted whether you liked the gameplay or not.
PushingButtons
Member
Back when I originally played the game I thought it was amazing. Fast forward a couple years and looking back it's honestly pretty mediocre in terms of actual gameplay. It's all fluff for the most part.
Actually, I think I Am Alive had some better traversal mechanics. Or at least some better ideas regarding it.
Actually, I think I Am Alive had some better traversal mechanics. Or at least some better ideas regarding it.
I didn't care about the characters in Uncharted either.
GrotesqueBeauty
Banned
But Uncharted had great characters? Because in the grand pantheon of storytelling I'd place it at the level of a mid-tier summer blockbuster. I wish I could say I'm surprised that anyone was genuinely taken with the characters, but videogames have set a pretty low bar for the most part. Games with inventive stories like Majora's Mask or Killer 7 have grabbed me, but as far as "cinematic" games go I think they're all pretty shitty. Uncharted is just slightly less so.
I'm sorry but caring more about character development than game play is an issue that should be addressed within itself.
Just watch movies and save yourself some money.
jeremy1456
Junior Member
He said the as far as stuff that matters is concerned.
I imagine story wouldn't be included under that.
Personally I'm not a fan of the Uncharted series. Do I hate it? No. I just don't enjoy the gameplay; no aspect feels completely refined and it has a lot of what I would consider 'gameplay filler' (the constant ledge climbing).
I really like The Last of Us though, but its biggest weaknesses are the elements ripped straight out of Uncharted.
TrueBlueHero
Banned
What I said in the other thread:
I'm about 6 hours in TLoU and while Im blown away by the overall look and incredible detail the limitations are evident. With these gorgeous looking environments I had the wish to explore, to climb the debris of the fallen city but simply couldnt. Even ordinary containers in the playing space have an invisible fence around (and above) them, thus vertical gameplay is non-existent. The game gives you the perfect illusion of space, but its an illusion nonetheless. Most of the time you follow a linear path which in turn enables ND to maximize visual fidelity. The presentation is so out of this world that I often forget that Ive seen similar concepts carried out in a much more sophisticated and FUN way (thinking about the far from perfect Tomb Raider for example hunting, bow, platforming). Generic stealth and gun-play don't help either so far.
The point is: ND gets a free pass for that and TLoU is considered a master-piece.
I've not made my final judgement yet but TLoU is even worse than UC2 in that regard so far.
I don't understand people defending ND - praise where it is deserved but it's no excuse for shallow gameplay. It's not that better gunplay or stealth would be impossible with that high level of presentation.
As I said. The stuff that matters.
Gameplay, gunplay, level design, how they tackle collectibles.
Also, if the game learned some restraint and didn't feature shit breaking or Drake falling off something every five seconds, I'd be more shocked when it actually happens. It's just that by the 53rd time it happens, the effect is totally lost.
Basically, if Naughty Dog applied some of the control they demonstrated in TLOU, I think their "HOLY SHIT WOW" moments would still have some punch instead of facing diminishing returns.
Basically, if Naughty Dog applied some of the control they demonstrated in TLOU, I think their "HOLY SHIT WOW" moments would still have some punch instead of facing diminishing returns.
Completely agree with the OP. The praise the Uncharted series gets is almost entirely from the presentation, story, and set pieces. The core gameplay is nothing above average, and in some cases, below average.
I'm not very far into The Last of Us, but it seems like a very similar story: excellent presentation, average gameplay. There does seem to be more variety though, which is good.
I'm not very far into The Last of Us, but it seems like a very similar story: excellent presentation, average gameplay. There does seem to be more variety though, which is good.
airmangataosenai
Member
..... riiiight...
And No, people don't like Uncharted just because of the production values. The gameplay is tightly paced and the dislike some people have for the feel of the combat is entirely subjective and an opinion not shared by the majority of players.
Andronicus
Banned
not sure if serious or trolling
At least SS teaches you the basic logic behind puzzles and how to confront them, building upon them over the course of the game, which is quite different from Uncharted's "open up the manual to find the solution" nonsense.
And that's just one aspect of many it has over Uncharted in being an actual game over something that virtually plays itself.
Gameplay in UC is awesome. I love me some dynamic gunplay that actually makes use of my surroundings, both horizontal and vertical.
blitzcloud
Banned
The ending alone was worth all the praise. Finally an end that makes you feel it rounded everything up the best way it could.
Blame the poster on the first page who was unwilling to debate the merits of the thread's topic and instead decided to bring up SS in some poorly-misguided effort to discredit the OP, as opposed to his argument.
Randy Monk
Member
I want this hat. Anyone know where to buy one?
CosmicGroinPull
Member
OP you're insane. Gunfights on a train while avoiding an attack chopper? Hopping around trucks driving at top speed while taking them down? Etc etc....
It's like saying RE4 is no longer impressive because every modern game has its mechanics ...
It's like saying RE4 is no longer impressive because every modern game has its mechanics ...
I didn't say that stuff wasn't important. I would agree that the gameplay is average at best and in some instances below average. But Tomb Raiders gameplay is pretty similar( pretty linear, big set pieces, emphasis on story, etc) so I'm not sure how its better than Uncharted especially when the story and characters are better in Uncharted then they are in Tomb Raider.
airmangataosenai
Member
I know I already posted once but stuff like this just piss me off. You are free to dislike a game because the style isn't to your taste, as is true of all games, but to outright dismiss the incredible effort that went into getting the game design right in what ended up being one of the most influential games released in the past 10 years. Yes the production values and story play a big part in the appeal but it would be meaningless if the game wasn't fun and Uncharted is in the most competitive genre in the industry.
Do you have any idea how much planning has to go into not just the relatively complex AI routines, but the level design in accommodating them? Not to mention having them react and respond to the huge set pieces and explosions going on around them? Uncharted 2 represented a Herculean achievement in game design when it was released, and on top of that they even managed to incorporate a fun multiplayer mode. It's very easy to get this stuff wrong, and yet the OP just dismisses all this with two sentences and "Raising a flame shield".
Do you have any idea how much planning has to go into not just the relatively complex AI routines, but the level design in accommodating them? Not to mention having them react and respond to the huge set pieces and explosions going on around them? Uncharted 2 represented a Herculean achievement in game design when it was released, and on top of that they even managed to incorporate a fun multiplayer mode. It's very easy to get this stuff wrong, and yet the OP just dismisses all this with two sentences and "Raising a flame shield".
Influential? Well... I feel this thread should be cross posted here: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=601886
I'm also playing through Uncharted 2 at the moment, and I feel very similar about it. I set the difficulty to Hard to try to keep things interesting, but I'm finding it to still be pretty easy. Most of my deaths are related to the controls, namely moving around. I'm not sure if its Naughty Dog at fault or if the DualShock 3's analog sticks suck this badly (odd, considering I never had issues with previous iterations of the controller). Either way, the movement feels way too loose, not to mention that the targeting system for climbing and cover can be really finicky (again, going back to those analog sticks...). I can't say I like how linear the climbing around is, I would prefer to have some extra options, but that's just me personally. Also not too fond of the "look for the yellow ledge" color skinning, it makes the game feel extremely railroaded. The puzzles are pretty lame too.
That being said, I dig the story, though the animation and character modeling are starting to show their age a bit. The environments on the other hand still look pretty good, and the later parts of the game get better about the ledges. The shooting is much improved over the first Uncharted, and the pacing is spot on. The dialogue is also really good and keeps the game interesting.
I feel that it embodies all that is right and wrong with this generation. It shows that gaming has reached a point that it can compete with feature films with story presentation, but it also shows how shallow we've allowed gameplay to become, turning it into a long railroaded experience. While I'm an advocate that linear game design can be well done, it has to keep the player from seeing it's scripted. Unfortunately, Uncharted 2 stumbled pretty hard in this area for me, and that makes it a personal deal breaker. Excellent game? Sure. But a milestone in entertainment? Far from it. There's a lot of good to learn from it, but I have a bad feeling that future developers will use it as an excuse to railroad the game for the sake of story.
That being said, I dig the story, though the animation and character modeling are starting to show their age a bit. The environments on the other hand still look pretty good, and the later parts of the game get better about the ledges. The shooting is much improved over the first Uncharted, and the pacing is spot on. The dialogue is also really good and keeps the game interesting.
I feel that it embodies all that is right and wrong with this generation. It shows that gaming has reached a point that it can compete with feature films with story presentation, but it also shows how shallow we've allowed gameplay to become, turning it into a long railroaded experience. While I'm an advocate that linear game design can be well done, it has to keep the player from seeing it's scripted. Unfortunately, Uncharted 2 stumbled pretty hard in this area for me, and that makes it a personal deal breaker. Excellent game? Sure. But a milestone in entertainment? Far from it. There's a lot of good to learn from it, but I have a bad feeling that future developers will use it as an excuse to railroad the game for the sake of story.
Play it again on crushing and turn on turbo mode in the option 
It makes the platforming a lot faster and fun overall, I wish it still had the bonuses in 3
The trainwreck map was pretty much the highlight of the game with decent level design, there are some dull moments and the village/platforming was a drag on a replay (which is why putting it on fast would make it more tolerable), but overall it's a lot of fun if you skip certain chapters. The pacing is what they excel at and the improvements they made to the AIs (less aimbots), map design and enemy spawn location makes it a superior game than UC1.
Also shit boss fight, but the one in 3 is even shittier.
It makes the platforming a lot faster and fun overall, I wish it still had the bonuses in 3
The trainwreck map was pretty much the highlight of the game with decent level design, there are some dull moments and the village/platforming was a drag on a replay (which is why putting it on fast would make it more tolerable), but overall it's a lot of fun if you skip certain chapters. The pacing is what they excel at and the improvements they made to the AIs (less aimbots), map design and enemy spawn location makes it a superior game than UC1.
Also shit boss fight, but the one in 3 is even shittier.
MvmntInGrn
Member
UC2 has a better story and cast.
Pretty much everything else is RE4. For its time it was as highly regarded as UC2 in the production department and there is a lot (and I mean A LOT) more to the gunplay and encounter design in RE4. Absolute masterpiece in production AND gameplay. For as many production boxes Uncharted checks it hasn't evolved in the gameplay department as much over two games(haven't played UC3) as RE4 did in a single one.
Uncharted 2 is still a great game. Despite somewhat unexciting gameplay and mechanics the production is still entertaining on repeat playthroughs. I've played through the first two games multiple times because they are short enough to play quickly and still be absolute blast to experience. I commend Naughty Dog for that. The gameplay just isn't the highlight. It handles this really well by keeping shootouts and platforming secitons short at least. Even then the shooting can become tiresome towards the end but it balances well for the majority of the game.
Naughty Dog had some great ideas with platforming and gunplay in the Jak series while also delivering some very impressive visuals on the PS2. I hope next gen they are able to create something that shines as brightly in the gameplay department as it does in the technical one (I haven't played The Last of Us yet).
For the most part it isn't about disliking a game, its about trying to diminish it in other peoples eyes. I don't like this, nobody else should. If you do, then something is wrong with you. Fun is a buzzword, etc. Otherwise the above comic would pretty much cover it. In theory you could explain why you dislike it, but its always just stuff like "bad gameplay, bad level design" which is nothing more than another opinion dressed up to sound like a fact. So meh.
Just once I'd love to see someone go into specific detail instead of tossing out vague bits about gameplay, level design and Ai. Its such a copout to the point of why even bother in the first place? Its why it usually seems more about standing out and/or tearing something down than anything.
I think they delivered on the hype for UC2, that is if you're coming from UC1, I thought 1 was a inferior game in comparison (I did not think UC1 was that good of a game, but I enjoyed it enough), but UC2 did improve on a lot of aspects, it's not perfect, but it's why people were hyped about UC3 because people expect ND to improve the game more (even bigger levels and better AIs, and better stealth mechanics) but they failed to deliver on most of those, and even took a step back in several ways.
I know people that doesn't like UC2 but I think interms of basic gameplay mechanics like gunplay, control and polishness, it's one of the better games this gen in comparison to other TPSes, and not to mention it provided a pretty good package and a good mix of gameplay, cinematics and challenges.
The approach to combat is what makes the gameplay shine. Will I be methodic, or go exposed and brutal? For each situation I feel I have the choice in U2, and gameplay is as fluid as a game can be. With production value AND humor, something 99% games lack.
Also multiplayer is pure, the most frantic arcade experience I've had in such a shooter.
Also multiplayer is pure, the most frantic arcade experience I've had in such a shooter.
Stripper13
Member
OP Reflects my thoughts on the franchise. Stunning to look at, a story/setting well above average. That's it.
Playing it feels like COD, with some elements feeling stronger and others weaker. But nothing shakes the feeling that I'm on railway track. More importantly some elements of the games highlight this flaw.
Example - running away from bad guys over rooftops in UC3. Turn the wrong way, Jump the wrong way - Insta fail. My input is holding the stick forward like sonic... With some occasional adjustments depending on camera orientation.
I'll never get the love. It's great, and deserves sequels - but I fail to see how it can be considered GOTY or GOTG. But hey, opinions.
Playing it feels like COD, with some elements feeling stronger and others weaker. But nothing shakes the feeling that I'm on railway track. More importantly some elements of the games highlight this flaw.
Example - running away from bad guys over rooftops in UC3. Turn the wrong way, Jump the wrong way - Insta fail. My input is holding the stick forward like sonic... With some occasional adjustments depending on camera orientation.
I'll never get the love. It's great, and deserves sequels - but I fail to see how it can be considered GOTY or GOTG. But hey, opinions.