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[Zambayoshi]

The fact that Alpha 3.0 isn't even out but they still have to come cap in hand to whales after raising upwards of $156 million and try to sell them $400+ ships (the most recent of which will be on sale during Gamescom) leads me to believe that Chris Roberts has bitten off way more than he could chew.

What I don't understand is, if this product is going to release as an MVP, why not complete and polish a smaller, bite-sized game experience first, and then add to it with stuff like professions, mining, etc.

Unless, this Alpha 3.0 actually IS the smaller, bite-sized game experience, in which case, I don't think the full product (including stretch goals) has a snowball's chance in hell at coming out.

The problem is really that Chris dreamed too big and the amount of money raised went to his head. He's now caught between a rock and a hard place, because he can't scale down the project and he can't raise enough money and have enough time to complete it. The best he can do is what he is currently doing: teasing incremental updates and flogging JPEGs like his life depends on it.

 

[Gunslinger]

I wonder how much of that 156 mil went to the celebrity voice actors.

 

[Ivory Samoan]

Squadron 42 coming out in 2018 with a really cool marketing campaign will do 2 things:

1) Drum up heaps more $$$ for development, hopefully this speeds something along in the EU space.

2) Give a polished product to us backers to play in full, which will 'calm the stomach' of the collective digestive system so to speak (like an antacid of gaming).

 

[Pepboy]

Here's why I say things are taking a long as fuck time to get going

Look at this chart. Presently proudly on their weekly puff piece segment. Look at that Y axis. A net decrease of 6 bugs that need to be solved prior to the release of a closed alpha test.

Look what happens when you make the Y axis 0

Two weeks of work, net decrease of 10 bugs. At this rate the closed alpha will be released in 4 months. But here's the kicker, things always get worse before they get better when you are dealing with bugfixing. 80/20 rule, 80% of the work will go to fix 20% of the problem.

Nice catch. This is pretty damning. I suppose they might be tackling some of the nastiest bugs first... but I'll agree this makes it seem like it won't be ready in time for Citizencon.

they aren't releasing 3.0 until all of those bugs are fixed?

I didn't watch the video but the title does say "Must Fix" Issues, so it seems fair that these are key bugs they intend to fix before release.

List looks great. They have until September 31st, then, to get it out and have it deliver on every listed feature. Looking forward to it. Further delays will likely mean my requesting a refund. I think that's fair.

You can try requesting a refund but they changed the terms of service so it is no longer guaranteed as long as the game is still "in development". Of course, if the game is not in development, it means they closed up shop anyways.

If there's going to be a run on the bank after Gamescom/CitizenCon, you might be better off getting your money back now.

 

[eyeball_kid]

The problem here is that he's seemingly feature creeping almost every major part of the original vision, thus changing his original "vision" of the game to a point backers *might* argue they didn't "back/support".

I can tell you, if he cancels the game or can't finish it because he feature creeped it beyond his means to develop it, it probably opens himself up to all sorts of legal issues.

I backed a game he pitched to me as being a connected online experience where you can fly your ship around and do missions, etc.

Now it's turned into a first person shooter(Star Marine...missing in action btw) along with all sorts of fancy tech jargon that I just assume he abandon and deliver what he originally pitched. It's now ballooned into seamless planetary entry, seemless first person boarding/unboarding ships, massive explorable planets with missions/bounties, numerous star systems and planets, etc. When one stops to really, really think about what he's proposing you'll find yourself facing common sense in the mirror.

Yeah, it's like Roberts saw what E and No Man's Sky were doing and had to make sure those features were in there too. It reminds me of Duke Nukem Forever. The development of DNF went on for so long that 3D Realms began to chase new tech and new games that were coming out, instead of just focusing in the original vision. Chasing the state of the art on a project of this scale is a recipe for failure because the state is always changing.

 

[ultrazilla]

I wonder how much of that 156 mil went to the celebrity voice actors.

Ugh, I was under the impression the actors were actually "on set" doing their own motion cap/voice over work. It wasn't *just* voice work.

And to answer your question-a shit ton of money. Probably why he'll never release what he actually paid the actors/actresses. And probably a very good portion of that budget went to it.

This all goes back to Roberts wanting to "make it in Hollywood" and consider himself one of their own.

Anyone without rose colored glasses on surely has the common sense to look at the scope of the project now, what little has actually been done, the sustainability of the income, money for the online infrastructure the game will need to run and and be maintained with and other imho red flags.

The fact they've changed the TOS to "cover them" basically saying what people have now is sufficient enough to count as a game and relieve them of liability for a full fledged product should development stop(THE BIGGEST RED FLAG EVER).

And again, the knights of the project will say it's routine but I disagree-the fact they've had to take loans out is another huge RED FLAG regarding the game's standing.

I think when all of this comes to a head, a ton of people are going to be eating their words.

This will be the "Enron" of the video game industry. And yes, I backed his "original vision", not his current one for the record.

Edit: Both Cliffy B(Lawbreakers, Gears of War) and George Broussard(Duke Nukem 3D, one of original founding members of 3drealms) have mentioned in some form that Roberts is
in way over his head and folks should be wary. What you should realize is that Broussard knows a thing or two about this as Duke Nukem Forever was feature creeped to a point it would have never came
out if the I.P. hadn't been sold to Gearbox.

 

[Crayon]

Squadron 42 coming out in 2018 with a really cool marketing campaign will do 2 things:

1) Drum up heaps more $$$ for development, hopefully this speeds something along in the EU space.

2) Give a polished product to us backers to play in full, which will 'calm the stomach' of the collective digestive system so to speak (like an antacid of gaming).

I'm just in for squadron 42. Nice to hear it will be out in 2018.

 

[Phediuk]

They'll release something they officially declare a finished product, but no, it will never be "done" in the sense you're thinking of.

 

[ultrazilla]

They'll release something they officially declare a finished product, but no, it will never be "done" in the sense you're thinking of.

According to their updated TOS, what backers have now is considered a finished product ie "DONE".

But ignore that massive RED FLAG waving behind it!

 

[K.Jack]

All I want is for SQ42 to deliver in spades, a 9.5 out of 10 must play campaign.

I have little care for the MMO portion, or the people dumping their life savings in hopes that it lives up to what was massive feature creep.

 

[Ganyc]

Ugh, I was under the impression the actors were actually "on set" doing their own motion cap/voice over work. It wasn't *just* voice work.

this is correct

And to answer your question-a shit ton of money.

i believe you have sources for this?

According to their updated TOS, what backers have now is considered a finished product ie "DONE".

and where does it state that?
The part where they explain what a pre-release test is?

 

[SnowTeeth]

According to their updated TOS, what backers have now is considered a finished product ie "DONE".

But ignore that massive RED FLAG waving behind it!

What?

 

[roMonster]

All I want is for SQ42 to deliver in spades, a 9.5 out of 10 must play campaign.

I have little care for the MMO portion, or the people dumping their life savings in hopes that it lives up to what was massive feature creep.

Hopefully followed up by an A+ "Interstellar SEAL Team 6969" in the not too distant future.

 

[Pepboy]

I'm just in for squadron 42. Nice to hear it will be out in 2018.

There's no official word and 2018 is super optimistic given past progress. They haven't even felt comfortable enough to share SQ42 progress for almost 2 years.

I mean, sure, maybe they will surprise everyone and do a stealth release. But late 2019 or mid 2020 seems more likely given they have such mismanagement. Unless they need to rush to generate more revenue, but I think it's more likely Chris Roberts starts taking external funding very quietly before he releases a half baked SQ42. He has no fear of going over budget and would probably do or say anything to get more funding. (Though I at least applaud that they are using the funds, even if poorly, rather than just taking the money and running.)

 

[Zambayoshi]

What?

Actually, the TOS say this (Link):

These Terms of Service, together with any applicable End User Licensing Agreements ("EULA"), the RSI's Privacy Policy ("Privacy Policy"), as any of the foregoing may be amended from time to time, together with any rules or instructions regarding a particular activity, poll, or other offering to the extent that they expressly modify these Terms of Service (all such terms hereafter collectively "RSI Terms"), govern your use of the Website, the participation in the game "Star Citizen" and related modules, including "Squadron 42" (collectively, the "Game"), and any other product, online service or web site (the Game, the Website, and any such other sites or services, individually and collectively "RSI Services") offered by us.

(emphasis added)

Seems to me that what has been made available to customers (even if it could be considered a 'commercial release' as set out elsewhere in the TOS) does not include Squadron 42 and therefore CIG can't say that customers have 'the Game'.

LOL, unless Chris pulls another Star Marine - 'it was in the game all along, you fools!' - and renames some PU stuff and mission givers, so that players can experience S42 and Star Citizen AT THE SAME TIME!

 

[Majukun]

Right at the start then.

So you were never interested.

I Was intrigued by the announcement

 

[Nowak94]

Star Citizen Release Date
1) Go to #2
2) Go to #1

 

[Sophist]

This really isn't true anymore. I wish it was but it isn't. [...]

I disagree, that guy said the truth. If i buy a game on its release date and the said game is crap, no update would erase the memory of the bad experience; The game that i played at that moment is forever bad.

 

[low-G]

The best reality is one in which Squadron 42 is released and is great but SC is dumped and all those whales get beached.

Get the drama and the game. Who is with me?

 

[Snake29]

Source: Star Citizen Twitter page

 

[MattAces]

Source: Star Citizen Twitter page

I'm excited for another crazy demo showcase.
And holy shit, that red one demo was 2 years ago!

 

[Snake29]

I'm excited for another crazy demo showcase.
And holy shit, that red one demo was 2 years ago!

I can't wait for friday. Also the normal streams that begin on wednesday with the SC streamers are going to be awesome again.

 

[Trace]

Source: Star Citizen Twitter page

Damn they going all out this year.

Hope we finally get to see some SQ42 stuff.

 

[Crayon]

There's no official word and 2018 is super optimistic given past progress. They haven't even felt comfortable enough to share SQ42 progress for almost 2 years.

I mean, sure, maybe they will surprise everyone and do a stealth release. But late 2019 or mid 2020 seems more likely given they have such mismanagement. Unless they need to rush to generate more revenue, but I think it's more likely Chris Roberts starts taking external funding very quietly before he releases a half baked SQ42. He has no fear of going over budget and would probably do or say anything to get more funding. (Though I at least applaud that they are using the funds, even if poorly, rather than just taking the money and running.)

......

:3 okay I can wait. I've waited so long. I just want them to come through in the end.

 

[Peroroncino]

According to their updated TOS, what backers have now is considered a finished product ie "DONE".

But ignore that massive RED FLAG waving behind it!

wait, what? I'd like to see some receipts.

 

[PdotMichael]

Maybe a good showcase why having a publisher which demands progress is a good thing.

 

[Spuck-uk]

I'm just in for squadron 42. Nice to hear it will be out in 2018.

I'd be very, very surprised if Squadron 42 comes out in 2018 and isn't a 5/10 game

 

[Spuck-uk]

Maybe a good showcase why having a publisher which demands progress is a good thing.

Or why having a director at the helm who had to be kicked off his last major games project for going over time and budget isn't the greatest idea.

Though at this point the true believers are so deep into this that I don't know what would get them to see reality.

 

[Cyanity]

So is this about to turn into a giant shitshow or are we jumping the gun?

 

[Spuck-uk]

So is this about to turn into a giant shitshow or are we jumping the gun?

Apparently they're trying to update the build live at the show because it's unstable

So yes

 

[Akuun]

Apparently they're trying to update the build live at the show because it's unstable

So yes

That sounds like a terrible idea and something that should never have to be done. D:

 

[Grief.exe]

That sounds like a terrible idea and something that should never have to be done. D:

One of the reasons they struggle with development is they have to constantly shift resources to getting a playable, somewhat optimized vertical slice. That's actually not typical to do it so frequently in the industry and very difficult.

 

[superdeluxe]

I've just gotten to the point of not expecting to hear anything..

 

[Spuck-uk]

That sounds like a terrible idea and something that should never have to be done. D:

It is, which is why more..I want to say 'prepared' teams don't do this.