Benzychenz
Member
Eh it's easy to get destroyed by early bosses when you're still getting used to the game.
I managed to die to Dragonrider twice in DS2
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So it's my first time playing Dark Souls, and its not as difficult as I was expecting
- Thread starter mrmickfran
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Eh it's easy to get destroyed by early bosses when you're still getting used to the game.
I managed to die to Dragonrider twice in DS2
mrmickfran
Member
I'm not crazy enough to do that lol
BB is easier? Oh no
That's what happens when I start getting used to a game lol
OP at this point in the game the difficulty of this game has taken an extreme nose dive, let's get a thread when you manage to blast through DS3 in a week. The wealth of information available on souls at this point is one of the largest contributing factors to the neutering of the game. From your equipment to your build it is evident that you didn't do this 100% blind and I think that definitely contributes to the "lol easy game" mentality here.
I'm not trying to knock you, and I even part way agree with you that the game isn't "that bad" but c'mon man.. you make it sound like it's some kind of game for babies. Souls games are at their best when you are stumbling about in the dark not when they have been picked apart and math'd to hell and back. There were points in this games history where people didn't even understand what all the stats did, or what the benefits of individual pieces of gear were. I have a hard time believing that you have just managed to Forest Gump your way through the equipment and character building process as well.
I apologize if I come off as a dick with this post but I just wanted to speak my mind a bit, you have some definite game even as it stands now and good on you fine sir! Now if you do manage to completely obliterate DS3.. well I guess I will stand corrected - will happily eat crow..
I never said that it was 100% blind. Hell, the only reason why I even got into DS was because of some of the bosses. The only thing I knew about going into it were some bosses. It was easy for me because I explored every nook and cranny and apparently got the best weapon by accident.
Souls games are very subjective.
Dark Souls 2 vanilla game is easier however it's more frustrating to play for a couple of reasons. One, they think difficulty means large mobs of enemies and many bosses have mobs with them making them annoying to fight, and Two, a lot of very basic moves and things you might have relied on in the other games have either had their timings completely changed, (parries), or can't be performed reliably, (jump attack).
Also, all kinds of little weird quirks and what I can only describe as input glitches where quite often I'm pressing the button to switch weapons or use my healing item or dodge or whatever and nothing happens. My guy just stands there like a doofus and dies. I had this problem on PS3 DS2 and I'm currently playing through DS2 Sins of the First Scholar on PC and having the same exact issues.
Capra Demon is just a bullshit boss fight. It's no good. You go through the fog and pretty much start getting attacked before your camera even gets through the fog, the area is so small and there's some stupid ass tree in there and you can't see shit and it's all quite awful.
BB is easier? Oh no
I wouldn't fret. People seem to react to Bloodborne very differently. The ferocity of the enemies and bosses are cranked up to 11, however so are your abilities. You will no doubt run into a learning curve with it as well and it seems most people find the beginning of the game the most difficult part. Still though there is still the challenging optional dungeons you can do, although you have to play through a bunch of easy dungeons first to unlock the hard dungeons. Then you also have the DLC which hosts some of the most difficult enemies and bosses in any of the games.
Black Knight Sword is op.
I always play a damned high-ish intelligence moderate faith mage with polearms, longswords, and medium armor.
It looks like you went minmax with physical abilities and then using the BKSword, I could see how you would think the game is just an easy bashfest, because that's how you played it.
Go back and face that Asylum Demon and take your medicine.
edit: Artorias has a trick, if you jump out of the way at the last second during his flip sword slash cycle, you can game him and chip him down enough where you might be able to kill him easily. lucking on to that strategy the first time though means you must be an evasive low armor hi mobility hi damage player.
I always play a damned high-ish intelligence moderate faith mage with polearms, longswords, and medium armor.
It looks like you went minmax with physical abilities and then using the BKSword, I could see how you would think the game is just an easy bashfest, because that's how you played it.
Go back and face that Asylum Demon and take your medicine.
edit: Artorias has a trick, if you jump out of the way at the last second during his flip sword slash cycle, you can game him and chip him down enough where you might be able to kill him easily. lucking on to that strategy the first time though means you must be an evasive low armor hi mobility hi damage player.
Benzychenz
Member
Yeah, I found it hard at first, but once I got used to playing aggressively it became a breeze.
Yet to do the DLC though, putting it off because I can't be bothered having to do it on my NG+ save. On the bright side at least I didn't get up to NG+++ or anything
Slick Butter
Member
They can be very challenging at the beginning of the game, unless you spend time getting a +5 weapon before facing them solo. They were the only boss I was unable to solo in NG until my third playthrough.
I don't know how many times I died trying to fight them on my first playthrough, but it had to have been more than 10, and I gave up on the game for about 2 months. In contrast, O&S took me three tries on the first playthrough.
I can beat Battletoads and Contra fine and love those games. Ornstein and Smough took me a month to beat them. As I was trying to beat them, I thought this isn't fun, why am I putting myself through this, this will be the last thing I do in Dark Souls. After I beat them, I immediately turned the game off and never played it again.
I should say that I never had XBox online and so never had humanities to get Solaire.
I feel like the developer should pay me for the time I spent playing that.
mrmickfran
Member
It really does suffer without Miyazaki
You need to step up your Project Diva play now.
Intense Voice still bodies me. Not in a million years.
BB seems like it would be more of my game after coming from DMC/Bayonetta. I like that it's more action based.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
Zweihander is a great weapon against Oreos and S'mores. Does a ton of damage, great reach, and easily staggers Ornstein. All of the Black Knight weapons are incredibly strong too. I think part of it is you stumbled upon really good boss-killing weapons. Most people play the game as the default Knight or Warrior, which is sword and shield in full armor, and that is actually a rather difficult way to play the game.
Dark Souls isn't "hard" in the sense a character action game is, it's "hard" in that you need to know what you're walking into. Aside from Manus and occasionally Artorias depending on how his AI is behaving, none of the bosses or enemies require particularly fast reflexes to deal with. It will just kill you suddenly with little warning, or enemies will gang up on you or surprise you with attacks you didn't expect.
Dark Souls isn't "hard" in the sense a character action game is, it's "hard" in that you need to know what you're walking into. Aside from Manus and occasionally Artorias depending on how his AI is behaving, none of the bosses or enemies require particularly fast reflexes to deal with. It will just kill you suddenly with little warning, or enemies will gang up on you or surprise you with attacks you didn't expect.
No. Vanilla Dark 2 has more enemy mobs but they're very beatable. There's just a loud minority of nerds who whine about that and how it lacks the "Miyazaki touch."
mrmickfran
Member
OH MY GOD HOW DID I FORGET ABOUT THE STRAY DEMON
THAT FUCKER KILLED ME AT LEAST 20 TIMES AND I ALMOST QUIT THE GAME CAUSE OF HOW BULLSHIT IT WAS
I <3 <3 <3 the Zweihandler. I think I found that on accident too lol This thread has made me really curious about this Manus. Can't wait to meet him.
I'll just get SotFS on the notion that it's more polished
I plan on it.
THAT FUCKER KILLED ME AT LEAST 20 TIMES AND I ALMOST QUIT THE GAME CAUSE OF HOW BULLSHIT IT WAS
I <3 <3 <3 the Zweihandler. I think I found that on accident too lol This thread has made me really curious about this Manus. Can't wait to meet him.
I'll just get SotFS on the notion that it's more polished
I plan on it.
GamingOblivion
Banned
The Souls games are not that hard. People are spoiled with modern game design.
The difficulty of the games is often overstated, but a lot of early impressions are colored by the fact that many people go in blind and don't have the luxury of looking up boss strategies and optimal upgrade paths in a FAQ.
Playing a Souls game near launch when people have no idea what's going on and you're just as likely to get bad advice as good is the best.
Playing a Souls game near launch when people have no idea what's going on and you're just as likely to get bad advice as good is the best.
Cracklox
Member
Grats OP. Sounds like you got a handle on things quicker then I did. My 1st 5 hours or so in the game were spent fighting skeletons in the graveyard. At release they gave zero souls each as well. They took a good 10-15 hits to drop where I could take maybe 2 or 3. It wasn't until I managed to fight my way underground and they started to get rez'd that I realised something was wrong. Shoulda listened to the mopey guy at the camp who suggested to take the path up 1st........
The thing is, about all I knew about the game was it was dark fantasy RPG that was hard. So I thought battling them skellies was its definition of hard, when in actuality it was no-where near that bad. When I finally made my way up to the Burg, my 5 or so hours of battling foes I wasn't meant to be served me well. It was pretty eye opening being able to 2-3 shot fools all of a sudden.
As for your question, it may just be more of a reflection of gaming being more of a mainstream thing nowadays. A lot of people who may not have played too many challenging games got put in their place (as well as long time gaming vets like me) and the game earned a reputation. Its marketing tagline probably helped that too. Definetley a good challenge either way. I did faceroll most of the stuff after Anor Londo too though, but that was probably as much from being over leveled then anything else.
edit - oops. My copy/paste skills failed me and I accidently named this post a work related thing, Ignore that
The thing is, about all I knew about the game was it was dark fantasy RPG that was hard. So I thought battling them skellies was its definition of hard, when in actuality it was no-where near that bad. When I finally made my way up to the Burg, my 5 or so hours of battling foes I wasn't meant to be served me well. It was pretty eye opening being able to 2-3 shot fools all of a sudden.
As for your question, it may just be more of a reflection of gaming being more of a mainstream thing nowadays. A lot of people who may not have played too many challenging games got put in their place (as well as long time gaming vets like me) and the game earned a reputation. Its marketing tagline probably helped that too. Definetley a good challenge either way. I did faceroll most of the stuff after Anor Londo too though, but that was probably as much from being over leveled then anything else.
edit - oops. My copy/paste skills failed me and I accidently named this post a work related thing, Ignore that
RoadHazard
Gold Member
You should give DeS another try, it's an easier game. At least I thought so, but that might be because I had just beaten DkS right before jumping into it. DkS was my first Souls, so it was naturally the most challenging to get into for me (still the one I love the most).
Neoleo2143
Member
I suppose I'll repeat what Miyazaki has kept saying. Souls has never really been specifically about difficulty, it merely uses it to induce specific emotions in the player with various spikes and falls in difficulty in order set up memorable encounters.
The history of the Dark Souls series:
Casuals heard of the Souls games, they all flocked to it because the internet said it was popular. It isn't like CoD or Madden. It's actually a real game. "OMG, its the hardest thing in the world."
End of dramatization.
The series' difficulty explained.
Casuals heard of the Souls games, they all flocked to it because the internet said it was popular. It isn't like CoD or Madden. It's actually a real game. "OMG, its the hardest thing in the world."
End of dramatization.
The series' difficulty explained.
I found that the beginning was by far the most frustrating. Bell gargoyles was the only boss i used a summon for. Blighttown made me rage. Anor Londo archers were annoying. After that however the game wasn't that bad. Beat Ornstein & Smough solo on the fourth try, I had more trouble with the big guys outside the boss portal and just decided to run past them. I used a divine great club throughout the game, with black iron armor and eagle shield.
KCroxtonJr
Member
Yeah I always find it funny when people say the soulsborne games aren't as hard as people say, then mention they've died a ton of times lol.
Neither DS2 nor Bloodborne are too difficult after having tackled Dark Souls 1. Most of the difficulty is getting used to the control scheme and what the game expects while playing it. Once you're used to those quirks the games are considerably less difficult than advertised (still worth playing). I breezed through most of Dark Souls 1 when it first came out (Capra Demon was the only thing that gave me trouble, and only until I figured out how to get rid of the dogs) because I played Demon's Souls. To this day I still think Demon's Souls is the best in the series because it's the one that messes with the most factors of play (mostly by tendency, but also to some degree via the much more varied level design).I'll just get SotFS on the notion that it's more polished
Pretty much. They're really not that hard, they just make you think a little. Instead of holding forward like most other big games from last gen.
Off-Kilter
Banned
I've always said this about Souls games.
They're not hard, it's more like they punish sloppiness. With patience and quick thinking I found that they're not bad at all.
They're not hard, it's more like they punish sloppiness. With patience and quick thinking I found that they're not bad at all.
Benzychenz
Member
It's a 50+ hour game though.
poodaddy
Gold Member
If you played games in the 80's and 90's regularly then Souls games aren't going to be that hard for you honestly. I think the internet grossly exaggerates how hard the games are. They're challenging to be sure, but they're designed so perfectly to teach you the nuances of the mechanics that you should be steadily becoming better and better at properly dodging, backstabbing, managing resources, parrying, and utilizing magic and frame priority intelligently in a very natural way by the time you get to every new boss. The entire series, as a whole, is nowhere near as difficult as people make them out to be; they're just not friendly to impatient players or players who tend to be more defensive than offensive. Souls games are about attacking, not running; some players have a hard time learning that.
God I agree with this so hard. This game deserves a remaster on PS4. It's easily my favorite Souls game, and the hardest by a large margin as well. At 1080/60 it'd be nothing short of bliss.....or hell for scrubs. All the same really. I hope From would consider it. Does anyone know how successful Scholar of The First Sin was on PS4? If it did well I wonder if that would spark interest in From at the prospect of remastering Demon's and Dark for PS4. I don't know, probably not. But I can dream.
God I agree with this so hard. This game deserves a remaster on PS4. It's easily my favorite Souls game, and the hardest by a large margin as well. At 1080/60 it'd be nothing short of bliss.....or hell for scrubs. All the same really. I hope From would consider it. Does anyone know how successful Scholar of The First Sin was on PS4? If it did well I wonder if that would spark interest in From at the prospect of remastering Demon's and Dark for PS4. I don't know, probably not. But I can dream.
Depends on your perspective. 50 times is a lot compared to many hand holding modern games. Compared to some older games though that could kill you 50 times before you even beat their 1 hour completion time its not that bad.
I'll still say they're not that hard because I can always beat them with persistence and I'm not that great a player. There have been games so hard I could never beat them in a million years without resorting to emulator save state scumming. Dark Souls mostly just needs pacience and some basic pattern recognition skills.
What. What. What.
How do you kill Artorias on your first try and have so much trouble with the Stray Demon? I don't even...
That makes zero sense.
I mean, Artorias can kill you if you fuck up once while the Stray Demon is literally just the Asylum Demon with a dumb AoE attack that he telegraphs very clearly.
Or am I missing the sarcasm here?
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Bloodborne has by far the most unforgiving opening area though, IMO. I spent a lot of time before getting through that and beating the first boss (which I then did on my first try), having already beaten DeS and DkS before it. None of the Souls game have a "hump" nearly that challenging that you have to get over before you can really get going.
inoperativ
Member
I played DS2 before 1 and the only time I truly struggled was Ruin Sentinels, must have died ~30 times against them. After that the rest of 2 (and 1) felt pretty easy. They're definitely challenging games but the difficulty is hyped up a bit too much hahah.
A SL1 playthrough in Demon's Souls and Dark Souls is actually pretty fun. It's not much harder and you have to learn the bosses' movesets better which is really rewarding in its own.
On the other hand Dark Souls 2 and Bloodborne aren't that fun at that level imo, because they become too tedious. Bloodborne's enemies do a lot more damage than Souls' enemies to compensate for the health regain, so after half way through the game you end up getting killed in one hit by almost everything (which isn't the case in DeS/DaS). Dark Souls 2 on the other hand limits you too much (can't even carry a 100% physical shield or a decent weapon one handed) which is a pain in the ass.
BB is easier? Oh no
It's really not. The main stuff is about the same level of difficulty while the later Chalice dungeons and the DLC are harder than anything in DeS or DaS. Only DaS2's DLC comes close.
Yeah if you're used to playing games on normal difficulty it's a huge difference. But if you usually play games on higher than that it's definitely not out of the norm. Hell, I died 100 times on a single boss in Vanquish on God Hard.
KingdomHeartsFan
Member
Aside from Demon's Souls they aren't that hard, but people forgot video games can provide a challenge.
OmegaTreeFish
Banned
The difficulty is overstated by not only the internet but FromSofts own marketing team. They called it 'prepare to die edition' for gods sake.
Also AAA games these days try to appeal to as many people as possible and so are often no challenge at all. Take gears of war. In gears of war 2 they added casual difficulty because people complained easy was too hard..... think about that for a second.
I can only conclude that since gaming has evolved over time and brought in a larger audience there are a lot of people who enjoy games for reasons different to maybe people like my self. They want a cinematic experience they want to feel a part of. Interactive movies almost. It's things like this that have made these games seem super hard compared to other games. But in reality there are tons of games out there that are harder. They just don't target the largest audience possible in there design.
The hardest any of these games are is the first one you play and then only until you get it.
All their games range from easy to hard depending on many factors. Build, play style, do you summon, what drops you got.
Dark souls was my first and up until about the 5 hour mark I found it hard because I had no idea what I was doing. But once the combat clicked it became a moderate challenge for the most part. However my build was using the great club and I had no magic or other faster weapons upgraded. This made some bits super easy as I had crazy damage output per hit but others super hard (O&S) as I was so slow and had no magic buffs or support (didn't even have pyro stuff lol). I went back recently and started a dex and winged spear run and pretty much walked through the game until I stopped playing (after killing O&S).
By comparison I later found bloodborne less challenging, but now I have played DS again since, I would say DS is easier for the most part. Especially the bloodborne DLC as that has some of the hardest bosses in any of their games.
Then I played dark souls 2 and found it rather easy throughout. The DLC was a bit harder but still nothing super challenging.
But saying all that, its not the difficulty that makes these games great. It's how much fun they are to play.
Also AAA games these days try to appeal to as many people as possible and so are often no challenge at all. Take gears of war. In gears of war 2 they added casual difficulty because people complained easy was too hard..... think about that for a second.
I can only conclude that since gaming has evolved over time and brought in a larger audience there are a lot of people who enjoy games for reasons different to maybe people like my self. They want a cinematic experience they want to feel a part of. Interactive movies almost. It's things like this that have made these games seem super hard compared to other games. But in reality there are tons of games out there that are harder. They just don't target the largest audience possible in there design.
The hardest any of these games are is the first one you play and then only until you get it.
All their games range from easy to hard depending on many factors. Build, play style, do you summon, what drops you got.
Dark souls was my first and up until about the 5 hour mark I found it hard because I had no idea what I was doing. But once the combat clicked it became a moderate challenge for the most part. However my build was using the great club and I had no magic or other faster weapons upgraded. This made some bits super easy as I had crazy damage output per hit but others super hard (O&S) as I was so slow and had no magic buffs or support (didn't even have pyro stuff lol). I went back recently and started a dex and winged spear run and pretty much walked through the game until I stopped playing (after killing O&S).
By comparison I later found bloodborne less challenging, but now I have played DS again since, I would say DS is easier for the most part. Especially the bloodborne DLC as that has some of the hardest bosses in any of their games.
Then I played dark souls 2 and found it rather easy throughout. The DLC was a bit harder but still nothing super challenging.
But saying all that, its not the difficulty that makes these games great. It's how much fun they are to play.
SenseiAsad
Member
The difficulty of the Souls series is exaggerated by the obscene circlejerking over the game. The main thing about the game is that you need to figure out a bit more by yourself than you would in other games. I'd ignore playing the games for any expectation of difficulty, take them for what they do as an RPG with a fantasy setting.
T.Slothrop
Member
I think the games tend to have weird difficulty spikes. Like for me they're always very difficult upfront. Then get very easy by comparison in the back. I don't think it's because I "got gud" either.
I know people can beat the whole game on level 1, but frankly I think the games are kind of rigged to be overly hard at the start so you get a feeling of progression regardless of how much you may have actually improved.
I know people can beat the whole game on level 1, but frankly I think the games are kind of rigged to be overly hard at the start so you get a feeling of progression regardless of how much you may have actually improved.
While it is a bit odd, it's just that he simply got better at the game over time in combination with being a bit over leveled and had a badass weapon by the time he got to Artorias.
You got killed 30 times by the gargoyle and you found the difficulty "dissapointing"?
I don't know what you've read but people are not saying these are the hardest games in existence, just that they're harder than the average current AAA title (which isn't very complicated anyways), that they are quite punishing and that they manage difficulty like no one else by avoiding difficulty settings and artificial difficulty. You can beat the games if you have patience and use your mind instead of brainlessly rushing through like you do in most AAA.
I'd rather have an actually well-made and perfectly adjusted difficulty than some artificial "impossible" bullshit like the one in the highest difficulty settings of character action games or in RNG-filled garbo. There are no other games I've played that have such a perfect balance as the Souls games do. From doesn't need shitty difficulty settings.
I don't know what you've read but people are not saying these are the hardest games in existence, just that they're harder than the average current AAA title (which isn't very complicated anyways), that they are quite punishing and that they manage difficulty like no one else by avoiding difficulty settings and artificial difficulty. You can beat the games if you have patience and use your mind instead of brainlessly rushing through like you do in most AAA.
I'd rather have an actually well-made and perfectly adjusted difficulty than some artificial "impossible" bullshit like the one in the highest difficulty settings of character action games or in RNG-filled garbo. There are no other games I've played that have such a perfect balance as the Souls games do. From doesn't need shitty difficulty settings.
KeyChainDude
Member
Yeah, the difficulty of Souls games in general are pretty overhyped around the web.
People probably say it's too hard because they're used to go through entire campaigns without dying, but when you realise death in the series is a design consequence and not the "u suck" situation like in other games, you can see its difficulty is nothing out of the ordinary.
People probably say it's too hard because they're used to go through entire campaigns without dying, but when you realise death in the series is a design consequence and not the "u suck" situation like in other games, you can see its difficulty is nothing out of the ordinary.
Yeah, when I first played the game I was like "oh crap, Im going to die". After a while, it was more easy. Think I finished at like level 91 before starting NG+.
Bosses I had more problems were the last three bosses of the DLC (especially that dragon), Bed of Chaos, Taurus Demon (wasn't still gud back then) and the Stray Demon.
I also got lucky and got the Black Knight Sword when I revisited the Asylum, although I started using it after leaving the place and leveling strength.
But I learned that Souls games aren't that hard as people say. For example, I have a friend who is also playing Dark Souls and I let him play Bloodborne. Dude almost killed the Cleric Beast on first try (I distracted him though). Just need to have patience and dedication.
Bosses I had more problems were the last three bosses of the DLC (especially that dragon), Bed of Chaos, Taurus Demon (wasn't still gud back then) and the Stray Demon.
I also got lucky and got the Black Knight Sword when I revisited the Asylum, although I started using it after leaving the place and leveling strength.
But I learned that Souls games aren't that hard as people say. For example, I have a friend who is also playing Dark Souls and I let him play Bloodborne. Dude almost killed the Cleric Beast on first try (I distracted him though). Just need to have patience and dedication.
Free Roaming Chicken
Neo Member
This thread has me thinking about upcoming DS3... can't wait! It's gonna be gooooooood.
These games are not hard at all, its just that people are used to cinematic "press A for Awesome"-games where you basically cant die (and if you do, it wont punish you), so the contrast to meaningful challenge and punishing death, made people say the games are incredibly hard. Most games in the Nes-era were for instance much harder imo. But yeah, great games!
LegendofLex
Member
Outside of O&S, I think the difficulty of most of the bosses in Dark Souls (and Demon's Souls and Bloodborne) is dramatically overstated.
TBH, the bosses aren't generally the hard part for me anyway; it's becoming familiar with whatever build I'm using such that I don't make costly mistakes.
TBH, the bosses aren't generally the hard part for me anyway; it's becoming familiar with whatever build I'm using such that I don't make costly mistakes.