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[rhino4evr]

very early... just started the montain dungeon.. having a blast with it.

im also a huge sega fan but post dc am weary of them... they make some great games and a ton of crap.

still looking forward to re4... buf zelda first.

Zelda was fantastic, but the best is yet to come. Update us after completing dungeon 4.

 

[StoOgE]

Zelda was fantastic, but the best is yet to come. Update us after completing dungeon 4.

Yeah,

Im hoping it takes a turn for the "new" soon. While Im having a ton of fun with the game, it really feels like I'm playing OoT, except instead of switching forward in time, I go into a shadow world.

Its not a deal breaker, but its my only complaint right now.

Also, Nintendo really should have dont some work on these VC games. I enjoy being able to play these old classics.. but I wish they didnt auto stretch on wide screen sets, and I wish they fixed slow down bugs in games. I get that certain games pushed hardware to its limits, but the wii doesnt have those limits. They really should have cleaned some of that up.

 

[dark10x]

but I wish they didnt auto stretch on wide screen sets

They don't auto stretch. The image you are sending your TV is 4:3 to begin with as the Wii does not output a widescreen resolution.

 

[StoOgE]

They don't auto stretch. The image you are sending your TV is 4:3 to begin with as the Wii does not output a widescreen resolution.

Zelda and RE4 are 16:9 and there is an option for "widescreen" in the wii menu? Zelda even has boxes prior to starting up to make sure the settings are correct.

Is my TV doing the stretching then?

I guess my complaint then would be I wish the wii displayed black bars so I didnt have to change my TV settings every time I played a game in 4:3 (My TV doesnt auto detect what image size its getting)

 

[dark10x]

Zelda and RE4 are 16:9 and there is an option for "widescreen" in the wii menu? Zelda even has boxes prior to starting up to make sure the settings are correct.

Is my TV doing the stretching then?

I guess my complaint then would be I wish the wii displayed black bars so I didnt have to change my TV settings every time I played a game in 4:3 (My TV doesnt auto detect what image size its getting)

Yes, your TV is doing the stretching, not the Wii. The image is still 4:3.

If the games were to have black bars, the actual resolution would be very thin. Image quality would suffer. When stretching 480p to fill the screen, you are also increasing the width of the pixels. Image quality is sacrified by stretching Wii games to 16:9 (though it is worthwhile regardless). In order to add black bars, the game would have to render itself into a smaller pixel area.

 

[StoOgE]

Yes, your TV is doing the stretching, not the Wii. The image is still 4:3.

If the games were to have black bars, the actual resolution would be very thin. Image quality would suffer. When stretching 480p to fill the screen, you are also increasing the width of the pixels. Image quality is sacrified by stretching Wii games to 16:9 (though it is worthwhile regardless). In order to add black bars, the game would have to render itself into a smaller pixel area.

Some games definitely render 16x9 480p (480p refering to horizontal lines, not vertical) though. Zelda isnt stretched at all, there are no geometry issues resulting from it rendering in wide screen. So if you set your Wii to widescreen, certain games that have the ability to render a 16x9 image will. Its not HD, its whats refered to as EDTV (alot of plasmas a few years back were sold as 16x9 480p EDTV sets).

Also, adding black bars to the sides of games rendered 4:3 wouldnt hurt the resolution. If you set your Wii to widescreen the game could still render in 4:3 and they could add black bars to the sides of the image filling out the remainder of the 16:9 image. Just like cable boxes do when viewing 4:3 material when outputting a 16:9 image.

Obviously if you dont set your wii to widescreen, no black bars would be added to the sides, and you would just get a normal 4:3 image.

 

[dark10x]

Some games definitely render 16x9 480p (480p refering to horizontal lines, not vertical) though. Zelda isnt stretched at all, there are no geometry issues resulting from it rendering in wide screen.

Also, adding black bars to the sides of games rendered 4:3 wouldnt hurt the resolution. If you set your Wii to widescreen the game could still render in 4:3 and they could add black bars to the sides of the image filling out the remainder of the 16:9 image. Just like cable boxes do when viewing 4:3 material.

You don't understand...

The image is designed to be viewed in 16:9, but the actual resolution is still 640x480 (a 4:3 resolution). The image is compressed into 4:3 and the TV must then stretch it. As a 4:3 image, you are increasing pixel width when filling your screen and reducing image quality.

With HD resolutions, the actual pixel count results in a widescreen image. With 480p that is not the case. Every Wii game is limited to a maximum of 640x480 pixels. No matter which setting is selected, the Wii is rendering and outputting a 4:3 pixel resolution. When 16:9 is selected, the image data is squished to allow for stretching...but that doesn't mean the actual pixel count changes.

If you wanted to render a game with black bars on the Wii, you'd effectively be decreasing the 640 pixel count.

 

[Evlar]

You don't understand...

The image is designed to be viewed in 16:9, but the actual resolution is still 640x480 (a 4:3 resolution). The image is compressed into 4:3 and the TV must then stretch it. As a 4:3 image, you are increasing pixel width when filling your screen and reducing image quality.

With HD resolutions, the actual pixel count results in a widescreen image. With 480p that is not the case. Every Wii game is limited to a maximum of 640x480 pixels.

Also, this isn't unique to Wii. This is known as anamorphic widescreen, and is used by most progressive-scan DVD players (thouch sometimes 704x480 is used, depending on the source).

 

[dark10x]

Also, this isn't unique to Wii. This is known as anamorphic widescreen, and is used by most progressive-scan DVD players.

I'm aware of this, of course, but we are simply discussing the Wii. All 480i/p material is rendered in a 4:3 resolution.

 

[StoOgE]

With HD resolutions, the actual pixel count results in a widescreen image. With 480p that is not the case. Every Wii game is limited to a maximum of 640x480 pixels.

edit: nvm, I get what you are saying.

Thats really really lame way of doing it.

I thought it was rendering a 853 x 480 resolution.. but its not.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

This conversation needs some bikini girls or some cars crashing or something.

 

[AstroLad]

I hate to say it, but the IQ on the Wii really keeps me from turning it on sometimes, especially when I have Wii-ish games on other systems (MNG5, Bomberman Live, etc.). It's not that I need OMG $100m next-gen TRUEFULLHD Graphics; I just want nice IQ even if it's freaking Pac-Man: CE. Just makes for a more enjoyable playing experience to me.

 

[TheGreatDave]

I can't bare to play Wii on an LCD screen because it just looks terrible. On an SD I have few complaints.

 

[dark10x]

Im fairly certain you are wrong. 480 has nothing to do with the vertical lines. you could have a 853 x 480 image (16x9) image and it would still be 480p. This is what EDTV's were.

Im very very sure this is what Zelda:TP outputs as. If it was "stretching" a 4:3 image, those boxes you look at when the game starts would look like rectangles, not squares.

NO no no.

They simply design elements of the visuals to compensate for stretching. The system is not outputting 853x480.

If you expect stretching, you design for it.

If you wanted a box in 16:9, you'd then decrease the width of that object. It will appear thin at its native resolution then and, upon stretching to 16:9, will appear as a proper square. That's how anamorphic widescreen works.

We had such display options back in the N64/PSX/Saturn days. Did you know NiGHTS and Panzer Dragoon Zwei both offer 16:9 modes? The resolution is extremely low in that case (probably around 320x224 or something), but it still functions just as I said.

edit: I see you got it.

I hate to say it, but the IQ on the Wii really keeps me from turning it on sometimes, especially when I have Wii-ish games on other systems (MNG5, Bomberman Live, etc.). It's not that I need OMG $100m next-gen TRUEFULLHD Graphics; I just want nice IQ even if it's freaking Pac-Man: CE. Just makes for a more enjoyable playing experience to me.

Agreed. Nice image quality makes a big difference.

I would be perfectly fine with Wii visuals if they were rendered in 720p, for instance. I mean, they'd still be behind, but at least they would feel clean.

 

[StoOgE]

that actually explains why the image looks so much better on my friends 4:3 TV.

I may set my Wii to 4:3 and my TV to 4:3 as well tonight and see how big of an improvement I get.

I would be perfectly fine with Wii visuals if they were rendered in 720p, for instance. I mean, they'd still be behind, but at least they would feel clean.

agreed.

 

[mrklaw]

Yes, your TV is doing the stretching, not the Wii. The image is still 4:3.

If the games were to have black bars, the actual resolution would be very thin. Image quality would suffer. When stretching 480p to fill the screen, you are also increasing the width of the pixels. Image quality is sacrified by stretching Wii games to 16:9 (though it is worthwhile regardless). In order to add black bars, the game would have to render itself into a smaller pixel area.

but considering those games were from Noah's Ark, most would be running at 320 horizontal resolution, so you could pillarbox for them to appear correct on a 16:9 zoomed TV and you wouldn't lose any resolution.

Its one benefit of being so lofi - you can still use your zoom controls on the TV to correct it (but yes it is annoying)

 

[Slavik81]

The VC is better than XBLA and PSN for retro games because of better emulation and the fact that it is the original version of the game, untouched and untainted, exactly as you remember it!

I'd agree... Except it needs to give rumble/memory card support. Some games will be totally unplayable because you'll not be able to save.

 

[epmode]

The VC is better than XBLA and PSN for retro games because of better emulation and the fact that it is the original version of the game, untouched and untainted, exactly as you remember it!

This is some amazing spin, but I'm sure you know that most XBLA ports (not sure about PSN as I only have one game) include the ability to play in an "original mode". Untouched and untainted, in other words.

 

[Jammy]

This is some amazing spin, but I'm sure you know that most XBLA ports (not sure about PSN as I only have one game) include the ability to play in an "original mode". Untouched and untainted, in other words.

I'd say the strength of the VC is moreso its constant stream of titles (three a week) and consistent quality with a number of those games (Wave Race 64, Super Metroid, Devil's Crush, etc. all coming in the span of a month).

 

[Gigglepoo]

Does anyone mind if I ask a random Wii question in here? Can you remove the navigation buttons in Opera?

 

[Christine]

yeah same, on all counts. A better quality speaker is a wiimote hack I would be really interested in

I don't know if it would help that much. I think that the poor sound quality heard from the remote in Zelda:TP is actually a software problem, because all of the reloading sounds in RE4 sound fucking awesome at any volume, and the knife "whooshes" never pop or crackle.

Does anyone mind if I ask a random Wii question in here? Can you remove the navigation buttons in Opera?

Yes, you can set them to autohide or you can manually turn them off with a button.

 

[Endgegner]

This is some amazing spin, but I'm sure you know that most XBLA ports (not sure about PSN as I only have one game) include the ability to play in an "original mode". Untouched and untainted, in other words.

Aren't some games very sloppy ports to the xbox360 tho? Sonic for example, which runs pretty much perfect on wii in contrast, according to 1up?

 

[Gigglepoo]

Yes, you can set them to autohide or you can manually turn them off with a button.

Which button? Where is the autohide option?

 

[Christine]

Which button? Where is the autohide option?

Open the internet channel and go to the "Start Page".

Click on "Settings". You can choose 1 of three options:

1 - Toolbar always displayed

2 - Autohide toolbar

3 - Show/hide toolbar with "1" button.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

but considering those games were from Noah's Ark, most would be running at 320 horizontal resolution, so you could pillarbox for them to appear correct on a 16:9 zoomed TV and you wouldn't lose any resolution.

It would be uneven, though. Using a 320x240 game as example, to resize it to a 480x480 portion of a 640x480 frame would introduce horizontal blur.

 

[zbarron]

You don't understand...

The image is designed to be viewed in 16:9, but the actual resolution is still 640x480 (a 4:3 resolution). The image is compressed into 4:3 and the TV must then stretch it. As a 4:3 image, you are increasing pixel width when filling your screen and reducing image quality.

With HD resolutions, the actual pixel count results in a widescreen image. With 480p that is not the case. Every Wii game is limited to a maximum of 640x480 pixels. No matter which setting is selected, the Wii is rendering and outputting a 4:3 pixel resolution. When 16:9 is selected, the image data is squished to allow for stretching...but that doesn't mean the actual pixel count changes.

If you wanted to render a game with black bars on the Wii, you'd effectively be decreasing the 640 pixel count.

How do you know this? Everything I read and all screenshots I've seen disagree with you. Do you have a link or something?

Are you saying that IGN took the screenshot in 16:9 mode and then later stretched the resolution?

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

How do you know this? Everything I read and all screenshots I've seen disagree with you. Do you have a link or something?

Because that's how anamorphic widescreen works. From personal experience I can say that viewing a stretched 16:9 image is slightly less clear than viewing a non-stretched 4:3 image at the same resolution in the center of the screen.

Are you saying that IGN took the screenshot in 16:9 mode and then later stretched the resolution?

Yes, or maybe the capture program just has an anamorphic setting to make it automatic. Why would they choose to show it in squeezed form?

 

[AdmiralViscen]

Aren't some games very sloppy ports to the xbox360 tho? Sonic for example, which runs pretty much perfect on wii in contrast, according to 1up?

Those aren't even the same game.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Those aren't even the same game.

Wait, what? I haven't downloaded either (Sonic = lame) but I assumed they were identical. What's the deal?

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Endgegner was talking about Genesis Sonic the Hedgehog on VC/XBLA, not to be confused with X360 "Sonic the Hedgehog" and Wii "Sonic and the Secret Rings". I don't know how the downloaded games differ.

 

[Innotech]

This conversation needs some bikini girls or some cars crashing or something.