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So Persona 1 and 2

Sgt. Kabukiman said:
I couldn't get past the first couple hours of Persona 1.

Persona 2: Innocent Sin has a great and tragic story with fantastic characters but boy, is it a chore to play. And the tone of the story goes from incredibly dark to wacky anime comedy all the time but the mix doesn't really work imo, unlike in other Persona games. I never finished Eternal Punishment.

I'd say that Persona 2 is still worth playing but Soul Hackers is the superior SMT game from that era without a doubt.
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Soul Hackers is a masterpiece. Probably my favourite localization job by Atlus USA as well, the lines of dialogue by the demons in that game are on another level from before, they were hilarious. P2: Innocent Sin has probably the best storyline from that era of Atlus though.

Not played Eternal Punishment to the end yet, was hoping the fan translation of the PSP version would have been out by now, but oh well.
 
Sumio Mondo said:
Not played Eternal Punishment to the end yet, was hoping the fan translation of the PSP version would have been out by now, but oh well.
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Yeah, I'm still waiting or that myself. I tried the PS1 classic version on my Vita but it's kinda hard to go back to. They did a nice job on the Innocent Sin remake, it's a lot more playable.
 
Sumio Mondo said:
I played P2 after P4 and much preferred the storyline to P4's, even though P4's was good and enjoyable. Eikichi ("that's Michel to you") is also my favourite Persona character. The dude carries an El Mariachi guitar case, complete with a gun inside and has some funny quotes and interactions throughout. P2 cast overall were a big step up from your normal JRPG stereotypes.



You do realise that Soejima did the in-game character artwork for P2, right? Kaneko just did the concepts (which aren't in the games), he was basically training Soejima on that game.

And the music is far superior to latter entries too. Especially the remixed PSP music, a lot of it being done by the SMTIV composer, Kozuka. Crazy Party is a cracking tune. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrWWN1voPic P2 has probably my favourite JRPG soundtrack, outside of well, Meguro's other stuff like Digital Devil Saga 1 & 2 and Sakimoto's OSTs like FFT and Vagrant Story.

There's plenty of those slice of life moments it's just got a more cynical presentation than P4's optimistic feel and missing the S-Links so does the whole character development, having it more tied to the linear narrative than as a separate thing. I just found P2's narrative more tight and better paced than P4's loose narrative that sometimes really threw filler after filler at the player. I liked both game's casts pretty much equally. P3, I only played a little of so far and the only one I've not beat yet.

As far as P1 goes, the artwork is definitely some of Kaneko's weakest but the music (PSX version) is 90s dance and ambient, so if you're like me who loves that sort of stuff, cheese and all, will like it a lot. The story is pretty good but the weakest in the series. It has a certain atmosphere and mystique to it though. Also, the PSP version's music (by Meguro) of P1 really grew on me over time. I didn't mind the gameplay, being as how I'm used to SMT.
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Oh yeah, I know. I'm a pretty big fan of Soejima's stuff, so I know most of the stuff he's worked on. But even though it's the same artist, he had no influence on the designs for the main characters, so it's not in his art style and it's not his designs. Part of what makes Persona's designs appealing is a really solid sense of current fashion, which runs really contrary to Kaneko's bizarre obsession with dressing characters in one-colour outfits.

And it's fine if you like it more, but I don't think it's unfair to say that it's less appealing to the majority of players. P3 and P4 get a loooooot of praise for their music.
I'd also argue that most of Kozuka's stuff is anything but appealing, but that just be preference.

SatelliteOfLove said:
There's great in there too!

Note also I have an undying love for P1's fuzzy 90s cybersynth dreamscape melieu.
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Konishi's Deadline mix is so much better. That guitar solo makes the track.
 
They've aged poorly IMO. Atlus just crams so much stuff into each game it's hard to go back. They really should just do a full remake of 1 & 2. I love the music in the remasters though.
 
Honestly 3 and 4 are SMT games in name only. That's what I attribute to the broad success. The series is still pretty fucking niche beyond those.
 
Persona 1 is terrible. Can't believe Atlus was able to make a series out of it.

Persona 2 is so god damn good tho. I have had the sequel to Innocent Sin for years but haven't gotten to play it yet. Still waiting for the remake to get translated.
 
Nothing wrong with them as P1 and P2: EP are still the two best games in the series. Hell, P2:EP is still the PlayStation RPG ever made. They're just more gameplay focused with more focused on more well-written primary narratives than the later games with their social links and explicitly laid-out character development templates.
 
Persona 1 and 2 take much more from the classic 90s SMT games in terms of gameplay than Persona 3 and 4 do. So revisting those games for a lot of people is harder especially if you're expecting it to be anything like P3 and P4.

I honestly don't know why they don't at least use or reference the characters more from P1 or P2. Perhaps it's because a majority of the staff that worked on the recent persona games didn't work on the classic persona games.
 
Zareka said:
They didn't age very well. Persona 2 is still great but 1 not so much. Both still worth checking out though.
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Yep. I missed at their original time (didn't get into megaton until SMT3) and going back I made it through about half of P1 and bailed, gameplay was just not much fun and there wasn't much story either.

Haven't gotten to P2 yet, but one day I'll play both parts for the story despite the very dated gameplay.

I feel the same way about SMT1, the gameplay is just too dated. Getting into megaton at SMT3 spoiled all the previous ones because of the gameplay advancements with press turn. Although I hear the Soul Hackers 3DS gameplay still holds up so I've got that in my backlog to get to at some point.
 
KLoWn said:
I haven't played the first, but the combat in 2 is sooo fuuuckin sloooooow. Add to that that the encounter rate is turned up to 11. You take like two steps and get jumped.
Other than that it was a pretty good game, I liked the story. I only played Innocent Sin though, Eternal Punishment doesn't seem to be available on Vita.
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This was my problem with the game, and in addition to that something was unclear about the combat to me (probably just when I was supposed to negotiate). Add a pretty bland art style and I didn't make it very far.

I'd say the biggest thing the latter two games have over the first two isn't "lol waifus" but great UI/menus and a map that is more enjoyable to navigate. That's huge for me.
 
Dangansona said:
This was my problem with the game, and in addition to that something was unclear about the combat to me (probably just when I was supposed to negotiate). Add a pretty bland art style and I didn't make it very far.

I'd say the biggest thing the latter two games have over the first two isn't "lol waifus" but great UI/menus and a map that is more enjoyable to navigate. That's huge for me.
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Well yeah. I don't think anyone is debating that p3/4/5 are better because their stories/characters. It's the gameplay both in depth, speed and presentation that's advanced leaps and bounds since the first two.
 
I beat the PSP remaster of the original Persona (the main path - not Ice Queen) and feel OK saying it's good to skip. You'd be better off playing Strange Journey in all honesty if you just wanted a good dungeon crawler.
 
robotrock said:
1 probably doesn't deserve any attention these days
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I think Persona 1 is more playable at this point than many older RPGs are, especially if we're talking the PSP version. It absolutely still deserves attention, especially from real SMT fans (those not just here for anime-era Persona).


Dantis said:
Meguro's stuff is, broadly speaking, leagues ahead.
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I love Meguro's stuff, but refuse to live in a world where it's considered "leagues ahead" of P1's original OST.
 
Short answer is that they're not half dating sim and thus don't have the "mass appeal" 3, 4 and 4 do. They're not as stylish either, so they're not as attractive. Still, it's hilarious when people shame P3/4 fans for being casual and liking happier games when P1 is among the most upbeat Megaten titles around.

P1 is pretty interesting, but unless you know japanese, its original score is locked behind the awful PS1 localization. The PSP enhanced port is far superior in every sense, but they changed the soundtrack completely... As in they're not even remixes, just straight up different songs sans a couple exceptions. I love the new OST but it can be a turnoff for some. Gameplay is not fantastic but not as dated as the visuals, and it's extremely fast too with a fast forward option even; overall the game is pretty easy and short, I recommend it.

P2 duology, IMO, play terribly and even if you manage to find enjoyment in it, it's still extremely slow, but they have the best writing in any Atlus RPG and the characters and themes are wonderful and ahead of their time. P2 Eternal Punishment specifically has my favorite cast in an RPG ever.

P2 duology is far better than modern Persona when it comes to writing for sure, so they're worth checking out at least via Youtube for that alone9. It's worth noting tho that P1 is very good and is heavily connected to its sequels, so skipping it is not advised unless you seriously can't stand how it plays/looks.

Oh, and all three game have fantastic music, especially P2, but goddamn, Innocent Sin also happens to feature my favorite opening ever:

https://youtu.be/EPKXEF1z5ac
 
I wish for the re releases that they updated the combat to something similar to 3&4 or even better, turn press. The combat was too slow for me.
 
Amazing games that compared to other jrpgs of that era are more than playable, yes P2 unfortunately has slow battles and it's the only major flaw in my opinion. They destroy the modern Personas in both story and characters, especially Eternal Punishment is amazing and in my opinion has overall the best cast and scenes of all the megaten games.

The best overall megaten that they released since then is in my opinion Strange Journey, it has everything i wanted, superb and fast battle system without press turn, good soundtrack, and dungeon design that is worth your time and that is huge for me, in the majority of smt games i didnt really enjoy them, and last but not least solid story and characters, not on the level of P2 but not far away.

So give them a chance, especially the P2 duology!!

i love maya's theme and both sumaru map themes, and this bgm here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UA5do9wJR0
 
1 and 2 were good bu 3 and 4 are on a whole nother level.


Played the PSP versions of 1 and 2 Innocence , liked it specifically the first one, got me hooked into the series to where I played the first 3 in a row.

Still need to play P2 Eternal Punishment - already finished 1 portable, 2 Innocent sin , 3 portable and 4 on PS2.


Cant wait for 5 :)
 
I love Persona 1 on the PSP for some reason. I had a lot of fun with the game, except the part in the caves under the shrine. That part annoyed the crap outta me. I even restarted the game on the Vita, going through the Snow Queen Quest. The story was decent, though I liked the manga's interpretation much better.

Innocent Sin PSP on the hand, I hated, mostly for the encounter rate, but also because the game was way too easy. I never had any trouble in the battles, everything died in a turn, rarely two, but the encounter rate was still pretty annoying. The story was okay, though I thought it was really obvious really on what's going on.

Still waiting for the fan translation of EP PSP to play through EP.
 
NormalFish said:
Honestly 3 and 4 are SMT games in name only. That's what I attribute to the broad success. The series is still pretty fucking niche beyond those.
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Only outside of Japan did the SMT label get slapped on P3 and P4's boxes. But with Persona 4 The Golden and P5, Atlus USA has dropped that false pretense.
 
They're really old games, and the combat has aged with them.

There are people in the community thread that say P2's plot is the best of all the games though.

P3/P4 is just everyone's entry point.
 
the consesus seems to be that story and characters are superior than in the modern personas, and that the gameplay is more enjoyable in p3 and p4.

But something i can't get over it is that for the most people it's accepable like that, the dungeons for example are really mediocre in p3 and p4, the ones in p1 and p2 are at lest more interesting thematically speaking.

Yes the battle system is superior, but looking and at the difficulty level and the lack of demon negotiations, it's average compared to other battle systems in the series like Nocturne, Strange Journey and so on.

I know that P5 improves on them and hopefully don't feel as repetitive as in P3 and P4, but it's not something that merits much praise. So yes P3 and P4 has solid/average battle system and dungeons but inferior characters and story, so decide for yourself what is more important to you.
 
Dantis said:
Meguro's stuff is, broadly speaking, leagues ahead.

The battle themes alone in the old games fluctuate between awfully mediocre to downright bad.

I do like Maya's theme though. Especially the P2 IS PSP remixes of it.
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I guess it's going to blow your mind when you find out that Meguro composed for Persona 1. Now you'll have to find some other way to look down your nose at it.
 
I played Persona 2: Eternal Punishment years ago. Not sure why I started with it...might have been only one available in English at the time? Either way, I really loved it. Especially the Joker. If I had any skill, I would have attempted a Halloween costume of him, but I couldn't even handle getting a paper bag to look like his mask. Anywho, I got damn near to the end of EP and lost my save....and I've never gone back. Maybe someday I'll try again.
 
Still can't believe Atlus didn't localize the PSP port of Eternal Punishment. Especially considering they released Gungnir and Growlanser in the system's twilight.
 
Persona 2 would be much better served as a pure visual novel because actually playing the game was an exercise in masochism for me. God damn was it bad. I loved everything else about it, so it was a shame.
 
Shig said:
Still can't believe Atlus didn't localize the PSP port of Eternal Punishment. Especially considering they released Gungnir and Growlanser in the system's twilight.
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For Gungnir, they had a deal with Sting. As for Growlanser, I guess they wanted to give it a shot. They cut all of the VA to save budget, and it tanked, so I hope everyone is happy.
 
Persona 1 is okay I beater the game but I missed out on that Ice Queen (or whatever it's called) mission. Persona 2 I haven't finish beating the game but I like it more that Persona 1. I kind of get confused on where to go sometimes and the random encounters though....(that's probably why I took a long break from the game).
 
Aeana said:
For Gungnir, they had a deal with Sting. As for Growlanser, I guess they wanted to give it a shot. They cut all of the VA to save budget, and it tanked, so I hope everyone is happy.
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I didn't realize there was a PSP game of Growlanser. I still have my Working Designs collection. I bought them blind because I supported anything WD did, and loved the games. I should've looked more into the series.
 
Omega Kirby said:
Whats up with them, it's always 3 and 4 that get all the love and attention.

Whats wrong with the first two? Just inferior in every way possible or they aged terribly?

Edit:
Adolf hitler is a boss in persona 2, WTF
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The gameplay is the big thing.

Persona 1 has mediocre gameplay, though it's definitely enjoyable.

Persona 2's gameplay is awful, awful, awful, awful, awful. Which is a damn shame because the characters and setting are arguably the strongest in the series (and worth playing for that reason alone imo) but even by 90s RPG standards, it's incredibly bad.
 
I can't speak to P1 but the P2 duology on PSP was my introduction to the series.

I definitely think the P2 games have a texture to their characters and stories that aren't quite there in P3/P5 (never played P4), but holy moly is the gameplay rough. The PSP version of EP mercifully added speed-up options but it's still nothing to write home about.

I also wasn't super in love with the dungeons. I liked them more than P3 but P5 blows them out of the water (which, I mean, you'd hope as much lol)

I think one of my favorite small things in the duology (though it's not that small) is the absurd amount of side dialogue with your party. They'd have different things to say at just about any shop/non-dungeon area and they would change what they said pretty darn often as you advanced through the story. Not as focused as social links but still a good way to work in smaller character stuff.
 
Is Eternal Punishment actually available in English? On a modern system?

What's the relationship between the two P2 games? It it worthwhile playing Innocent Sin without it?
 
deadfolk said:
Is Eternal Punishment actually available in English? On a modern system?

What's the relationship between the two P2 games? It it worthwhile playing Innocent Sin without it?
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It's available as a PS1 Classic on PS3, PSP and Vita. They're direct sequels, and IS comes first
 
Never played the first game, but I loved the P2 duology.

The combat isn't for everyone though and I can understand why some may not like it.
 
Aeana said:
I guess it's going to blow your mind when you find out that Meguro composed for Persona 1. Now you'll have to find some other way to look down your nose at it.
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Not really?
I'm quite aware that Meguro composed for Persona 1. But Meguro didn't really get good until Maken, and current Meguro is miles different from Persona 1 Meguro (which as far as I'm aware was his first game?). Persona 1's music is bad, and I am far from alone in that opinion, and you know it as well as I do.
 
P2 is a game that could use a remake, I enjoyed those bits I saw in between the absurdly frequent random battles.

I bought the duology together but gave up on EP while still halfway through IS. "Dated" is still too nice to describe that gameplay.
 
Can't say much about Persona 1 as I've only played a bit of it, but both parts of Persona 2 are some of my favorite games ever. The gameplay is indeed painful but the story, characters, and music are more than enough to make it worthwhile.

As for why they aren't popular, you are comparing them to Persona 3 and 4 which are abnormally popular, given their genre. The social aspects and high school life are what made these well known. They are very different games to Persona 2, despite the name.

Personally I far prefer Persona 2.
 
Dantis said:
Not really?
I'm quite aware that Meguro composed for Persona 1. But Meguro didn't really get good until Maken, and current Meguro is miles different from Persona 1 Meguro (which as far as I'm aware was his first game?). Persona 1's music is bad, and I am far from alone in that opinion, and you know it as well as I do.
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I didn’t claim you were the only person. I’m well aware of the number of people who sneer at Persona 1.

I personally quite like a lot of the soundtrack. Especially this track.
 
Dantis said:
Not really?
I'm quite aware that Meguro composed for Persona 1. But Meguro didn't really get good until Maken, and current Meguro is miles different from Persona 1 Meguro (which as far as I'm aware was his first game?). Persona 1's music is bad, and I am far from alone in that opinion, and you know it as well as I do.
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a community of anime-loving 20 year olds who prefer cheesy engrish butt rock with simple chords doesn't make revelations: persona music bad lol
 
Aeana said:
I didn’t claim you were the only person. I’m well aware of the number of people who sneer at Persona 1.

I personally quite like a lot of the soundtrack. Especially this track.
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This track is pretty okay.

I think fidelity is a huge part of my problem with it. The P2 OSTs were much better when they were redone with modern sampling for the PSP releases.
 
Dantis stop being wrong

Not only is Persona's 1 OST fantastic, it's far more thematically relevant than P1P's soundtrack. P1P's soundtrack barely suits the game's tone and atmosphere

Shit, P1P has even less songs in addition to being worse (RIP character themes)

And this is coming from someone who really enjoyed P1P's soundtrack
 
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