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So the Knack 2 Demo is... pretty damn good.

Did you even read what he wrote? If he can state my taste is bad because I didn't enjoy these games then I can state that his taste is bad because he did.
Strange how opinions work. Seems like you failed to understand what they are.

Yes, actually I did. I also read his follow up, which paints his point in a much different light than yours. He seems to be talking about the constriction of opinions over time versus childhood such that we call games now bad that we wouldn't back then and instead would just accept and play them.

I don't even agree with him really but you calling out bad taste hits a different argument (a much more opinion focused one and one that actually doesn't entirely go against his point), hence me addressing you.
 
Yes, actually I did. I also read his follow up, which paints his point in a much different light than yours. He seems to be talking about the constriction of opinions over time versus childhood such that we call games now bad that we wouldn't back then and instead would just accept and play them.

I don't even agree with him really but you calling out bad taste hits a different argument (a much more opinion focused one and one that actually doesn't entirely go against his point), hence me addressing you.

Why do you take his second post into consideration while adressing my first then?
His initial statement was: "People just have bad taste for videogames this gen, when we used to play NES, PS1 level of shit not to long ago. ", making him calling out bad taste, which is what you strangely accuse me of because I didn't make a second post at the point of your response.

And that's what I responded to. So in that context there's really not much difference in the way we stated our opinions. He called out bad taste and I called out bad taste, we just disagree on what bad taste actually is.
 
Why do you take his second post into consideration while adressing my first then?
His initial statement was: "People just have bad taste for videogames this gen, when we used to play NES, PS1 level of shit not to long ago. "

And that's what I responded to. So in that context there's really not much difference in the way we stated our opinions. He called out bad taste and I called out bad taste, we just disagree on what bad taste is.

Because his first post has the "NES levels of shit" part indicating that his meaning is different than yours. The follow up post then reaffirms that.
 
Because his first post has the "NES levels of shit" part indicating that his meaning is different than yours. The follow up post then reaffirms that.

I don't even know what's that supposed to mean. So because he finds all NES games shit it's suddenly a worthwile opinion and mine isn't? Again, my response you found so hilarious was to his first post, not his follow up. There also were great games back then, and bad ones. Just like in the PS1 era he also mentions. If his opinion is that all those NES games were bad while also saying that only straight up broken games are bad to him that doesn't make too much sense either.

His follow up post also claims that bad games weren't called bad back then, which is straight up wrong. To say people just played E.T or Bubsy 3D back then instead of today where people complain about so stellar games like Knack and the Order is what I find hilarious.

My follow up post then tries to make something out of his weird definition of bad games/taste, instead of just saying how he got bad taste. Wonder why you ignore that one. Seems to have altered the meaning of my first one as well no?

I really don't get how his stance is a normal opinion and mine isn't. I you really want to say it's because he spoke about something else while I attacked him directly maybe read the last sentence of his follow up post again. How is that related to the argument you say he was going for lol.

I'll stop here now because this is off topic as fuck.
 
I don't even know what's that supposed to mean, because there were great games back then, and bad ones. Just like in the PS1 era he also mentions. If his opinion is that all those NES games were bad while also saying that only straight up broken games are bad to him that doesn't make too much sense either.

His follow up post also claims that bad games weren't called bad back then, which is straight up wrong.
My follow up post then tries to make something out of his weird definition of bad games/taste, instead of just saying how he got bad taste. Wonder why you ignore that one. Seems to have altered the meaning of my first one as well no?
I really don't get how his stance is a normal opinion and mine isn't because he speaks about games in the past and i speak about games in the present.

I'm not ignoring anything, just calling out something specific. His post makes sense when you look at it from the lens of nostalgia (again, not that I agree with it). The argument is that people, when young, played games without being overly critical of them. They were thus able to enjoy games, even ones considered "bad". This, according to him, is different now as people are more critical, more constrictive in their choosing of titles. Put another way, you could say the bar for what people consider an acceptable game had been raised as they grew up.

This argument, premised in nostalgia, while worded poorly, hits at a different base then something that just calls certain tastes bad and in fact, because it says the opposite of what you are saying, warrants less criticism from me.

Some one saying, "yea I enjoy a bunch of games, even poorly received ones like back in the day" I'm not going to cal out vs. "you have bad taste."

If you want to say we interpreted his posts different or if I should address you in context of strictly what you saw, cool. But I addressed your post for that specific reason, and if I saw him to say the same kind of thing, I would've quoted him as well.

--

I think it's better if we drop this, as I don't want to detail too much and I'm essentially arguing for what I think another poster meant. Apologies for derailing the thread and apologies to you for taking up your time.
 
Wamb0wneD said:

Primethius said:

Primethius said:
I'm not ignoring anything, just calling out something specific. His post makes sense when you look at it from the lens of nostalgia (again, not that I agree with it). The argument is that people, when young, played games without being overly critical of them. They were thus able to enjoy games, even ones considered "bad". This, according to him, is different now as people are more critical, more constrictive in their choosing of titles. Put another way, you could say the bar for what people consider an acceptable game had been raised as they grew up.

This argument, premised in nostalgia, while worded poorly, hits at a different base then something that just calls certain tastes bad and in fact, because it says the opposite of what you are saying, warrants less criticism from me.

Some one saying, "yea I enjoy a bunch of games, even poorly received ones like back in the day" I'm not going to cal out vs. "you have bad taste."

If you want to say we interpreted his posts different or if I should address you in context of strictly what you saw, cool. But I addressed your post for that specific reason, and if I saw him to say the same kind of thing, I would've quoted him as well.

--

I think it's better if we drop this, as I don't want to detail too much and I'm essentially arguing for what I think another poster meant. Apologies for derailing the thread and apologies to you for taking up your time.

Woah, the things I missed while I was at work.

To even further add to my point I was trying to get, back then there weren't patches or fixes or even second chances to bad games. Making then eternally broken if released in that state and yet by some miracle some of this games were still played and are to this day without people complaining about them this gen. Where there bad games even if not broken? perhaps, but you have to think to yourself if people played them back then and passed them, was it really a bad game if people played it from start to finish? Not like today in age where people just simply discard the game because of a demo.

I would like to apologize to WambOwned if I somehow rustled his feathers but you have to admit that calling these games bad is wrong IF you played games in the early days like me.

These games to me, have not reached that set standard, from games I played back in those days that were broken unpatchable games.

Let's agree to disagree. Some people will always complain, others will always play. That's my motto.

Sorry, Back to Knack 2 then.
 
I would like to apologize to WambOwned if I somehow rustled his feathers but you have to admit that calling these games bad is wrong IF you played games in the early days like me.

No. This is bullshit. I've been playing games since the Spectrum ZX, and there are games today that I will absolutely consider to be "bad" games, and games from decades ago that I will still consider good. Whether or not I consider a game to be bad doesn't hinge simply on "did it not crash as I completed it".... it's an entertainment medium, and so a bad game is typically one that fails to entertain me. Sometimes this is due to technical and mechanical faults (Sonic 2k6), and sometimes it'll be because a game is simply bland, boring and repetitive (Knack).


Honestly, I think jumping on WambOwned for his comments are ridiculous. You're giving Sangetsu-II all the benefit of the doubt in the world for someone who literally was the first to cast the "bad taste" stone simply for others not enjoying literally everything that's new and/or doesn't outright break as you play it. That's not taste, that's merely tolerance... taste actually requires some discernment.
 
Hey everyone what's been going on in here since I last checked in?

We've been reliably informed that if you've been playing games longer than a certain number of years, you forfeit the ability to consider any modern release as a bad game... and if you do, then you simply have bad taste.
 
It makes me sad seeing all these Knack haters.

Of course the game isn't some game of the year but I found it fun for what it was.

Well, you kind of used a bait and switch thread title. It comes off like someone that had their doubts about the game, but surprise! They liked it.

Then it turns out it was someone that was already into the game. And that's cool, like what you like. But it's kind of silly not to expect the backlash after that title. You were basically begging for Knack haters to come check out the thread, as it seemed like you were genuinely surprised by how good it was.

I mean, that's me. I thought Knack was pretty horribad. The title made me think that the devs learned where they went wrong and made a great game. Had it been clear that it was a Knack love thread, I would have never clicked.
 
Pretty happy about the $40 price tag. The first game was fun but I wouldn't consider it being a $60 game today. It was a bit different at launch.

Definitely fun though.
 
The critics had a lot of expectations from both Cerny (Sonic The Hedgehog, Crash Bandicoot (1-2-3), the first Jak and Daxter) and Japan Studio (Ape Escape, Siren, Shadows of The Colossus, Puppeteer just to name a few), I would too if I had to review Knack for a media outlet. The origins of those expectations are mainly because they both had hands on games that marked their respective generations. So yes, the expectations they had for the first Knack did affected the reviews of the game. It fairly deserved some of the criticism it received at launch. Sure, the game had its share of problems with debatable design choices, but it doesn't change the fact that it had and still have the potential to be something worthwhile. You may or may not like the games and/or franchise and yes the demo was terrible at showing off, but to say outright say that it is a terrible franchise is ludicrous. ReCore is another example of a game that could have been a franchise, if it fared better critically and commercially despite having really interesting core concepts for the game. The overall execution was lackluster in the end. Furthermore, for ReCore, no one was expecting this game to do well critically due to the main studios attached to the project being Armature Studio and Comcept. They are good working studios with debatable output so far... -_-
The first game and the new demo are bad. I appreciate what Cerny worked on in the past, but Knack is flat out awful. 83 reviewers' summation of scores were 54% for Knack, it's awful. I'm not going to argue if the game is good or not for you. That's your opinion, and I'll respect that. But to say that I am ludicrous for calling the games awful is strange because It's my opinion as well as the meta score reflexing it.

Gaf has this weird obsession with Knack which I don't understand. As I stated, I couldn't bring myself to finish the first one. Knack seemed like a glorified tech demo. 2 looks to continue the trend.

Edit:
Well, you kind of used a bait and switch thread title. It comes off like someone that had their doubts about the game, but surprise! They liked it.

Then it turns out it was someone that was already into the game. And that's cool, like what you like. But it's kind of silly not to expect the backlash after that title. You were basically begging for Knack haters to come check out the thread, as it seemed like you were genuinely surprised by how good it was.

I mean, that's me. I thought Knack was pretty horribad. The title made me think that the devs learned where they went wrong and made a great game. Had it been clear that it was a Knack love thread, I would have never clicked.
Correct. The title seems like bait OP.
 
Played it again on very hard - discovered some more co-op tech:

If one player ground pounds near the other player, the explosion radius is increased

If you both hard punch each other at the same time in a pointed direction - you BOTH spiral in that direction.

I wonder if there's anymore moves in the full game, brawler that encourages friendly fire lol
 
Attack of the Fanboy 4/5
https://aotf.com/reviews/knack-2-review/

80/100
https://venturebeat.com/2017/09/05/knack-2-review-it-rocks/

IGN 7.2
http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/09/05/knack-2-review

Press Start 8/10
https://press-start.com.au/reviews/...eview-an-old-relic-learns-some-modern-tricks/

Kotaku:Knack II Is Actually Pretty Good
In my review of the first Knack, I wrote: "It's not that I want to knock Knack. It's a launch game. Launch games seldom offer more than what Knack offers. You get a game you can show off to friends. You get a game that hints at what new gaming hardware can do. You get a game that feels ready to be supplanted by a richer sequel." Knack II appears to be that sequel. It's less of a punchline and more of a success than I ever expected it to be.
http://kotaku.com/knack-ii-is-actually-pretty-good-1799717466
 
Sounds like a big improvement over the first game reading the IGN review, but ultimately still uninspired, lacking soul and with a lack of attention to detail.

My wife loved the first game though due to the simplicity of its controls, and I'm sure she'll love this.
 
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