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So these FInal Fantasy XV tracks are way too similar, right? (Elder Scrolls Theme)

Falk said:
Trust me, this isn't the first and it won't be the last time these threads happen regardless of the shift, but I'll oblige.
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Thanks a lot! I'll edit the OP to make it more transparent why the first pages concentrated on this not being plagiarism so much.

Rappy said:
Aren't the similarities mostly only in that single portion where you made the comparison video (the Reddit analysis even says this)? I think I've said this before but I don't get how a single chord progression makes the whole piece a "complete ripoff" as some of you are saying.
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Well, these parts seem to be kind of the leitmotif of the Astrals' battles and throughout the game and tracks. (Look at me very likely using the "leitmotif" in a completely wrong way, but I hope you see what I mean). It's the central part of the Elder Scrolls Theme and that exact part seems to be an equally central part to the Titan's and Leviathan's music. I do think that is noteworthy.


JP said:
There was a actually thread about the same two themes on here last month, I'm not sure what happened to that one. I'd assume, not much. :)

Hang on, does this thread plagiarise the original one or are they merely based on similar themes?
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Fuck.
*runs*
 
Hmmm I guess I also don't have a lot to do today... may as well post garbage..

Yeah she stole it! That thief! Yoko couldn't write her way out of a bag.

Actually, I heard she stole Guile's Theme from a Russian opera. Not just that, but apparently the sound sample for "hadouken" is lifted from a microwave sound card.

She's always been a fake and now after all these decades and 1000s of tracks the proof is in the pudding. Hope that thief likes chocolate...
 
sanstesy said:
You said people say "that the composer has committed a grave and despicable act and must now be carted off to music jail". Your hyperbole aside, I explained why people might think it could be plagiarisment.
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My post was a reply to someone who was wondering why people think the song is a rip off.

That some think this a grave act is what I was making light of.
 
meerak said:
Hmmm I guess I also don't have a lot to do today... may as well post garbage..

Yeah she stole it! That thief! Yoko couldn't write her way out of a bag.

Actually, I heard she stole Guile's Theme from a Russian opera. Not just that, but apparently the sound sample for "hadouken" is lifted from a microwave sound card.

She's always been a fake and now after all these decades and 1000s of tracks the proof is in the pudding. Hope that thief likes chocolate...
Click to expand...

MONSTROUS! She's going to roast in hell for sure!
 
Yeah they are. But to be fair, the elder scrolls theme isn't really groundbreaking. Wouldn't surprise me if it was a coincidence.
 
SilentRob said:
Well, these parts seem to be kind of the leitmotif of the Astrals' battles and throughout the game and tracks.
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Now imagine if the Ifrit fight theme started with its current instrumentation, but with the same musical phrase being discussed here. And now you've got a little insight into how the people involved in the creation of the soundtrack at least had a brief idea. :)

SilentRob said:
(Look at me very likely using the "leitmotif" in a completely wrong way,
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it's actually right, lol
 
I think plagiarism accusation is quite laughable,however.

The vocal accompaniment in FFXV is different,the beginning of the song is different.The total final effect is a thing of its own.

People don't realize even fabled composers such as Beethoven & Bach borrowed ideas.Note for note sometimes.
 
HeelPower said:
People don't realize even fabled composers such as Beethoven & Bach borrowed ideas.Note for note sometimes.
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Beethoven wrote plenty of garbage. He had to pay the bills just like anyone else. The difference is that you don't usually hear his minor works in public because they've been weeded out. ;)
 
NinjamicWZ said:
For more immediate reference:

2ht9Cep.jpg
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This reads like a med student who just learned about a disease and suddenly realizes everyone they know must have it.

Whoever wrote it might want to sign up for another ear training class. Just listened to each track, and without going over to the piano they're completely wrong about one of the basic chords in the FF song (and the bass line should make that immediately obvious). And they're off on the quality of the ii chord as well, I think. They're batting 50% on the most common chords in music.

Then, the melody. This is a four measure section in which everything but one measure is an ascending or descending scale, the most common melodic pattern in all of music. Even then, only two measures actually match -- the other three notes that are similar are in a different measure in the melody. This also means that those notes are harmonized against a different set of chords. In the elder scrolls theme, the melody leads into a minor six harmony, while the same notes in the ff theme lead into the major four chord.

All that said, the melodies (not the harmonies) are really similar for two measures. They're similar enough that it's possible one composer had another's theme kicking around in their head, but with music this simple/elemental it's just as likely that stuff like this just happens, and will happen again and again.

But if you could copyright those six notes people would have had to stop writing celtic music hundreds of years ago, lol.
 
HeelPower said:
People don't realize even fabled composers such as Beethoven & Bach borrowed ideas.Note for note sometimes.
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Whilst the reasons for doing so then and now are quite similar (time, demand etc.), the ethics of 'plagiarism' in those days were quite different from what they are today, so that isn't really all that relevant to reference.
 
Falk said:
this is too meta and now i have a headache
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Pfft, typical professional musician and other such cliches. :)
SilentRob said:
Fuck.
*runs*
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Ha, I was joking about the plagiarism parts.

I found the original thread though. :) Does anyone else hear the Elder Scrolls Theme in Apocalypsis Noctis (FFXV)?

I would suggests that was far better thread title than the original one for which suggested that the thread was going to prove that wrongdoing had happened. Although I didn't post in the original thread, I would have happily agreed that there were indeed similarities between the two pieces and I imagine that you would have found far less of a split the negative and positive replies there's been here.

I know that publications sometime go with the strongest heading possible, for obvious reasons, but often on here it can be the absolute worst way to start a thread as it can often create a split between people who may well feel exactly the same way about the topic of discussion.

I do prefer your new thread title although I think I'd probably still disagree with the "way too similar" bit. But hey, we're talking about how people feel about something rather than it being a simple right or wrong thing. :)

EDIT:
Also, everybody go and listen to Glenn Gould. Nothing to do with games but I do like to throw that into any conversation about music. :)
 
Yeah, the parts that are the same sound the same, but the songs go in a different direction with a different mood/style otherwise. In other words, despite the Elder Scrolls theme being burned into my brain I couldn't predict where the FFXV songs were gonna go.
 
jb1234 said:
Beethoven wrote plenty of garbage. He had to pay the bills just like anyone else. The difference is that you don't usually hear his minor works in public because they've been weeded out. ;)
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Don't really need to look through garbage to realize that.

This movement by Mozart & this one by Beethoven share an uncanny inspiration.Even down to the fugal treatment.

I mean both pieces obviously go on to be different beasts by the end but its unmistakable that they have a lot in common.We are talking top level late work here.
 
A few notes happen to be similar in a song

New thread: "Songs in games that sound similar"

A few notes happen to be similar in an FFXV song

New thread: "So these Final Fantasy XV tracks are plain plagiarism, right? (Elder Scrolls Theme)"
 
Fbh said:
I knew that track reminded me of something.

In my head I had it as the pirates of the caribbean track. Guess it was elder scrolls after all
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It's super weird that they decided to use it in Pirates as well. Still a great theme song, just weird to hear it.

I'm not jumping on a plagiarism bandwagon. It's a very basic chord. It's just weird to be fighting a badass boss in FFXV, and suddenly Elder Scrolls theme is briefly playing.
 
Honestly, both the FF XV and Elder Scrolls soundtracks are working in a standardized bombastic cinematic style here, so it's not like the Elder Scrolls music has something particularly unique to be ripped off from to begin with.
 
I just associate both tracks with generic high fantasy music. Pretty sure, there's at least one track from LottR that has a similar chord progression.
 
hosannainexcelsis said:
Honestly, both the FF XV and Elder Scrolls soundtracks are working in a standardized bombastic cinematic style here, so it's not like the Elder Scrolls music has something particularly unique to be ripped off from to begin with.
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I mean, unless you can find something earlier than Morrowind's theme that uses this...

mugurumakensei said:
I just associate both tracks with generic high fantasy music. Pretty sure, there's at least one track from LottR that has a similar chord progression.
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Dunno how that would make things any better. Pirates uses it. Doesn't mean it wasn't associated with Elder Scrolls first.

Sanctuary said:
Unless I just missed it, I'm surprised Star Wars vs Kings Row wasn't mentioned yet.
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Oh wow, I've actually never heard that before.
 
Yeah, it was obvious even when they used the song during the E3 demo.

I can believe the FFXV tracks being created in isolation, but jeez, surely there was someone on the dev team who recognised the theme. Even if it's an innocent coincidence, which it probably is, the issue ought to have been raised and the theme modified - the Elder Scrolls theme is an iconic gaming theme.
 
Glad to see Falk educating people on this. You tell 'em. Calling it plagiarism is almost a tabloid news headline akin to lSHOCKING NEWS! Yoko Steals Music! We Have Exclusive Proof!"

Though I'm disappointed by the title change. Should have been "In this thread we flaunt our musical cocks."
 
When I heard this in game I was like wtf is that that song from Pirates of the Carribean/Gladiator? Then I realised no it's an almost exact copy of the Skyrim theme. Pretty crazy coincidence if not deliberate.

EDIT:

Sanctuary said:
I can hear the influence, but you want to hear something even more obvious?

Gladiator - The Battle (love this soundtrack anyway)
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Ok so I was right the first time lol.
 
What's funny is that in the past composers would borrow and alter material of their peers and it was acceptable. The theme is definitely present, but it has been altered. At best it's a happy accident, at "worst" a homage to another series FFXV was influenced by.
 
Fanuilos said:
What's funny is that in the past composers would borrow and alter material of their peers and it was acceptable.
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If you're talking about Street Fighter II, it's because video games weren't taken seriously in those days, and even the developers didn't put their real names in the credits.
 
Falk said:
If you wanted to be extremely pedantic/accurate:
FFXV - vi, IV, V, ii
Skyrim- vi, I, V, II

which makes it a 50% match on the chord structure, but that's a minor detail.

Not really, this point of conversation came up as early as when we were working on the music for the Uncovered event.
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I was about to mention that people often forget inversions when looking at bass notes.
DiipuSurotu said:
If you're talking about Street Fighter II, it's because video games weren't taken seriously in those days, and even the developers didn't put their real names in the credits.
Click to expand...
I think he's talking about the practice known as contrafactum (and the ways it can manifest).

If you didn't know what that word was, look it up and enjoy the expansion of your vocabulary.
 
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