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So uh...Hollywood Writer's Strike anyone?

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Iceman said:
You can't act, direct or produce something that hasn't been written.

Anything else would just be an attempt at abstract art.

Yeah just like you cant live in or get rent from a building that has yet to be designed by architects and built by the labor. Yet when that building is completed by the iron workers, construction workers etc. they don't get a cut of the profits that may come after. What about people like them, should they get a cut of the profits after?
 
RumFore said:
Yeah just like you cant live in or get rent from a building that has yet to be designed by architects and built by the labor. Yet when that building is completed by the iron workers, construction workers etc. they don't get a cut of the profits that may come after. What about people like them, should they get a cut of the profits after?

That's a terrible analogy. The workers/builders aren't the ones who design the buildings, that's for architects and draftsmen who get paid hefty sums for their works.

Writers are akin to the people who design and create buildings, not the builders themselves.
 
Yeah but they get paid and thats it. And just like architects I'm sure they get a lot more than the set builders and other labor. I just don't see why they deserve a cut of the profits if they are not the creators or producers.
 
RumFore said:
Yeah but they get paid and thats it. And just like architects I'm sure they get a lot more than the set builders and other labor. I just don't see why they deserve a cut of the profits if they are not the creators or producers.

The point is, that without writers, you have nothing to work with. That's just the way the industry is set up. No writers = no content.
 
Blader5489 said:
Why shouldn't they? It's their work being put online and on DVD.

But they got paid for there work and there it should end. Here is a $1000, build me a web site. The hell if continue getting profits from it when the job is complete. Regardless I think they should have maybe gone about it another way because while they all may keep there jobs because they are vital to the industry many others will end up losing theres. I would even say its kind of self fish especially around the holidays and not many are speaking up for those indirectly affected by there strike.
 
RumFore said:
But they got paid for there work and there it should end. Here is a $1000, build me a web site. The hell if continue getting profits from it when the job is complete. Regardless I think they should have maybe gone about it another way because while they all may keep there jobs because they are vital to the industry many others will end up losing theres. I would even say its kind of self fish especially around the holidays and not many are speaking up for those indirectly affected by there strike.


They get paid for the original intention - e.g. the up front is for the first TV showing, its new content, that's what the contract is for.

Then, there's the repeat showings where they get residuals (this is especially for new networks, syndicated showings, etc), where it's a new contract all together.

DVDs are a new showing, it's a new format, not covered under the original contract for the first air of the show.

Internet SHOULD be the same as DVD. same deal, new format.


Your analogy to a website makes no sense, as sure, you get paid upfront for developing the website. It goes on the net, it works. Contract over.

But what if the company wants to market a multimedia CD with the website contents or theme on it? You'll want payment for re-use of your materials wouldn't you?

Or, what if the company makes a DVD, and models the menus over your designs? You'd want money.

What if they create an entire marketing campaign, based on your website design, and make millions as a result of the effectiveness of the ads based on your designs.. I sure as hell bet you wouldn't be happy with the $1000 they gave you when you designed the template for their site, would you?


Now do you get it?

Fact is, writers get paid upfront for their work, yes, because there's money to be made on first run -- reruns, not as much, but it's still MORE than the original scope of a first run of an episode.. DVDs and Internet are even more revenue, for the same "old" product, that the writers should get profit shares on, as the studios make millions, or even billions, on new media.
 
RumFore said:
But they got paid for there work and there it should end. Here is a $1000, build me a web site. The hell if continue getting profits from it when the job is complete. Regardless I think they should have maybe gone about it another way because while they all may keep there jobs because they are vital to the industry many others will end up losing theres. I would even say its kind of self fish especially around the holidays and not many are speaking up for those indirectly affected by there strike.
Look at a written TV show like an invention. Somebody once recieved a patent for his invention of a bottle opener, and he/she still gets a little bit of money every time someone buys a bottle opener. That's a stupid example, sure, but if the studies get to keep making money of a certain show years after it was first written, by selling the show on DVD, showing it online with advertisements, do the networks really deserve every single penny of that show? Without the writers, the show would never have existed and the network would make less money ten years on.
 
RumFore said:
Yeah but they get paid and thats it. And just like architects I'm sure they get a lot more than the set builders and other labor. I just don't see why they deserve a cut of the profits if they are not the creators or producers.
If an architect is designing a building plan to be used over and over and over and over, I bet they're making sure to get something more for it.
 
RumFore said:
But they got paid for there work and there it should end. Here is a $1000, build me a web site. The hell if continue getting profits from it when the job is complete. Regardless I think they should have maybe gone about it another way because while they all may keep there jobs because they are vital to the industry many others will end up losing theres. I would even say its kind of self fish especially around the holidays and not many are speaking up for those indirectly affected by there strike.

Residuals are part of the deal. The writers aren't getting residuals for their work being put online (which is slowly replacing syndication, which hurts the writers even more).

And the strike was agreed upon by 90% of the WGA. This wasn't the action of a few people, but rather (most of) the entire group.
 
RumFore said:
Yeah but they get paid and thats it. And just like architects I'm sure they get a lot more than the set builders and other labor. I just don't see why they deserve a cut of the profits if they are not the creators or producers.

Writers are creators. They create stories and dialog.
 
Blader5489 said:
Residuals are part of the deal. The writers aren't getting residuals for their work being put online (which is slowly replacing syndication, which hurts the writers even more).

And the strike was agreed upon by 90% of the WGA. This wasn't the action of a few people, but rather (most of) the entire group.

I was talking more about production staff and such. The people that put together and help put together everything after the writing is done.


beermonkey@tehbias said:
Writers are creators. They create stories and dialog.

Ahh come on, there is a difference between writers and creators when it comes to TV shows.
 
From the beginning the producers and media companies saw this strike as a way to force a wholesale change in how the business is done. WHile the writers were making cutesy videos and theme strikes( strike with a star) The media bosses were trying to figure out who to use this to their advantage. They can afford the PR hit, kill contracts in a couple of weeks and start new.
 
Reading the AMPTP press, it really sounds like the writers are just asking for too much. I support the writers and all, but were they seriously that bad off before the strike? It sounds like they were all homeless or something.

I'm starting to side with nobody at this point. Just end the damn thing.
 
chubigans said:
Reading the AMPTP press, it really sounds like the writers are just asking for too much. I support the writers and all, but were they seriously that bad off before the strike? It sounds like they were all homeless or something.

I'm starting to side with nobody at this point. Just end the damn thing.

Exactly. I'm all for writers getting their due residuals, but unless the AMPTP is lying through its teeth, then the WGA really is making some unreasonable demands.

Fuck both sides. My sympathy for the writers has been exhausted.
 
I read up on that breakdown and atleast half the points don't sound so unreasonable to drop. Is it really that much to ask that when this is all settled the producers don't need to worry about the writers following the actors when they strike ?

Also the reality TV clause that would force people who don't want to be in a union to ... well be in a union in order to work is also asking to much.

The internet residuals though that's the touchy one. They should look at rewording it or something.

Basically this strike isn't going to end anytime soon is it ?
 
chubigans said:
Reading the AMPTP press, it really sounds like the writers are just asking for too much. I support the writers and all, but were they seriously that bad off before the strike? It sounds like they were all homeless or something.
It's not how bad off they were before the strike that worries them, but how bad off they could be in a few years if they don't do anything.

I like this sum-up from a Daily Show writer:
http://www.freepress.net/actionnetwork/node/304#comment-455
As you’ve probably heard by now, the WGA strike boils down to the issue of residuals for Internet reuse of our material. What’s that mean? Take the show I work for, “The Daily Show with Jon Stewart.” It gets rerun on Comedy Central four times a day. And each day it reruns, the writers get a modest check. Same with any union-made show or movie. Residuals are what writers get in lieu of a copyright. In principle they’re an acknowledgement of the writer’s centrality to the creative process. In practice they’re a way for writers to survive the inevitable periods of unemployment that haunt people in this industry. (About half of the WGA’s membership is unemployed at any given time.) It’s already tough to make a career out of this job. Without residuals, it would be impossible.

But while each day’s reruns on Comedy Central generate a residual, the rerun that’s available via streaming video on the show’s Website is under a different contract – none. The network pays us zilch for those uses. Perhaps you’ve seen Jon’s face on the iPod billboard. Know how much we get for each $2 iTunes download? The same as we get for streaming. Nada. (And this isn’t Jon’s fault - he supports us 100%.)

Now, if you had to bet on how TV shows will be delivered to viewers five or ten years from now, which would you bank on — traditional TV, or some kind of digital service?

Yeah, that’s our bet, too.

Last Thursday, the studios offered us a buyout for a years’ worth of unlimited streaming reruns. Their price: $250. Our estimate of what that buyout would be worth on regular TV: $20,000.

So we’re still striking.
 
Daily Show writer said:
As you’ve probably heard by now, the WGA strike boils down to the issue of residuals for Internet reuse of our material.

But that's just my point. Unless the AMPTP press release was a complete lie, then it's clear that the WGA strike is much more about new media residuals. And it's those new demands, not the ones for residuals, that are completely unreasonable.
 
Blader5489 said:
But that's just my point. Unless the AMPTP press release was a complete lie, then it's clear that the WGA strike is much more about new media residuals. And it's those new demands, not the ones for residuals, that are completely unreasonable.
Sure some of the WGA's proposals are probably unreasonable. So are some of the AMPTP's. The purpose of negotiations is to work them out, which is difficult with only one side at the table.
 
I think it's gonna take endless reruns and reality shows before the public bands together and tells everyone involved to stop being a bunch of fucking babies.
 
Has MTV been effected now? cause like 2 days ago, I was flipping through the channels and they didn't have any programs from like 10 am till like 7 pm. Good thing honestly cause really nothing ever on but just wondering
 
jasonbay said:
Has MTV been effected now? cause like 2 days ago, I was flipping through the channels and they didn't have any programs from like 10 am till like 7 pm. Good thing honestly cause really nothing ever on but just wondering

I don't think MTV cares who writes for them, as long as its human.
 
While I'll agree that it takes the entire team of people to make a product that airs on TV or Cable, in the end, it's those that we SEE and LISTEN to on the TV that ends up being what sells it. Let's face it: You can have the best writers on the face of the earth, but if you don't have the director/cast to support it, you go nowhere and get NO residules or even a paycheck, because your name is now associated with a FAILED product. Would FRIENDS or SEINFELD have been as good if the cast was different? Probably not.

All in all, I liken the WGA as to what Housekeepers and Groundskeepers are to Hotels: Important, Needed, and Wanted. They provide necessary services to the hotel industry to keep it's image up to snuff and keep people coming back to your hotel chain. But in the end, it's just there: a small part in the chain of events that has them coming back. You are not as big a reason people keep coming back as you think. Important? Sure. Totally dependant on you for their success? Nope.

In the end, they're getting paid what they need to get paid. What is going to happen, is that TV viewers have long since grown VERY bored with most everything on TV & Cable, having a delay in content like this is nothing more than *YET ANOTHER* excuse for people to turn their attentions elsewhere instead of the TV. Thanks again, WGA! You rule!
 
Kastro said:
I think it's gonna take endless reruns and reality shows before the public bands together and tells everyone involved to stop being a bunch of fucking babies.

Except some of the biggest shows on TV now are reality. And lesser reality shows will now get bigger audiences with constant reruns of scripted shows.

It's ridiculous how big American Idol is going to be this January when the strike continues:P
 
DiatribeEQ said:
While I'll agree that it takes the entire team of people to make a product that airs on TV or Cable, in the end, it's those that we SEE and LISTEN to on the TV that ends up being what sells it. Let's face it: You can have the best writers on the face of the earth, but if you don't have the director/cast to support it, you go nowhere and get NO residules or even a paycheck, because your name is now associated with a FAILED product. Would FRIENDS or SEINFELD have been as good if the cast was different?
On the other hand, nobody's going to be making a lot of residuals off of
Joey
The Michael Richards Show
Listen Up
Watching Ellie
 
since most shows are still being aired i expect the AMPTP will try to end this when in January/February there are no more scripted shows to air.
 
But that's just my point. Unless the AMPTP press release was a complete lie, then it's clear that the WGA strike is much more about new media residuals. And it's those new demands, not the ones for residuals, that are completely unreasonable.

As far as I know, in any negociation progress you must ask for more than you really want to get it you don´t want to get scammed. Anyway, I think that the governamental authorities should try to act as moderators in this dispute since it is each time clearer that none of the sides are willing to listen to the another.
 
Great time for a new talent influx methinks. TV can survive without the writers so they really need to scale back their demands or it's more profitable reality/quiz shows for the studio/producer win.

Especially if they start hiring new "scab" talent.
 
Gexecuter said:
since most shows are still being aired i expect the AMPTP will try to end this when in January/February there are no more scripted shows to air.
Going by that logic they would try to end it earlier. When there's no episodes left you can't just start re-airing immediately when the strike is over. New episodes will have to be written, filmed, and produced, which also takes up a few weeks.
 
krypt0nian said:
Great time for a new talent influx methinks. TV can survive without the writers so they really need to scale back their demands or it's more profitable reality/quiz shows for the studio/producer win.

Especially if they start hiring new "scab" talent.

Yeah but starting your career as a scab writer will most likely only ensure that it is a short one.
 
DiatribeEQ said:
While I'll agree that it takes the entire team of people to make a product that airs on TV or Cable, in the end, it's those that we SEE and LISTEN to on the TV that ends up being what sells it. Let's face it: You can have the best writers on the face of the earth, but if you don't have the director/cast to support it, you go nowhere and get NO residules or even a paycheck, because your name is now associated with a FAILED product

Bullshit. All star casts are jack shit without quality writing. If your logic was anywhere close to being correct, then pretty much any media with good actors is guaranteed to sell well.

Writers are just as responsible for what makes people want to rewatch programs (buy on dvd or iTunes) then the actors and producers that put the ensemble together. They deserve a cut of the pie. They already get residuals for reruns on tv, what sense does it make to not get them from a diferent style of rerun on different media. This is just a case of production studios finding a way to make even more money for themselves and leaving everyone else out.
 
Kastro said:
I think it's gonna take endless reruns and reality shows before the public bands together and tells everyone involved to stop being a bunch of fucking babies.


My coworkers were talking about Grey's Anatomy the other day and how theyre sad their wont be new episodes for a few weeks.

They thought the show was going into the traditional winter 3 week break. I had to break it to them that it was over.

"There are no more episodes"
"Not for another few weeks no"
"I mean anymore, until at least September"
"No, the shows come back after new year"
"no"

When the public notices that their favorite shows arent coming back, then this will get bigger.
 
Please don't believe a word that comes from the AMPTP camp-- it's 100% spin. They're using a PR Firm whose nickname is The Masters of Disaster.

Studios Bring in PR Doctors
From Los Angeles Times, December 6, 2007
By Richard Verrier

Seeking to shore up its flagging public image, the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers has retained a consulting firm known for creating controversies in media and politics on behalf of well-heeled clients.

The alliance, which represents the Hollywood studios, said it had hired Mark Fabiani and Chris Lehane, who have served as senior aides and advisors to President Clinton and Vice President Al Gore. The duo have a reputation for hardball tactics in damage control and inflicting damage on opponents.

The alliance also said it had hired Steve Schmidt, a close advisor to Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger who served as his campaign manager in 2006.

Tapping the consultants signals that the studios are preparing for what could be a protracted and increasingly nasty strike. Negotiations between writers and the studios have made no progress this week, fueling speculation that the studios may soon turn their attention to negotiating a deal with movie and TV directors, whose contract expires in June.

The advisors took over last week from Barbara Brogliatti, who had been guiding the group’s public relations strategy for much of the last 25 years. The former Warner Bros. executive remains a senior advisor to the group, which has been locked in contentious contract negotiations with the Writers Guild of America.

The move reflects a concerted push by the alliance to take a more aggressive approach in its public relations after polls conducted by Pepperdine University, Fox News and SurveyUSA showed widespread public support for the writers, now in the fifth week of a strike. The new strategy was evident last week, when a number of top media executives spoke to journalists about the slow pace of negotiations.

Among the handiwork was a full-page advertisement in the Hollywood trade papers that touted a “new economic partnership” offered to writers by the studios. The ad was targeted at “moderate” writers in an attempt to hive them off their union leaders, who dismissed the economic claims as wildly inaccurate, according to a person familiar with the situation.

Negotiators for writers and studios returned to the bargaining table Wednesday in their sixth session since talks resumed last week, but they remain far apart on key issues, including pay for work distributed over the Internet and compensation and benefits for writers who work in reality TV.

Since the strike began Nov. 5, the WGA has mounted a highly effective PR campaign against the major studios and the media conglomerates that own them. The guild has managed its public relations largely in-house, employing the talents of members to promote its cause with videos on YouTube and stage-managed picket lines.

To counter the offensive, studio executives recently decided to go outside for help. The alliance initially considered hiring Joe Lockhart, a former White House spokesman for Clinton, but he wasn’t available.

The alliance then reached out to Fabiani and Lehane over the Thanksgiving weekend.

Fabiani and Lehane have a long history in Democratic politics. Lehane advised Clinton on how to deal with the Monica Lewinsky scandal and is known for his sharp tongue and fierce attacks on opponents.

As Al Gore’s presidential campaign spokesman, he once compared Florida’s secretary of state to “a Soviet commissar” during the 2000 recount.

Fabiani was former deputy mayor to Los Angeles Mayor Tom Bradley.

Beyond their political work, the men have worked on behalf of professional sports teams and leagues, including the National Hockey League, and clients including Cisco Systems Inc., Google Inc. and various Indian tribes.

They’re also no strangers to Hollywood. They had worked with several studios and have a close relationship with News Corp., whose president, Peter Chernin, has emerged as a leader in efforts to negotiate a contract with writers.

Fabiani and Lehane worked with News Corp. in a campaign against Nielsen Media Research in 2004. For weeks, Nielsen was hammered publicly by a group dubbed the Don’t Count Us Out Coalition, which was made up primarily of Latino and African American advocacy organizations opposed to the TV rating firm’s plans to modernize how it measures viewing habits. The campaign was orchestrated by Fabiani and Lehane and funded by News Corp.

Schmidt, of Mercury Public Affairs in Sacramento, also has worked with several Hollywood studios and sports teams. He worked in the Bush White House, including as a strategist on the confirmations of John G. Roberts Jr. and Samuel A. Alito Jr. to the Supreme Court.

It is not yet clear who will serve as chief spokesman for the alliance. Currently, Sony Pictures Entertainment spokesman Jim Kennedy, a former spokesman to both President Clinton and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, is filling that role.

This article is from Los Angeles Times. If you found it informative and valuable, we strongly encourage you to visit their Web site and register an account, if necessary, to view all their articles on the Web. Support quality journalism.
http://www.freepress.net/news/28777
 
Bay Area WGA members will be picketing outside the Disney store in Union Square (geddit??) in SF this Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Seems to be one of several grassroots efforts being started up by WGA members not within striking distance of LA/NY.

If you're in the neighborhood come by and support us!
 
Gary Whitta said:
Bay Area WGA members will be picketing outside the Disney store in Union Square (geddit??) in SF this Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Seems to be one of several grassroots efforts being started up by WGA members not within striking distance of LA/NY.

If you're in the neighborhood come by and support us!

You're a writer? What have you written?
 
Gary Whitta said:
Bay Area WGA members will be picketing outside the Disney store in Union Square (geddit??) in SF this Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Seems to be one of several grassroots efforts being started up by WGA members not within striking distance of LA/NY.

If you're in the neighborhood come by and support us!

you should buy Ratatouille while you are the Disney Store, its a pretty good movie.
 
Gary Whitta said:
Bay Area WGA members will be picketing outside the Disney store in Union Square (geddit??) in SF this Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Seems to be one of several grassroots efforts being started up by WGA members not within striking distance of LA/NY.

If you're in the neighborhood come by and support us!

There have GOT to be better Disney targets in the bay area than the one that sells overpriced tchotchkes to unsuspecting tourists and frantic parents (seriously, do you think the employees inside are going to be able to do anything other than get slightly annoyed?). I seem to recall a certain studio over in Emeryville that's part of the Mousehaus...
 
Its funny that the Writers Strike may last until the start of the Actors Guild strike. So then actors and writers will be striking at the same time. OR after the writers strike ends, and the actor strike begins the actors will just reverse the ruling on the writers strike and we go back to square one. yay
 
perfectchaos007 said:
Its funny that the Writers Strike may last until the start of the Actors Guild strike. So then actors and writers will be striking at the same time. OR after the writers strike ends, and the actor strike begins the actors will just reverse the ruling on the writers strike and we go back to square one. yay

Well... The real shitty scenario is that the strike lasts until the Director's Guild caves, the Actor's Guild follows, and then the writers are screwed. It has happened before, and I think the studios are betting on it happening again... They just better hope the Director's find a backbone on Guild issues, because most of the heavyweights take their cut off gross receipts now.
 
tetsuoxb said:
Well... The real shitty scenario is that the strike lasts until the Director's Guild caves, the Actor's Guild follows, and then the writers are screwed. It has happened before, and I think the studios are betting on it happening again... They just better hope the Director's find a backbone on Guild issues, because most of the heavyweights take their cut off gross receipts now.

LoL. This is why Unions suck.
 
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