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So what has the Occupy Movement actually achieved?

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It served to show that the US government is ready to silence protesters with violence just as much as any of the repressive ME regimes.
 
You can't expect much to happen in a number of months.

The reality is no one wants to live in an unequal society, and because of this the majority of the population believe that the society they live in offers opportunities for everyone, and it's going to take a lot to make people realise that their society is extremely unequal.

You may think "it's obvious it's so unequal, just look around...." but why do you think every right wing news corporation were so quick to belittle the movement? because they've managed to brainwash everyone into thinking this is paradise and anyone can succeed, but when people realise....I'd estimate 15 years.... we will see real change in social inequality within the first world.
 
travisbickle said:
You can't expect much to happen in a number of months.

The reality is no one wants to live in an unequal society, and because of this the majority of the population believe that the society they live in offers opportunities for everyone, and it's going to take a lot to make people realise that their society is extremely unequal.

You may think "it's obvious it's so unequal, just look around...." but why do you think every right wing news corporation were so quick to belittle the movement? because they've managed to brainwash everyone into thinking this is paradise and anyone can succeed, but when people realise....I'd estimate 15 years.... we will see real change in social inequality within the first world.
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Life is unequal, but to pretend that there are no opportunities for the lower/middle class is just absurd. Do they have to work harder and do they have a smaller shot than someone from the upper class. Yes, but sometimes they take that opportunity and create something so big that it lifts their whole families, from lower to middleclass or even higher.

How many high-class people ever end up lower-class ? Never really happens does it ?
 
DOO13ER said:
I'm starting to realize that most people who ask what the point of OWS is or what it has accomplished do so only rhetorically.
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I don't honestly understand those who are still asking what Occupy is protesting for. If you really wanted to know it's not that hard to read a few articles or even just look at photos of protestors. There's a lot of issues out there so you'll find a lot of different ideas, but there are ones that consistently stick out if you bother to pay attention. The lack of any kind of 'official' mouthpiece seems to be a stumbling block for some, but I don't think that's a fair criticism for lack of a basic understanding of the issues people are protesting about.

There's also a trend to think that a lack of solutions to all these problems somehow makes the whole thing a failure. Raising awareness and highlighting problems that the media fails to address to get them in the public conscious is effective.
 
confused said:
Life is unequal, but to pretend that there are no opportunities for the lower/middle class is just absurd. Do they have to work harder and do they have a smaller shot than someone from the upper class. Yes, but sometimes they take that opportunity and create something so big that it lifts their whole families, from lower to middleclass or even higher.

How many high-class people ever end up lower-class ? Never really happens does it ?
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You kind of just proved his point.
 
How to change the world by OWS

1. Have idea to shake very foundations of society
2. Sit in tents for a few months until it gets too cold
3. Raise awareness
4. ???
5. PROFIT!
 
confused said:
His point was that there were no opportunities for lower to middle class. I call bullshit.
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Really? I don't see him making that point at all.

And I've seen toddlers with a better sense of how to bring about change than the OWS lot.
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Enlighten them then.

edit - After seeing your last post down there, why am I even bothering.
 
Protesters in other countries faced bullets, rockets and beatings for their protests.

OWS dispersed due to cold and teargas.
 
kurtrussell said:
How to change the world by OWS

1. Have idea to shake very foundations of society
2. Sit in tents for a few months until it gets too cold
3. Raise awareness
4. ???
5. PROFIT!
Click to expand...

Well, they could storm the banks and execute the bankers in public. Would you prefer that?



confused said:
Protesters in other countries faced bullets, rockets and beatings for their protests.

OWS dispersed due to cold and teargas.
Click to expand...


Posting this on an internet forum while sitting in the warm is much cooler.
 
cool, this is the part where the discussion devolves into passive aggressive bickering after no one's arguments got through to each other. I'm out lol
 
The Occupy movement has changed the debate and shifted the political landscape going into an election year. Last year at this time the huge push was on the deficit and austerity. Now, people are talkIng about inequality and jobs. That alone is a huge victory.
 
kurtrussell said:
So have flashmobs - what's your point?
Click to expand...


that you guys had stratospheric expectations for OWS, it hit a mark below that, and your expectations were ridiculously high with no basis in reality for how things work. It could have been the most focused, perfect protest of all time and we would still be where we are right now. All OWS was ever going to do was get people talking. End of story.


You asked what the Occupy Movement actually achieved, you got your answer, what else do you want? So sorry the Occupy Movement didn't bring a complete revolution of society for you bro! Change doesn't happen overnight, in a few weeks, months, and probably in this case, years. It's not anyone's fault that you can't comprehend that.
 
I hate these threads...OP has a question, gets his answer, but instead of actually absorbing the information people give him, he reveals that he actually had an agenda and wasn't just trying to get informed. Get your own talk radio show if you want to have a one sided discussion preceded by a seemingly neutral-but-actually-rhetorical question.
 
Seraphinianus said:
You asked what the Occupy Movement actually achieved, you got your answer, what else do you want? So sorry the Occupy Movement didn't bring a complete revolution of society for you bro! Change doesn't happen overnight, in a few weeks, months, and probably in this case, years. It's not anyone's fault that you can't comprehend that.
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So in other words, it seems we all agree that OWS overpromised and underdelivered?

Seraphinianus said:
I hate these threads...OP has a question, gets his answer, but instead of actually absorbing the information people give him, he reveals that he actually had an agenda and wasn't just trying to get informed.
Click to expand...

How dare I simultaneously ask a question and have an opinion!
 
Seraphinianus said:
I hate these threads...OP has a question, gets his answer, but instead of actually absorbing the information people give him, he reveals that he actually had an agenda and wasn't just trying to get informed. Get your own talk radio show if you want to have a one sided discussion preceded by a seemingly neutral-but-actually-rhetorical question.
Click to expand...

That's because this thread wasn't "hey let's have a civil discussion about OWS", it's "haha OWS sucked, don't you agree?"
 
So what's the point with this civil rights movement? All they do is sit in front of the bus and screw up our seating.
 
kurtrussell said:
How dare I simultaneously ask a question and have an opinion!
Click to expand...


but some of us are smart enough to suss out when others aren't actually hearing anything else anyone is saying. I've had enough inane arguments in my life to know when I'm wasting my time. and no, I'm not asking you to agree, but your line of questioning/argumentation shows that this is just to kill time or get people riled up or something. The funny part is that we agree at the base-- that yes, there were big promises made with OWS that weren't instantaneously delivered on...but what the hell are they gonna do? call it the "lets just get some discussion about income inequality going" movement?

you aim high and see what you get.
 
OWS began a debate that has only just started. The original intent of the OWS founders was to sit in, meet with those who came out, and then pack it up come winter to re-group and re-energize. (AdBusters said this from the beginning.) That there were sympathy Occupies in places that didn't share all of America's woes was interesting as well.

The whole 1% and 99% has now entered the mainstream dialogue. It's on the front page of the New York Times website just today as a matter of fact. That's a powerful thing, to enter the minds of the nation in such a way. Wealth disparity has become an issue that will shape politics in the years to come.

What's interesting is that these protest happened throughout the world with various effects. Some tyrants fell but to expect the same to occur in the U.S. wasn't realistic. We are talking about a super-power with plenty of remaining riches whos populous is still mostly controlled by a subtle and sophisticated propaganda engine. It's not merely a bigger target but the biggest target there is.

It will take a whole lot more than OWS to return America to it's rightful owners.
 
kurtrussell said:
I'm not belittling them, I'm just pointing out that they achieved nothing due to an inability to make their minds up, and they wasted an opportunity in terms of media space, awareness and presence that you couldn't ever buy. The question was: what would you do to switch this around? So far, nobody seems to know what the answer is.

However, in the spirit of the whole 99% movement, I'm going to start my own protest: Occupy Sega

I am in the 99% who want Shenmue 3. The 1% at Sega are stopping it from happening. I am currently on my way to purchase a tent so I can camp out at Ōta. Who's with me, comrades?
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Yeah...
 
XMonkey said:
What did they promise, kurt?
Click to expand...

Well so far, in amongst the lists and lists of things they want to magically happen, such as "tighten banking-industry regulations, ban high-frequency trading, arrest all 'financial fraudsters' responsible for the 2008 crash and a 'Robin Hood' tax", they have so far promised to return to their disbanded camps. And they couldn't even get that one right....

Ultimately, the perceived inequalities of the west, and to a greater extent the world, are still there - surprisingly, as a result of sitting in tents for 4 months, nothing has changed. But hey, some of the Occupy movement media room "volunteers" got something cool to add to their resumes, so it's not all bad!
 
Awareness. Highlighting the concerns of the lower and middle classes. Shaking up the elite a bit, and highlighting just how much of a near Police State the US has become. Freedom of speech, freedom to protest etc, all of it apparently isn't given as much clout if it upsets the establishment or the higher ups.
 
nib95 said:
Awareness. Highlighting the concerns of the lower and middle classes. Shaking up the elite a bit, and highlighting just how much of a near Police State the US has become. Freedom of speech, freedom to protest etc, all of it apparently isn't worth shit if it upsets the establishment or the higher ups.
Click to expand...

You have no idea what a police state is.
 
confused said:
Life is unequal, but to pretend that there are no opportunities for the lower/middle class is just absurd. Do they have to work harder and do they have a smaller shot than someone from the upper class. Yes, but sometimes they take that opportunity and create something so big that it lifts their whole families, from lower to middleclass or even higher.

How many high-class people ever end up lower-class ? Never really happens does it ?
Click to expand...
We're not talking about life, we're talking about society! A hedge fund manager being paid 252 million dollars a year isn't some mystery of life it's a planned intervention by people within society who are deciding on the monetary worth of an individual. Same with institutionalised racism with university/work environments, they're not like rock formations, naturally occurring, they happen because society has constructed itself this way.

And the rich staying rich is unequal too, it's not about everyone being rich it's about providing a society that allows everyone equal opportunities to live their lives.
 
MC Safety said:
You have no idea what a police state is.
Click to expand...

Course I do. Naturally I was exaggerating, but the US theoretically could be quite close to it. Literally abuse, beat and mame people just for being in a certain place, protesting etc, locking people up for doing so, using the private property argument which is null anyway and now they can lock you up indefinitely without charge or trial, just for a suspicion of something. Add to that, the grotesque bias of the media and it's ability to manipulate and skew exactly to it's own agenda (which it very much did with OWS) it's just all pathetic.
 
dcdobson said:
This, arguably: http://pewresearch.org/pubs/2167/rich-poor-social-conflict-class

It's helped to drive the political conversation leftward, which is extremely important, given how significant this year's elections are going to be.
Click to expand...

Arguably indeed ... if you are someone that supports a particular party .... now what has it accomplished as far as a constructive conversation. Anecdotal as it might be, there was far more slogan and "change all the things" than constructive, well thought out ideas coming from the OWS group. A hand full had some alright ideas, but the masses knew the slogans and were pissed off. Also, what about the silly offshoot sit-ins that occurred outside the U.S. Lets take the Vancouver protest. How is this garbage supposed to accomplish anything. To be fair, I don't see free Tibet.... thankfully.
 
kurtrussell said:
Well so far, in amongst the lists and lists of things they want to magically happen, such as "tighten banking-industry regulations, ban high-frequency trading, arrest all 'financial fraudsters' responsible for the 2008 crash and a 'Robin Hood' tax", they have so far promised to return to their disbanded camps. And they couldn't even get that one right....

Ultimately, the perceived inequalities of the west, and to a greater extent the world, are still there - surprisingly, as a result of sitting in tents for 4 months, nothing has changed. But hey, some of the Occupy movement media room "volunteers" got something cool to add to their resumes, so it's not all bad!
Click to expand...

The Occupy is not the first attempt to resolve the Economic systems downsides. We have the Venus Project that has been proposed that was never taken seriously. We got the Zietgiest Movement that is doing something but I have no real idea what. The Occupy movement is at the very least the third and in my opinion the biggest attempt to change the system in some fashion in a significant matter. As shit doesn't get sorted the first time it will evolve and maybe new protest groups or organisations will appear to change what is gravely flawed.

In my opinion its only natural as the banks really took the piss and it doesnt look like its gonna get better anytime soon.
 
jchap said:
Large protest groups eventually become defined by fringe loons who attend them with attention drawing signs. It happened to the tea party. It happened to OWS.
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Which are then further defined by the opposing viewpoint's reaction to them.

Difference is, the Tea Party was allowed to keep an air of legitimacy because while the major media outlets with a liberal bent may not have been in their corner, they still covered their actions pretty respectfully, the namecalling and smear pieces were left to the fringe.

The major right wing media outlets, on the other hand, have no qualms with engaging in constant and furious mudslinging against whatever they're opposed to.
 
OWS was at least as successful if not more successful than the Tea Party.

While the Tea Party succeeded in winning a few elections, they were a Republican controlled group that got Republican candidates elected. Basically a glorified PAC

OWS brought issues that neither party wants to hear about into the national dialogue. Something much harder to do
 
nib95 said:
Course I do. Naturally I was exaggerating, but the US theoretically could be quite close to it. Literally abuse, beat and mame people just for being in a certain place, protesting etc, locking people up for doing so, using the private property argument which is null anyway and now they can lock you up indefinitely without charge or trial, just for a suspicion of something. Add to that, the grotesque bias of the media and it's ability to manipulate and skew exactly to it's own agenda (which it very much did with OWS) it's just all pathetic.
Click to expand...

Exaggerating, theoretically, and could be quite close ... that's an awful lot of equivocation for one sentence.

And now they can lock you up indefinitely without charge or trial just for suspicion of something? Well, that's just factually incorrect.

I'd go into your arguments about police power, but it seems you've got your mind made up. There have been police excesses, but that is not the beginning and the end of the story. I do not imagine the overzealous cops are the rule, but rather the exception, and I think the evidence bears it out.

Gustav said:
They are basically the Peter Molyneux of movements.
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Except Peter Molyneux has created a sizable body of work that's not easily dismissed by sneering fanboys.
 
dave is ok said:
OWS was at least as successful if not more successful than the Tea Party.

While the Tea Party succeeded in winning a few elections, they were a Republican controlled group that got Republican candidates elected. Basically a glorified PAC

OWS brought issues that neither party wants to hear about into the national dialogue. Something much harder to do
Click to expand...

To bad you have a 2 party system.
 
Sh1ner said:
In my opinion its only natural as the banks really took the piss and it doesnt look like its gonna get better anytime soon.
Click to expand...

I understand why people are so angry with the banks, and I got reamed by them when I was a student. However, I found a more proactive solution to just change to a Building Society that treated me better. If everybody did this, would the banks not be forced to change their practices?

Shig said:
The major right wing media outlets, on the other hand, have no qualms with engaging in constant and furious mudslinging against whatever they're opposed to.
Click to expand...

There wasn't a lot of negative coverage though was there? Throughout the whole four months, I only saw negative coverage on Fox News, South Park (if that counts), and the BBC of all places....
 
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