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[Andonuts]

A MISERABLE LITTLE PILE OF SECRETS!

Seriously though. One of the things I keep seeing popping up on this board is people talking about games like Nintendogs or Brain Training as "non-games" (usually followed by a "lol"). The implication here is that other games (like, I guess, Devil May Cry? Ridge Racer?) have a more inherent "gamey" aspect to them that makes people categorize them as "games". This raises some interesting questions:

-what is a videogame, then really? how are they different from or similar to games in real life, such sports like soccer and football, board games like checkers and chess, card games like poker and blackjack, etc. is there a distinction to be made here, too?
-if these "non-games" are indeed, not games, then what in fact, are they? edutainment?
-where do you draw the line between a game and a non-game?

So, neogaf? In 30 words or less, what is your definition of a videogame?

Thank you for reading this post.

 

[Masklinn]

In my opinion, a video game is any software product I can (could) have fun with, as long as it's not related to programming.

Of course, by this definition the very concept of "non-games" doesn't exist.

Even if I don't like Nintendogs, AC or Brain Training, I acknowledge that I could have fun with them, and they're therefore games.

 

[winston_pr]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4628069&postcount=51

 

[Andonuts]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4628069&postcount=51

Thread over?

Wait no, please reply more to my thread neogaf!!

 

[thetrin]

A game is an activity that I derive enjoyment from. That's it. Sorry guys. Non games don't exist.

 

[the year 20XX]

A MISERABLE LITTLE PILE OF SECRETS!

DAMMIT beaten by the OP

Your thread is as empty as your soul.

 

[Andonuts]

DAMMIT beaten by the OP

Your thread is as empty as your soul.

I threw that in there because I knew if I didn't that would be the only reply I'd get.

But enough talk! Have at you!

 

[Morbid Angel]

A game is an activity that I derive enjoyment from. That's it. Sorry guys. Non games don't exist.

What if you derive enjoyment from killing people? Is that a game too?

 

[HomShaBom]

What if you derive enjoyment from killing people? Is that a game too?

To the person doing the killing, yes.

 

[iapetus]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4628069&postcount=51

Woohoo! I win!

 

[Uncle]

I think the non-game is just a name to differ games with actual goals from software toy type games. I don't understand why people are so sensitive about it.

 

[MoxManiac]

A game to me is one that challenges the player; where defeat or failure is possible if victory is not obtained. A risk/reward proposition. I suppose in this aspect, Brain Training passes the test, because as I understand it, it is possible to answer questions incorrectly, thus the player is being challenged on an intellectual level.

 

[plagiarize]

interactive electronic entertainment.

that's it for me. so anything from trivia dvds, to the sims, to tetris, to simulations, to halo.

i don't believe in non games.

 

[Andonuts]

I think the non-game is just a name to differ games with actual goals from software toy type games. I don't understand why people are so sensitive about it.

It's because the term "non-game" is almost universally used in a derogatory sense.

I'm just curious about how the term is actually defined. Should I change the thread title to preface with "semantics-age"?

 

[DeathCabCute]

interactive electronic entertainment.

that's it for me. so anything from trivia dvds, to the sims, to tetris, to simulations, to halo.

i don't believe in non games.

Seconded....

Any game played through a video interface and game playing suggests interaction with the progression of the story. In this sense even something like the Final Destination 3 dvd could be considered a game since you are interacating or controlling it on some level by choosing character's fate.

It's because the term "non-game" is almost universally used in a derogatory sense.

I'm just curious about how the term is actually defined. Should I change the thread title to preface with "semantics-age"?

Sometimes you need semantics to disprove ignorant labels people try to apply to things they dislike to de-value them. It's on a game system, you push buttons all the way through it, it's a game. /end

 

[Kabouter]

In my opinion, a video game is any software product I can (could) have fun with, as long as it's not related to programming.

Photoshop = game

 

[Andonuts]

So firefox browsing neogaf = game?

The internet = game?

Text messaging on my cell phone = MMOG?

 

[Dilbert]

We already did this discussion -- use the search feature.

 

[bud]

Life is a game.

 

[Fallout-NL]

A game is an activity that I derive enjoyment from. That's it. Sorry guys. Non games don't exist.

I dont derive enjoyment from non-games though. Technically, of course, they're games. I just think they suck.


edit: I also seem to dislike sports games that do not allow me to drive around high powered vehicles in an irresponsible fashion.

 

[Danthrax]

Life is a game.

But life isn't a computer program...

OR IS IT

 

[DeathCabCute]

So firefox browsing neogaf = game?

The internet = game?

Text messaging on my cell phone = MMOG?

Internet is more of menu browsing since you're only making selections to move to different locations, like an index in the back of a book.

I guess text messaging on a cell phone could be considered a game but that depends on if you consider a conversation with your girlfriend a game? You interact with seaman in a similiar way right? What about pocket poyo? I'm sure when AI gets better text messaging with friends and talking to AI in a game will become more indistinguishable. (imho).

 

[Wilkes]

we have to wait for the Wii to know ok toups

 

[plagiarize]

But life isn't a computer program...

OR IS IT

it isn't.

 

[travisbickle]

Internet is more of menu browsing since you're only making selections to move to different locations, like an index in the back of a book.

I guess text messaging on a cell phone could be considered a game but that depends on if you consider a conversation with your girlfriend a game? You interact with seaman in a similiar way right? What about pocket poyo? I'm sure when AI gets better text messaging with friends and talking to AI in a game will become more indistinguishable. (imho).

Wait...........what?

 

[plagiarize]

So firefox browsing neogaf = game?

The internet = game?

Text messaging on my cell phone = MMOG?

no. the internet isn't interactive in that way. it's like arguing that TV is a game because you can change channels. that's different to affecting a story.

a choose your own text based adventure on the internet though? yeah i'd call that a game.

personally i'd rather an inclusive definition than an exclusive one.

 

[bud]

it isn't.

how would you know

 

[Pureauthor]

personally i'd rather an inclusive definition than an exclusive one.

A WINNAR IS YOU!

 

[Error]

A game is an activity that I derive enjoyment from. That's it. Sorry guys. Non games don't exist.

I agree with this, I never understood this non-game stuff. to me they are games, just with a different focus/direction.

 

[Andonuts]

Internet is more of menu browsing since you're only making selections to move to different locations, like an index in the back of a book.

I guess text messaging on a cell phone could be considered a game but that depends on if you consider a conversation with your girlfriend a game? You interact with seaman in a similiar way right? What about pocket poyo? I'm sure when AI gets better text messaging with friends and talking to AI in a game will become more indistinguishable. (imho).

My girlfriend's AI isn't quite as good as Seaman's actually

 

[ziran]

like others have said, a game is something i gain enjoyment from. there's no distinction for me between so called non-games and games.

interestingly the term non-game and non-gamer is often used by nintendo to categorise brain training etc, but it's for definition. the term videogame is seen as negative by much of the audience they were/are targetting. however, i'm sure nintendo would be the first to admit they're still videogames.

in many ways these games are closer to what a videogame was, than the cinematic, realistic games today, although all have evolved and are related to pong, space invaders, pacman, donkey kong, etc.

it's become a derogatory expression, because it represents things many existing gamers don't like.

the only types of experience i would consider true non-games, would be what peter jackson sounds like he's attempting on 360, but even then if there's choice and enjoyment, it may still be a kind of game.

 

[beelzebozo]

oh, come on. we all know why "non-games" gets used. it's already been said.

It's because the term "non-game" is almost universally used in a derogatory sense.

bingo. it's a troll tool. anytime someone who is angered by the fact that there are more non-games than hardcore shmups these days enters a thread discussing something they don't approve of, just imagine them pulling out their big troll hammer to try and break up your fun.

 

[DeathCabCute]

My teacher in school used to say "Don't think of it as work, just make a game of it!".

Ok, so she didn't really say that. But somebody's teacher said that to someone somewhere once. So take what you can from it.

My girlfriend's AI isn't quite as good as Seaman's actually

This sounds like a good thing. Until you've beaten that game .

 

[Andonuts]

oh, come on. we all know why "non-games" gets used. it's already been said.



bingo. it's a troll tool. anytime someone who is angered by the fact that there are more non-games than hardcore shmups these days enters a thread discussing something they don't approve of, just imagine them pulling out their big troll hammer to try and break up your fun.

So you're saying several of the mods and admins here are trolls?

 

[Alski]

For something to be a game (board, video, and even sport) there needs to be 3 components.

First there needs to be an Action on the part of the player or user. This could be:
• Pressing a button
• Moving a playing piece
• Running down a field.

Next there must be a Challenge...
• Pressing the button at exactly the right time.
• Moving your playing piece to the safest location.
• Running faster then your opponent.
On the opposite side of this spectrum is Chance... Gabbling is a great example of this. Some games will use a combination of both.

Lastly there needs to be Reward.
The Reward is what makes the Action and Challenge/Chance so motivating to the player and if you succeeded the reward that is gained is that much more valuable.

Also if you remove Challenge and Chance leaving the user with Action and Reward you get most pieces of software. Action == Type in a web address in Firefox
Reward == Webpage is displayed.

A game is:
• Action
• Chalange or Chance
• Reward

So you be the judge. Does Nintendogs fit into this model?

 

[beelzebozo]

i'm not pointing any fingers, but many a hand swings the hammer. you know as well as i do that it's just a derogatory way of justifying people's tastes. why dance around it?

 

[Amir0x]

i like where this is going already

 

[Andonuts]

i like where this is going already

I am glad this thread is Amir0x-approved. Does this mean I can get a new custom title now?

 

[Amir0x]

you already have a title, there are more needy forumers who still live everyday without one

 

[Andonuts]

It is my gift. It is my curse.

 

[Speevy]

For me, a game is an entertaining and distracting series of activities that allows me to enjoy creativity, exercise mental agility, and/or experience a sense of explorative storytelling.

 

[Brobzoid]

games need an end-state. No- "You beat the biggest ****er in this entire universe, a winner is you", no game.

 

[Campster]

Games are a subset of interactive systems whose boundaries are somewhat subjective. Game, set, match.

 

[Campster]

games need an end-state. No- "You beat the biggest ****er in this entire universe, a winner is you", no game.

Tag? The Sims? GTA3? SimCity? Cops and robbers?

 

[Andonuts]

games need an end-state. No- "You beat the biggest ****er in this entire universe, a winner is you", no game.

So Pong isn't a game? Tetris isn't a game? Mario Bros. (arcade) isn't a game? Arcade games in general aren't games?

What about Grand Theft Auto? Even after you "beat" it, the game isn't ever over, and it's never complete. So is it a game or not? Is it a psuedo-game? Is there middle territory?

 

[Uncle]

It's because the term "non-game" is almost universally used in a derogatory sense.

Yeah, I know, but IMO it's just silly to take offense about something like that.

 

[Brobzoid]

So Pong isn't a game? Tetris isn't a game? Mario Bros. (arcade) isn't a game? Arcade games in general aren't games?

What about Grand Theft Auto? Even after you "beat" it, the game isn't ever over, and it's never complete. So is it a game or not? Is it a psuedo-game? Is there middle territory?

arcade games should be score based and have a final level. GTA has a end game, you're allowed to play beyond it. Sim city is a simulation game, which is a non-game.

 

[MoxManiac]

So Pong isn't a game? Tetris isn't a game? Mario Bros. (arcade) isn't a game? Arcade games in general aren't games?

What about Grand Theft Auto? Even after you "beat" it, the game isn't ever over, and it's never complete. So is it a game or not? Is it a psuedo-game? Is there middle territory?

In my personal defiinition they are. Pong, Tetris and the like all have defeat conditions. It could be argued that simcity can too (run out of money, city destroyed)

 

[Brobzoid]

In my personal defiinition they are. Pong, Tetris and the like all have defeat conditions. It could be argued that simcity can too (run out of money, city destroyed)

ooh, I like this better.

I will restate my posision; Games should have a "win/lose" state.

 

[Andonuts]

Yeah, I know, but IMO it's just silly to take offense about something like that.

Well I'm not offended, just curious. And it's annoying, as well, to see someone dismiss an interesting looking piece of entertainment because it's a "non-game".