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So, what is exactly a real final fantasy?

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fireflame

Member
A lot of series have a common ground and even if all fans do not share same opinion, there are often specific points where everyone seems to agree. But final fantasy seems to be one of the most polarizing series and it seems that each episode since FF7 has supporters and people who are disappointed.


It is hard for me to have an idea about what defines a ff because each time, the universe and characters changes, and there are only a few elements that stay, like mogs, chocobos, and Aeons. FF15 was sometimes considered to not be a real ff for this ARPG gameplay, so i wonder, what codes define a FF? If its not turn per turn, characters, can we reallyy assume there is a code to follow to make a ff? If Square Enix makes a big budget jrpg, can they just call it final fantasy and not care about specific elements?
 
"but it's not a fantasy setting"
"but it doesn't have a job system"
"but it doesn't have ATB"
"but it's linear"
"but it's a MMO"
"but it's action"
 
fireflame said:
If Square Enix makes a big budget jrpg, can they just call it final fantasy and not care about specific elements?
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It is true that both Xenogears and Parasite Eve started out as rejected concepts for Final Fantasy VII. But if either of them had ended up being FF7 they probably would have had the obligatory references to monsters, potions/ethers, fire/fira/firaga magic, etc.
 
If Square calls it Final Fantasy.

There are aspects that make it FF for sure, enemies, character names, musical themes, crystals ect.

While I don't like every Final Fantasy I can acknowledge them as a real Final Fantasy. My dislike of a game doesn't make it any less real or legitimate. The players don't decide what makes Final Fantasy a Final Fantasy.
 
The gameplay mechanics stayed incredibly similar for the overwhelming majority of the numbered entries. XII was the first one that really strayed pretty far or XI if you want to count that.

That means we had 10 entries that had a very similar gameplay DNA before they started to change things up. It makes sense that the games that started to be pretty different would be looked at as out of place by some fans. I think it's a bunch of bullshit, but I can see why it has happened.
 
XV was the biggest different Final Fantasy for me. It was at it's roots and how grandiose it was but it was a different game.
 
The Final Fantasy series started losing its identity around the release of VII, and by the time XII rolled in it was gone completely. These days it's a series of completely disparate RPGs slapped with the same name, with only some vague references like chocobos and summons to hint at commonality. They're not necessarily worse games for it, but it is a little sad that what was once a cohesive series is no longer; you can't tell someone who loved FFVI that they'll love XII, XIII, or XV, because those games are speaking four different languages.
 
At this point it's just an overarching brand for a series of JRPGs and dozens of spin-offs. Really the brand name is a forum for their designers, artists etc to let their imaginations run wild, while recognising that the familiarity of a brand name brings sales as customers tend to buy names they remember. At least it keeps the worlds fresh over thirty years. One of my favourite things about FF is that if you don't like a game, a combat system or the characters, even it's direct sequels are likely to be quite different.
 
At one point I would have said they're games with great characters to go on a true journey on that would change them and feel like that really summed up the series essence super well. That was kinda over a decade ago.
 
A game called Final Fantasy made by the people who own the ip.

People just like to pretend otherwise since they can't reconcile with their own preferences not being objective fact.
 
ASaiyan said:
The Final Fantasy series started losing its "soul" around the release of VII, and by the time XII rolled in it was gone completely..
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Nah, this is just wrong. VIII, IX, X, XII, and I'd even say parts of XIII are all excellent. Sounds like you just burnt out.
 
Final Fantasy always reinvents itself. The problem right now is the long development cycles and focus on spin-offs over mainline.

Look at Xenoblade - 3 games in 7 years. That's what Final Fantasy needs to aspire towards.

But instead they're going to focus on a remake no one will end up liking, that will come out next generation if we're lucky
 
I think we should stop questioning what is or isn't a "real" Final Fantasy and just focus on whether or not the game is good and if you personally (not other people) liked it.
 
Vincent Grayson said:
If the people making it put in the mainline numbering it's a "real" FF. The rest are spinoffs.
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star-trek-nodding.gif
 
Whenever I see people go "X game isn't a real entry in Y series" all I can think is "the good thing about facts is that they're true even if you don't like them."
 
Final Fantasy mechanics, art style, types of stories being told, and music have changed a lot over the years and had several different creative teams working on mainline titles. It's not like Dragon Quest or Pokemon, long-running JRPGs series that have remained pretty constant in creative staff and feel for their whole history. Because of that, Final Fantasy means different things to different people, which is why there's nothing even approaching consensus on what the best or even the "good" games are in the series.

But a "real" Final Fantasy is whatever Square-Enix says it is when they eventually get around to deciding what the fuck it is they want to do.

ASaiyan said:
you can't tell someone who loved FFVI that they'll love XII, XIII, or XV, because those games are speaking four different languages.
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I'd actually be fairly confident in recommending XII to someone who enjoyed VI. Besides Tactics, VI is probably the game that XII most closely resembles.
 
Anything the devs numbers as a mainline entry and that's it.

e.g FF13 is no less of a main final fantasy just because the fans didn't like it.
 
I see weirdly people get hung up on the semantics of it. And sure they're right on that.
But isn't it clear when people decry the realness of something they're speaking to the fact of established DNA of a franchise being so different it loses the spirit of it to them?
Are people purposefully playing dumb on that part? Like jeez, context and interpretation were a thing as far as I know.

There's a reason why people reject certain entries of FF because they're not carrying on what they loved about the franchise to begin with as there are reasons why the large majority of people would not dispute Bloodborne having the essence of Souls. Heck the concept of the essence of a Souls game is strong enough to even be prescribed to games not made by Fromsoft.

Fact of the matter is despite myths like FF was never about story or it always reinvents itself is that a major chunk of all mainline FF entries shared a very strong DNA that has been lost in newer entries. There are strong arguments for titles like Trails/Bravely Default being games that carry the spiritual torch of FF way better than 13-15 does.
 
For me, it's about a certain feeling, the "Friends huddled around a campfire going against impossible odds" thing. It's hard to explain.
Objectively, though, i got nothing except Square deciding it is.
 
Any game with one or more Chocobos in. That's literally the only thing these games have in common.

Ironically, that means the Original Final Fantasy isn't a real Final Fantasy.
 
I hate the use of the word 'real' to describe specific games in a franchise. If it was made by Square or with their permission then it is a Final Fantasy game. Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles is as real a Final Fantasy game to me as Final Fantasy VI is.
 
Vincent Grayson said:
If the people making it put in the mainline numbering it's a "real" FF. The rest are spinoffs.
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Pretty much this. Although I never really warmed up to the idea of FFXI and XIV being mainline games. They are of course good games, but somehow I get a spin-off vibe from them due to their MMO nature.
 
It's whatever one enjoys. I prefer the ATB games, especially, 4/6/9. Someone else might prefer 1, or 3, or 7, or 12. The series is pretty diverse.
 
HvySky said:
Nah, this is just wrong. VIII, IX, X, XII, and I'd even say parts of XIII are all excellent. Sounds like you just burnt out.
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You're misunderstanding me. As I said right in that post, I'm not at all claiming the games have become bad recently; I actually liked XIII, and I played XV all the way through as well (let alone IX and X, which are both great). All I said was that the series really isn't a cohesive "series" like Dragon Quest or Pokemon anymore, but a disparate collection of very different games.

Spiritwalker said:
Yeah, that's bullshit and I've been a fan since the 90s. XII is awesome and has plenty of "soul". It's just different.
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Same misunderstanding here; in fact, this is exactly my point. I'm not questioning FFXII's sense of "soul" and personality, merely pointing out the fact that it is different. There was once a cohesive "Final Fantasy soul" that tied all the games in the series together with common gameplay elements and feel; now there are new games that wear the FF title, and while they each have their own "souls" and are certainly not bad games, they relate to the classic series pretty much in name only. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, though I do think it's a bit of shame ("¿Porque no los dos?").
 
ASaiyan said:
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I get what you're saying. With Pokemon and Dragon Quest you know exactly what you're getting when you jump into any of their mainline titles. With Final Fantasy they're constantly changing with each new entry. I like that though, keeps things fresh for me.
 
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