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[onQ123]

One minute Cross-Gen is a problem but it seems no one is willing to deal with the growing pains that come with devs moving on to a higher floor.

I remember when Crysis was praised because the people on lower end PCs couldn't run the game & people laughed at the thought of it running on the current consoles until it adventually came to consoles 4 years later.

 

[ungalo]

Right now we have neither ambition nor optimization.

 

[bbeach123]

One minute Cross-Gen is a problem but it seems no one is willing to deal with the growing pains that come with devs moving on to a higher floor.

I remember when Crysis was praised because the people on lower end PCs couldn't run the game & people laughed at the thought of it running on the current consoles until it adventually came to consoles 4 years later.

Because its actually look like something lower end PCs couldnt run so no one was mad .

 

[DenchDeckard]

Looks like devs are struggling with moving from cross platform games to next gen only.

 

[T4keD0wN]

Theres a difference between pushing the limits (Crysis, which ran pretty well on my dated 7800gt btw) and completely failing at something medioce. Stuff that is far from cutting edge and uses the hardware to 30% of its potential and was superceded by previous generation of consoles already.

You can take the fact that since most of those get fixed anyway as proof it isnt any hardware limitation, but just software being pushed out before its ready due to management problems.
(managers wont get bonuses if they have to delay the products, but they might get bonuses for lowering expense by wrapping up earlier, this can lead to unfinished games being released)

It would be one thing if they were using the extra power to move to the higher floor, but some are just using the extra power to do less work and because they want articles about how their game was made in record time written about them.

 

[Thirty7ven]

PC gamers are always crying anyway, devs actually don’t care that much which is why they ship the games anyway. Online hoopla oopla barely moves the needle.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Imagine comparing Crysis which does more than modern AAA junk, to an unoptimized trash port of a game that barely looks better than a PS4 game.

If you can’t see the difference then you deserve the AAA slop publishers are feeding you.

 

[Portugeezer]

If something is pushing the limits, people will accept certain things.

The 60fps master race was enjoying 20fps Crysis back in 2007.

PC gamers are always crying anyway, devs actually don’t care that much which is why they ship the games anyway. Online hoopla oopla barely moves the needle.

The least the devs could have done is to delay the PC version of some games. It was a common thing a couple gens ago.

 

[Dane]

As someone who i've been playing on PC for 20 years, most of the time the issues will not get fixed at all, they will just patch up whatever they can, but rarely it will fix, more like they would have to "re-port" the game like they did with Ark on Switch. These issues are almost always in tandem with consoles, GTA IV which ran awful on dual cores but somewhat ok on quad cores has very poor scalability which makes the framerate float from 100 to 45 then 60-70-80, this also appears on the Series S and X backwards compatibility when it drops from 60 to 30-45 for no reason, since in the original hardware it was unlocked but hardly above 30.

And Crysis was limited on the CPU side of the things, but its easy to get 60 FPS with max settings at 1080P, but it hardly keeps above 100 FPS , it wasn't that poorly optimized for its day, as hardware became more powerful for its showcase it was easier to hit max setttings, it ran better than GTA IV in the conjuncture. It just that it doesn't scale to run at 144 FPS like other old games.

And the Xbox 360 and PS3 port was a more optimized version that ran on the Crysis 2 or 3 Crytek engine IIRC, Crysis 2 for all I can remember playing is way easier to go to 144 FPS on PC.

 

[poppabk]

One minute Cross-Gen is a problem but it seems no one is willing to deal with the growing pains that come with devs moving on to a higher floor.

I remember when Crysis was praised because the people on lower end PCs couldn't run the game & people laughed at the thought of it running on the current consoles until it adventually came to consoles 4 years later.

I remember running Crysis at maybe 20fps at a crazy mix of high, mid and low settings and it was worth it as it still looked so much better than other games and had gameplay elements that were pretty extreme at the time - physics, semi-open world.
So when devs hit this mark - not Gotham Knights.

 

[nkarafo]

Crysis tech was beyond console specs at the time. It was made with the highest PC specs in mind and the game itself was very ambitious technically. It was the most advanced looking game at the time.

Shitty AAA modern games are console games first and foremost. That's the target platform. And yet they run like shit on much higher PC specs that, normally, should be able to run these games with ease. They are also far from being the best looking games, or the most ambitious technically. There are better looking games that run much bettr on the same PCs.

In conclusion, if you think something like the Harry Potter game, or the LOU remaster, or that recent Star Wars game are anywhere near similar cases to Crysis... I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Right now we have neither ambition nor optimization.

One and done.

 

[feynoob]

One minute Cross-Gen is a problem but it seems no one is willing to deal with the growing pains that come with devs moving on to a higher floor.

I remember when Crysis was praised because the people on lower end PCs couldn't run the game & people laughed at the thought of it running on the current consoles until it adventually came to consoles 4 years later.

There is something called balance.
You have to deal with the consequences of your ambitions.
People's hardwork money isnt your gamble site.

 

[Fuz]

Define "ambitious".

 

[Gaiff]

I remember when Crysis was praised because the people on lower end PCs couldn't run the game & people laughed at the thought of it running on the current consoles until it adventually came to consoles 4 years later.

The console version was shit-tier and ran horribly. Low-end PCs could also run it alright if you went easy on the settings. What made Crysis impressive was how high the graphics could go. It scaled fairly decently with modest hardware.

 

[Mister Wolf]

When there aren't games that look better than your from a technical standpoint already released that have much better performance. Including games that are using the exact same engine as well.

 

[onQ123]

Looks like devs are struggling with moving from cross platform games to next gen only.

It's expensive to make games now & they need as much return on investment as possible.

Just imagine working harder just to get back less because you cut off most of your user base . So it seems they are stuck trying to run on hundreds of different specs .

 

[Dane]

The console version was shit-tier and ran horribly. Low-end PCs could also run it alright if you went easy on the settings. What made Crysis impressive was how high the graphics could go. It scaled fairly decently with modest hardware.

It was impressive on the consoles, but had low res and ran at like 20-25 FPS indeed, i'm shocked at how Unreal engine used to be a warranty of optimized game on all platforms while proprietary engines were 8 or 80, now its becoming the opposite. Games like Doom 3 (and Crysis) were justified hardware crushers at launch but would get easier to run on newer systems.

 

[ReBurn]

Hardware companies need to start optimizing their products better so they can keep up with these ambitious developers. There's no reason the hardware shouldn't be able to scale to compensate for ambition.

 

[Gaiff]

"Next-gen" games that run like poo and are 1080p in performance mode.

Cross-gen games that run well and at 1440p 50-60fps in performance mode.

 

[sachos]

Well thats a bit of a false equivalence don't you think? Bad port != Ambitious.

 

[Schmendrick]

OP can't differentiate between ambitious and incompetent.
Nothing, absolutely nothing, of the issues we see right now is due to the software actually being "ambitious" at all....

 

[onQ123]

Well thats a bit of a false equivalence don't you think? Bad port != Ambitious.

I said when will they be free to be ambitious as in actually make a game that can only run on specs above the average PC.

If things are this bad now what will happen if someone tried to go all out ?

 

[BennyBlanco]

Having standards = “crying”

You can keep buying up this slop, OP. I’m cool waiting for them to be fixed and cheap.

 

[GHG]

There's a problem with this whole "next gen" moniker - it's nothing more than a myth given the circumstances with the spread of hardware that has to be developed for at the moment. It's one of the smallest (if not the smallest - I can't recall a smaller % delta in my lifetime) console gen on gen increases we've ever had.

So no, we won't be seeing much in the way of "ambitious" projects.

 

[ahtlas7]

Having standards = “crying”

You can keep buying up this slop, OP. I’m cool waiting for them to be fixed and cheap.

Exactly this!
70-80€ and accept whatever you’re given because if you complain you’ll be shamed by your peers. Unreal!

 

[Drizzlehell]

PC gamers are always crying anyway, devs actually don’t care that much which is why they ship the games anyway. Online hoopla oopla barely moves the needle.

Usually it's because they're being pushed by the publisher or investors to release early to make for better quarterly reports. Devs are the only ones who actually care about shipping a game in the best possible state.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I said when will they be free to be ambitious as in actually make a game that can only run on specs above the average PC.

If things are this bad now what will happen if someone tried to go all out ?

They have to become competent first before even consider going all out

 

[poppabk]

I said when will they be free to be ambitious as in actually make a game that can only run on specs above the average PC.

If things are this bad now what will happen if someone tried to go all out ?

Take a look at Cyberpunk pathtracing. Requires a top end graphics card and a whole bunch if image reconstruction. And people who can play it even with those caveats are happy and the rest of us are happy to look at their screenshots. And this is just lighting on an old game. Give me for example a city with AI generated interiors for every building and persistent destruction of anything and everything and even if it brings my PC to its knees I will either run it at 25FPS, 720p with no shadows or reflections just to play it or will be dreaming of new hardware that will give me access to it.

 

[onQ123]

There's a problem with this whole "next gen" moniker - it's nothing more than a myth given the circumstances with the spread of hardware that has to be developed for at the moment. It's one of the smallest (if not the smallest - I can't recall a smaller % delta in my lifetime) console gen on gen increases we've ever had.

So no, we won't be seeing much in the way of "ambitious" projects.

I think Rockstar has the leeway to be ambitious with GTA6 because people will actually go out & buy the hardware to play GTA6 & they know it's going to be around for years to come. So the game isn't going to live or die depending on the 1st year of sales .

 

[onQ123]

Take a look at Cyberpunk pathtracing. Requires a top end graphics card and a whole bunch if image reconstruction. And people who can play it even with those caveats are happy and the rest of us are happy to look at their screenshots. And this is just lighting on an old game. Give me for example a city with AI generated interiors for every building and persistent destruction of anything and everything and even if it brings my PC to its knees I will either run it at 25FPS, 720p with no shadows or reflections just to play it or will be dreaming of new hardware that will give me access to it.

The crazy thing is Cyberpunk almost died for it's ambition years ago & now they are redeeming themselves.

 

[Loomy]

Releasing your game before you optimize it for PC is not being ambitious. EA isn't releasing this game for some exotic, brand new set of hardware combinations. It's the same thing everyone is releasing for.

They did the same thing Sony did with TLoU Remake. They made the decision to release a highly anticipated game knowing it wasn't ready for PC. They made a calculated decision knowing people would still pay for it because A) they had already through dumb pre-orders, and B) most of the sale would probably be on console where the game would run better.

Don't mistake laziness and not giving a shit about your experience for ambitious.

 

[zeroluck]

Any Unreal Engine game by default cannot be ambitious tech/performance wise, since the reason they use Unreal is because they don't want to invest the engineering resources.

 

[DemonGamerTTT]

Right now we have neither ambition nor optimization.

This, we are paying costumers not life coaches., we are not here to make devs "few safe".

People like Op really have a hard time understanding that GAME IS BUSINESS and they should one up to their price.

This mentally that game development is also a inoffensive hobby (like playing games) and because of that should not critizided in any shape or form is the dumbest thing ever.... People like Op are the grand enablers of the "the less amount of effort can reward same proffiy" mentality that devs have today.

 

[LazyParrot]

It's not like the games most affected by this problem were all that innovative or ambitious in the first place lol

 

[Braag]

When they learn to use more than 4 cores of a CPU and utilize more than 30% of the GPU.

 

[onQ123]

It's not like the games most affected by this problem were all that innovative or ambitious in the first place lol

I know so imagine if they actually tried to push the limits & required higher specs to play a game.

 

[mdkirby]

When ai starts doing 80% of the work it’ll reduce risk, allowing for greater creative risks and more ambition.

 

[Wildebeest]

Why do they have to release for PC when they know in advance it is going to be a technological horror show and will not make customers happy? Money. The sort of games they are making are not financially viable enough without the additional revenue. Their business is neither "safe" nor suitably ambitious to draw in customers to their primary platform.

 

[Crayon]

Hurts feelings but there is a conversation to be had about development actually being sped up a bit thanks to fast io on consoles. Then it's and afterthought to go back and make it work that smooth on PC. Direct storage is anticipated for a reason. It's triggering to mention consoles might do anything better. It may just be some zero to small effect anyway and the issues are more on other factors.

 

[LazyParrot]

I know so imagine if they actually tried to push the limits & required higher specs to play a game.

You will never, ever see another Crysis on PC. It's financially unviable. There's a reason Crytek and other studios eventually started launching their games on consoles: AAA game development became so expensive that they were unlikely to turn a profit from PC sales alone, and costs have only gone up since.

 

[onQ123]

Hurts feelings but there is a conversation to be had about development actually being sped up a bit thanks to fast io on consoles. Then it's and afterthought to go back and make it work that smooth on PC. Direct storage is anticipated for a reason. It's triggering to mention consoles might do anything better. It may just be some zero to small effect anyway and the issues are more on other factors.

I can imagine FF16 devs looking at all the drama lately hoping it sale well enough on PS5 so they can take their time with a PC port

 

[Zathalus]

If the game justifies itself then having poor performance is fine. Cyberpunk Overdrive mode rendering at 20FPS 4k native is fine because the game is utilising path tracing and offers really good reconstruction techniques. Jedi Survivor does not because the game does not offer visuals or features that justify its insane requirements.

 

[Joshmyersbv]

Consumers need to have a higher standard when it comes to the quality of video games. It's because most consumers just accept the bare minimum, that the industry is in the position it's in now.

At the same time the industry needs to get better in terms of hiring better talent. The issues that are plaguing the industry now have gone on for three generations. We need to stop blaming the technology and the difficulty of working with it. I'm not the biggest fan of Indie developed games but there have been a good chunk of them that produced better games at a higher quality, more polish, with less manpower.

 

[onQ123]

If the game justifies itself then having poor performance is fine. Cyberpunk Overdrive mode rendering at 20FPS 4k native is fine because the game is utilising path tracing and offers really good reconstruction techniques. Jedi Survivor does not because the game does not offer visuals or features that justify its insane requirements.

Game actually look pretty good for the most part

 

[Zathalus]

Game actually look pretty good for the most part

Sure it looks good, but 600p on a PS5 good? Or sub 60fps on a 12900k CPU?

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

OP almost every assumption you made in that post is wrong as im sure many replies will tell you. What about this game is a) ambitious or b)"next gen" (it's only on next gen consoles but the game isn't actually doing anything "next gen"). What even makes you think that this game is optimized in the first place when it's already shown to be CPU limited and underutilized on both CPU and GPU?

Now, you could say that performance mode is doing something ambitious by including RT reflections and AO but then you'd have to question how an "ambitious" developer couldn't get that performance mode running CLOSE to 60 fps and why that same developer wouldn't include an optional mode without RT.

No, this is either a LAZY developer or an extremely rushed, unoptomized game. You must know this though already though because how else can you even explain this kind of performance when there are games like Ratchet and Horizon that ALSO have next gen features but manage to maintain a respectable resolution and framerate?

Are you just trolling anyway?

 

[onQ123]

OP almost every assumption you made in that post is wrong as im sure many replies will tell you. What about this game is a) ambitious or b)"next gen" (it's only on next gen consoles but the game isn't actually doing anything "next gen"). What even makes you think that this game is optimized in the first place when it's already shown to be CPU limited and underutilized on both CPU and GPU?

Now, you could say that performance mode is doing something ambitious by including RT reflections and AO but then you'd have to question how an "ambitious" developer couldn't get that performance mode running CLOSE to 60 fps and why that same developer wouldn't include an optional mode without RT.

No, this is either a LAZY developer or an extremely rushed, unoptomized game. You must know this though already though because how else can you even explain this kind of performance when there are games like Ratchet and Horizon that ALSO have next gen features but manage to maintain a respectable resolution and framerate?

Are you just trolling anyway?

I didn't say anything about a certain game I'm speaking in general

 

[Pasta la Vista]

The crazy thing is Cyberpunk almost died for it's ambition years ago & now they are redeeming themselves.

Almost died for it's ambition? What ambition was that?
To release on hardware that in no way could play it in an acceptable manner, or the ambition that they abandoned of actually making it an RPG and instead turned into a lifeless sandbox with shit AI and physics?
They worked on it for OVER 7 YEARS. And what came of it was a game that is no better than a regurgitation of a ubisoft open world.

 

[Senua]

I can imagine FF16 devs looking at all the drama lately hoping it sale well enough on PS5 so they can take their time with a PC port

more like FP16 amirite?