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[noizbot]

not convinced it'd be any good for lightgun games. Well, no better than a mouse and they aren't good. you can't actually aim at the screen, you have to move the cursor relative to where you are currently pointing.

There's a little lightgun-esque minigame in Monkeyball that works perfectly, where you have to shoot targets in numerical order -- there's no FPS-style headmotion. It's actually easier to aim at things than something like Duck Hunt.

Yeah, you're not pointing at the screen, and the Wiimote isn't even remotely a lightgun, but you seriously aren't aware of that.. or at least, I'm not. My brain knows I have to move the Wiimote in a certain way to aim at a particular part of the screen. It's an unconscious thing. The screenspace that your eye sees and the physical space that your hand occupies become associated quickly, and at that point, it's really not a big difference.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I would try fiddling around with the sensitivity. The game definitely has a steep learning curve, and the more used to FPSs with a normal pad you are the steeper that curve is going to be. I enjoy it quite a bit though, so persevere and you may too.

 

[noizbot]

i'm giving people the benefit of the doubt.

people who are really used to dual analogue controls will probably find it harder to pick up wii controls, than people who weren't... because they have to fight what they've already learnt before they can learn the new control method.

Yeah, I definitely agree with you. Like I had said before, if you approach the Wii controllers like a mouse+kb or a gamepad, it's going to work against you. You can't approach the Wiimote like a lightgun either. I've played a ton of kb+mouse FPS games on the PC, and I've played a fair amount of console gamepad-based FPSs. In my opinion, these are some of the main differences:

keyboard+mouse: very very good with aiming/tracking/turning accurately, bad for locked-rotation-speed things like turrets (especially slow ones) and not always as comfortable piloting a vehicle as with a gamepad.

gamepad: good with turret-like things, and vehicles. Decent, albeit slow, turning ability. Poor with precise aiming/target tracking -- can be mitigated somewhat with skill, but it's still poor.

wiimote+nunchuk: likely to also be good with turret-like things and piloting vehicles, good with precise aiming/target tracking, poor with turning (at least so far: some Wii games are demonstrating that they can operate with smaller invisible 'turn boxes' which should alleviate this problem somewhat). Your hand is basically the camera analog stick in Wii FPSs, except with far better onscreen positioning/targetting.

 

[plagiarize]

There's a little lightgun-esque minigame in Monkeyball that works perfectly, where you have to shoot targets in numerical order -- there's no FPS-style headmotion. It's actually easier to aim at things than something like Duck Hunt.

Yeah, you're not pointing at the screen, and the Wiimote isn't even remotely a lightgun, but you seriously aren't aware of that.. or at least, I'm not. My brain knows I have to move the Wiimote in a certain way to aim at a particular part of the screen. It's an unconscious thing. The screenspace that your eye sees and the physical space that your hand occupies become associated quickly, and at that point, it's really not a big difference.

i always equate it to aiming using a laser sight rather than an iron sight. aiming feels a lot better than aiming with a mouse or thumbstick in the games i've played. it's just how you handle turning that isn't quite there yet i think.

 

[threeball]

Yeah, I definitely agree with you. Like I had said before, if you approach the Wii controllers like a mouse+kb or a gamepad, it's going to work against you. You can't approach the Wiimote like a lightgun either. I've played a ton of kb+mouse FPS games on the PC, and I've played a fair amount of console gamepad-based FPSs. In my opinion, these are some of the main differences:

keyboard+mouse: very very good with aiming/tracking/turning accurately, bad for locked-rotation-speed things like turrets (especially slow ones) and not always as comfortable piloting a vehicle as with a gamepad.

gamepad: good with turret-like things, and vehicles. Decent, albeit slow, turning ability. Poor with precise aiming/target tracking -- can be mitigated somewhat with skill, but it's still poor.

wiimote+nunchuk: likely to also be good with turret-like things and piloting vehicles, good with precise aiming/target tracking, poor with turning (at least so far: some Wii games are demonstrating that they can operate with smaller invisible 'turn boxes' which should alleviate this problem somewhat). Your hand is basically the camera analog stick in Wii FPSs, except with far better onscreen positioning/targetting.

I have put many hours into Counter-Strike and TFC on the PC(probably over 2,000) and I can safely say that the Wii controls are just as easy to use. Turning in Wii FPS games isn't a problem because you can tell the game was designed to where quick turning isn't necessary, and I am sure some developer is going to get it down. The Wii controls actually has its advantages over Mouse/KB controls in my opinion, such as the button layout.

I still can't see why people find the Wii FPS controls a challenge. I picked it up and played it with ease from the get-go.

 

[PoliceCop]

but I just did'nt like the story a whole lot

Yeah I hear ya, a little part of me dies everytime the Allies win World War II.

 

[plagiarize]

Yeah I hear ya, a little part of me dies everytime the Allies win World War II.

actually, on a serious note it's one of the reasons i don't like world war 2 games. it's not like they can have any major twists or surprise endings.

 

[PoliceCop]

Sure you could, your battalion could mutiny or go crazy or some shit. Someone could turn out to be a nazi spy. The reason a legitimate story has never been put into a WWII game is that the genre is strictly by the numbers with absolutely no deviation. Someone could make a great drama set in WWII times, it just won't ever happen.

 

[Ranger X]

Preface: I spent 7 hours in the cold with 32 people who thought National Treasure was awesome so I could get a Wii. Don't give me any trolling bullshit - these are legitimate criticisms...

yada yada yada?

- The hardware is not to blame but the software.
- FPS won't control better on the Wii. Just equal or worse.
- Since this controller is a big change from what we are used to, the player need a time to adapt.
- Devs needs a time of adaption to make things right it seems. (thought its not our problem here)
- You're playing a bad game.

 

[AdmiralViscen]

I'm having a great time with CoD3Wii, after a decently long learning curve. I think it works great. If a rushed game can do this, I have high hopes for a real FPS later on (Red Steel isn't one, sorry guys). I really didn't run across any of the OP's complaints, even in the first hour or so.

I always found CoD2's controls to be awkward, but I really like them on the Wiimote. Something about using A to look down your sight and B to fire just really works for me.

 

[Jammy]

I rented this game a couple of days ago and my roommate is actually playing it this very moment. He only has a couple of missions left and has outright said he wouldn't be playing this game had it not been for the Wii controls.

Anyhow, tinker with the sensitivity in the Options menu. Also, if you want to keep your crosshair in the middle of the screen always, turn off the thing called Dynamic Aim.

I have found myself able to pick off multiple enemies in a row very quickly with the Wii controller. I don't think I'd ever be able to do it that fast on a regular controller.

 

[Particle Physicist]

..

 

[basik]

I rented this game and plan to buy it... it does have a learning curve and you may need to tweak the control sensitivity when you start.

I lowered the 'horizontal' sensitivity when I first started and that made turning much smoother, I found 'dynamic' aim to be far better than the other 'camera locked on crossshair' mode.... hard to explain for those who havent tried it but dynamic gives you a bit of room to aim before it starts turning. After a couple hours I was bunny hopping and circle straffing and I liked it, although doing that usually leads to a quick death in cod3 because the germans are a bunch of campers who always snipe + throw grenades.

I like this much better then dual analgoue controls... looking forward to online fps play with it. Oh and I always played with my hands on my lap/knees. I sit kind of close to the TV so maybe you need to change where you are sittting so you dont have to hold your hands in the air.

The bad: close combat struggling looks cool in videos, playing it is just broken. I gave up trying to figure it out and just swing around randomly hoping to win. Luckily these seem to always happen right after a save point so you can quickly keeep trying again till you win. Some of the other action points are broken tooo like trying to pull the pin out of a c4 charge I had to just pulll randomly till it did it. Rowing the boat worked fine no problems there.

For me the good fps play outweighs a few bad minigames.

 

[unifin]

I rented this game a couple of days ago and my roommate is actually playing it this very moment. He only has a couple of missions left and has outright said he wouldn't be playing this game had it not been for the Wii controls.

Anyhow, tinker with the sensitivity in the Options menu. Also, if you want to keep your crosshair in the middle of the screen always, turn off the thing called Dynamic Aim.

I have found myself able to pick off multiple enemies in a row very quickly with the Wii controller. I don't think I'd ever be able to do it that fast on a regular controller.

This option exists... and works? When did this happen?

How does the locked cursor compare to the "dynamic" one, guys?

 

[Avutta1978]

turn the dynamic aiming off in the options it does help. truct me it centers the reticle like pc.

 

[basik]

This option exists... and works? When did this happen?

How does the locked cursor compare to the "dynamic" one, guys?

I thought the camera lock on would be best but after trying it I prefer the dynamic. Its hard to explain without watching video but I was able to bunny hop and circle straff with dynamic and I loved it. Takes some getting used to but before I returned the rental I was using the 1 shot before reload rifle to twitch shoot and pick off germans and I liked using it over the spray & pray machine guns because it took more skill.

 

[Testicular Sound Express]

/dies

i lol'd :lol :lol

 

[unifin]

I thought the camera lock on would be best but after trying it I prefer the dynamic. Its hard to explain without watching video but I was able to bunny hop and circle straff with dynamic and I loved it. Takes some getting used to but before I returned the rental I was using the 1 shot before reload rifle to twitch shoot and pick off germans and I liked using it over the spray & pray machine guns because it took more skill.

Heh - welcome to the world of competitive COD.

All PC competitive play (in COD 1, at least) uses bolt-action rifles. Hell, on most maps, a good rifler can outscore even the craziest sprayer (at least in terms of ratio, if not raw frag #)

I shudder to think of how many hours I wasted on that game.

 

[Pimpbaa]

not convinced it'd be any good for lightgun games. Well, no better than a mouse and they aren't good. you can't actually aim at the screen, you have to move the cursor relative to where you are currently pointing.

It'd be no worse than a lot of arcade gun games, where the gun is mounted on a swivel (basically like a big more sensitive analog stick) and have crosshairs on screen. That's what the terminator 2 arcade game used, and is my favorite arcade gun game.

 

[imastalker co.]

the controls can be pretty good when you adjust the sensitivity, but everything else about it sucks.

the game itself is just no good, and mindless (and not in the good way).

this game is on par with all the other shitty console Call of Dutys that were console exclusive.

Treyarch just doesnt have what it takes. looks like their best days consisted of porting THPS to Dreamcast.

 

[TAJ]

>>>- The hardware is not to blame but the software.
- FPS won't control better on the Wii. Just equal or worse. <<<

Analyzing...
DOES NOT COMPUTE...
DOES NOT COMPUTE...

 

[dextran]

COD was one of the 1st Wii games i played, and I was also very disapointed. I thought it was a mess. It doesn't help that I really don't like COD anyway.
I have started to play Red Steel, and although it's not a very good game, it does give me more confidence that controls are developer's reponsibility, not Nintendo.
The Wii launch games vary all over the place. Just try comparing ExcitTruck's turning sensitivity to Cars. The difference is extrodinary - and games like Monkey Ball prove that the Wii mote is sensitive enough to do whatever you like.

 

[Rushmore]

That wasn't hyperbole, it was sarcasm; it would have been hyperbole if he was trying to make a point about Nintendo being a bad company.

I'm aware of that. I'm suggesting that it could have been mistaken for hyperbole (as several in the thread did).

 

[basik]

I cant help but get the feeling that some of you either didnt tweak the controls in the options menu or you just suck at FPS games if you think this game controls bad.

Some of the mini-games are broken but the fps gameplay itself was great for me and I consider myself to be a mouse/kb pc fps expert so I was trying to do things I could do on pc and was able to pull off bunny hopping while circle straffing...

I'm hoping for a sequal with online play.

 

[Shard]

Preface: I spent 7 hours in the cold with 32 people who thought National Treasure was awesome so I could get a Wii. Don't give me any trolling bullshit - these are legitimate criticisms.

Body: Nintendo is the worst company in the world and whoever developed the Wiimote needs to be shot to death. Anyway, what's the consensus on Call of Duty 3's controls? I just played the first level and it's a mix of exploring the potential of using the remote for FPSs and profound disappointment. Using the remote in this game feels like using a mouse that's constantly going to the corner of your mousepad and you're constantly moving the thing around to get it recentered. If I don't hold my wrist out in the air and totally concentrate on keeping the reticule as close to the center of the screen as I can, my gun goes all the way to the side of the screen and I have to adjust it. It's like I can't move my wrist at all if I want to actually aim my gun.

Turning and aiming should be a natural movement - not something you need to devote any serious concentration to. Interacting with the game needs to be seemless, and not something you have to focus on, no matter how cool the idea is. If my wrist twitches during intense combat or I move my arm involuntarily, I could be completely ****ed. I wonder how much room there is for player error in such a control mechanism.

It's making me skeptical as to whether the remote was worth the orgasm people had when they imagined how cool FPSs could be ("The remote is your gun!") with it. This game, so far, has been a nonstop exercise in frustration. Maybe it's just shoddy developing though. I can't tell to what extent either option is true.

Am I nuts? Is anybody else having this problem, or is there just a learning curve given the new control mechanism? Or do I just suck and I'm playing it wrong?

You left out the conclusion on you paper, I am afraid you are going to have to be docked 10 points.

 

[pol's voice]

Even if the wii remote wasn't ideal or good for FPS games, there's no way dual analog control could be in any way superior.

Dual analog control is SO terrible, especially compared to mouse control. I can't even play console FPS games because I feel so handicapped compared to the PC.

It's like trying to play a KoF/Street Fighter game on the Gamecube's D-Pad. In other words...not so good.

 

[Pud]

It may not be perfected yet, and it definately isn't superior to keyboard+mouse, but it so easily mops the floor with dual-analogue even with these rushed launch titles. It's funny watching people slag on Red Steel, for instance, due to a slow turning speed. But even the original developer interviews for that game have admitted that Red steel turns about twice as fast as dual-analogue. CoD3 has more sensitive/responsive controls in comparison, but looks shittier (since it's a direct port of the PS2/XBox version of course, visually).

It really just takes getting used to. For myself, it took about an hour with each game to properly adjust. My little brother, after a few hours with each title, STILL hasn't adjusted properly to it. A buddy of mine took a grand total of 30 minutes to be pulling off headshots in CoD3, proclaiming "holy crap this is so much better than the sticks!" and my girlfriend gave up after 20 minutes of struggling (she's not a shooter fan, anyway).

Yeah, it's all anecdotal evidence, but the point of the matter is that it's different for everyone. There is a learning curve, for us as well as the developers. Different strokes for different folks, in terms of how long it will take to come to grips with the controls. One thing is for certain, though, claming that auto-aim/hit-box ridden analog sticks are superior is flat out wrong. You may be more used to that scheme, but its precision is so poor in comparison to kb+m/wii-mote that it's hard to go back to controlling first-person games with it.

 

[TAJ]

>>>Even if the wii remote wasn't ideal or good for FPS games, there's no way dual analog control could be in any way superior.<<<

So, interpretting you shifting in your seat as controller input is a feature, and not an unfortunate side-effect? Gotcha.

 

[Ranger X]

>>>- The hardware is not to blame but the software.
- FPS won't control better on the Wii. Just equal or worse. <<<

Analyzing...
DOES NOT COMPUTE...
DOES NOT COMPUTE...

LOL i need to explain this for real?

The hardware is not to blame because the Wiimote is perfectly functional for what it is supposed to do. Gyros work perfect fine and the pointing is absolutely perfect without any kind of delay.

Now it doesn't mean that all kinds of games will play better just because this new controller is doing something new.

So, do you compute a little now? ;P

 

[eudaemonic]

Yeah I hear ya, a little part of me dies everytime the Allies win World War II.

:lol

*hearts sarcasm*

Spoiler

(unless it's not... 0_0)

 

[AndoCalrissian]

I've only played a little of COD3 so far, but I actually really like the controls. I think they work pretty well (except for the grappling sections... holy shit those are bad), and make the game a much more intense experience. Red Steel's controls are absolute shit though.

 

[TAJ]

This...

- FPS won't control better on the Wii. Just equal or worse.

... made it sound like you thought that FPS controls with the Wiimote would never get better than those in Red Steel and CoD3. Though I guess in a different context, it might be closer to saying, "FPS won't control better than keyboard/mouse on Wiimote, just equal or worse."

 

[Corwood Rep]

Update:

The game doesn't suck as much as I thought. I turned the controller sensitivity all the way down and turned off dynamic aim (which was causing some of the epileptic fit the game had whenever I tried to aim at a guy).

I still need to get used to it, and the learning curve is pretty huge, but I'm digging it a little more now. I see the potential in this control scheme a lot more.

 

[Ranger X]

This...

- FPS won't control better on the Wii. Just equal or worse.

... made it sound like you thought that FPS controls with the Wiimote would never get better than those in Red Steel and CoD3. Though I guess in a different context, it might be closer to saying, "FPS won't control better than keyboard/mouse on Wiimote, just equal or worse."

My working probably isn't perfect but i mean that the way i see and understand the Wiimote and it's possibilities, i doubt there will be a real edge over dual analog style. Keyboard and mouse combo will stay on top obviously.
I'm waiting for better games with better controls to MAYBE re-ajust my thoughs. Right now i feel Red Steel AND COD3 both are missing the point in making FPS controls with the Wii.
I'm waiting for a game that is designed around the movement being the movement you actually do with the right joystick on a "normal" controller.
This control would use a invisible pointer and the player get a fixed reticule in the middle of the screen.

 

[basik]

Update:

The game doesn't suck as much as I thought. I turned the controller sensitivity all the way down and turned off dynamic aim (which was causing some of the epileptic fit the game had whenever I tried to aim at a guy).

I still need to get used to it, and the learning curve is pretty huge, but I'm digging it a little more now. I see the potential in this control scheme a lot more.

Oh yea there is also another option menu from the main title screen, go into the player profiles screen to get to it. From there you can change another setting that makes your pointer slow down when you aim at a enemy, off or on, I set it to off, I was wondering WTF was making me go slow sometimes, hated that.

 

[unifin]

My working probably isn't perfect but i mean that the way i see and understand the Wiimote and it's possibilities, i doubt there will be a real edge over dual analog style. Keyboard and mouse combo will stay on top obviously.
I'm waiting for better games with better controls to MAYBE re-ajust my thoughs. Right now i feel Red Steel AND COD3 both are missing the point in making FPS controls with the Wii.
I'm waiting for a game that is designed around the movement being the movement you actually do with the right joystick on a "normal" controller.
This control would use a invisible pointer and the player get a fixed reticule in the middle of the screen.

.

There's undoubtedly an edge over dual analog from a precision standpoint, but the setup is still inferior to a keyboard and mouse due to the turning issue.

 

[threeball]

My working probably isn't perfect but i mean that the way i see and understand the Wiimote and it's possibilities, i doubt there will be a real edge over dual analog style. Keyboard and mouse combo will stay on top obviously.
I'm waiting for better games with better controls to MAYBE re-ajust my thoughs. Right now i feel Red Steel AND COD3 both are missing the point in making FPS controls with the Wii.
I'm waiting for a game that is designed around the movement being the movement you actually do with the right joystick on a "normal" controller.
This control would use a invisible pointer and the player get a fixed reticule in the middle of the screen.

Wii Remote is far superior and has every single advantage over Dual Analog.

It took me no time to get used to the Wii FPS controls with COD3. No time at all. I got the hang of it instantly. People must just flat out suck at FPS games.

Fixed reticule isn't the right choice for Wii FPS games in my opinion. Dynamic aim is so much better and realistic. And it allows for more variety of gameplay options, enemy placement, AI cycles and the like.

 

[Ranger X]

Don't point a gun at me