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[XiaNaphryz]

I wanted to try this myself because I was fairly certain that as mentioned a few times, once you download a free app after entering your password, you do NOT need to enter again to download another free app, even a few minutes later. I just downloaded Mega Run for free without entering my password (becasue I downloaded another free game before that) and 30 seconds later tried an in app purchase. It prompted me for the password. So this guy definitely gave the kid the password to download the app and then again to confirm the purchases.

But did you specifically set up your settings to prompt each time? I know I did for my iPad, and a couple people have mentioned it's not setup like that by default.

 

[Minsc]

Not by default, as Minsc mentioned a couple posts after.

Right, but remember that's true only if it falls within the set amount of time from you last entering your password, if that wasn't clear (in my example of the newly downloaded app, I literally meant newly downloaded - hence you recently entered the password to download the app), and this was eluded too from my earlier post as well. I'm not sure your normal IAP Smurfville/etc type game with the 5 minute tutorial would really allow for this, as by the time you've finished the tutorial too much time might have passed when you need more premium currency, especially in the amount of $1000s of dollars where one would need to make a dozen or more repeat purchases. It's possible, but seems unlikely.

I wanted to try this myself because I was fairly certain that as mentioned a few times, once you download a free app after entering your password, you do NOT need to enter again to download another free app, even a few minutes later. I just downloaded Mega Run for free without entering my password (becasue I downloaded another free game before that) and 30 seconds later tried an in app purchase. It prompted me for the password. So this guy definitely gave the kid the password to download the app and then again to confirm the purchases.

I already tried it today, and didn't get prompted to re-enter my password when purchasing the IAP, it just went through. Perhaps you have something enabled to prevent that from happening, but I just have the default restrictions off settings.

This explains all the steps to follow if one wanted to turn off IAP, while it's not a ton, it's certainly more than one could expect someone who isn't used to doing anything like that to figure out.

Edit: I suppose it's possible since I've had my phone prior to OS 4.3, perhaps the settings are opt-in, while a new customer starting at OS 4.3 or above would be opt-out?

 

[BolognaSoup]

I already tried it today, and didn't get prompted to re-enter my password when purchasing the IAP, it just went through. Perhaps you have something enabled to prevent that from happening, but I just have the default restrictions off settings.

This explains all the steps to follow if one wanted to turn off IAP, while it's not a ton, it's certainly more than one could expect someone who isn't used to doing anything like that to figure out.

Edit: I suppose it's possible since I've had my phone prior to OS 4.3, perhaps the settings are opt-in, while a new customer starting at OS 4.3 or above would be opt-out?

I had definitely never even accessed that Restrictions screen until just now when I looked at that link. So they are disabled/grayed out and the in-app purchase slider is set to On.

 

[bedlamite]

Apple also sends you an email which serves as a receipt of purchase every time you make a purchase. The parents must have gotten a shit ton of email receipts considering the kid bought nearly 2000 pounds worth of 1 piece of DLC. Figuring out how password protection works on an iOS device is one thing, apparently checking email is also just too hard for these parents.

 

[Zafir]

Parents fault, however they should have still been given a refund. It's stupid you can't get refunds on digital products, yet we can freely return unwanted real life goods.

Apple also sends you an email which serves as a receipt of purchase every time you make a purchase. The parents must have gotten a shit ton of email receipts considering the kid bought nearly 2000 pounds worth of 1 piece of DLC. Figuring out how password protection works on an iOS device is one thing, apparently checking email is also just too hard for these parents.

Not true, there is usually a delay before you get a receipt from iTunes because they delay transactions and then group them into one to minimise money lost from transaction fees.

 

[Zafir]

Sorry double post.

 

[goldsoundz]

Apple also sends you an email which serves as a receipt of purchase every time you make a purchase. The parents must have gotten a shit ton of email receipts considering the kid bought nearly 2000 pounds worth of 1 piece of DLC. Figuring out how password protection works on an iOS device is one thing, apparently checking email is also just too hard for these parents.

My Apple Store receipts always come two to three days after any purchase I make. Sometimes even close to a week.

 

[hteng]

hahaha there are no such things as free games

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Blah blah blah, parents should've known what their kid was playing, blah blah blah. That's all well and good, and I agree that parents shouldn't just hand their kids iPads and passcodes and act super surprised when things like this happen. It's hard to make people be educated consumers, though.

But to all you "naw man, fuck the parents, microtransactions are cool beans even if they prey on uneducated consumers" folks, I hope you enjoy sleeping in the bed you're making.

 

[ArtHands]

Parents fault, however they should have still been given a refund. It's stupid you can't get refunds on digital products, yet we can freely return unwanted real life goods.



Not true, there is usually a delay before you get a receipt from iTunes because they delay transactions and then group them into one to minimise money lost from transaction fees.

How long is the delay? Couple of hours or more than a day?

 

[DonMigs85]

So did he get to keep all the purchased stuff even after they were refunded?

 

[Metal Gear?!]

So did he get to keep all the purchased stuff even after they were refunded?

No.

Well minus the consumables already used, but come on.

Apple also sends you an email which serves as a receipt of purchase every time you make a purchase. The parents must have gotten a shit ton of email receipts considering the kid bought nearly 2000 pounds worth of 1 piece of DLC. Figuring out how password protection works on an iOS device is one thing, apparently checking email is also just too hard for these parents.

Bulk purchases.

hahaha there are no such things as free games

http://cactusquid.blogspot.com/2011/10/keyboard-drumset-fucking-werewolf.html

Wait, really? You think they should get their money back because they didn't bother learning about the device they purchased?

They are basically "returning" their purchases for a refund, which is a consumer right. But it takes media attention to force companies to honor it.

 

[Dash Kappei]

Wow that is a lot of money.
I never linked my iTunes account to a credit card, and I'm not a fan of linking cards to any service at all to avoid accidental/impulse purchases.

You can actually just turn-off in-app purchases to ensure this never happen.

Apple also sends you an email which serves as a receipt of purchase every time you make a purchase. The parents must have gotten a shit ton of email receipts considering the kid bought nearly 2000 pounds worth of 1 piece of DLC. Figuring out how password protection works on an iOS device is one thing, apparently checking email is also just too hard for these parents.

It's not an instant e-mail, it can take up to a week to get one.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

But did you specifically set up your settings to prompt each time? I know I did for my iPad, and a couple people have mentioned it's not setup like that by default.

Just checked my phone and my GF's phone...

I think it is the default. It's the default setting on mine, and I never enabled it.

I think if you turn off the "ask me every time" prompt for the iTunes Music Store, it might default the other way for in-app purchases.

I arrive at this theory because on my GF's phone, she doesn't get the prompt. She doesn't think she disabled it in the App Store, but she knows she did disable the prompt in the Music Store. That's the only difference between our phones.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

You can actually just turn-off in-app purchases to ensure this never happen.



It's not an instant e-mail, it can take up to a week to get one.

Read the original story. The parents do claim they got "loads" of emails the next day.

Mum Sharon knew nothing about his spending spree until she saw a batch of emails from iTunes the following day listing what he had bought.


...


“We had lots of visitors in the house and were both a little preoccupied. I woke up Monday morning and looked at my emails and had loads from iTunes.

Which doesn't make sense, because the headline of the story claims "Boy, 5, used parents’ iPad to play a free game but ran up a £1,700 bill… in just TEN minutes."

In my experience, if you purchase a bunch of stuff, even a few hours apart, you only get one email. That's why the claim of the kid racking up all these charges in ten minutes baffles me.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

I side with apple in this. Parents need to be much more aware of what they are letting their children do.

Apple did right by giving a refund but honestly if its part of the TOS that they are not obliged to then its as simple as that. I understand people are all about the consumer and saying he has a right to return purchased items but that shit simply does not fly in the real world. UK laws about purchasing and consumer rights are (as far as I am aware) better for the consumer than US law but even in the UK Returning goods is a very muddy subject.

You have the right to return items to a store if they are unwanted only if they store policy dictates it. Now this being a digital sale some other elements like Long distance selling regulations may come into play however this is simply a case of an unwanted item rather than a faulty item and Apple have no obligation to refund the customer. Its down to the adults to keep check of what their child is doing not apple.

Regardless of Interface or Prompts or Password features parents should be entirely informed about what they are letting their child do. If you are too lazy to take 2 minuets to turn off In App purchases or check if the app has in app purchases and would rather just key in the password so the child keeps quiet for another hour then they deserve the consequences of that action.

 

[Denzel Washington]

Parents fault
Should disable in game purchases

 

[Vitacat]

I side with apple in this. Parents need to be much more aware of what they are letting their children do.

Apple did right by giving a refund but honestly if its part of the TOS that they are not obliged to then its as simple as that. I understand people are all about the consumer and saying he has a right to return purchased items but that shit simply does not fly in the real world. UK laws about purchasing and consumer rights are (as far as I am aware) better for the consumer than US law but even in the UK Returning goods is a very muddy subject.

You have the right to return items to a store if they are unwanted only if they store policy dictates it. Now this being a digital sale some other elements like Long distance selling regulations may come into play however this is simply a case of an unwanted item rather than a faulty item and Apple have no obligation to refund the customer. Its down to the adults to keep check of what their child is doing not apple.

Regardless of Interface or Prompts or Password features parents should be entirely informed about what they are letting their child do. If you are too lazy to take 2 minuets to turn off In App purchases or check if the app has in app purchases and would rather just key in the password so the child keeps quiet for another hour then they deserve the consequences of that action.

If a 5 year old somehow managed to run into a store with his dad's credit card and buy a $2000 television, would you (as the store manager) not refund the purchase?

Or would you say "too bad, your kid used a valid credit card and now the TV is yours." Furthermore would you not have something to say to the clerk who actually sold the TV to the 5 year old with the credit card?

I know it's not exactly the same thing, but it's close.

 

[Risette]

If a 5 year old somehow managed to run into a store with his dad's credit card and buy a $2000 television, would you (as the store manager) not refund the purchase?

Or would you say "too bad, your kid used a valid credit card and now the TV is yours." Furthermore would you not have something to say to the clerk who actually sold the TV to the 5 year old with the credit card?

I know it's not exactly the same thing, but it's close.

that wouldn't happen

 

[Dunan]

If a 5 year old somehow managed to run into a store with his dad's credit card and buy a $2000 television, would you (as the store manager) not refund the purchase?

Or would you say "too bad, your kid used a valid credit card and now the TV is yours." Furthermore would you not have something to say to the clerk who actually sold the TV to the 5 year old with the credit card?

I know it's not exactly the same thing, but it's close.

It's not; this situation is even worse than that.

If a store refuses to refund money for a $2000 TV, the parents could very easily sell it on the secondary market and recoup most if not all of their money. They could put the TV on eBay and watch the bids come in. (Maybe include the story about the kid, and how you're punishing him my forcing him to make up the difference between what the TV sells for and what the parents paid for it.

Spoiler

And watch it go viral, and then some joker comes in and bids $2500, saying, "Give the extra $500 to your kid as compensation for the humiliation you're heaping on him."

)

But this can't happen with virtual goods, because the producers don't allow resales or any secondary market. Does that make any sense at all? These "9000 ecstasy bombs" or whatever they are have no physical form; they consist of a few bytes being 9000, rather than 0, in a digital file. They can be changed back to zero with a few keystrokes on the part of Apple or the developer.

If anything, virtual items like this, which can be brought in our out of "existence" at will, should be easier to obtain refunds for than physical goods.

 

[Vhalyar]

If anything, virtual items like this, which can be brought in our out of "existence" at will, should be easier to obtain refunds for than physical goods.

It's so easy to say "refund! refund!"

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how the refund of virtual, consumable items which can give tremendous in-game advantages (and most likely starts getting consumed by the user as soon as purchased, since that's the whole point) should be handled in a way that doesn't fuck the developer and/or open the door to abuse from the players.

Buying 333 bombs and you did not use a single one? Sure, that should be an easy (time limited) refund. Buying 333 bombs and using a hundred because that's what you do with bombs and then asking for a refund? You tell me how that one should work

 

[feint_ruled]

Interesting follow up article on the Guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/appsblog/2013/mar/01/apps-smartphones

Seems like a lot of these scumbags have gravitated towards the £69.99 sweet spot for "best value" consumables.

Interesting how it's worth £69.99 when you go to buy it, but if you want a refund it's suddenly not real so you can't return it.

Lots of sanctimonious types in this thread, alas. People makes mistakes, parents make mistakes. I once went to a concert and there was a kid there, about 15 years old. He had his ears stuffed with cotton wool and his glasses on a rope, all safely wrapped up and sent out into the big bad world by his mummy. To read the people in this thread, this the type of parent everyone who is currently without a kid is going to be, flying in the face of all known human experience.

 

[Dunan]

It's so easy to say "refund! refund!"

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how the refund of virtual, consumable items which can give tremendous in-game advantages (and most likely starts getting consumed by the user as soon as purchased, since that's the whole point) should be handled in a way that doesn't fuck the developer and/or open the door to abuse from the players.

Well, I'm assuming that the parents deleted the game after this incident, so perhaps any claim for a refund could also come with the requirement that any high scores or save files are deleted. A player who is pretending to have bought some item by accident won't be willing to lose those things.

Buying 333 bombs and you did not use a single one? Sure, that should be an easy (time limited) refund. Buying 333 bombs and using a hundred because that's what you do with bombs and then asking for a refund? You tell me how that one should work

You could certainly refund the price in proportion to how much of it was used.

I'd really like to see a total cap on how much can be spent in a freemium game. I'd argue that the absolute maximum should be whatever a disc-based game costs. A disc-based game contains all the content and all the cheats that the game has to offer (digital games have the added disadvantage that they can't be returned or sold), so if dosc-based games cost £50 (or whatever), once you get to £50 in total purchases, you should get any and all bonus items that the game makes available.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I'd really like to see a total cap on how much can be spent in a freemium game. I'd argue that the absolute maximum should be whatever a disc-based game costs. A disc-based game contains all the content and all the cheats that the game has to offer (digital games have the added disadvantage that they can't be returned or sold), so if dosc-based games cost £50 (or whatever), once you get to £50 in total purchases, you should get any and all bonus items that the game makes available.

Set by who? The government? Apple and Google? Why would they set this arbitrary "Cost of a disc based game!" limit when they don't even deal in disc based games, that standard means nothing to them or their marketplace. How about companies that create a product can charge whatever the fuck they please and we let the consumers decide if it's too much. If these F2P with expensive add ons are successful, it's not because every once in a while a kid accidentally downloads a bunch of shit on his parent's dime. It's because, for whatever reason, fans of these games don't mind dumping a bunch of money into them. It's not for you to decide what is exorbitant when it's their money.

 

[poppabk]

It's so easy to say "refund! refund!"

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how the refund of virtual, consumable items which can give tremendous in-game advantages (and most likely starts getting consumed by the user as soon as purchased, since that's the whole point) should be handled in a way that doesn't fuck the developer and/or open the door to abuse from the players.

Buying 333 bombs and you did not use a single one? Sure, that should be an easy (time limited) refund. Buying 333 bombs and using a hundred because that's what you do with bombs and then asking for a refund? You tell me how that one should work

The fact that they can't be refunded puts an onus on the apple as the gatekeeper to closely monitor and regulate these transactions. You shouldn't be able to purchase $2500 worth of nothing in a day without having to jump through hoops to do so. Is there any legitimate way that this type of purchase could be made by anyone of sound mind? If Apple, Google and whoever don't figure out a way to regulate this stuff then eventually someone else will step in and regulate it for them, which will be bad for everyone.

 

[Duster]

This was actually on the front page of The Daily Mail today.

The parents must have made a fair amount of money selling this story.

 

[Dunan]

Set by who? The government? Apple and Google? Why would they set this arbitrary "Cost of a disc based game!" limit when they don't even deal in disc based games, that standard means nothing to them or their marketplace. How about companies that create a product can charge whatever the fuck they please and we let the consumers decide if it's too much. If these F2P with expensive add ons are successful, it's not because every once in a while a kid accidentally downloads a bunch of shit on his parent's dime. It's because, for whatever reason, fans of these games don't mind dumping a bunch of money into them. It's not for you to decide what is exorbitant when it's their money.

The producer of the game could set it, just as long as it's visible to the buyer. "Free to play; additional paid content from 50p to £60" or whatever. But once you've maxed out the paid content total, you get all the paid content, just like anyone who owns a traditionally-priced physical game has all the cheats right on the disc. What these developers are doing is having people pay again and again for something that incurs no marginal costs. It's disgusting. It's as if the Konami code, instead of being on the cartridge, usable as many times as the player wants, instead charges the user a dollar (or £69.99) per use when the whole game shouldn't even cost that much.

 

[Dark Octave]

What? That's the standard sign for British pounds. The guy who posted them clearly uses British Itunes at the very least. That's like saying who would associate a squiggly s ($) with money anyway.

I was joking.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

The producer of the game could set it, just as long as it's visible to the buyer. "Free to play; additional paid content from 50p to £60" or whatever. But once you've maxed out the paid content total, you get all the paid content, just like anyone who owns a traditionally-priced physical game has all the cheats right on the disc. What these developers are doing is having people pay again and again for something that incurs no marginal costs. It's disgusting. It's as if the Konami code, instead of being on the cartridge, usable as many times as the player wants, instead charges the user a dollar (or £69.99) per use when the whole game shouldn't even cost that much.

Again it's disgusting and stupid to you and I, but obviously there is a market for it otherwise these games wouldn't be popping up so often. If there are people that find value in pumping money into their games like that, and a developer wants to create a product that caters to that market, more power to them. I hate this idea that these games are taking advantage of people. People spend money on dumb shit. They do it. We all probably do it relative to someone else's opinion.

 

[DangerousDave]

I feel bad for the guy that made the game. Is a individual that, looking all his portfolio, is quite bad doing games. I don't think that he's doing too much money. Probably, when he saw that he gained 1700 pounds in a single day, he did a party, only to realise that Apple took his money away. He's the real victim of this.