Support NeoGAF

[ColtraineGF]

Video is eye-poppingly awesome, and I won't comment on the whole Sonic 4 thing, but I do agree with what some people have said - that to turn this "57 second effort" into an actual game, on the same level of quality as the video, is not easy, or cheap.

Nevertheless, whoever made it, please do more, if you have the time :O

 

[Catalix]

I never said the video couldn't be removed from YouTube. YouTube will remove anything at the drop of a hat if someone makes a copyright claim, regardless of it's validity.

The point I was answering was as to why Sega would take this guy to court.

Even if this were playable, I doubt SEGA would take drastic legal action against its existence; a cease and desist at most, depending on level of quality.

They even promoted other Sonic fan game projects on their own blog ffs. They just have an all around more relaxed attitude about these things, compared to other companies.

Spoiler

It's because of the constant guilt they feel.

 

[DanteFox]

so that's what a 3d sidescrolling sonic should play like.

 

[sullytao]

This video serves as a reminder to a time long past .

We miss you awesome 2d sonic. We are sorry that we did not show the act of kindness when you got that crippling disease all those years ago, and now you are in a drug enduced coma only occasionally waking to the familier agony of pain to see your still body being molested by furry woodland creatures with cash like you were a woman in the kill bill hospital.

 

[Dexa]

gimme now

 

[Baron Aloha]

Just watched the video and yeah, Sega's bad and should feel bad and stuff.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

www.devry.edu

:lol

We JUST had a thread on how worthless those schools are (along with Westwood, Art Institutes, etc.)

 

[Imm0rt4l]

No.

Yes.

 

[MIMIC]

I never said the video couldn't be removed from YouTube. YouTube will remove anything at the drop of a hat if someone makes a copyright claim, regardless of it's validity.

The point I was answering was as to why Sega would take this guy to court.

Just so you know, derivative work doesn't qualify as fair usage and thus it infringes and Sega could take them to court if they wanted to.

If it was transformative, then it would be fair usage. Like, if the video set out to show that Sega's concept of Sonic games are inferior to the concepts of hardcore fans (and that the superior concepts are possible), then it would be fair usage.

 

[Sega]

Sorry I didn't mean to sound bitter.

Not you, Sega!

Sorry I didn't mean to sound bitter.

 

[Gattsu25]

Sonic the Hedgehog 4

 

[Diablohead]

Just a note, that 50 seconds of footage had more "momentium based gameplay" in it then an entire act from sonic 4.

Yeah.

 

[Mama Robotnik]

He did say "better" without actually speaking of the fan works absolute quality

Thanks for pointing this out. Yes the works I linked to are not perfect by any means, but they're better than Sega's mind-bogglingly awful efforts.

and sega still has the nerves to say it's the fans fault.

Yep by far the most arrogant, self-deluded piece of bile they've ever said.

Agreed on all of those bar SRB2. That game was shit. Overhyped. Overrated. Successful from being the first 3D Sonic "fangame". Played like a DOS game from 1989. SRB2 versus this [the last time Sonic Team gave a damn]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG3sFkLuQCU. Come on man. Fangames have made a decent shot at equalling the 2D games but no 3D game has ever come close.

SRB2 is certainly flawed, but I genuinely like it more than any and all of Sega's repugnant 3D efforts. I like the exploration and freeform nature of it, though I can see how some wouldn't.

Uhh, just because fans try to do it, that doesn't mean it is anything worthwhile.

Those two examples in particular are complete trash.

The music in the Bridge Zone video is godly and a brilliant reimagining of the 8-bit midi. Its building on that musical legacy in a way Sega is utterly unable to. Its a shame you didn't like it.

Now now Mama, don't be hatin' on SEGA completely.

Sega is Sonic. Its their flagship, he's their mascot and starred in some of the most legendary games ever made. The little blue bastard competed against Mario for gods sake!

What Sega have reduced his games to over the last decade blinds me to nearly all good that they do. All they have to do is make a decent fucking game, it not that hard!

I want a fucking congressional hearing over this shit. Sega’s big wigs need to answer for why they’re such fuck ups.

Crimes against gaming. I want to see Sonic Team forced to face their crimes, and then sentenced to play them as punishment.

 

[WillyFive]

I love SRB2's exploration and stages. That's how I want 3D Sonic games to be. Speed is nothing if you are forced to move in a straight line.

 

[MNC]

Sorry I didn't mean to sound bitter.

:lol :lol

 

[Fun Factor]

Looks great, and it shows just how fucking pathetic Sonic Team is....

DIMPS is making Sonic 4....

 

[Iceman]

We should have had something like this 10 years ago.

They obviously got caught up in the movement of making large explorable worlds.. I think Super Mario 64 certainly had something to do with it.

I would still kill* for a remake of the original genny Sonics (and NiGHTS while you're at it) using this kind of 3D.

*Or pay. I guess I could also pay.

 

[Catalix]

I love SRB2's exploration and stages. That's how I want 3D Sonic games to be. Speed is nothing if you are forced to move in a straight line.

Preach.

'Colors' actually looks like a pretty good game so far. Surreal, colorful aesthetics and non-offensive gameplay gimmicks. Could be the best 3D Sonic yet.

But the racetrack level design they've been tinkering with for the past decade is rather limited in scope. I just think Sonic games could be so much more.

 

[Elfforkusu]

Just so you know, derivative work doesn't qualify as fair usage and thus it infringes and Sega could take them to court if they wanted to.

If it was transformative, then it would be fair usage. Like, if the video set out to show that Sega's concept of Sonic games are inferior to the concepts of hardcore fans (and that the superior concepts are possible), then it would be fair usage.

So you're saying it's fair usage.

Not sure what comment I could make at the video, except maybe so awesome and yet so sad that we will never get a game like this as long as Sega owns the IP. So maybe forever.

We should have had something like this 10 years ago.

They obviously got caught up in the movement of making large explorable worlds.. I think Super Mario 64 certainly had something to do with it.

I would still kill* for a remake of the original genny Sonics (and NiGHTS while you're at it) using this kind of 3D.

*Or pay. I guess I could also pay.

It's always bothered me that Sega didn't push the issue on that one. The final levels of S&K (Lava Reef, Sky Sanctuary, Death Egg) were brilliant -- the best (I'd argue) in any of the class Sonic games. In retrospect, it's as if, finally having turned making 2D Sonic games into a machine, Sonic Team was stretching, ready to extend the concept further and raise it to unseen heights. Ready to push the genre forward.

And then the team never makes a 2D Sonic game again. The band may have the same name now, but all the members are gone.

 

[TreIII]

DIMPS is making Sonic 4....

Point still stands. :lol

But seriously, it does. Dimps are making the game, but it's Sega and Sonic Team signing their checks and telling them how to make the game. And this is from the same company that helped bring Capcom's Street Fighter 4 to life, for crying out loud, and that should speak directly to the kind of potential they possess as programmers.

However, the difference that separates Capcom's SF4 and Sega's Sonic 4 really proves the difference between the two companies. Capcom did more to respond to what its fans wanted, and answered accordingly. SSF4, as a result, stands as a worthy game in its own right, as well as one that can stand toe to toe with other honored games in that series.

True, Sonic 4 is not out yet, but it's plain to see even from this outset that the events leading up to and including Sonic 4's release have been anything BUT what Sega probably wished to happen. :lol

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

I wonder if anybody would be willing to make something like this in Sonic GDK when it's done. Preview 3 was just posted yesterday, and it supports 2.5D.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIOC565L18Y

 

[Gravijah]

hoooooooly shit at the sonic model. so bad.

 

[TheOGB]

dem arms, man

I see you activated Dimps mode at 6:00

 

[MNC]

Well I think it's cute! So there.

Edit: It's the animations that's sucky.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Well I think it's cute! So there.

Edit: It's the animations that's sucky.

Well, this is the first release with an actual Sonic model in it. The previous release just had the UDK default robot running around.

I'm sure the creator would be quick to say that it's not done yet

 

[Catalix]

I wonder if anybody would be willing to make something like this in Sonic GDK when it's done. Preview 3 was just posted yesterday, and it supports 2.5D.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIOC565L18Y

I don't know much about the Sonic fan game community, but I definitely like what I see here! It's a work-in-progress, for sure, but I get the gist of the creators' vision. They're definitely on the right track.

Had no idea this engine was in the works, so thanks for the link. Will keep track.

And whoever it was that said a "true" 3D Sonic game's levels would resemble a wide open skate park (rather than a one-way roller coaster) was spot-on. That engine's test environment, all by itself, seems fun as hell to run around and explore. Using those physics, I could easily imagine those environmental assets being strung together to create a challenging, cohesive game level.

 

[Ghost Leviathan]

Update. The guy says he's overwhelmed by the response and thinking of doing another video.

Robert Medina, the creator of the Mushroom Hill video reimagination that swept the gaming world earlier this week, spoke out for the first time on his work.

Speaking to Playstation LifeStyle, he’s quite surprised the piece has received this much attention thus far.

“I really am surprised by the response from this video,” Medina said. “Had I known it would get this much attention, I’d probably have put some more time into finishing the level, and polishing the animation and effects further. This was actually just a quick project I did for fun over a couple of weeks so I could see how well a classic style Sonic game would adapt to 2.5D/3D graphics. It wasn’t meant to draw any comparisons to Sonic 4, and wasn’t intended to make any major design changes to the game or introduce any new elements, hence the fact it sticks quite close to the original design of the level and Sonic.”

Medina explained how the video was for him neither “lengthy” nor “complex” to create and was not done in realtime. Still, Medina theorizes current generation consoles could get “95% of the way there” in terms of a matchup. But as it stands now, Medina won’t be attempting that officially for Sega or anyone else; he affirmed no one from the company has reached out.

“I really don’t expect to, since it only showcases graphics, and doesn’t show a lot of new ideas aside from that,” Medina said. “The video was posted on Sega’s blog, so I know someone has seen it, but I don’t expect anything to come of that.”

Medina also says he’ll consider making another piece in the future–though it, like this, won’t have any other value than eye candy.

“If interest keeps up, I may create another video, maybe even create a video showcasing some completely new ideas rather than remaking old ones, but since this is only for fun, I’m not sure if I will at this stage,” Medina said.

http://www.tssznews.com/2010/08/27/robert-medina-elaborates-on-his-mushroom-hill-recreation/

Really wish Sega would have a tangible reaction to this beyond just "It looks cool".

 

[Jocchan]

Really wish Sega would have a tangible reaction to this beyond just "It looks cool".

I wouldn't be surprised if they complained about Sonic being too slow, or about the lack of homing attack.

 

[enzo_gt]

I wouldn't be surprised if they complained about Sonic being too slow, or about the lack of homing attack.

Shitty friends, too.

 

[Sciz]

I can't blame Sega's English PR guys for just saying "yeah, it's cool" because that's all they can do. Everyone who makes any real decisions about Sonic is in Japan, and I expect that the video and a summary of the massive response has already been forwarded there by said PR guys. And probably promptly died at Iizuka's feet. If the PR department actually did hear anything of interest back, they certainly don't have the freedom to say so.

 

[loosus]

Looks good, although I have to say that I prefer the New Super Mario Bros. Wii method of 3D graphics in 2D gameplay: not allowing the camera to see the sides of 3D objects as the camera pans left and right.

 

[TreIII]

I can't blame Sega's English PR guys for just saying "yeah, it's cool" because that's all they can do. Everyone who makes any real decisions about Sonic is in Japan, and I expect that the video and a summary of the massive response has already been forwarded there by said PR guys. And probably promptly died at Iizuka's feet.

Sad, but true. Iizuka is basically the main proponent of why Sonic is where he is now-a-days. When he's the same one that gives out so many quality gems, like those that Mama quoted a few days ago....yeah. :lol

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Making games is a team effort. I know people want a single person to shake your finger at and blame, but try to keep in mind that there have been bad Sonic games that Iizuka did not technically work on.

I'm not explicitly defending him or saying that he's a saint or anything, but he's not the only one to blame.

 

[Dandy]

SEGA is bumming right now, that clip was real fire. Goddamn.

 

[Crumpet Trumpet]

I think it looks nasty and has no personality. Not like Sonic 4 is better or anything, though.

This is still good for a one-person job.

 

[Ghost Leviathan]

I really think the 3D games peaked with Sonic Adventure 2. Sega needed a killer app to fight off the PlayStation 2 so Sonic Team [led by Yuji Naka] went into overdrive to produce the best Sonic game they could to follow Adventure 1. I saw this documentary around the same time where Sonic Team had offices full of bunk beds for the team to sleep during development. They were that passionate. The engine [for the Dreamcast in 2001] was incredible. It's not perfect but the Sonic/Shadow levels are the best Sonic has been in 3D. This was the last time it felt like Sonic Team still had talent and gave a damn.

The issue is that when Izuka took over he chose to redefine Sonic yet again with Unleashed changing the gameplay completely to the point where you don't feel in control of Sonic at all. The game is almost automatic. The levels are visually spectacular but the evolution of the gameplay went in the wrong direction IMO.

The only title that has been any good this entire generation is Sonic and the Secret Rings. Even with Sonic running constantly the control was still there and the level designs were surreal and fantastic.

The level where you ran in the sky [Levitated Ruin] was the last time I saw any magic in a Sonic game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCMr7Ce5urY

It is a shame how Sonic turned out. Sonic 2006 could have been good as a spiritual Sonic Adventure 3 with another year of development but Sega rushed out an incomplete product. It's not like the 90s where you can just cut the game in half [like Sonic 3]. You rush out a sophisticated HD game and it's going to suck.

I have a little hope for that 20th anniversary project next year but to be honest Sonic Team without Yuji Naka and out of the hardware race creates a team that just doesn't seem to care anymore.

 

[Ghost Leviathan]

I'm sorry but how is this magical? Though it did look cool, it doesn't seem like it offers much from a level design perspective.

Did you play the level or just watch the video? The awesomeness is evident from playing it in the game [the way the level holds you back with the wind at the start then lets you loose at a hundred miles an hour in the sky]. The idea was brilliant.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Secret Rings (and by extension, Black Knight) would have been so much better if it wasn't on-rails. I don't know why they never tried making another game like SA2, it was clearly the most popular 3D game.

 

[Naked Snake]

Doesn't look more impressive technically than Little Big Planet to me. So I don't see why it wouldn't be doable.

 

[goldenpp72]

Secret Rings (and by extension, Black Knight) would have been so much better if it wasn't on-rails. I don't know why they never tried making another game like SA2, it was clearly the most popular 3D game.

They did, sonic heroes was 'sa3' and shadow the hedgehog was 'sa4' and then sonic 2006 was 'sa5' basically.

The problem is, the series continued to get worse and worse, where as the sonic portions of SA2 (and shadow) were more or less what people wanted from the series, the treasure hunter areas were made less fun than they were in SA1 due to not being able to find the gems in any order, and far too large of levels in the latter parts, followed by 1/3 of the game being composed of lame shooting.

The problem is that sega not only doesn't 'get' what people would have liked to see in the SA series, the quality in general has been on a downward slide since SA2. Personally, while the SA2 gameplay isn't like the genesis titles, I found them very fun, if they made a sonic adventure title that played like a refined SA2 with the sonic/shadow levels, threw in treasure hunting that is much faster and shorter (ala sa1) with the polish of 2, and then maybe throw in tails as a novelty 'race with sonic' like in sa1 if they need fluff.

Of course, chao returning would be nice, and remove the stupid 'you fight god' plot point, wrap it up using the sonic unleashed graphics and you'd have a 9 rated sonic title.

 

[WillyFive]

Did you play the level or just watch the video? The awesomeness is evident from playing it in the game [the way the level holds you back with the wind at the start then lets you loose at a hundred miles an hour in the sky]. The idea was brilliant.

Yeah, the Sonic/Shadow stages in SA2 were perfection.

 

[Sciz]

Making games is a team effort. I know people want a single person to shake your finger at and blame, but try to keep in mind that there have been bad Sonic games that Iizuka did not technically work on.

I'm not explicitly defending him or saying that he's a saint or anything, but he's not the only one to blame.

And I don't blame him entirely; executive meddling has caused more than enough problems over the years, and certainly not all of the creative and technical staff are geniuses. But you can trace a disproportionate amount of the series past and current woes to his designs and leadership.

I really think the 3D games peaked with Sonic Adventure 2. Sega needed a killer app to fight off the PlayStation 2 so Sonic Team [led by Yuji Naka] went into overdrive to produce the best Sonic game they could to follow Adventure 1. I saw this documentary around the same time where Sonic Team had offices full of bunk beds for the team to sleep during development. They were that passionate. The engine [for the Dreamcast in 2001] was incredible. It's not perfect but the Sonic/Shadow levels are the best Sonic has been in 3D. This was the last time it felt like Sonic Team still had talent and gave a damn.

SA2 (and Heroes, and Shadow) was developed by Sonic Team USA, which was led by Iizuka. Sorry.

The issue is that when Izuka took over he chose to redefine Sonic yet again with Unleashed changing the gameplay completely to the point where you don't feel in control of Sonic at all. The game is almost automatic. The levels are visually spectacular but the evolution of the gameplay went in the wrong direction IMO.

And he had very little to do with Unleashed; his contributions merited only a couple Special Thanks credits.

 

[Ghost Leviathan]

SA2 (and Heroes, and Shadow) was developed by Sonic Team USA, which was led by Iizuka. Sorry.

So? The point was that Sonic Adventure 2 was the peak of the series; and that Sonic Team was in a different frame of mind back then. It matters little whether he was involved or not.

 

[TreIII]

Making games is a team effort. I know people want a single person to shake your finger at and blame, but try to keep in mind that there have been bad Sonic games that Iizuka did not technically work on.

I'm not explicitly defending him or saying that he's a saint or anything, but he's not the only one to blame.

That may be true, but keep in mind, video game producers (or at least, certainly Japanese ones) have a lot of say in what goes into such a product. In other words, they often are the ones who end up being the boss of the "game" itself, even more than the actual director.

So even if we were to exonerate him from the cases of games where he did not work, there's still the thing that a lot of what goes on in the series currently, can be traced back to Iizuka's ideology. The :lol-inducing things, like choice quotes about the supposed break down between 2D and 3D fans? That kind of thing showcases the kind of direction the series is under now, and everybody else (Dimps, rest of development team, etc.) is just being dragged along for the ride.

It's the same thing that can be traced in a lot of other video game series, as well. For example, don't necessarily like the direction MvC3 is undergoing? Look to Ryota Niitsuma, the respective producer in that case. His overall design philosophies, such as "hating complex control schemes", ended up dictating the overall direction for TvC, which then rolled over to MvC3 later. All of which occurred, again, due to the producer whose thoughts and opinions became the fundamental crux driving the series.

So, I don't believe in giving slack to guys like IGA, Iizuka and etc. They wanted to be the "faces" driving the series? Well, they can take the good and the bad that comes from such. :lol

 

[Sciz]

So? The point was that Sonic Adventure 2 was the peak of the series; and that Sonic Team was in a different frame of mind back then. It matters little whether he was involved or not.

Yes, it does matter who was involved with what, particularly when you praise one work and go on to damn the man in charge by blaming him for something he had nothing to do with. Factual inaccuracies don't help anyone.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Sonic Adventure 2 was the peak of the series

 

[Ghost Leviathan]

Yes, it does matter who was involved with what, particularly when you praise one work and go on to damn the man in charge by blaming him for something he had nothing to do with. Factual inaccuracies don't help anyone.

Well, you sure showed me.

Overused image from a lame show.

In the UK there's a toilet paper named after you.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

http://ui23.gamefaqs.com/566/gfs_40476_2_8.jpg[IMG]

Well, you sure showed me.



In the UK there's a toilet paper named after you.[/QUOTE]

I always thought Andrex was an underdeveloped anal gland in cats.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

In the UK there's a toilet paper named after you.

I absolutely hate (new) Family Guy but that image most accurately summed up what I could not, in so many words.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I absolutely hate (new) Family Guy but that image most accurately summed up what I could not, in so many words.

I still like you and agree with you.