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Sonic Adventure 1 & 2

Sonic Adventure 1's problems: camera, some of the Knuckles missions, and all of the Big missions.

Sonic Adventure 2's problems: camera, and every level not belonging to a hedgehog.

SA2 did have that cool secret Green Hill Zone level though.
 
City Escape
Radical Highway
White Jungle
Green Forest

These four levels are the epitome of Sonic in 3D and the gold standard to go by for future 3D Sonic games. A Sonic game with a whole bunch of levels of similar quality (without extra stupid retard bullshit) would easily be a AAA game.

Sadly, this will never happen because Sega is retarded.
 
I never understood why Sega couldn't just make a game with 30+ SA2-style Sonic levels. It would be one of the best 3d platformers ever, and it's so damned obvious.
 
I have over 200 hours on my SA2:B file, no lie. I managed to miss the Dreamcast, so the GCN incarnations of these games were my first in-depth experiences with the games. And they were my grand reawakening to the world of Sonic. You see, Sonic 2 was the first video game I ever played (I was a huge bookworm during my younger years, and thus missed the 8-bit generation). Bought up Sonic 1, 3, and Knuckles, rented 3D Blast, became horribly disillusioned with Sega after I saw the Saturn die in record time, and then went Nintendo and never looked back.

But then, of course, a decade or so later, I did look back. Anyways, my opinions...Sonic Adventure was horrible. What a crappy game. Erratic camera, jumpy controls, and glitches out the wazoo. Even later on in the game, Sonic's levels were nothing more than "hold forward for 30 seconds, jump, repeat". Some of the other characters were fairly fun, but the utterly pointless overworld hub was poorly implemented and largely empty. That being said, it did have a few redeeming features, such as it's cheesy but very enjoyable story and music. God, I love Sonic music, 2D and 3D alike.

Sonic Adventure 2, however, was almost perfect, to me. Great (and still delightfully cheesy) storyline, a less broken-to-all-hell treasure hunting system, and grinding. A simple addition, but it added so much creativity to the level design. I loved the hell out of Final Rush, and found pretty much everything there is to find in that level. Plus, it introduced Shadow and Rouge, two awesome characters. Admittedly, Shadow's awesomeness was tempered somewhat when they brought him back and devoted the next two or three games filling out his backstory. But Rouge is still great. Secret agent treasure hunting bat of kickassedness.

I'll probably rant a lot more later, but this post is long enough as is.
 
Man, I remember the day I got PSO. I bought it, and did nothing but play the Sonic Adventure 2 demo for two hours.

I finally cracked open PSO after that and loved it, but those two hours were fucking awesome.
 
Green Shinobi said:
Some of the Knuckles/Rogue levels in Sonic Adventure 2 literally gave me migraines. I hate scavenger hunts. Why couldn't Sega have just made action-based stages using the flying characters?

SA2 had some pretty epic boss fights though. This one in particular:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtcGddc_JLI

I still fucking love how the music syncs up to the boss fight. More games should have this; I can't see why they don't.

Edit: Looks like I've been had by nostalgia. I remember the first 20 seconds or so matching up in a particular way, but watching the guy play now (then again, we play slightly differently), the music doesn't match in all the ways I remember.

It still has it's most dramatic moments when you're either dodging or attacking him, which is what lead to this memory in the first place.
 
My biggest contribution to gaming is probably the utterly massive Sonic Adventure FAQ I wrote back in 1999. I think it's the biggest, most comprehensive guide to the game available. It's still hosted at GameFAQs if you want to download it:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/dreamcast/file/198694/2654

Someone once wrote me to tell me that some company in Europe had taken my FAQ and turned it into a strategy guide book for sale without my permission. I didn't care, though. :lol

I actually imported my Dreamcast and a copy of Sonic Adventure the day after it was released in Japan. I wrote the FAQ using the import version (even though I didn't know any Japanese). I later went back and revised the FAQ for the US version. If you want to see how big a fan I am of that game, just look at the FAQ. I literally waisted years making it.
 
I loved Sonic Adventure. It was a great launch title and it really wowed me on Christmas morning '99. The camera was glitchy, but I managed to overlook it and it didn't ruin the game for me. I never had any glitches and I don't know what you guys are referring to.

Sonic Adventure 2...well, I never beat it. Those treasure hunting stages were insufferable. I can't recall another game that managed to piss me off. They were a bad idea in Sonic Adventure 1, but they were easier and I really only had to do it with Knuckles. It's a shame, because Sonic Adventure 2 didn't allow you to progress with other characters until you beat certain parts of the game. I probably had half of the game remaining when I quit, probably more. I still think it's a piece of shit.
 
Sega1991 said:
Which soundtrack? The limited english OST or the two-disc Japanese OST? Because it's on the Japanese OST.

"For True Story: Sonic vs. Shadow" is its track name.
That's the one.

Can't be too mad, though, since they at least included Metal Harbor and White Jungle. :D

Man, 2001 should've been the worst year ever, since I was grounded for the majority of it and barred from playing video games except on a few occasions. But somehow, I found solace in become a gigantic Sonic fanboy again, and really got into spriting and fangame community, not to mention spent almost all my time on the internet reading Green Hill Zone and Secrets of Sonic Team ('sup Rlan? <3). It makes me so sad to hear people call Sonic fans 13-year-old furries, since I was part of the awesome, non-furry Sonic fan communities (except I actually was 13). :(
 
Sonic Adventure is still great. Unpolished, but it does so much right that it hardly matters.

Sonic Adventure 2...eh. Sonic Team USA never quite had the development skill of their Japanese counterpart, and it shows in every game they've made.

What this thread is telling me is that I should finish up that Sonic music appreciation topic I started a while back.
 
OMG a thread where we can share Sonic love in gaf, my dream has come true!!! :D

I love SA1 and 2, as with most SA was my first DC game and it blew me away. After so many years of waiting for a true sequel to Sonic we finally got it. The graphics were crazy at the time, I though the game was excellent. The adventure parts were handled well, Sonic and Tails stages were great. Sure Big was a pain but it was unique. The final battle was so epic, there is no way you couldn't get hyped up for it. My friend won the Sega tournament they had for SA, $15,000 for playing SA. The way he plays some of the stages in that game is insane.

SA2 I think was even better. It did away with the adventuring so it was a lot more action. Yes I know it was a pain to constantly switch from Sonic to Knuckles and Tails but at least it was all action. The Sonic/Shadow levels were brilliant. I spent so many hours figuring out how to get all the max points, when you get that perfect run there is nothing like it. Also this game had the best unlockable of any game, Green Hill Zone.
 
I love how Sonic Team basically spoil the last boss in the opening cinematic of SA1 and I never noticed it until I played it again recently.

SA1/2 were for all their niggling little flaws, solid games.
 
I don't understand why they didn't make the later 3D Sonics just like these two. Some critics of Sonic say that he was never able to make the jump to 3D properly, but he did, and he did it spectacularly. Its just that Sega has shit on the franchise ever since.
 
I actually quite liked the mech segments in SA2. They were a good blend of shooting and platforming...

The treasure-hunts were probably the low-point, but seriously, until the final few locations, they were mediocre levels at worst. The enormous map sizes in the final few levels really hurt their flow, but the first couple were still good.
 
The Crimson Blur said:
I don't understand why they didn't make the later 3D Sonics just like these two. Some critics of Sonic say that he was never able to make the jump to 3D properly, but he did, and he did it spectacularly. Its just that Sega has shit on the franchise ever since.

I really hate when they do that.

I was looking at previews of Sonic Adventure from 1998/1999 on the major sites (IGN, GameSpot, etc.) a few months ago and I couldn't find anyone who didn't like it.

Game critics are like the news. They want it to be colder during summer and hotter during winter.
 
If they took Sonic's levels (minus Crazy Gadget) from SA2, and a few of Shadows, and made a whole game of it, it would probably be the best Sonic game ever made.

Instead someone gets a bunch of horrible ideas they think are great, and basically center the entire game around them, basically begging the player "PLEASE LIKE ME"

Sonic 360/PS3 is an attempt to get back to form, but it's just an entire failure at it that one wonders if they lost the code for the Dreamcast version.


It's like what happened to Starfox. An extraordinarily great game.. followed by games that are taken in an entirely new (and terrible) direction, and then a failed attempt to return to form (command)
 
IMO, Adventure had the best gameplay of the two, and Adventure 2 had the better story. Still, Adventure 2 did greatly improve on the Chao system, but I think Adventure is the best, simply for it being the first 'proper' 3D Sonic game :D
 
Adventure 1 was great. Adventure 2 was freaking DIRE.

I honestly don't know how they fucked 2 up so spectacularly :(

Downward spiral ever since.

1 was still not as good a Sonic game as it could have been, but pretty damn good none the less.
 
You people should be ashamed of yourselves for liking such terrible games.

And for the people wondering why they didn't release a game of all 3D Sonic levels, they did. It was called Sonic Heroes. And it turned out just as terrible as the Sonic levels in SA and SA2.
 
SA1 had the best Tails gameplay ever. His quest was awesome, I loved how you had to find new flight routes and shortcuts through the stages to beat Sonic, Eggman, etc to the end goal. And he was damn fast.

Unfortunately, after this Tails got turned into some wack shooter guy clone of Gamma, taking away from the essence of the character--to be Sonic's sidekick who can outspeed him by exploiting his flight ability.
 
Sonic Adventure 1 is how Sonic should be done in 3D.

Freakin masterpiece in my opinion, beautiful music too


I'd pay money for a next-gen remake.
 
I own both games, and I have been playing Sonic games since the original in Genesis.

The biggest problem with SA2 is that the game forces you to play with the other characters, breaking the pace of the game. Nothing worse than having a blast in a Sonic/Shadow level and then 5 sec later stuck in a slow than hell mech-based Tails level or Treasure hunt Knuckles level. I actually enjoyed the treasure hunts, but in this respect SA1 was much better because the other characters stories are optional to the game (at least for the normal ending) and you can finish a game comprised only of Sonic levels. I would like to do that in SA2, leaving a different (and more paced) experience later on with the other characters. Nothing worse that this speed-slow-speed-slow...

And who tought that Tails in a meka is a good idea....
 
EvilMario said:
This. In fact, I still have them and boot the game up from time to time.

I envy you. I loved raising my Chao, but I can never go back to them. My Chao memory card data got corrupted somewhere along the line. :(
 
sonic adventure 1 is by far the best jump'n'run in my opinion and the intro still kicks ass. Naka at it's best.

3dfx_Voodoo_Banshee_2004-Sonic_Adventure.jpg
 
nincompoop said:
You people should be ashamed of yourselves for liking such terrible games.

And for the people wondering why they didn't release a game of all 3D Sonic levels, they did. It was called Sonic Heroes. And it turned out just as terrible as the Sonic levels in SA and SA2.


The reasons Sonic Heroes were terrible have absolutely nothing to do with SA2
- Your two friends made the game control like instead of arms you had two flubber balls on the end of lamposts.
- The physics in generally was spongy. Everything felt really random as to whether a given attempted maneuver worked or didn't.
- 90% of the gameplay was just "STOP.. SWITCH.. USE RIGHT ABILITY" instead of, like, actually playing.


SA2 had much tighter sonic controls than SA1, I found.. and much, MUCH better levels, but that's just personal preference.
 
I put more hours into Sonic Adventure for the Dreamcast than I'm willing to admit (fine, over 200). Between all the collectathons and the Chaos, I had so much to do I couldn't stop. It was such a great game for it's time, really a gem.
 
Plus the levels were extrordinarily long, the beginning of the end with "Multiple hit enemies", ruining the grind system from SA2 and Graphics somehow worse than SA2.
 
SA2:B is awesome, one of my favorite gamecube games. The Sonic Jungle stage is my favorite I think. The shooting parts didn't bother me but the treasure hunts did. SEGA never improved though, Sonic Heroes was a step back compared to SA2:B, and it all went downhill from there. The Rush games and Secret Rings are also great though. Secret Rings had some flaws(mainly the level-up system and missions) but when you got Sonic maxed out it was a pretty awesome game. Sonic 2006 was a rushed piece of shit and I want SEGA to take their time with a new Sonic title. All SA2, and SA needed was a bit of polish, Heroes, Shadow and 2006 just sucked.

Should I buy Sonic Adventure 1 for Wii/Gamecube, I read that the game had some bad framerate issues in a review once.
 
Rlan said:
Plus the levels were extrordinarily long, the beginning of the end with "Multiple hit enemies", ruining the grind system from SA2 and Graphics somehow worse than SA2.

The multiple-hit enemies didn't bother me as much as how randomly multiple-hit they are... I'd hit one, and it'd die in one-two hits, then another i'd bounce on it twice, take it down to 1/3, then bounce on it four or five more times and have it do absolutely nothing.

As for the graphics, it's somewhat understandable if you consider that SA2 wasn't designed for the PS2, and they probably didn't know the tricks to get the higher texture resolutions on the PS2 (as it is harder to get SA2-quality textures on the PS2 then it was on the GC and DC)
 
Sonic Adventure 2's controls blew 1's away. No discussion. Most of the time in 1, the game expected you to be following a specific path, and if you tried to deviate from it, you'd glitch through a wall, or come to a complete stop while the camera freaked out. I wish I had my old Final Rush video of insanity...I'd love to post it.
 
Sonic Adventure was my poor introduction to the DC. I didn't particularly care for it and hated the camera. It wasn't a bad game, though. SA2 I hated, though I did find the level scoring system to be perfect. Out of all the characters in SA2, only 2 were any fun to play (Sonic/Shadow?) jeeze...I can't even remember who sonic's mirror character was (there was also tails/robotnik (horrible) and knuckles/???? (terrible))
 
webrunner said:
Sonic 360/PS3 is an attempt to get back to form, but it's just an entire failure at it that one wonders if they lost the code for the Dreamcast version.

It's like what happened to Starfox. An extraordinarily great game.. followed by games that are taken in an entirely new (and terrible) direction, and then a failed attempt to return to form (command)
Basically. I'm really sad to see both the franchises flopping around, although it's more understandable with StarFox than with Sonic. At least with StarFox, you couldn't shamelessly copy the old games and make only minor iterations to have a good modern game. With Sonic, you could totally just take the format of the Sonic Adventures and iterate on it...

Of course, I got the impression that's what they were trying to do with Sonic 360. I was mystified as to why it was a god-awful failure until someone told me that the game was developed in a single year. Yeah. I bet they could have fixed the camera and controls if they only had another 6 months. Camera and controls were really the only important problems with the game, but for a platformer? Camera and controls are everything.
 
Rlan said:
Plus the levels were extrordinarily long, the beginning of the end with "Multiple hit enemies", ruining the grind system from SA2 and Graphics somehow worse than SA2.
SA and SA2 don't look nearly as good as SH graphically, are you joking? Their polygon counts are more along the lines of PSX-era games than PS2-era games, and some of their effects (the bullets that enemy robots fire at you) are downright embarassing.
Every 3D Sonic game is characterized by the same unwieldy control scheme, broken camera, terrible combat mechanics and dull level design, along with tons of glitches and a general lack of polish. Trying to argue which is least offensive in any of these areas is kind of pointless.
 
Knuckles treasure hunting in SA1 wasn't that bad, either. Thinking about it, despite the setting, it still had that...Genesis Sonic soul to it. I can't really explain it, but all I know is that it disappeared in SA2 and never reappeared (Not saying that there wasn't another good Sonic game, but they just didn't have that 'soul').

Hmm...
 
nincompoop said:
Every 3D Sonic game is characterized by the same unwieldy control scheme, broken camera, terrible combat mechanics and dull level design, along with tons of glitches and a general lack of polish. Trying to argue which is least offensive in any of these areas is kind of pointless.
This is generally the stance I take on the matter. While I didn't think SA was a horrible game, I wouldn't want to play it again.
 
nincompoop said:
Every 3D Sonic game is characterized by the same unwieldy control scheme, broken camera, terrible combat mechanics and dull level design, along with tons of glitches and a general lack of polish. Trying to argue which is least offensive in any of these areas is kind of pointless.

I do agree with this, though. I played SA again recently, and it has this really grimy, messy, 'debug mode' kind of feel.
 
webrunner said:
The multiple-hit enemies didn't bother me as much as how randomly multiple-hit they are... I'd hit one, and it'd die in one-two hits, then another i'd bounce on it twice, take it down to 1/3, then bounce on it four or five more times and have it do absolutely nothing.

That was due to the interesting, but ultimately flawed, "level up" system combined with the wonky homing attack. The way it worked is when you homing attacked, if your partners were close enough, they'd follow in your trail, and thus you'd deal damage each time one of them hit. The issue being, of course,t hat sometimes your partners would not be close enough, and then it would just be Sonic, ramming his head against the enemy repeatedly...combine that with the fact that the leveling of your characters adds to the damage they deal, and you can easily take down a 5HP enemy in one homing attack, and then have to spam the attack button for what seems like ten seconds to take down his friend of the same type.

Sonic Heroes did have a lot going for it, though. Some great level design (BINGO Highway, Bullet Station, Lost Jungle, Hang Castle, and the epic Final Fortress), combined with another quality soundtrack, helped a lot. I enjoyed it far more than SA1, most definitely. It also managed to have the only Amy theme that didn't make me ears bleed upon hearing it.
 
Scribble said:
Knuckles treasure hunting in SA1 wasn't that bad, either.
Truth. Sega at least had the good sense to give us the ability to search for multiple emeralds instead of BLOCKING THE FUCKING RADAR SO THAT YOU COULD ONLY SEARCH FOR ONE AT A TIME.

They weren't great, but fuck me if they weren't better than the tripe they gave us in Sonic Adventure 2.
 
I still love SA1, though I wish they'd fixed that damn camera. :lol

Sky Deck:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdJ3arrCA6k

The on-top of the ship part of the level with 100 turrets gunning at you (2:45) is one of my favorite bits of 3D level design ever. Wide open with all sorts of stuff going on, pure chaos.

(never cared much for the grinding in SA2, but it was sure better than the pain that's followed)
 
nincompoop said:
...along with tons of glitches and a general lack of polish.
Very much so. I really liked that about the game. It was unique and entertaining to explore the game mechanics, mainly because the glitches were never of the annoying sort. Most of the time, they were pretty cool to find.

The camera work was sometimes annoying, but that really wasn't a glitch.
 
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