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Sonic Adventure 1 & 2

Rouge isn't shitty. >=(

That being said, I agree with most of what you said. Way too much misuse of characters going on. There's so much COOL STUFF you could do. Abusing Chaos Control in Heroes & Shadow was one of my favorite things to do, because there's a ton of neat things you could do with it in effect. A puzzle-oriented game with Shadow & Silver (if they MUST keep him around grumble grumble...) could be all kinds of win. I may be the only one, but I'd kill for an awesome Rouge the bat spinoff that plays like a 007 game (specifically, Everything or Nothing).
 
This is how you save the Sonic franchise:

1) Throw out every character that did not exist until after 1999.
2) Let the healing begin.
 
RocketDarkness said:
Rouge isn't shitty. >=(

That being said, I agree with most of what you said. Way too much misuse of characters going on. There's so much COOL STUFF you could do. Abusing Chaos Control in Heroes & Shadow was one of my favorite things to do, because there's a ton of neat things you could do with it in effect. A puzzle-oriented game with Shadow & Silver (if they MUST keep him around grumble grumble...) could be all kinds of win. I may be the only one, but I'd kill for an awesome Rouge the bat spinoff that plays like a 007 game (specifically, Everything or Nothing).
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She's a fucking Knuckles clone with tits.

Give her something interesting and original and colour me interested. 'Til then, fuck her, and fuck pretty much everyone introduced post-SA1, as most all of them were conceived as clones. Rouge was a Knuckles clone, Shadow a Sonic clone (though by giving him weapons they've started to differentiate him from Sonic, and I think he's fairly interesting as an anti-hero character as Wario is, admittedly Wario is a comic relief anti-hero while Shadow is a serious one.

Heroes just made hte clone situation worse, and by Sonic 2K6 it'd stuck.

She's a bat and there's so much interesting stuff you could do with her, but unfortunately they've just made her a clone of Knuckles, and given a choice between playing as her or Knuckles, the Sonic series' 'token black badass,' I'll choose Knuckles every time.

It's totally sick that they ditched Mighty (from Chaotix) because he was a Sonic clone and then created so many more. I loved Mighty when I was a kid. :(

I think the people calling for all the characters to be ditched are being unrealistic, as I know plenty of kids who are Sonic fans and they love the characters, Shadow and Silver in particular have both been hugely popular, and some of the oldies they've bought back (Espio in particular) have become really popular. They just need to tone it down and use a select few as opposed to all of them at once.

Like I said, Mario Galaxy just has Mario, Bowser, Bowser Jr, Peach, Luigi, recognisable enemies and a handful of new characters. A Sonic game with Sonic/Tails/Knuckles/Amy/Robotnik would be a great idea. At the same time, Wario has his games, and so does Yoshi, Peach and even DK who is technically from the same universe.

This shit would work. I understand why they do clones - it just wouldn't be economical to build an engine with a million different gameplay modes - the answer then is to make more than one damn game.
 
PepsimanVsJoe said:
*shrug*

Personally I think Sonic should stick to 2D games while Shadow becomes the face for 3D ventures.
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This is me:
Loaded_temporary_image_(o)_large.jpg

Multiple reasons:
1) Sonic games can be done right in 3D, they just aren't. And if the only 2D Sonics we're going to get are Dimps games, then fuck that.
2) Shadow needs to be deleted from history.
 
True, she was designed as a Knuckles counterpart, but then she ended up as a Tails counterpart in Heroes. I haven't played '06 yet ($5 or bust!), but I know she was playable there, in some capacity. So, being one of those Sonic dorks that fairly enjoys the stories of the games, most of my love for her character is based on what has been done, and what can be done. We know she's a spy that works for the government, as well as a self-proclaimed treasure hunter. Hence, my mind portrays her character as a mix of James Bond and FFVI's Locke: someone that's dedicated to their missions, but gives themselves tons of leeway in how they accomplish it. Some of the random dialog you can get in Heroes when you wait around as Team Dark is fairly interesting in that regard (like Rouge communicating with the government agency she works for), though generally overlooked.

That being said, they do need to work towards differentiating her from Knuckles & Tails when they choose to make her a playable character. As you've pointed out with Mighty and the rest of the Chaotix, ST is great at making interesting characters and then ignoring their potential.
 
I like the Sonic Adventure games, but I'm still waiting for a full 3D Sonic game where they just make a bunch of levels like the Sonic stages from those and polish them up. I'm pretty sure I'll be waiting a long while, though.

Also, Shadow should've stayed dead after SA2.
 
Himuro said:
Shenmue 1 and 2 are god awful, and even when I originally played the shenmue demo at gamestop I wasn't impressed. Horrible controls, occasionally press left or right "platforming", absolutely GOD AWFUL level design and SHIT GAME HUB, shenmue and his shitty friends...I just never understood the love. Also: why the fuck is shenmue interacting with humans?

I hate shenmue.
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I feel you too dude
 
SA1 >>>>> 2 , I could atleast finish the first game despite it's many many flaws. The second one I gave up on because the bugs were so bad in some levels that you'd basically disappear off the stage entirely and then a minute later die. Sure the original sonic 2 had bugs like that but they were few and far between and you only had a 2d plane to worry about. SA2 is basically the design document for how NOT to make a 3d platformer. The first stage with sonic was decent I'll give it that but it went downhill drastically pretty fast.

I too agree that sonic could be done in 3d quite well. There are elements in both sonic adventure games and even in sonic heroes which worked , they simply need to find a competent group of programmers to make the gameplay NOT broken this time.
 
I have fond memories of Sonic Adventure. I have yet to experience a rush in a 3D game like I did in the Windy Valley level. The bosses were a lot of fun, too. I was not impressed by the sequel.

Tiduz said:
you actually FLY over the water while playing as him, against perfect chaos
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And it was more than worth having to play as Big the cat.
 
SA2B- Green Forest is my favorite level, and what I think is the best example of Sonic done right in 3D so far. The music was awesome and the stage was made for speed. Especially for 2 player battles in the GCN version, I thought Green Forest was a blast to play/compete on.
 
I didn't like the direction in which the SA games took the Sonic series at all, but I have to admit that SA2 surprised me. It's an extremely solid title (I only played a demo of the original). There's loads to unlock through speed runs, the levels are well-designed (the Sonic/Shadow levels are the best, of course), and even parts of the embarrassing soundtrack grow on you after a while.

I should pick up the original sometime. Is DX a good port or not?
 
MiamiWesker said:
The one thing Heroes probably did right was the casino stage, that level was amazing.
Click to expand...

Not really. The controls were embarrassing. Worst pinball controls in the history of any game ever. Never have I fought with the controls in a game so much. BINGO Highway can die in a fire.
 
She's a Knuckles clone again in 2K6.

Well... she's actually both. In 2K6 Tails throws "bombs", and can Fly. Knuckles punches, glides and climbs.

She can Glide and climb.. and use ring bombs. Just absolute bullshit.

RocketDarkness said:
True, she was designed as a Knuckles counterpart, but then she ended up as a Tails counterpart in Heroes. I haven't played '06 yet ($5 or bust!), but I know she was playable there, in some capacity. So, being one of those Sonic dorks that fairly enjoys the stories of the games, most of my love for her character is based on what has been done, and what can be done. We know she's a spy that works for the government, as well as a self-proclaimed treasure hunter. Hence, my mind portrays her character as a mix of James Bond and FFVI's Locke: someone that's dedicated to their missions, but gives themselves tons of leeway in how they accomplish it. Some of the random dialog you can get in Heroes when you wait around as Team Dark is fairly interesting in that regard (like Rouge communicating with the government agency she works for), though generally overlooked.

That being said, they do need to work towards differentiating her from Knuckles & Tails when they choose to make her a playable character. As you've pointed out with Mighty and the rest of the Chaotix, ST is great at making interesting characters and then ignoring their potential.
Click to expand...
 
Played the hell out of the 2 player race in green forest in SA2 on DC.
one time till 4am and we wondered down to the bread factory and scored a fresh uncut loaf free. Great times with both of those games, and I do admit I was pretty gutted at the ending of SA2 with shadow since the story was that good to me.

Just hope they would revive mecha sonic from S&K as he was my favourite designed baddie.
 
Rlan said:
Problem is now that they intend to bring in brand new characters in every single game - and a lot of them completely useless. Cream, Silver, Emerl, The Black Arms, Jet, Wave, Storm, Princess Elise, Mephiles, Shahra the Ring Genie, Eggman Nega (FFS), They're all crap!
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I don't know who any of these characters are and I used to be the biggest Sonic fan ever. I bought the Archie Sonic comics and everything. :(
 
They probably need to abandon 3D Sonic. It is hard as hell to nail controls in 3D and they've yet to do it after trying many times. It's time to hang it up and make a new 2D Sonic that utilizes hardware.

The Mario 1-1 stage in Brawl is sort of what I'm talking about. Imagine a Sonic 2D side scroller with PS3 or 360 hardware.
 
I still wonder why there's so much hate for these 2 games, when on release they received insane critical acclaim.
 
SA1 was awesome, despite it's flaws. Believe it or not I found it a reasonably successful attempt to bring sonic to 3D. More successful than any attempt afterwards.

SA2 failed mostly by abandoning the already reduced number of 2D-esque sequences in SA for even MORE adventure sequences which were the low point of the first game.

The first one will always get a positive spin in nostalgia for me because when it was working, for probably the last time in Sonic Team's history you really believed that they had gotten what made Sonic so great. The great parts were amazing, and the not great parts were still decent.
 
I AM JOHN! said:
This is me:
Loaded_temporary_image_(o)_large.jpg
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Oh shit, it's Max Payne!

Anyway, my take on future SA's...If they're gonna have multiple characters, I think they should make them like Knuckles in S&K in that he plays through the same stages as Sonic, can run around, but also has a special way of movement (gliding) which allows him to go through the level in different ways, find different secret areas and collect treasures. Making separate levels for the different characters was a horrible idea whereas this one would work well
 
Looking back on it, Sonic Adventure 2 was garbage. The Sonic and Shadow levels were good, the rest were mediocre and just awful (Knuckles and Rogue levels anyone)?

There was nothing fun about trying to locate the emeralds, especially when it was timed. The Tails and Robotnik levels were pretty average shooters, not really that exciting or memorable.

The game has really shown it's age. I haven't played the first one so I can't comment on that.
 
Christopher said:
I think people truly do overexadurate the "shitty friends" saying.
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On the contrary, people don't overexadurate the "shitty friends" saying enough.

Sonic's shitty friends (minus Tails and Knuckles) are shitty.
 
Alaluef said:
Aren't both already ported to the GC and playable by backward compatibility?
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Even better... Sonic Team USA can just recompile both isos on a single Wii DVD, throw in "waggle trix" and "WFC Chao Garden" or something and call it a day. Call it "Sonic Adventures", charge $29.99 and boom: instant million seller. :lol
 
APZonerunner said:
If I remember correctly you're an Aussie so it's no surprise you like Marine - I liked Marine too, though.

Silver it seems they want to make a major character. Sonic/Shadow/Silver as it was Sonic/Tails/Knuckles in the old days, with the others supporting. This I can kinda get behind if they just fucking ditch Rogue, E10-whatever he is now, Cream and the others.
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I'd rather them dump Shadow and Silver, and keep with the Sonic, Tails and Knuckles trio. Tails and Knuckles have legacies, Shadow and Silver are obvious attempts to fulfill lame shonen anime archetypes.

I mean one of the reasons nobody ever shouts "Mario & his Shitty Friends" is because really it's very rare you see Mario & Wario together. Or even Mario & Yoshi these days. They all have their own little individual genres within the series, which is one of the keys to the Mario series' success. Sonic should emulate it.
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Yoshi, Wario and Donkey Kong (Although DK isn't really a Mario spinoff) aren't considered shitty friends because they've 'proven themselves' in their own right by being the stars of some of the best games of all time (Yoshi's Island, Yoshi's Island DS, DKC, Jungle Beat, Wario Land series, Wario Ware).

Sonic Team makes the Sonic characters take themselves too seriously, and the only thing that the newer characters have to their name is shitty dialog and storylines that not many people care about. People tend to not mind Blaze because her game was good, whereas Silver is annoying because he's a protagonist of one of the worst Sonic games of all time, and Sonic Team like to flaunt him as if he's staple to the same brilliant franchise that produced the Megadrive classics.
 
You know what bugged me about SA2? That they re-used levels but tried to hide it. Like, it would have exactly the same base level geometry, just with different textures and doodads. If you remember the Rogue and Knuckles treasure hunt levels in the outdoor ruins area (I think Knuckles had to swim?).. they had exactly the same layout.





Incidentally, as much as I like Waluigi, he is often considered a "Shitty Friend"
 
Scribble said:
Yoshi, Wario and Donkey Kong (Although DK isn't really a Mario spinoff) aren't considered shitty friends because they've 'proven themselves' in their own right by being the stars of some of the best games of all time (Yoshi's Island, Yoshi's Island DS, DKC, Jungle Beat, Wario Land series, Wario Ware).

Sonic Team makes the Sonic characters take themselves too seriously, and the only thing that the newer characters have to their name is shitty dialog and storylines that not many people care about. People tend to not mind Blaze because her game was good, whereas Silver is annoying because he's a protagonist of one of the worst Sonic games of all time, and Sonic Team like to flaunt him as if he's staple to the same brilliant franchise that produced the Megadrive classics.
Click to expand...

It's a bit off topic, but on the subject of minor characters having successful spin-offs, not enough people give Tails Adventures on the Game Gear enough credit. When the Sonic game collections were coming out so often I saw a lot of people write the game off as one of "the bad ones" but I'm convinced they never played it. It's a very good Metroid-esque game starring Tails. One of the first Game Gear games I ever bought, and I did not regret it in the slightest.
 
Night_Trekker said:
I should pick up the original sometime. Is DX a good port or not?
Click to expand...
BAD PORT.

Sonic DX on GameCube suffers from an inconsistent framerate that really hurts the gameplay. Whereas the Dreamcast original was steady even during super fast sequences (with rare exceptions), DX will jump all over the place to the point where the screen will hitch and Sonic will even "teleport" and skip frames at times. Textures also don't look as crisp on DX.

Really inexcusable since SA2: Battle showed that a port of the Dreamcast game engine could be done flawlessly on GameCube... And it was done before DX!

The only way to play Sonic Adventure in all its glory is still on a DC.
 
SA1 blew me away back then. The jump from PS1/N64 games was just insane. Next-gen so far has utterly failed to wow me like this.

SA2 is okay, forcing you to play as other characters was just stupid.
 
jett said:
SA1 blew me away back then. The jump from PS1/N64 games was just insane. Next-gen so far has utterly failed to wow me like this.
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Me too. I remember marveling at the grass textures at the Hollywood Video demo kiosk.
 
Loved both of them, especially Sonic Adventure 2 (mostly for the Sonic and Shadow stages). And it was all downhill from there, but I never quite understood why people hate them so much.

Sonic Heroes was so disappointing. And pretty much everything since (though I haven't played the Wii version).
 
LaneDS said:
Loved both of them, especially Sonic Adventure 2 (mostly for the Sonic and Shadow stages). And it was all downhill from there, but I never quite understood why people hate them so much.
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1. Big.
2. Tornado/eggman mechs.
3. Emerald hunting.
 
I contend that most of the recent Sonic games become 90% better once you beat the game and have access to the stage select just so you can play your favorite bits and subtract the stuff you hate.
 
_dementia said:
Tell me more...

I have a special hatred for the Dimps games
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Though I don't like Advance 2 and especially hate Advance 3 - I LOVE LOVE Sonic Rush and Sonic Rush Adventure.
 
Eiji said:
That honour goes to Soul Edge.
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So true, I keep it on my mp3 player.


Oh man, oh man, this brings me back. SA1 was awesome, it's levels memorable, Big the Cat hatefull. I liked how the levels are connected to this open world. And the music was great, I loved the theme for the open world, though I can't remember if it was one song or more, since there were different parts of it. Never mind, while searching for themesongs, I found my answer.

SA2 was amazing aswell, leveldesign was great, loved the forest level for Sonic and Shadow and most of it's music. Man, I feel itchy to play some, maybe I will tomorrow.

Some of my favorite themes;

Pumpkin Hill
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xYCNQVIA-xg&feature=related

White Jungle
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0XVYtkvpt2Q&feature=related

Green Forest
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7ZX96Nb3IgE&feature=related

Mystic Ruins
http://youtube.com/watch?v=S1i8MEHcX0Q
 
I'm seriously shocked to see all the sudden Sonic Adventure love.

I'll admit - I actually really like the original Sonic Adventure. Part 2 is HORRIBLE though.

I may get shot for saying so, but I felt that Sonic R was actually the closest 3D Sonic has ever gotten to being done 'right'.
 
SA1 = meh

SA2 = awesomeness

Hated the emerald shard collecting, but the speed parts were great. Actually, SA2 is pretty much the only modern Sonic game that isn't boring. And that includes Rush. The 2nd to last boss is crazy hard, partly because of that crazy camera and the fact that the preceding level was hard as well.

Some parts of SA1 were cool though, but I liked the more linear style of SA2 because it felt more natural than the exploration of SA1.
 
jeremy1456 said:
I'm seriously shocked to see all the sudden Sonic Adventure love.

I'll admit - I actually really like the original Sonic Adventure. Part 2 is HORRIBLE though.

I may get shot for saying so, but I felt that Sonic R was actually the closest 3D Sonic has ever gotten to being done 'right'.
Click to expand...

I don't understand how you can like the first and hate the second.

Oh... you like Sonic R. It all makes sense now.
 
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